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#1
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River
MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible. This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a wonderful thingWith this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second when budget permits? Thank you all for you advice so far. The group has been extremely helpful. Gerry Nelson ps. Apart from its ability to use 12V and 48V, is there any reason to go for the CMC6 amplifier instead? |
#2
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
wrote in message oups.com... I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible. This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a wonderful thing. Sure, although, given the radiation pattern of acoustic guitar, a less directional microphone makes it easier to capture the full sound of the instrument. It requires a good sounding room, though. The microphone placement is absolutely critical with a hypercardioid like the MK41. In turn, it picks less room ambience, which is a good thing in less than perfect rooms. Fiddling with the microphone placement is much easier and cheaper than fixing the room acoustics. With this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second when budget permits? It's not exactly a win-or-lose situation. You can easily get a great sounding recording with a single Schoeps. Instead of that, you could ask how much is there to be gained by introducing a second microphone. That, however, is difficult to predict without knowing more about the context. Obviously, it's much more likely to make a difference in case of a minimalist, solo acoustic guitar recording than within a dense pop/rock arrangement, where it could even turn out to be completely redundant. Predrag |
#3
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Gerry, a lot of wonderful records were made in mono back in the day.
Good mono is certainly more listenable than bad stereo. But mono and stereo pickup produces very different results, and I think that you should experience the effect first-hand even if that means borrowing or renting a pair of someone else's microphones to try it. I happen to use the combination of CMC 5 and MK 41 a lot ("CMC 541"), though I also use MK 8 capsules and increasingly these days, MK 21. As far as the CMC 5 versus the CMC 6 is concerned, apart from the more flexible phantom powering arrangement and the ca. $20 difference in price to go with it, there are two differences. They may not concern you very much, but I'll spell them out and you can decide. The first difference would mainly concern people who record pipe organs and full orchestras with omnidirectional microphones, since Schoeps omnis have flat response down to the lowest audio frequencies and beyond. All Schoeps microphone amplifiers have a protective rolloff at the bottom end of the audio spectrum, but it's done a little differently in the two models: In the CMC 5 this begins at 30 Hz and has a mild slope (6 dB/octave), while in the CMC 6 the response stays flat to a lower frequency (20 Hz) and then rolls off somewhat more sharply (12 dB/octave). The second difference would concern anyone who works in a heavy RF environment: The CMC 6 is damn near immune even to very strong RF interference. The CMC 5 is certainly no slouch in this department--I record in many locations in and around New York City, and since I moved here in 1981 I've only had one detectable RFI problem that I can recall with the CMC 5. (Oddly, it was a session in the suburbs--not in town.) But the shielding and grounding of the CMC 6 were re-engineered a couple of years ago such that, to my knowledge, there have simply been no reported cases at all with the newer version. Again, in most usual studio applications this probably isn't a concern, but looking toward the future, the general tendency is for more and more people to use more and more of the radio frequency spectrum in more and more places. If I were "starting from scratch" today I would choose the CMC 6, though I'm not looking to let go of my trusty CMC 5 amplifiers in any hurry. I hope that this wasn't too much information ... --best regards |
#4
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
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#5
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Dave, the change occurred a couple of years ago, but for various
reasons the serial number isn't a completely reliable indicator, e.g. some older CMC 6 amplifiers were "retrofitted" but their serial numbers remained the same. Newer-type CMC 6 amplifiers can be identified from the outside if you look closely at the XLR connector. The newer type has a shiny, circular, gold-colored metal plate visible at the back of the connector (i.e. at the base of the pins); the older type doesn't, nor do any CMC 3, 4, or 5 amplifiers. I hope this helps. --best regards |
#7
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Ty,
I remember reading you'd made a recording of your Martin with the Schoeps but I couldn't find it on your website. Is it still there? Kind Regards, Gerry |
#8
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic
guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s? Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES! I hope to answer that question for myself sometime soon by borrowing the mics in question and recording with them. Gerry |
#9
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
wrote in message oups.com... Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s? Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES! I can't imagine owning a pair of KM184s as being a mistake, but as one of the latest converts to Schoeps, owning a single CMC4/MK41 and having tried it extensively on acoustic guitar, I must say that there's something irresistible in the sound of that mike. Highly addictive. Predrag |
#10
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
After Ty got his Schoeps, I jealously suffered through a year or two of his
posts praising its qualities and urging everyone to get one. I had recorded on Schoeps years ago and understood his enthusiasm. I finally scraped up the cash and bought a matched pair of CMC64s. Best money I ever spent on a microphones. They are accurate yet flattering. They make virtually EVERYTHING sound good. It is only with the greatest effort that I have kept myself from echoing Ty. So, to answer the question specifically, while my KM184s are quite good, they pale by comparison to the Schoeps. Actually, to my taste, almost everything does. "Uncle Russ" Reinberg WESTLAKE RECORDS www.westlakerecords.com wrote in message oups.com... Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s? Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES! I hope to answer that question for myself sometime soon by borrowing the mics in question and recording with them. Gerry |
#11
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
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#12
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Well the rig is 2 channel so it could be one output of the A-T behind
the Schoeps. It sounds like an interesting experiment! Gerry |
#13
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Ah yes, but what about a single CMC5/MK41 vs a pair of KM184s?
Anyway, I hope to experience the magic for myself by borrowing one sometime soon and then things might be a little clearer. Gerry Nelson |
#14
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:30:49 -0500, wrote
(in article .com): Ty, I remember reading you'd made a recording of your Martin with the Schoeps but I couldn't find it on your website. Is it still there? Kind Regards, Gerry Hi Gerry, My site closely sometimes resembles a dorm room closet on inspection. I can't find any clips of the CMC641 on my Martin at the moment either. If you want, I'll try to get something within the next day or so. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:01:03 -0500, wrote
(in article .com): Sorry, Predrag, I missed this. I'm making solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar recordings. I guess the question is: is it preferable to get a single CMC541 instead of a pair of KM184s? Judging by the opinions posted here, the answer is a resounding YES! I hope to answer that question for myself sometime soon by borrowing the mics in question and recording with them. Gerry Um, did I mention YES? Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
Albert wrote:
gesunelson wrote: I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy. I'm getting the Great River MP-2 preamp. Only thing is, I'm not sure yet whether my budget will stretch to two Schoeps CMC5/MK41 mics. One is definitely possible. This will be fed into a LynxOne soundcard. I vaguely remember someone here (Ty Ford?) mentioning that a single well mic'd guitar can be a wonderful thingWith this quality of signal chain, will I lose a lot by recording using a single mic to begin with and then adding a second when budget permits? Are you considering recording with both the single Schoeps and the stereo A-T mic? I'd be tempted to try it - maybe find a sweet spot for the Schoeps a foot or 2 back, and the stereo mic behind it for stereophony/ambience mixed in to taste. Will your rig permit this otherwise in terms of preamps/converters? The MK41 cap is hypercard. I'd start with it back from the instrument about the length of the instrument itself to let it hear the whole thing. -- ha |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
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#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
gesunelson wrote:
Ah yes, but what about a single CMC5/MK41 vs a pair of KM184s? I'd go with the Schoeps in your case, because you can later get another that will precisely match the one you'd have. Right now all yoiu need is that one glorious mic to track your guitar. -- ha |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar?
I love this group!
Gerry |
#20
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:30:49 -0500, wrote
(in article .com): Ty, I remember reading you'd made a recording of your Martin with the Schoeps but I couldn't find it on your website. Is it still there? Kind Regards, Gerry Hi Gerry. In my OnLine Archive, Inside the AUDIO folder is a 10.5 MB mono, 16-bit, 44.1 wav of my D28S and the Schoeps cmc641. Up close; 3-4 inches out from the upper bout near where the neck joins the body. Medium gauge Marquis (and they're more than halfway dead.) This combo gives me pretty much what the guitar sounds like to my ear. No scratchy, tinkly high end stuff. I use my wife's Taylor if I need a brighter sound. At first, with this combo, my instinct was to reach for a little 6 k or 10 k. I held off until I added limiting and compression and found they put a nice little edge (ARTIFACT) the was enough and I didn't need the EQ. Dunno if you can hear the room or not. It's tight, but not dead...by design GML preamp, RME ADI-8 DS A/D converter, Digi 002R, Pro Tools LE. No processing of any sort, no EQ no nuthin'. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
#21
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY
Ty Ford wrote:
In my OnLine Archive, Inside the AUDIO folder is a 10.5 MB mono, 16-bit, 44.1 wav of my D28S and the Schoeps cmc641. There's a file there, but it's not 10.5MB. It's zero bytes. Either something went wrong during the upload or there's some kind of link issue on the .mac page. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
#22
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:07:08 -0500, Lorin David Schultz wrote
(in article MXDTf.4130$J43.3407@edtnps90): Ty Ford wrote: In my OnLine Archive, Inside the AUDIO folder is a 10.5 MB mono, 16-bit, 44.1 wav of my D28S and the Schoeps cmc641. There's a file there, but it's not 10.5MB. It's zero bytes. Either something went wrong during the upload or there's some kind of link issue on the .mac page. Hmm, yes, weird. It's showing on one computer correctly, but the laptop says 0. Lemme try that again. Ty -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
#23
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY
You're right, Ty, it doesn't need eq'ing. That is just lovely! Thanks
for putting the clip up. I'll be listening to it a few times! Kind Regards, Gerry |
#24
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Single CMC5/MK41 for micing an acoustic guitar? PING GERRY
Ty Ford wrote:
Hmm, yes, weird. It's showing on one computer correctly, but the laptop says 0. Lemme try that again. Whatever you did, it worked. Thanks! -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
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