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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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Default High End Audio Again

After suffering criticism from all corners of the industry, audio pioneer
Peter Belt has released a product that could bring the industry to its
knees. We have had fancy cables, green pens, and room treatments - now brace
yourself for the final solution: Mr. Belt has succeeded in bottling concert
hall air and making it last for an entire LP. You just open the top and let
the air mingle with your own. The canisters sell for just $499, and can be
saved on the shelf until the next playing for at least two weeks! Save it
until the next time you need to put on a demo to impress your friends. A
12-pack can be had for a discounted rate of $4999 plus shipping.

A demonstration in New York City to a group of high end dealers and writers
proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one "golden eared"
reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The air became suddenly faster,
more palpable, and there was more 'there' there."

There there.

Gary Eickmeier


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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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A demonstration in New York City to a group of high-end dealers
and writers proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one
"golden eared" reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The
air became suddenly faster, more palpable, and there was more
'there' there."


That means the air couldn't have been sourced from the Oakland Symphony
Orchestra.


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On Sunday, April 1, 2012 12:15:24 PM UTC-4, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
After suffering criticism from all corners of the industry, audio pioneer
Peter Belt has released a product that could bring the industry to its
knees.


LOL at Peter Belt and the 'phooles who buy his products. But please don't include room treatments among your list of BS tweaks. Room acoustics is an important aspect of audio reproduction, and bass traps, diffusers, and other treatments are important tools for improving sound quality.

--Ethan
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Ron Capik[_3_] Ron Capik[_3_] is offline
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On 4/1/2012 12:26 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
A demonstration in New York City to a group of high-end dealers
and writers proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one
"golden eared" reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The
air became suddenly faster, more palpable, and there was more
'there' there."


That means the air couldn't have been sourced from the Oakland Symphony
Orchestra.


I'm confused. Is it just the concert hall air or does it include
the characteristic air of the orchestra and conductor?
Think of the possibilities if one could mix and match!
Also wondering if lower cost small venue air will become
available in the future.
==

Later...
Ron Capik
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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William Sommerwerck wrote:
A demonstration in New York City to a group of high-end dealers
and writers proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one
"golden eared" reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The
air became suddenly faster, more palpable, and there was more
'there' there."


That means the air couldn't have been sourced from the Oakland Symphony
Orchestra.


No way, it's got von Karajan's actual flatulence in there. That's how
you know it's authentic.
--scott

--
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On 4/1/2012 1:10 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
William wrote:
A demonstration in New York City to a group of high-end dealers
and writers proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one
"golden eared" reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The
air became suddenly faster, more palpable, and there was more
'there' there."


That means the air couldn't have been sourced from the Oakland Symphony
Orchestra.


No way, it's got von Karajan's actual flatulence in there. That's how
you know it's authentic.
--scott

Hmmm, do we now know one of those "golden eared" reviewers?
==

Later...
Ron Capik
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On 1 Apr 2012 13:10:22 -0400 "Scott Dorsey" wrote in
article

William Sommerwerck wrote:
A demonstration in New York City to a group of high-end dealers
and writers proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one
"golden eared" reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The
air became suddenly faster, more palpable, and there was more
'there' there."


That means the air couldn't have been sourced from the Oakland Symphony
Orchestra.


No way, it's got von Karajan's actual flatulence in there. That's how
you know it's authentic.
--scott


Flatulence is ok. I want to know if the Air is treated for pathogens and
allergens upon packaging. And, if so, how might the treatment affect its
sonic properties??
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PStamler PStamler is offline
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I imagine there are different varieties; Chamber Air, Symphony Air,
Jazz Air, etc.. I'm waiting for Burlesque Air, aka "Air on a G
String".

Peace,
Paul
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On 4/1/2012 5:33 PM, Richard Webb wrote:

I would hope you don't actually buy into that snake oil
bull****. I'm sure there are audiophools who might, but
hopefully we don't have time for them here.


Audio Aprilphools, perhaps.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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On Sun 2012-Apr-01 12:15, Gary Eickmeier writes:
pioneer Peter Belt has released a product that could bring the
industry to its knees. We have had fancy cables, green pens, and
room treatments - now brace yourself for the final solution: Mr.
Belt has succeeded in bottling concert hall air and making it last
for an entire LP.

snip


I would hope you don't actually buy into that snake oil
bull****. I'm sure there are audiophools who might, but
hopefully we don't have time for them here.


Regards,
Richard
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| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.


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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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OK, I give. Real life (real Peter Belt) has me beat.

Gary Eickmeier


"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...
http://sciencepunk.com/v4/pwbelt.htm

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511



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april fool!
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On Sun 2012-Apr-01 15:23, Mike Rivers writes:
I would hope you don't actually buy into that snake oil
bull****. I'm sure there are audiophools who might, but
hopefully we don't have time for them here.


Audio Aprilphools, perhaps.


arrrgh Got me again. forgot what day it is. Every
couple years somebody gets me with one. I just never pay
attention to it.

Glad i dialed back the high octane torch before posting
grumble.

I should've known g.


Regards,
Richard
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Gary Eickmeier wrote:

A demonstration in New York City to a group of high end dealers and writers
proved that the concept works. "Incredible," said one "golden eared"
reviewer, who wishes to remain anonymous. "The air became suddenly faster,
more palpable, and there was more 'there' there."


Interviewer: Is this some new sort of hi-fi you're talking about?
Beatnik: Oh, yeah, man, my fi is very very high. It's very mellow.

-- Ernie Kovacs Routine
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
acquisition...


Ethan is spot on. Beyond a certain basic quality of equipment, room
acoustics
are *by far* the most important thing you can attend to.

For one thing, good room acoustics will take a lot of ambiguity out of
listening
tests to determine which esoteric hardware or tweaks to hardware might
have merit,
and which are a waste of time and money.


Too big a subject for a thread in a newsgroup, but the only room treatment
that results in greater realism is to get a bigger room.

Gary Eickmeier


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"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
.com...
OK, I give. Real life (real Peter Belt) has me beat.

April Fools is getting really tough. This is what you have to compete
against:

http://electronicdesign.com/article/...ff-anyhow-6134


Intersting quote from the above:

" Let's say you have demonstration models of some good loudspeakers. How do
you decide that type A is better than type B, or, that it's different? Mr.
David L. Clark, Chief Engineer, DLC Designs, Farmington Hills, Mich.,
combined a set of relays and a random number generator to make an "ABX"
tester. If you push the switch for A, the tester connects to the A speakers,
or the A set of wires, or whatever. Then you can listen intently and decide
that the sound you're listening to is the "A" sound.

If you hit B, you get channel B, and you listen to "the B sound." If you
push X, you get a randomized selection and you jot down whether it's channel
A or B. At the end of 10 tests, let's say that you have listed: A, B, A, B,
B, B, A, A, A, B. Once that sequence is completed, the ABX box will tell you
what it ACTUALLY connected. If you listed eight out of 10 correctly, that's
a lot better than just guessing-you probably did hear a difference. If it's
four or five, well... Who knows? In some cases, some people with really good
ears can hear things that I cannot. In other cases, they're unable to tell.
In yet other cases, they refuse to try because they don't like the test.

Still, when speaker cables of different types or characteristics are
connected through an ABX box, some people with "really good ears" might hear
the difference IF the wires have different amounts of inductance,
capacitance, or resistance. It's generally admitted that no matter how
exotic the materials or the construction techniques, if two sets of wires
have the same R, L, and C, you can't tell them apart. Nobody can.

So you'll find that one guy wants to sell you 10 feet of speaker cable for
$100; another guy claims his are a LOT better, and they MUST be better
because they cost $300 for 10 feet; and then a similar claim is made for a
$480 cable. But if they all have the same R, L, and C-and each one spouts
claims such as..."superior imaging"..."finer presence and less phase shift,"
etc., etc.-that strikes me as somewhere between fraud and hoax.

You can spend your money any way you want to. You can say that you hear a
difference. But if I offer you an ABX test, you should not get mad at me and
stalk out.

Now, let me digress briefly. Let's say you have demonstration models of some
good loudspeakers. How do you decide that type A is better than type B, or,
that it's different? Mr. David L. Clark, Chief Engineer, DLC Designs,
Farmington Hills, Mich., combined a set of relays and a random number
generator to make an "ABX" tester. If you push the switch for A, the tester
connects to the A speakers, or the A set of wires, or whatever. Then you can
listen intently and decide that the sound you're listening to is the "A"
sound.

If you hit B, you get channel B, and you listen to "the B sound." If you
push X, you get a randomized selection and you jot down whether it's channel
A or B. At the end of 10 tests, let's say that you have listed: A, B, A, B,
B, B, A, A, A, B. Once that sequence is completed, the ABX box will tell you
what it ACTUALLY connected. If you listed eight out of 10 correctly, that's
a lot better than just guessing-you probably did hear a difference. If it's
four or five, well... Who knows? In some cases, some people with really good
ears can hear things that I cannot. In other cases, they're unable to tell.
In yet other cases, they refuse to try because they don't like the test.

Still, when speaker cables of different types or characteristics are
connected through an ABX box, some people with "really good ears" might hear
the difference IF the wires have different amounts of inductance,
capacitance, or resistance. It's generally admitted that no matter how
exotic the materials or the construction techniques, if two sets of wires
have the same R, L, and C, you can't tell them apart. Nobody can.

So you'll find that one guy wants to sell you 10 feet of speaker cable for
$100; another guy claims his are a LOT better, and they MUST be better
because they cost $300 for 10 feet; and then a similar claim is made for a
$480 cable. But if they all have the same R, L, and C-and each one spouts
claims such as..."superior imaging"..."finer presence and less phase shift,"
etc., etc.-that strikes me as somewhere between fraud and hoax.

You can spend your money any way you want to. You can say that you hear a
difference. But if I offer you an ABX test, you should not get mad at me and
stalk out."

In fact, Dave and 5 other people including myself were repsonsible for
inventing, designing and building the above-mentioned ABX device. It is
interesting that the long-term response of the top High End audio gurus such
as Atkinson and Harley has been to, as Mr. Pease said: "...get mad at me and
stalk out".


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Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message

Ethan is spot on. Beyond a certain basic quality of equipment, room
acoustics
are *by far* the most important thing you can attend to.

For one thing, good room acoustics will take a lot of ambiguity out of
listening
tests to determine which esoteric hardware or tweaks to hardware might
have merit,
and which are a waste of time and money.


Too big a subject for a thread in a newsgroup, but the only room treatment
that results in greater realism is to get a bigger room.


Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea. Just
getting standing waves under control above 40 Hz or so can make a dramatic
improvement in a room.

Hell, I have been to some very expensive manufacturers' demos in listening
rooms with windows all over the place, direct slap echos at high frequencies
causing very obvious imaging issues... nobody seemed to care.... Just
closing the curtains would have made a distinct improvement...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey writes:

Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea.


What happens if you set up your audio system on a salt flat, with no roof and
no walls for tens of miles in every direction?
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Scott Dorsey writes:

Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea.


What happens if you set up your audio system on a salt flat, with no roof and
no walls for tens of miles in every direction?


You get a slap echo from the ground, and no reflections from the walls.

It's fairly common to do measurement work this way rather than use an
anechoic chamber. With a speaker set up on top of a ladder in a meadow, I
can see standing waves from the ground and sometimes a little bit from the
ladder, but otherwise I can get pretty clean curves.

For actual listening this is sometimes a bad thing since most recordings
are made a little dry, with the intention of listening to them in a slightly
live acoustic.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Mxsmanic wrote:
Scott Dorsey writes:

Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea.


What happens if you set up your audio system on a salt flat, with no
roof and no walls for tens of miles in every direction?


Corrosion problem.

geoff


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Richard Webb wrote:
On Sun 2012-Apr-01 12:15, Gary Eickmeier writes:
pioneer Peter Belt has released a product that could bring the
industry to its knees. We have had fancy cables, green pens, and
room treatments - now brace yourself for the final solution: Mr.
Belt has succeeded in bottling concert hall air and making it last
for an entire LP.

snip


I would hope you don't actually buy into that snake oil
bull****. I'm sure there are audiophools who might, but
hopefully we don't have time for them here.



No really - for the music to sound 'right' the medium (air, in this case)
needs to be Concert Hall Density. Otherwise the different instruments arrive
at the listening position at different times.

geoff


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"geoff" wrote in message
...

No really - for the music to sound 'right' the medium (air, in this case)
needs to be Concert Hall Density. Otherwise the different instruments
arrive at the listening position at different times.


That time alignment BS has always fascinated me - like, how do you determine
when a signal "arrives" at your position? Leading edge transients maybe -
but that would be high freqs only. So when does, say, a 50 Hz bass wave
arrive?

Gary Eickmeier


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On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 7:43:32 AM UTC-4, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
So when does, say, a 50 Hz bass wave arrive?


All sound travels at the same speed, about 1100 feet per second. So if you're 11 feet in front of a loudspeaker, you'll hear the sound 10 milliseconds after it starts to play.

--Ethan
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On 4/4/2012 7:43 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

That time alignment BS has always fascinated me - like, how do you determine
when a signal "arrives" at your position? Leading edge transients maybe -
but that would be high freqs only. So when does, say, a 50 Hz bass wave
arrive?


You have to think of sound waves as an expanding 'front" in
this case, so the sound 'arrives" when the front arrives at
your point of measurement. It may get louder or softer
through the cycle, but if there's another copy of it coming
from a different distance, you need to take the same point
on each wave to determine their phase relationship. They all
originate at the same point, so that's as good a point of
reference as any.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff


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"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey writes:

Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea.


What happens if you set up your audio system on a salt flat, with no roof
and
no walls for tens of miles in every direction?


Speakers for use in rooms are designed for a specific number of boundary
surfaces. Examples:

1. Speaker hung on middle of wall = 1 boundary surface.
2. Speaker on floor at juncture of wall and floor = 2 boundary surfaces.
3. Speaker in corner at juncture of two walls and floor = 3 boundary
surfaces.
4. Speaker in very small space, such as a sound booth with rigid walls =
pressurization model of acoustic space.

If the wall is rigid, acoustic reinforcement of the speaker output is
proportional to the sum of the boundary surfaces. The speaker designer
voices the speaker with the assumption of one of the above. As the
frequency reproduced approaches zero, the acoustic model transitions from
one that approximates free space, to another model dominated by standing
waves, and finally, one characterized by pressurization. Headphones are
designed for a pressurized space.

Mxsmanic's worry that speakers on a salt flat won't sound good is
intuition that results from experience we've all had. Sound outside sounds
thin compared to sound inside, and this is the reason why.

Speakers for outdoor sound reinforcement are designed with the assumption
of no boundary surface reinforcement. This requires much higher acoustic
power , which practically speaking, requires much higher acoustic
efficiency, than speakers designed for use inside. This is typically met
with horn radiators, which have problems with phase shift. So it is a real
question whether available technology can provide sound as pleasing on a
salt flat as in a well treated acoustic space.

So here's a question: Are there outdoor sound systems that have such high
fidelity that the salt flat can be used to best the fidelity of the best
interior systems and treated rooms? Assume full bandwidth is required.


Bob, your discussion above shows that you are thinking in terms of frequency
response alone, and not the spatial result of playing recordings
anechoically.

Spatially speaking, such a system would be a disaster regardless of freq
response, because all of the sound would be forced thru those two points in
space. It would be dry and annoying and if off center all you would hear
would be the nearer speaker. If on center, all of the sound would be heard
to come from the limited portal defined by the separation between the
speakers. All of the recorded ambience would come from the same set of
limited angles and sound very unnatural.

Loudspeaker binaural might be interesting played that way, if you were right
on center, but might have a lot of In-Head Localization (IHL) similar to the
headphone effect.

Gary Eickmeier


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Soundhaspriority writes:

Mxsmanic's worry that speakers on a salt flat won't sound good is intuition
that results from experience we've all had.


Actually I don't know if they'd sound good or not, I was just wondering.

All this stuff about speakers sounds extremely complicated. I think headphones
are a better choice. Headphones give you more control over what is going into
each ear, and that's what it is ultimately all about, right?
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/4/2012 7:43 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

That time alignment BS has always fascinated me - like, how do you
determine
when a signal "arrives" at your position? Leading edge transients maybe -
but that would be high freqs only. So when does, say, a 50 Hz bass wave
arrive?


You have to think of sound waves as an expanding 'front" in this case, so
the sound 'arrives" when the front arrives at your point of measurement.
It may get louder or softer through the cycle, but if there's another copy
of it coming from a different distance, you need to take the same point on
each wave to determine their phase relationship. They all originate at the
same point, so that's as good a point of reference as any.


No, you have to think of sound waves as a phenomenon that takes some time to
happen. A 50 Hz wave doesn't just "arrive" - it takes 1/50th of a second to
happen. Nor is it just one cycle. I think we all know that drivers would
have to be separated by several feet for anything to be audible at all, that
then it would be for reasons other than time alignment.

Gary Eickmeier


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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority writes:

Mxsmanic's worry that speakers on a salt flat won't sound good is
intuition
that results from experience we've all had.


Actually I don't know if they'd sound good or not, I was just wondering.

All this stuff about speakers sounds extremely complicated. I think
headphones
are a better choice. Headphones give you more control over what is going
into
each ear, and that's what it is ultimately all about, right?


NO. That is what binaural is all about, not stereophonic. Someone stop me
from preaching.

Gary Eickmeier



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"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Bob, your discussion above shows that you are thinking in terms of
frequency response alone, and not the spatial result of playing
recordings anechoically.

No, Gary, I was posing a question for discussion. No opinion is expressed
or implied.


Your question was based on a series of statements about the freq response
consequences of losing the boundaries of a normal room. You said nothing
about the spatial, which is why I responded.

Gary Eickmeier




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Soundhaspriority writes:

That one is tough, too. The ear-brain localization system is deprived of
cues provided by the external ear and skull.


There aren't any cues provided by the external ear or skull.

All of the extra cues that are available when listening to sound live come
from moving the head. Wearing headphones is equivalent to listening to sound
with the head rigidly held in one position.

I have long thought that a headphone system with motion sensors using
real-time mixing from a multiple-track source (more than two tracks) would fix
this, but I don't know if anyone has actually built such a system. It's
certainly technically feasible. It could be done for sources like 5.1 sound.
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority writes:


All this stuff about speakers sounds extremely complicated. I think
headphones are a better choice. Headphones give you more control
over what is going into each ear, and that's what it is ultimately all
about, right?


No, what it's all about is accurate reproduction. Headphones eliminate room
acoustics, but they produce an "in the head" effect, unless you introduce
crosstalk and head-shadowing. Which, oddly, do not appear on any controller
I'm aware of.


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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority writes:


That one is tough, too. The ear-brain localization system is
deprived of cues provided by the external ear and skull.


There aren't any cues provided by the external ear or skull.


You couldn't be more wrong. You don't know what you're talking about.

You need to leave this group and study sound, sound recording, and sound
reproduction for a while.


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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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NO. That is what binaural is all about, not stereophonic.
Someone stop me from preaching.


Don't apologize for criticizing someone who is trolling this group (even if
he doesn't think he is).


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"Mrs. Maniac" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority writes:

That one is tough, too. The ear-brain localization system is deprived of
cues provided by the external ear and skull.


There aren't any cues provided by the external ear or skull.
done for sources like 5.1 sound.


More utter bull**** from a proudly ignorant troll.



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Mxsmanic Mxsmanic is offline
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William Sommerwerck writes:

You couldn't be more wrong. You don't know what you're talking about.


I know exactly what I'm talking about. You have only two cochleas, they
receive only two signals. They are unable to determine direction unambiguously
unless you move your head. Period.

You need to leave this group and study sound, sound recording, and sound
reproduction for a while.


In this case, it's simple math, and has no relation to sound, sound recording,
or sound reproduction.

You can't triangulate a position with just two signals. It's as simple as
that. A stationary head provides only two signals. If you want more, you have
to move your head.
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Mxsmanic Mxsmanic is offline
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William Sommerwerck writes:

No, what it's all about is accurate reproduction. Headphones eliminate room
acoustics, but they produce an "in the head" effect, unless you introduce
crosstalk and head-shadowing.


If the original sound is recorded with an artificial head, and then played
back with headphones that introduce the same sound into the ear canals, the
playback should sound exactly like the original.
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck writes:


No, what it's all about is accurate reproduction. Headphones eliminate
room acoustics, but they produce an "in the head" effect, unless you
introduce crosstalk and head-shadowing.


If the original sound is recorded with an artificial head, and then played
back with headphones that introduce the same sound into the ear canals,
the playback should sound exactly like the original.


And how many binaural recordings are available at your local record store?


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Might I quote Pope? (Alexander, not The.)

"A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."


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"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey writes:

Not necessarily, although getting a bigger room is seldom a bad idea.


What happens if you set up your audio system on a salt flat, with no roof
and
no walls for tens of miles in every direction?


Speakers for use in rooms are designed for a specific number of boundary
surfaces. Examples:

1. Speaker hung on middle of wall = 1 boundary surface.
2. Speaker on floor at juncture of wall and floor = 2 boundary surfaces.
3. Speaker in corner at juncture of two walls and floor = 3 boundary
surfaces.
4. Speaker in very small space, such as a sound booth with rigid walls =
pressurization model of acoustic space.


The boundary effects are predictable and primarily affect low frequency
response. Equalization can mitigate the primary negative effect (perceived
as thin sound).

If the wall is rigid, acoustic reinforcement of the speaker output is
proportional to the sum of the boundary surfaces. The speaker designer
voices the speaker with the assumption of one of the above. As the
frequency reproduced approaches zero, the acoustic model transitions from
one that approximates free space, to another model dominated by standing
waves, and finally, one characterized by pressurization. Headphones are
designed for a pressurized space.


Common wisdom seems to be that the boundary behind conventional speakers
should be rigid with some diffusion. If it ends in corners it may be
necessary to put absorbtion in the corners.

Mxsmanic's worry that speakers on a salt flat won't sound good is
intuition that results from experience we've all had. Sound outside sounds
thin compared to sound inside, and this is the reason why.


Exactly.

Speakers for outdoor sound reinforcement are designed with the assumption
of no boundary surface reinforcement.


Depends. Playing music for a large crowd at an outdoor venue is a common and
very profitable pastime during the summer in the US. We killed a few people
this way last summer, but it can be done safely and even somewhat
pleasurably for critical listeners. Most of the time the venue is either an
existing outdoor music venue with some kind of rigid, diffusing acoustic
shell, or a raised plaform with sonically transparent horizontal boundaries
and bass reinforced by massive (sub)woofers.

This requires much higher acoustic power , which practically speaking,
requires much higher acoustic efficiency, than speakers designed for use
inside. This is typically met with horn radiators, which have problems
with phase shift.


If the only technical problems with outdoor speakers were the phase shift
inehrent in waveguide-based speakers, it would be a very good day indeed. I
know that high end audiophiles are educated by the high end establishment to
distrust waveguides, but in fact modern waveguide-based speakers are
probably the most ideal speaker drivers around.

So it is a real question whether available technology can provide sound as
pleasing on a salt flat as in a well treated acoustic space.


The potential problem with this statement is that it appears to conflate two
different things: music production and music reproduction. The rules for
large space music reproduction are different from those for small spaces,
and being outdoors changes the rules again because it changes the scale of
the problem.

So here's a question: Are there outdoor sound systems that have such high
fidelity that the salt flat can be used to best the fidelity of the best
interior systems and treated rooms? Assume full bandwidth is required.


Solving the bandwidth problem outdoors (example: on a plane or salt flat)
as far as bass extension goes is just a matter of spending money on existing
technology.


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