"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:

snip, not relevant to following


I don't need sanctimonious lectures, Stewart, as I transferred several
dozen
of my favorite recordings to my laptop in 1997 using Real Jukebox....back
when you were barely aware of the possibility. But I have heard
compressed
music on my own audio systems, and until we have the lossless technology
combined with cost effectiveness and ease-of-use to transcribe my entire
music collection to a hard-disk server, I will stay with the original
media,
thank you.

We do. FLAC is free and lossless, and if you're playing music off of a
computer,
any number of media players can decode it. Portable players are less
common.

I have already 'transcribed' my entire music collection to a 300 Gb hard
drive, as FLAC files. By far the biggest bottleneck of any such project,
regardless of final format, is the actual ripping of the music from CDs.


I've ruled out using a computer as a music server, and I can't afford the
few dedicated servers that exist. I do rip and copy files using several
computers (I own three) and one of them is state of the art, but even using
the latest OEM Nero and Roxio Software, it simply requires too much care and
attention, and then playing them the same.

I want a music server that I put ten CD's into, and press a button that says
record, and when it is done, the disks are ejected and the recording is
indexed. If it is an LP, I want it to recognize the quiet grooves
(adjustable level) and track tracks, and go into automatic pause at end of
record. *THAT* is what I call convnenient, not spending hours and hours
manually copying using a computer.

I also use a computer to record. It is *only* about eight times more
complicated than using a dedicated recorder, which I am slowly moving back
to.

For me, the *when* is still a good five years away, I would guess. And I
may not live so long :-).

On 18 Dec 2005 20:57:55 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

I don't need sanctimonious lectures, Stewart, as I transferred several dozen
of my favorite recordings to my laptop in 1997 using Real Jukebox....back
when you were barely aware of the possibility.

Hmm, let's see, that would be about twenty years after I'd been
digitising sound (using ADCs of my own design) and storing it on hard
disks for Marconi Space and Defence - I do believe I was vaguely aware
of the possibilities.........

Granted, a 14-inch Nashua six-pack was a tad larger than an iPod, and
IIRC it had 60MB of storage, as opposed to the 60GB of the iPod!

But I have heard compressed
music on my own audio systems, and until we have the lossless technology
combined with cost effectiveness and ease-of-use to transcribe my entire
music collection to a hard-disk server, I will stay with the original media,
thank you.

You may not be aware of this, but the iPod does indeed have lossless
compression as one of its options, although I can tell no difference
between that, an 'original' .wav and 320kb/sec AAC, which is pretty
efficient at around 5:1 compression. To be honest, I'm not sure that I
can tell 192k AAC from the original, but better safe than sorry in
this regard for me. It's not like there's a storage space problem....

Regarding cost-effectiveness, a perfectly adequate music server can be
had for less than $1,000 these days, with essentially unlimited
storage capacity via USB-connected hard drives which are now down
below a dollar a gigabyte. You can store a *lot* of 24/96 recordings
on such a machine...............

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

bob wrote:
chung wrote:
Jenn wrote:

It's also true by simple observation
that in large record stores, the shelf space devoted to new release LP
has grown from last year.

That's a really funny statement. The largest record store(s) in the BAy
Area is Tower Records, and they do not carry vinyl. Neither does the
Fry's Electronics chain which has a fairly large music selection. Fry's
has a very decent SACD and DVD-Audio selection, though, especially in
the headquarters store in Sunnyvale.

I know of only one music store in New Jersey that stocks new vinyl: the
Princeton Record Exchange. Typically audiophile pressings, priced a few
dollars above the equivalent CD, or occasionally some imports. I see
the odd sealed LP in other used record shops, but that's probably some
long-remaindered item that somebody forgot to shelve or never got
around to opening.

My local Tower has vinyl...in the DJ section.

--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

bob wrote:
wrote:
http://audiotools.com/lp.html
"And if anyone thinks that the LP is dead here below are listed no
fewer than 106 current manufacturers of turntables with prices ranging
from less than 50 =80 to over 90k =80, and there are more to come."
Gosh if you were willing to accept the 'data" from Audio magazine then
it looks like the number of manufacturers has more than tripled. Feel
free to ignore this data as it completely contradicts what you seem to
want to believe. P.S. they also list 62 manufacturers of cartridges.
Hmm by your way of data analysis this must mean the number of
manufacturers has doubled. What do you think of that data?

Touche. The reason I made the Audio/Stereophile comparison was that: 1)
the two magazines used similar methodologies to collect data; 2) both
were restricted to a single market (the U.S.); and 3) they concentrated
on consumer, not pro/DJ gear.

yet you shose to ignore the obvious fact that Audio is substantially
more thourough. Again, a simple comparison between the speaker section
or CD player section should make that perfectly clear.

The site you reference doesn't fit any of
those criteria.

Your criteria appeas to by highly arbitrary considering the fact that
you chose to ignore the most important one, thouroughness. The fatc
that you made definite claims about the market based on an obvious
mismatch ws particularly laughable.

So while it provides evidence that there are a larger
number of turntable manufacturers worldwide than we are aware of in the
U.S., it doesn't help us with the question of whether that market is
growing, which was Graham's original assertion.

Sorry but the U.S. thing is entirely arbitrary. There is such a thing
caled importation. You will find that any number of the manufacturers
named in Audio are in fact not U.S. manufacturers. The website I cited
does not address whether or not those manufacturers have distribution
in the U.S. or not so you are making assumptions about availability.

And let's not forget
that his assertion was specifically directed at the consumer sector,
which is the only one relevant to this newsgroup.

Please quote graham where he excluded any particular type of LP
playback equipment. fact is one can use a DJ table at home.


I'm still looking for the first shred of evidence suggesting an actual,
growing market in high-end vinyl gear and software.

Are you really? If so just email Chad at Acoustic Sounds. He produces,
distributes and sells audiophile LPs and sells audiophile LP equipment.
I'm sure he could shed some relevant light on the state of LP playback
in the market place as it pertains to audiophiles.

Scott

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 18 Dec 2005 20:57:55 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

I don't need sanctimonious lectures, Stewart, as I transferred several
dozen
of my favorite recordings to my laptop in 1997 using Real Jukebox....back
when you were barely aware of the possibility.

Hmm, let's see, that would be about twenty years after I'd been
digitising sound (using ADCs of my own design) and storing it on hard
disks for Marconi Space and Defence - I do believe I was vaguely aware
of the possibilities.........

Granted, a 14-inch Nashua six-pack was a tad larger than an iPod, and
IIRC it had 60MB of storage, as opposed to the 60GB of the iPod!


Well, whoop de doo! Very practical for portable music, which is what I was
talking about.

But I have heard compressed
music on my own audio systems, and until we have the lossless technology
combined with cost effectiveness and ease-of-use to transcribe my entire
music collection to a hard-disk server, I will stay with the original
media,
thank you.

You may not be aware of this, but the iPod does indeed have lossless
compression as one of its options, although I can tell no difference
between that, an 'original' .wav and 320kb/sec AAC, which is pretty
efficient at around 5:1 compression. To be honest, I'm not sure that I
can tell 192k AAC from the original, but better safe than sorry in
this regard for me. It's not like there's a storage space problem....


I am aware of the lossless compression available. But that says nothing
about ease of use in a music server designed to fit into a home audio system
with a minimum of fuss.

Regarding cost-effectiveness, a perfectly adequate music server can be
had for less than $1,000 these days, with essentially unlimited
storage capacity via USB-connected hard drives which are now down
below a dollar a gigabyte. You can store a *lot* of 24/96 recordings
on such a machine...............


I build my own computers and am quite aware of the cost/performance aspects
of current technology. I am also aware that nothing on the market
approaches the simplicity of use that it would take to get me to go to the
trouble of centralizing and automating my media. I have already outlined
what would be required.

In article , "bob"
wrote:

Jenn wrote:
No, so much for that Tower. The Hollywood tower (the north side of
Sunset, not the classical annex) is as I said. I'll check SF when I'm
there in a couple of weeks. There was a healthy supply of LPs at the
Lincoln Center NYC store when I was there in February.

I never noticed. Where do they hide them?

bob

Which store?

On 20 Dec 2005 23:30:16 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

I've ruled out using a computer as a music server, and I can't afford the
few dedicated servers that exist. I do rip and copy files using several
computers (I own three) and one of them is state of the art, but even using
the latest OEM Nero and Roxio Software, it simply requires too much care and
attention, and then playing them the same.

I want a music server that I put ten CD's into, and press a button that says
record, and when it is done, the disks are ejected and the recording is
indexed. If it is an LP, I want it to recognize the quiet grooves
(adjustable level) and track tracks, and go into automatic pause at end of
record. *THAT* is what I call convnenient, not spending hours and hours
manually copying using a computer.

I also use a computer to record. It is *only* about eight times more
complicated than using a dedicated recorder, which I am slowly moving back
to.

For me, the *when* is still a good five years away, I would guess. And I
may not live so long :-).

Ah, OK, you're so dedicated to your audio hobby that you can't be
bothered to take the same care over transcribing your CDs that you
would in simply playing and cleaning your LPs......................

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

bob wrote:
wrote:
http://audiotools.com/lp.html
"And if anyone thinks that the LP is dead here below are listed no
fewer than 106 current manufacturers of turntables with prices ranging
from less than 50 ? to over 90k ?, and there are more to come."
Gosh if you were willing to accept the 'data" from Audio magazine then
it looks like the number of manufacturers has more than tripled. Feel
free to ignore this data as it completely contradicts what you seem to
want to believe. P.S. they also list 62 manufacturers of cartridges.
Hmm by your way of data analysis this must mean the number of
manufacturers has doubled. What do you think of that data?

Touche. The reason I made the Audio/Stereophile comparison was that: 1)
the two magazines used similar methodologies to collect data; 2) both
were restricted to a single market (the U.S.); and 3) they concentrated
on consumer, not pro/DJ gear. The site you reference doesn't fit any of
those criteria. So while it provides evidence that there are a larger
number of turntable manufacturers worldwide than we are aware of in the
U.S., it doesn't help us with the question of whether that market is
growing, which was Graham's original assertion. And let's not forget
that his assertion was specifically directed at the consumer sector,
which is the only one relevant to this newsgroup.

I'm still looking for the first shred of evidence suggesting an actual,
growing market in high-end vinyl gear and software.

If it's 'growing' it's 'growing' the way a blade of grass grows in
a redwood forest. It's still a tiny segment of the market, and there's
no indication that will ever change.

--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 20 Dec 2005 23:30:16 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

I've ruled out using a computer as a music server, and I can't afford the
few dedicated servers that exist. I do rip and copy files using several
computers (I own three) and one of them is state of the art, but even
using
the latest OEM Nero and Roxio Software, it simply requires too much care
and
attention, and then playing them the same.

I want a music server that I put ten CD's into, and press a button that
says
record, and when it is done, the disks are ejected and the recording is
indexed. If it is an LP, I want it to recognize the quiet grooves
(adjustable level) and track tracks, and go into automatic pause at end of
record. *THAT* is what I call convnenient, not spending hours and hours
manually copying using a computer.

I also use a computer to record. It is *only* about eight times more
complicated than using a dedicated recorder, which I am slowly moving back
to.

For me, the *when* is still a good five years away, I would guess. And I
may not live so long :-).

Ah, OK, you're so dedicated to your audio hobby that you can't be
bothered to take the same care over transcribing your CDs that you
would in simply playing and cleaning your LPs......................

The inconvenience and large block of time using today's technology is simply
not worth the small gain in convenience that I would get from not having to
manually play my records (which I do not find a huge burden when I'm in the
mood) or my CD's. Now, if the machine could be set to auto-set LP tracks
(and perhaps even name them such as CD over the web) and go into pause at
the end of a record or CD (so I didn't have to nurse and nanny them) then it
would be worth it. Why do you have trouble with this concept?