"Ian S" wrote in message
news1t%d.292291$0u.280226@fed1read04
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of
the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the
stratosphere?

A totally uncalled-for attack.

These aren't stratospheric brands - they all have well-engineered
offerings that fit in the middle-low end of mid-fi. Just because you
can't find them at Best Buy doesn't mean they are high end. ;-)

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message

Ian S wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Joe Sensor wrote:

Sony's are not going to be the best either, though preferable
over
the Bose.

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of
the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the
stratosphere?

Seems that you can get some PSB bookshelf speakers for $349. That's
not exactly Wal*Mart level prices, but do keep one thing in mind:
it's still cheaper than your typical Bose satellite system!

The point is well-taken. The real problem with Bose home audio isn't
the quality (it would be good at some low price point), and there are
no problems with the price points (they would be OK if the quality
were commensurate). What's wrong with Bose is all about value.

The price/performance problem with Bose home speakers becomes apparent
when you compare them to similarly-priced offerings from PSB, Boston
Acoustics, Energy, Paradigm, NHT and etc.

Ian S said:

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of the
better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the stratosphere?

There's always Arnii F. Krooger, who tells us that speakers by Quad,
Martin-Logan, Magnepan, Spendor, and many other brands are threats to our
religious security.

Notwithstanding, it is a fact that those companies make low-priced
speakers. If you think otherwise, then you must be very ignorant about the
consumer audio marketplace. Just like Krooger. ;-)

Bob Cain wrote:



Brian wrote:

Hi Bob.
If you take another look at my post I stated that "I read in an
article...." about the frequency reponses

Sorry. By the time I got to the end of it I'd lost track of
that.

If you'd like to read the article you'll find it at
www.intellexual.net/bose.html

I Don't have time right now to go read the article. Does it
say how the data it reports was taken?


Bob

Just thought you might be interested in the graphs in the article.

The article says that the data came from the August 1999 issue of
Sound and Vision. Also other bencemark tests from a few independent
audiophiles and industry professions are always consistent.

Regards Brian

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

Ian S said:

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of
the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the
stratosphere?

There's always Arnii F. Krooger, who tells us that speakers by Quad,
Martin-Logan, Magnepan, Spendor, and many other brands are threats
to
our religious security.

This would be yet another Middius lie of 100's if not 1,000's, given
that I have written favorable items about Quad and Magnepan. My
less-than favorable comments about certain Martin-Logan speakers were
simply some of those personal opinions based on personal preferences
that Middius accuses me of hating.

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...
**What possibility was that? That a professional managed to incorrectly
measure the frequency response? Sure, it's possible, but given the results
match Bose's figures, I doubt it.

"Bose's figures"? What figures do you have, and how
did you get them from Bose?


Wrong on the wave radio... sorry. I do
have some old, defunct, 501A Series IV cornerhorns that are long
out of service and molding away in the attic.

**Bose corner horns? Sounds like you have a pretty unique speaker. Bose
don't (nor have they ever) built horns. Klipsch build corner horns.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...
with no money that just want to play with themselves, and we let them.

nice - meanwhile my interconnects cost more than the best bose system -

Hee hee. Talk about a gullible idiot chump!

what a joke - but that's sales isn't it - these days watching the news i
feel that's what they've become too - just salespeople instead of
reporters

Hee hee. Talk about a gullible idiot chump!

I got a lot of components and am using home brew pbj. Bought several
yards years back and gold plated plugs all at reasonable prices and
soldered them myself with silver solder. retail they are about $50+
each pair. I'm no gic when it comes to audio and value BUT I do submit
that anyone buys bose (not for the sound) but on brand name recognition
is. I have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape
decks and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing
distortion. SO if that is what you are using I suggest you go to
audiogon.com and pick up a pair of pbj for yourself and use them from
your cd player to your pre and then from your pre to your power amp -
you will hear a difference in the clarity especially during peaks. At
least this was my experience. You're just trolling my man.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:19:28 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of
the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the
stratosphere?

A totally uncalled-for attack.

If you would only follow this guideline...

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:22:44 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message

Ian S wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Joe Sensor wrote:

Sony's are not going to be the best either, though preferable
over
the Bose.

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of
the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the
stratosphere?

Seems that you can get some PSB bookshelf speakers for $349. That's
not exactly Wal*Mart level prices, but do keep one thing in mind:
it's still cheaper than your typical Bose satellite system!

The point is well-taken. The real problem with Bose home audio isn't
the quality (it would be good at some low price point), and there are
no problems with the price points (they would be OK if the quality
were commensurate). What's wrong with Bose is all about value.

The price/performance problem with Bose home speakers becomes apparent
when you compare them to similarly-priced offerings from PSB, Boston
Acoustics, Energy, Paradigm, NHT and etc.

Now THIS is he type of commentary that we could use more of from Mr.
Krueger.

Well-done.

Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Australia does build some cool stuff, but you don't see a lot of it.
Building stuff in Australia is often more difficult and more expensive than
in the US.

Let me put in a good word for the ARX audio gear here. Certainly not high
end gear, but it's built a good bit better than typical MI-grade equipment
and only priced a little higher. I think that's a place in the market that
isn't really filled very well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 06:12:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Of course in a quiet environment(home), they sound like the
crap they are.


I heard a "small weddings" band use 801's which were "adequate" for
vocals only. Neither astonishingly good nor particularly bad, and
probably better than the Shure Vocal Masher that comparable groups were
using at the time.

Around the same time, I heard a band that used them as their mids in
clubs that were wider than long in leiu of their 12" horn loaded
cabinets they used in spaces that were longer than wide.

I thought their "Lifestyles" system they sold through Sharper Image
sounded MUCH better than anything else in the SIZE family, but nowhere
near as good as similarly-priced conventional speakers.

The last time I had the budget for such things, I thought their mid-line
sounded better than their top end, and that it was a "six-of-one"
situation. But there's no such thing as "deep bass" from anything in
that price/size range.

If you line all of us up end to end, we'll point in all directions, of
course. But my opinion is that in the price range of Bose you can
probably do better with a conventional system.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Joe Sensor wrote:

Sony's are not going to be the best either, though preferable over the
Bose. Just do a little surfing and research. I have a very nice Polk
system. There are many others.

In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of the
better Paradigm boxes, and NHT.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On my initial reading of this post, I understood the poster to be
disparaging the speakers mentioned by referring to them as
"bargain-basement" and concluded that it was just another in the long line
of snide unhelpful comments elicited by the original poster's request for
help regarding his Bose speakers. I see that I was very likely wrong in my
original impression and that Mr. Dorsey was indeed being helpful with his
suggestion - "bargain basement" in this case meaning "good value". I
therefore apologize to Mr Dorsey and retract my earlier comments directed to
him.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:59:56 -0800, Richard Crowley wrote:
The subject line says it all, doesn't it? :-)
Help is needed all around: the company, the speakers,
and the victims er. customers.

Step 1: learn how to use a web browser
Step 2: learn how to go to a search site such as google and search for
"bose opinions"

Ozzy 2005 wrote:

I have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape
decks and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing
distortion.


They break up causing distortion? What type of distortion would this be?
And what do you mean by "break up"?

They break up causing distortion? What type of distortion would this be?
And what do you mean by "break up"?
I don't have a much better description, with the pbj the sound is clear
with the no frills brands on peak material I get rattling in the tweeters.

The article says that the data came from the August 1999 issue of
Sound and Vision. Also other bencemark tests from a few independent
audiophiles and industry professions are always consistent.

Regards Brian

Sound and Vision removed it from their site a couple of
years later. It seems as if Bose has a real problem with
actual testing of their equipment.

Rule #1 of buying anything electronic or audio related:
Don't buy anything you can't find specs for.

This also applies to food - would you buy food at a
grocery store that didn't have ingredients listed?
(other than meat and such, of course)

"Trust us - this can of soup is healthy" doesn't
quite cut it. Why should it for audio either?

"Trust us - this can of soup is healthy" doesn't
quite cut it. Why should it for audio either?

Obviously you haven't seen the TV commercials for the wave radio and the
celebrity endorsements. Who needs specifications! Not to mention all
the magazine ads. But I must admit I did always want one of the CD wave
radios for the kitchen counter or to use as an alarm clock until I saw
the price, I'm gonna check some auctions see what they go for used, I'll
bet they retain 90% of their value due to all the demand the advertising
creates.

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...

Hee hee. Talk about a gullible idiot chump!

I got a lot of components and am using home brew pbj. Bought several
yards years back and gold plated plugs all at reasonable prices and
soldered them myself with silver solder. retail they are about $50+ each
pair. I'm no gic when it comes to audio and value BUT I do submit that
anyone buys bose (not for the sound) but on brand name recognition is. I
have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape decks
and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing distortion.

In which case trhere is something very broken about them.

SO if that is what you are using I suggest you go to audiogon.com and pick
up a pair of pbj for yourself and use them from your cd player to your pre
and then from your pre to your power amp - you will hear a difference in
the clarity especially during peaks.

Not if you don't know which are which.

At least this was my experience.

No, it was yor imagination.

geoff

"Ian S" wrote in news1t%d.292291$0u.280226
@fed1read04:

Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the stratosphere?

I suppose he could stick it up Bose's bottom, which so many wooden-eared
people with more money than brains seem to do.

--
Email, Smarthosting, Web hosting for individuals and business:
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
"I ran the Malicious Software Removal Tool, and now all my MS ware is gone!"

"No Spam" wrote in message
. net...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...
**What possibility was that? That a professional managed to incorrectly
measure the frequency response? Sure, it's possible, but given the
results match Bose's figures, I doubt it.

"Bose's figures"?

**Yep.

What figures do you have, and how
did you get them from Bose?

**I asked them. They're in the service manual/s.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

No, it was yor imagination.

geoff


All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat
hangers for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects. I'll stick
with what I consider inexpensive but heavy enough gauge with gold plated
connectors and you can use the flea market $0.10 a pair gray vinyl with
rust for added warmth. I had several friends come over and it wasn't
imagination. Maybe the interconnects were old and faulty this is
possible, maybe it had to do with poor shielding or something but the
distortion was there. So I take offense to your BS imagination claim.
I'm not a professional but have enough knowledge to know distortion when
I hear it. Soldering them on my own for what I paid for the wire and
connectors in bulk though their retail value would be considerably
higher they ended up costing pretty much just as much as RS. This is my
bose type weakness. I'm not going to use $2.99 interconnects with
$1,000 components. Sorry. But I must admit that I do use regular 12
gauge copper wire for my speakers. Though I wouldn't mind one of those
expensive sets or even silver. As for the angel hair interconnects
again I got no problems with them but again back to my original post
that started this endless wire controversy crap. My interconnects are
worth more than a Bose system, referring to the ahole salesman in the
post referring to people wanting to compare the bose 'sound' to other
higher fidelity components as penniless nerds. Also in there was the
pinhead with his LOL on my 'costly' interconnects. Hey buy bose, get a
technics or kenwood (not old stock 2005 production) and knock yourselves
out if it makes you happy THAT IS WHAT COUNTS. But don't try and claim
bose is high fidelity or that you can tell my ears are imagining things.
Now go play with your coat hangers I hear the are great for FM
reception too but I'll stick with my RS roof mounted thank you.

BTW on that note I placed two 1.5 amp fuses inline where the wire comes
into the house to theoretically protect against lightning - does that
work at all - I'm thinking the lightning goes right through but I had
them lying around when I did the wiring so I used them. What is a good
way to protect against lightning. The whole mast is grounded.

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...
BTW on that note I placed two 1.5 amp fuses inline where the wire comes
into the house to theoretically protect against lightning - does that work
at all - I'm thinking the lightning goes right through but I had them
lying around when I did the wiring so I used them. What is a good way to
protect against lightning. The whole mast is grounded.

Polyphasers for lightning protection is the professional industry standard.

http://www.polyphaser.com/

When in the full swing repair world, I would get the 'ol common "But I had
it plugged into a surge supressor".

Then I would pronounce my "rule of thumb"

We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from
a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find.
Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster.

Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks
doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area?

Chad

Brian wrote:


Thanks Trevor and others for your reply's.
Could someone suggest a suitable system to replace the BOSE speakers.
I have a small sized room so a sub woofer with satellite speakers
(surround sound 5.1 setup) would be more suitable at around 100 watts.
The only speakers I have looked at so far are the Sony brand.

Regards Brian


http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...ory=ht_package

Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks
doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area?

Chad


Not really and it's been three years and quite a few lightning storms
but I would guess that if it went down into the tuner that it wouldn't
even stop there it would probably fry the entire system and maybe even
make it down the speaker wires - nice thought. Will definitely check
out the link or unplug here on in!

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Bose's figures"?


**Yep.

What figures do you have, and how

did you get them from Bose?


**I asked them. They're in the service manual/s.



I guess they built the proper "room" to measure them in.

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...


No, it was yor imagination.

geoff
All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat hangers
for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects.

Que ?

geoff

Chad Wahls wrote:


We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from
a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find.
Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster.

(technically, it goes from the ground to the sky)

All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat hangers
for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects.

the gauge of the wire being so thin it is practically invisible

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
k.net...


Chad Wahls wrote:


We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump
from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can
find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster.

(technically, it goes from the ground to the sky)


Thechnically, it can go either way, and often goes
first one way and then the other.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
k.net...


Chad Wahls wrote:


We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump
from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can
find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster.

(technically, it goes from the ground to the sky)

Goes both ways, you can have a negative or positive strike.

Chad

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...

Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks
doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area?

Chad

Not really and it's been three years and quite a few lightning storms but
I would guess that if it went down into the tuner that it wouldn't even
stop there it would probably fry the entire system and maybe even make it
down the speaker wires - nice thought. Will definitely check out the link
or unplug here on in!

Not to be the bringer of bad tidings, but there's not really a thing you can
do, it's nature. I've repaired countless pieces of gear that were damaged
by lightning that were unplugged totally. A very close strike can induce
huge currents on circuit boards and interconnects.

Ma Nature has her ways eh? best bet, have insurance

Chad

Chad Wahls wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
k.net...


Chad Wahls wrote:



We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump
from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can
find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster.

(technically, it goes from the ground to the sky)


Goes both ways, you can have a negative or positive strike.

The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small
bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short
of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that
path, more or less, down.

The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small
bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short
of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that
path, more or less, down.

Discovery Channel show had a name for them can't recall.

Ozzy 2005 wrote:

The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small
bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short
of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that
path, more or less, down.

Discovery Channel show had a name for them can't recall.

I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of
us were sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a
lake in upstate New York when a serious electrical storm
bound us to the house for the afternoon. There was a big
old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we saw leaders
reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time
before we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the
house. They are quite visible, at least indoors, and a bit
noisy. They didn't connect with anything above but left us
pretty shaken in anticipation.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of us were
sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a lake in upstate New
York when a serious electrical storm bound us to the house for the
afternoon. There was a big old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we
saw leaders reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time
before we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the house. They
are quite visible, at least indoors, and a bit noisy. They didn't
connect with anything above but left us pretty shaken in anticipation.

Yes Leaders that's sounds familiar - very nice story - it got me nervous
just considering the possibility

"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message
...

I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of us were
sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a lake in upstate New
York when a serious electrical storm bound us to the house for the
afternoon. There was a big old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we saw
leaders reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time before
we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the house. They are quite
visible, at least indoors, and a bit noisy. They didn't connect with
anything above but left us pretty shaken in anticipation.

Yes Leaders that's sounds familiar - very nice story - it got me nervous
just considering the possibility

I thought it was leaders or streamers. It is an ionization of the air that
acts as a conduit for the larger pulse.

Chad

In article ,
says...


I have a BOSE Acoustimass 7 (3 saterlite speakers and bass speaker) I
brought this for surround sound. I have two BOSE VS100 small sized
speakers at the back of the room, near the ceiling.

I read in a article that the frequency range is:
Base module 46Hz to 202Hz at +-2.3dB
Satellites 280Hz to 13.3k Hz at +-10.5 dB
Can someone who has tested these speaker confirm that this is the
frequency range.
There seems to be gaps at
20Hz to 46 Hz
202Hz to 280Hz and
13.3k Hz to 20K Hz.

That is correct. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be. What you have
discovered is exactly why many folks don't like Bose speakers. For the
money, you can get much better sound.

I recently brought a sub woofer to try and full in the gap at the low
frequency range. The sub woofer is 28Hz to 200Hz.
I can't see anyway of disableing the BOSE bass speaker so that the Sub
Woofer is used.
I have a Surround 5.1 sound decoder in my DVD player and connected the
player to the ampilifer using 6 leads (one for each speaker). In doing
this I was hoping that the subwoofer would get only the low frewuency
sounds. I have since found that the cut off frequency for the sub
woofer filter built into the DVD player is 120K Hz. This leaves a gap
from 120K Hz to 202K Hz.
Another reason for connecting the amplifer with 6 leads was to be able
to play super audio cd's (SA-CD).
Any advice would be most welcome.

I would sell the Bose set up and get a decent set of speakers that does not
have such huge gaps in it's sound reproduction.
-------------
Alex

I have a BOSE Acoustimass 7 (3 saterlite speakers and bass speaker) I
brought this for surround sound. I have two BOSE VS100 small sized
speakers at the back of the room, near the ceiling.

I read in a article that the frequency range is:
Base module 46Hz to 202Hz at +-2.3dB
Satellites 280Hz to 13.3k Hz at +-10.5 dB
Can someone who has tested these speaker confirm that this is the
frequency range.
There seems to be gaps at
20Hz to 46 Hz
202Hz to 280Hz and
13.3k Hz to 20K Hz.


That is correct. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be. What you have
discovered is exactly why many folks don't like Bose speakers. For the
money, you can get much better sound.


I recently brought a sub woofer to try and full in the gap at the low
frequency range. The sub woofer is 28Hz to 200Hz.
I can't see anyway of disableing the BOSE bass speaker so that the Sub
Woofer is used.
I have a Surround 5.1 sound decoder in my DVD player and connected the
player to the ampilifer using 6 leads (one for each speaker). In doing
this I was hoping that the subwoofer would get only the low frewuency
sounds. I have since found that the cut off frequency for the sub
woofer filter built into the DVD player is 120K Hz. This leaves a gap

from 120K Hz to 202K Hz.

Another reason for connecting the amplifer with 6 leads was to be able
to play super audio cd's (SA-CD).
Any advice would be most welcome.


I would sell the Bose set up and get a decent set of speakers that does not
have such huge gaps in it's sound reproduction.

Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps?

Dan wrote:

Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency
gaps?

Absolutely not!

Like any system or component, there are many different ways of building
a quality system to achieve the desired results. But it takes enough
money to do the proper research and development and buy the right
quality components to avoid a compromised system, such as the Bose.

There have been excellent satellite systems available for many, many
years. M & K, for instance has been building such a system since the 70's.