Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? I
mean when you play the same song, on the same setting, on the same amp and
all... I played a Cd on my computer, and my DVD player on the same amp and I
can't tell any difference....

Just wonder what could justify a 1000 dollar CD player that only plays CD...

--
TAI FU

"tai fu" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players?

**Depending on which players, yes.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players?

**Depending on which players, yes.

What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"mc" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD
players?

**Depending on which players, yes.

What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening
test, very rarely.

What kind of differences?

Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the
human ear?

"mc" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD
players?

**Depending on which players, yes.

What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening
test, very rarely.

MrT.

"mc" wrote in message
...
What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening
test, very rarely.

What kind of differences?

THD, IMD, converter linearity, impulse response, etc.

Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding
the
human ear?

No, CD is limited to 22 kHz which is not that much above the human hearing
range. Frequency response amplitude sensitivity far beyond that of the human
ear will be necessary though to measure minute differences (in the vast
majority of cases at least) in frequency response over the 20 Hz to 20 kHz
bandwidth though.

MrT.

"tai fu" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players?

Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty much always
contributed inconsequentially to the sound - so long that it preforms
according to the way it was intended to. It is MUCH harder now-a-days to
detect any differences because DAC technology has become so much better, and
available at a fraction (of a fraction!) of the cost that it used to be. I
would GUESS that 'most' any player manufactured during the last couple of
years would be indistinguishable from each other. I am sure SOMEBODY still
sells players with (really cheap) obsolete first generation DAC chips
however.

"Jerohm" wrote in message
om
"tai fu" wrote in message
...

Can any of you guys hear differences between different
CD or DVD players?

Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty
much always contributed inconsequentially to the sound -
so long that it preforms according to the way it was
intended to.

Agreed. All that has happened to transports is that they have become
cheaper, smaller and lighter.

It is MUCH harder now-a-days to detect any
differences because DAC technology has become so much
better, and available at a fraction (of a fraction!) of
the cost that it used to be.

Agreed.

I would GUESS that 'most'
any player manufactured during the last couple of years
would be indistinguishable from each other.

Unless it was mistraking a lot, or something like that. You can get some
pretty odd sounds out of a player that is on the edge of mistracking.
Surprisingly subtle, some times.

I am sure SOMEBODY still sells players with (really cheap) obsolete
first generation DAC chips however.

I very much doubt it, those old first-generation parts from 1983 would be
way too expensive to make today.

DAC chips tend to have a relatively short lifespan in the marketplace -
maybe 3-5 years. Anything you see for sale that is older than that, is
probably NOS.

The last time I dissassembled a very, very cheap DVD player (ca. $35), I
found a Crystal Semiconductor 2-channel DAC chip that was rated at over 90
dB dynamic range, was flat within 0.05 dB or less up to 95% of Nyquist, and
could handle sample rates up to 24/192. IME Crystal Semi parts IME generally
meet spec. I'm sure that it cost the manufacturer less than $1.00.

There was nothing in the audio path that could reasonably be expected to
compromise this level of performance.

The really big change in audio DAC chips occurred in the late 1980s and
early 1990s when the market finished switching over to to sigma-delta
technology.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:20:37 -0500, "mc"
wrote:


"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
. au...

"mc" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD
players?

**Depending on which players, yes.

What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening
test, very rarely.

What kind of differences?

Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the
human ear?

Yes. Virtually all modern CD players are flat within 0.2dB from
20-20,000Hz, have noise floors more than 90dB below peak level, and
have distortion of less than 0.01% across the entire audio band. That
is *way* beyond the ability of the human ear to discriminate.

Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain
'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are
deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the
'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of
course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is
sound quality.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain
'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are
deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the
'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of
course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is
sound quality.

Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type
that the listener has developed a taste for?

Jerohm wrote:

"tai fu" wrote in message
...

Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players?


Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty much always
contributed inconsequentially to the sound - so long that it preforms
according to the way it was intended to.

I have to disagree with you here. There are some CD players who's
transport mechanism is so noisy it brings the system's S/N down below
what you can achieve on vinyl. I'm talking about mechanical noise here,
not the signal that comes out the jack in the back, but really, what
difference does it make? Noise is noise.

Last time I auditioned CD player I listened to them with the stereo
muted - the salesman thought I was crazy, but some were noiser than
others. And some were quite audible even over the music. Esoteric high
end models tended to be the worst offenders.

-Walt

"mc" wrote in message
...
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD
players?

**Depending on which players, yes.

What kind of differences, and are they measurable?

**I've heard and measured frequency response errors, which are well within
the audible range.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"mc" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton"
wrote in message
...
Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound
different are certain 'high end' models, such as from
Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just
so that they will sound different from the 'common
herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of
course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your
criterion is sound quality.

Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some
distortion of a type that the listener has developed a
taste for?

Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept just about any kind
of added distrotion as long as it sounds different and not too gross to
them. SET's are an example of a broad appeal to this kind of mentality.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"mc" wrote i
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound
different are certain 'high end' models, such as from
Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just
so that they will sound different from the 'common
herd'.

Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some
distortion of a type that the listener has developed a
taste for?


Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept just about any kind
of added distrotion as long as it sounds different and not too gross to
them.

What's surprising is that this practice is not more widespread. It's
long been a strategy of speaker manufacturers to add boom and sizzle to
their products, and the boomy sizzly units often outsell their more
accurate components. Why not do it with cd players and receivers too?

If you think of the stereo store showroom floor as a Darwinian system,
"fitness" is not what sounds best but what sells. It's surprising that
CD players haven't "evolved" boosted high- and low- end frequency response.

//Walt

"Walt" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"mc" wrote i
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound
different are certain 'high end' models, such as from
Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*,
just so that they will sound different from the 'common
herd'.

Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some
distortion of a type that the listener has developed a
taste for?


Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept
just about any kind of added distrotion as long as it
sounds different and not too gross to them.

What's surprising is that this practice is not more
widespread. It's long been a strategy of speaker manufacturers to add
boom
and sizzle to their products, and the boomy sizzly units
often outsell their more accurate components. Why not do
it with cd players and receivers too?

Self discipline on the part of most (but not all) manufacturers.


Stewart noted some CD players that have some added sizzle. SET power amps
genearally add boom and sizzle.

If you think of the stereo store showroom floor as a
Darwinian system, "fitness" is not what sounds best but
what sells. It's surprising that CD players haven't "evolved" boosted
high- and low- end
frequency response.

See above.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:56:59 -0500, "mc"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .

Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain
'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are
deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the
'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of
course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is
sound quality.

Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type
that the listener has developed a taste for?

Exactly. As with vinyl, SET amps and horn speakers which all introduce
characteristic distortions, some 'high end' CD players introduce
falling treble response via spline filters, the argument being
superior transient response, while others eliminate the reconstruction
filter for no apparent reason whatever. Both the above approaches
allow large levels of anharmonic false images to fold down from the
supersonic region into the audio baseband.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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mc wrote:

What kind of differences?

Treble splatting.

Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the
human ear?

Asked like that the response is "of course". Define the variable
"measurement" in some way or other and the response gets to be "perhaps"
or "no way".


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
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