[Raymond Koonce]

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Best regards and Happy New Year to all.

Raymond

[Eeyore]

Raymond Koonce wrote:

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Yeah.

He's a moronic jerk.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Raymond Koonce wrote:
Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.


Allen has his theories but he's reinventing the concept of Litz wire,
essentially. Skin effect IMO is the least of one's worries at 20-20K
Hz. Interconnects built like scope cables might make more sense in high
impedance interconnects, but low impedance interconnects make even more
sense and no interconnect is best of all.

A line stage integrated amp with te POWER SUPPLY on a separate chassis
makes more sense than a preamp and a power amp. That way you are only
bringing DC and signal on board. Now some one will squawk this has its
own issues, it does, but different and more soluble ones.

Eh ?

Can you translate that into English ?

Graham

[Raymond Koonce]

Eeyore wrote:


Raymond Koonce wrote:


Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?


Yeah.

He's a moronic jerk.

Graham


I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him
personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments
regarding his use of thin wires and foils.

Raymond

[Eeyore]

Raymond Koonce wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Raymond Koonce wrote:

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Yeah.

He's a moronic jerk.

Graham

I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him
personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments
regarding his use of thin wires and foils.

They're relevant to RF frequencies not audio.

Are you at all familiar with the equations ?

Graham

[robert casey]

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.


A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance
than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very
thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will
break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center
conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each
strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done
to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to
Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the
resistance down.

[Raymond Koonce]

Eeyore wrote:


Raymond Koonce wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

Raymond Koonce wrote:


Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything

from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He

recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Yeah.

He's a moronic jerk.

Graham

I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him
personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments
regarding his use of thin wires and foils.


They're relevant to RF frequencies not audio.

Are you at all familiar with the equations ?

Graham



That's what I've always thought, but Allen's writings contradict that,
hence my original post.

I'm not too "up" on the math, but I do read quite a bit and try to
absorb as much as I can.

BR,

Raymond

[Raymond Koonce]

robert casey wrote:



I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried
any of it as yet.


A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance
than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very
thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will
break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center
conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each
strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done
to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to
Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the
resistance down.

Thnx for your comments Robert. I have usually tried to stay with 22 ga.
stranded for my amp wiring. Teflon seems to be a good insulator from my
experience, but it is a little tedious to strip. I have thought about
wiring an amp with thin magnet wire to see if I could hear a difference.
Given my tin ears, I probably won't.

Best regards and Happy New Ears,

Raymond

[Eeyore]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Raymond Koonce wrote:

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Yeah.

He's a moronic jerk.

Graham

And, as MM said of Frank Sinatra's virility..."And I should know!"

Ludwig,...... you're a moron !

I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but
there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science
too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely
plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding
pseudo-scientific words.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but
there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science
too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely
plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding
pseudo-scientific words.


No, I use nothing but regular old Belden or Packard Cable wire
personally and recommend it to others. I think Steve Lampen is the best
wire man out there and direct to him those who have questions I can't
answer. (He works for Belden).

I'w aware of Steve. He sounds like a good bloke.


I do not endorse Mr. Wright, haven't read him. But there's no reason
to attack him personally if you disagree, unless of course he's a
complete **** such as Allison or perhaps, if you continue on this path,
yourself.

I can happily disregard completely ****witted nonsense but it seems you'd prefer to
lap it up on account of your poor education.

Graham

[Sander deWaal]

Eeyore said:


Ludwig,...... you're a moron !


Bratwig is just being his usual, sweet self.
While the proverbial clock is right twice a day, even Bratwig has his
moments of lucidity.

This isn't one of them, however.


I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but
there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science
too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely
plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding
pseudo-scientific words.


There are exceptions.
I design both solid state and tube amps, and the design goals are in
both cases very different.

My preferred cable for internal wiring is Teflon-coated RG174U, it's
nice to bundle 16 of them together and still be able to put them
through a 1 cm hole ;-)

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[tubegarden]

Raymond Koonce wrote:
robert casey wrote:



I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried
any of it as yet.


A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance
than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very
thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will
break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center
conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each
strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done
to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to
Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the
resistance down.

Thnx for your comments Robert. I have usually tried to stay with 22 ga.
stranded for my amp wiring. Teflon seems to be a good insulator from my
experience, but it is a little tedious to strip. I have thought about
wiring an amp with thin magnet wire to see if I could hear a difference.
Given my tin ears, I probably won't.

Best regards and Happy New Ears,

Raymond


Hi RATs!

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to
in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation.

Of course, it doesn't affect the numbers ... and to those who only hear
with their spreadsheets, it is utter nonsense

Happy New Ears!
Al

[Arny Krueger]

"Raymond Koonce" wrote in message

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook"
wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very*
thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal
amp wiring to speaker wiring.

There's nothing special about small diameter wires. They have higher
resistance than larger diameter wires made of the same material. High
resistance is usualy a bad thing when it comes to cables.

He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils.

Not a uncommon conception. Often a misconception, but not necessarily so.

Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies.

Here is a factual treatment of the subject of skin effect with application
to audio:

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Sc...ect/page1.html

I haven't tried any of it as yet.

Good, then you have not wasted a lot of time or money.

[Arny Krueger]

"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net
Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire
but with each strand with enamel insulation, would be
reasonably durable. That's done to get the skin effect
down, for RF work. But there's little point to Litz wire
in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the
resistance down.

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Sc...ect/page5.html

provides more specifics.

The losses in a cable are the results of a number of factors, skin effect
being just one of them. Inductance can be a stronger effect.

[Eeyore]

tubegarden wrote:

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to

Bwahahahahahahha !

May the good Lord preserve us from fools.

Graham

[Andre Jute]

Raymond Koonce wrote:
Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Best regards and Happy New Year to all.

Raymond

Allen is one of the great originals, a founder member with the Herren
Stein and Ennemoser, and me, of the "you can't know anything about
audio until you hit fifty and start going light on top" club.

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in
a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Allen argues
that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing
the waste through the rest of the diameter.

I imagine that the nighsoil engineers ("one size shovel fits all size
turds and there is nothing but turds in the world") won't understand
this; it goes against their homogenizing instinct.

But Allen's Cable book has wielded more influence with more people --
by a factor of hundreds or thousands -- than will ever hear the names
of the clowns even now denigratiing him in this thread. That must
really burn of Slapdash Kreuger and Poopie Stevenson!

However, in my opinion Allen's most important book is The Preamp
Cookbook; Allen is the guy who popularized current sources for just
about everything throughout the DIY community. In his usual humble
style he doesn't even claim credit, merely to be propagating the
teachings of his own guru.

Allen's a real regular guy. He called me from Germany once and I sighed
in satisfaction because I expected him to help me with some design
problem I was struggling with. Instead, he said, "You wrote a book
about designing cars. So what big tires can I fit to my Opel -- and get
them through the TUV?"

May all your filaments glow brightly, Raymond -- unless of course they
are cold cathode tubes.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Eeyore]

Andre Jute wrote:

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in
a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim.

Is that so Jootikins ?

I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite
?

Graham

[Andre Jute]

The functional illiterate Graham Poopie Stevenson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in
a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim.

Is that so Jootikins ?

I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite
?

You mean "a citation". And the plain Anglo-Saxon "reference" has so
much more hair on its chest.

Here are two references for you to study:

1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars, editions by Batsford,
London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses
the strength of materials in Chapter 5.

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in
the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the
world, except you.

Graham

The next time you are tempted to be snippy, clown, think twice,
remember this moment. You're an embarrassment to real engineers.

Andre Jute
The trouble with Poopie is not what he doesn't know, but what he knows
for certain that isn't true. --- Mark Twain

[Ruud Broens]

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: Eeyore said:
:
:
: Ludwig,...... you're a moron !
:
:
: Bratwig is just being his usual, sweet self.
: While the proverbial clock is right twice a day, even Bratwig has his
: moments of lucidity.
:
: This isn't one of them, however.
:
:
: I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic
but
: there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the
science
: too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely
: plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding
: pseudo-scientific words.
:
:
: There are exceptions.
: I design both solid state and tube amps, and the design goals are in
: both cases very different.
:
: My preferred cable for internal wiring is Teflon-coated RG174U, it's
: nice to bundle 16 of them together and still be able to put them
: through a 1 cm hole ;-)
:
: --
:
: - Maggies are an addiction for life. -

16 RG's bundled, eh ?
aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-)

Rudy
detective

[Sander deWaal]

"Ruud Broens" said:


16 RG's bundled, eh ?
aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-)


Shhhhhhhhh........a man gotta earn his daily bread ;-)


Rudy
detective


Happy new year, we'll be spending it far away from computers and
firecracker noise.

See you in 2007!

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[Arny Krueger]

"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice
to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache
Reclamation.

I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound any different from
lower-cost mainstream materials? No!

Of course, it doesn't affect the numbers ... and to those
who only hear with their spreadsheets, it is utter
nonsense

In this case it is you who are listening with a spreadsheet - a spreadsheet
that lists the bill of materials.

[Arny Krueger]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com
Here are two references for you to study:

1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars,
editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David &
Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of
materials in Chapter 5.

No such title found by Google anyplace on the web.

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred
editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to
every engineer in the world, except you.


A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its
writing.

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote

Here are two references for you to study:

1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars,
editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David &
Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of
materials in Chapter 5.

No such title found by Google anyplace on the web.

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred
editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to
every engineer in the world, except you.


A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its
writing.

Nor has it anything to do with the subject of the thread.

Typical Joot obfuscation.

Graham

[Raymond Koonce]

Andre Jute wrote:

Raymond Koonce wrote:

Hi RATs,

I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he
espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything
from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He
recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin
effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any
of it as yet.

Thoughts, comments?

Best regards and Happy New Year to all.

Raymond


Allen is one of the great originals, a founder member with the Herren
Stein and Ennemoser, and me, of the "you can't know anything about
audio until you hit fifty and start going light on top" club.

Well, I guess I can join now (he says baldly at 53).

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in
a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Allen argues
that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing
the waste through the rest of the diameter.

As he states in his book. I'm afraid the math he uses for his
explanation is beyond me though.


snip

However, in my opinion Allen's most important book is The Preamp
Cookbook; Allen is the guy who popularized current sources for just
about everything throughout the DIY community. In his usual humble
style he doesn't even claim credit, merely to be propagating the
teachings of his own guru.

Agreed. I also just finished reading that one. I plan to play around
with his current source and regulator ideas on the next amp I build. A
huge amount of what he says makes sense.

Allen's a real regular guy. snip

Agreed. I've met him twice, both times at the European Triode Festival,
and I've found him to be a straight-up gentleman. We have discussed one
of his ideas (non-audio related) and he plans to visit me in the US to
see if we can do some business together.


May all your filaments glow brightly, Raymond -- unless of course they
are cold cathode tubes.

Yours as well Andre.

Best regards and Happy New Year.

Raymond

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Arny Krueger]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the
qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section
of the rim.

Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious.

There is a mechanical situation about a rod's shape, such that much of the
applied stress tends to be concentrated near its outside edge. This means
that a tube with a modest wall thickness can be nearly as strong as a rod
with the same diameter.

However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone
far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations.


Allen argues that if you flatten this out
into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through
the rest of the diameter.

What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition
to electronic situations?

I imagine that the nightsoil engineers ("one size shovel
fits all size turds and there is nothing but turds in the
world") won't understand this; it goes against their
homogenizing instinct.

Chidish name-calling and gratuitous fecal references ignored. Consider the
source. ;-)

[robert casey]

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice
to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache
Reclamation.


I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound any different from
lower-cost mainstream materials? No!



Teflon insulation is good for high temperatures. Soldering iron
temperature doesn't melt it. Also teflon won't be bothered by hot tubes.
But teflon does nasty things to copper, so they silver plate the copper
wire to protect the copper. Also silver solders nicely. Silver plated
copper wire would have good skin effect for RF signals, but doesn't mean
much at audio frequencies. However, teflon wire insulation tends to be
thin, and might not be adequate for B+'s in the hundreds of volts.

[Ruud Broens]

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
:
: 16 RG's bundled, eh ?
: aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-)
:
:
: Shhhhhhhhh........a man gotta earn his daily bread ;-)
:
:
: Rudy
: detective
:
:
: Happy new year, we'll be spending it far away from computers and
: firecracker noise.
:
: See you in 2007!
:
: --
:
: - Maggies are an addiction for life. -

Gelijk hebbie ;-)
Best wishes to you, too, RAT's including
l8er
Rudy

[Bob H.]

Hi RATs!

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to
in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation.

I have a couple spools of milspec silver coated solid copper (around 22
guage, I think) and it does indeed sound great. I'm not sure if I paid
$2 per pound or not. I think it was 50 cents a spool.
I've used it on a plethora of stuff.
I don't think it's in teflon, though, probably pvc. It does shrink
with an iron, so not teflon. The cost per sound ratio is still
excellent.
Bob H.

[tubegarden]

Hi Rats!

The stuff I got surplus is thick Teflon, it doesn't cut so much as flow
away from the wiire, so the result of "stripping" with wire cutters is
three strands: Teflon bottom and top and wire in the middle. Then I
snip off the Teflon tails

I don't recall mentioning I think it sounds better the 18 Ga Radio
Shack PVC coated wire. I think it may, but, it isn't something I wish
to argue with the trolls under the bridge. It is good, high temp, HV
(1200V) rated wire in my favorite color, white. It is also soft and
easlily pliable, like butter. I have used it for nearly a decade. A
5000' spool of several ends combined to fill it was about $40. I am not
yet halfway through it, and slowing down annually

Doesn't it seem odd that some people just like to argue and insult, no
matter what the topic?

They are everywhere, but, they don't get invited out to lunch

Could it be that is because ...

Happy Ears!
Al

[Eeyore]

"Bob H." wrote:

Hi RATs!

22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to
in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation.

I have a couple spools of milspec silver coated solid copper (around 22
guage, I think) and it does indeed sound great. I'm not sure if I paid
$2 per pound or not. I think it was 50 cents a spool.
I've used it on a plethora of stuff.
I don't think it's in teflon, though, probably pvc. It does shrink
with an iron, so not teflon. The cost per sound ratio is still
excellent.

So how would you describe the sound compared to 'inferior' wire ?

Graham

[Raymond Koonce]

tubegarden wrote:
Hi Rats!

The stuff I got surplus is thick Teflon, it doesn't cut so much as flow
away from the wiire, so the result of "stripping" with wire cutters is
three strands: Teflon bottom and top and wire in the middle. Then I
snip off the Teflon tails

I don't recall mentioning I think it sounds better the 18 Ga Radio
Shack PVC coated wire. I think it may, but, it isn't something I wish
to argue with the trolls under the bridge. It is good, high temp, HV
(1200V) rated wire in my favorite color, white. It is also soft and
easlily pliable, like butter. I have used it for nearly a decade. A
5000' spool of several ends combined to fill it was about $40. I am not
yet halfway through it, and slowing down annually

Doesn't it seem odd that some people just like to argue and insult, no
matter what the topic?

They are everywhere, but, they don't get invited out to lunch

Could it be that is because ...

Happy Ears!
Al


Hi Al,

It does seem very strange that some folks can turn a perfectly
legitimate thread into a stream of insults. Reminds me of monkeys
throwing **** at each other.

Keep your ears happy, no matter what kind of wire you use.

All the best,

Raymond

[Andre Jute]

Arny "Slapdash" Krueger wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com
Here are two references for you to study:

1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars,
editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David &
Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of
materials in Chapter 5.

No such title found by Google anyplace on the web.

I'm very surprised to hear that, Slapdash. Even after years of pointing
out almost daily that you are an incompetent, I never dreamed you'd be
quite so illiterate and useless that you can't even find a book on
Google.

Google reports 'about 152 for "DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS"
+Jute. (0.41 seconds)':
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...&b tnG=Search

Amazon alone offers 28 references to this book:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100... &btnG=Search

More of my books here for those more literate than Slapdash Krueger and
his organ grinder's monkey, Graham "Poopie" Stevenson; technical and
instructional texts start about halfway down the page:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/T...re%20Jute.html

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred
editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to
every engineer in the world, except you.


A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its
writing.

And the relevance of that is, Krueger? If people could give only
references to books and articles they have written themselves, you
could give none and you'd have to shut up for good. Bring on the day.

Andre Jute
This is the season for exposing heathen hypocrites skulking in the pews.

[Andre Jute]

Eeyore wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote

Here are two references for you to study:

[snip]

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred
editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to
every engineer in the world, except you.

A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its
writing.

Nor has it anything to do with the subject of the thread.

Typical Joot obfuscation.

You must have an attention span deficit, Poopie. It is an answer to a
question you asked me:

*****
Andre Jute wrote:

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in
a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim.

Is that so Jootikins ?

I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite
?

You mean "a citation". And the plain Anglo-Saxon "reference" has so
much more hair on its chest.

Here are two references for you to study:

1. Jute: Designing and Building Special Cars, editions by Batsford,
London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses
the strength of materials in Chapter 5.

2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in
the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the
world, except you.

Graham

The next time you are tempted to be snippy, clown, think twice,
remember this moment. You're an embarrassment to real engineers.

Andre Jute
The trouble with Poopie is not what he doesn't know, but what he knows
for certain that isn't true. --- Mark Twain
********

Can you even remember your name from day to day, Poopie?

Graham

Unsigned out of contempt for a moron.

[Arny Krueger]

"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net
22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice
to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache
Reclamation.


I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound
any different from lower-cost mainstream materials? No!

Teflon insulation is good for high temperatures. Soldering iron
temperature doesn't melt it.

So what? Not bothering wire insulation when soldering it is part of the
skill of soldering.

Also teflon won't be bothered by hot tubes.

Readily addressed by proper lead dress.

But teflon does nasty
things to copper, so they silver plate the copper wire to
protect the copper. Also silver solders nicely.

So does many other common base-metal coatings.

Silver plated copper wire would have good skin effect for RF
signals, but doesn't mean much at audio frequencies.

Right, it doesn't mean much for audio.

However, teflon wire insulation tends to be thin, and
might not be adequate for B+'s in the hundreds of volts.

HV teflon insulated wire is readily available.

[Joseph Meditz]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the
qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section
of the rim.

Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious.

I think you are being hasty in declaring him wrong. He may very well
be alluding to the radius of gyration.


There is a mechanical situation about a rod's shape, such that much of the
applied stress tends to be concentrated near its outside edge. This means
that a tube with a modest wall thickness can be nearly as strong as a rod
with the same diameter.


The moment of intertia gives resistance to bending. Whether the beam
is a solid rod or a hollow tube, if their moments of intertia are the
same, their resistance to bending will be the same. However, they will
have different torsional rigidity with the tube having greater
torsional rigidity and a higher radius of gyration.

(I am not a mechanical engineer. It would be good if a mechancial or
civil engineer chimed in here.)


However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone
far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations.



Allen argues that if you flatten this out
into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through
the rest of the diameter.

What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition
to electronic situations?


Do you not see the relation between this mechanical system and the
transmission of microwaves through a tubular conductor?

I am unfamiliar with Allen's work. Still, I find analogs between
mechanical and electrical systems interesting.

Joe

[Bob H.]

Eeyore wrote:

So how would you describe the sound compared to 'inferior' wire ?

Graham

The gist of my post is that I got great wire at a very cheap price, so
it sounds really great.

The vast majority of wire in tube amps is magnet wire, so what's the
point of debating reasonabley built hookup wire quality, truthfully?
It is a couple of feet at most, for both channels.

Bob H.

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Meditz" wrote in message
ups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of
the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow
section of the rim.

Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well,
homogenious.

However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics
and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical
intuition to electronic situations.

Allen argues that if you flatten this out
into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste
through the rest of the diameter.

What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling
mechanical intuition to electronic situations?

Do you not see the relation between this mechanical
system and the transmission of microwaves through a
tubular conductor?

News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves.

[tubegarden]

Arny Krueger wrote:

News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves.



Hi RATs!

Audio, sweet Audio. The air itself dances and sings and I just lie here
and grin.

The droids measure this and that and declare bankruptcy, daily.

I think I hear a fine piano trio in a good hall playing a piece they
really love.

It ain't arguments we see on this NG, it is simple boredom.

Some of us manage to fool ourselves into being entertained.

Some don't. Screw 'em. Life ain't fair ... Music is for lovers 8*D

Happy Ears!
Al

[Joseph Meditz]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Joseph Meditz" wrote in message
ups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of
the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow
section of the rim.

Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well,
homogenious.

However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics
and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical
intuition to electronic situations.

Allen argues that if you flatten this out
into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste
through the rest of the diameter.

What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling
mechanical intuition to electronic situations?

Do you not see the relation between this mechanical
system and the transmission of microwaves through a
tubular conductor?

" News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not
microwaves."

News flash for you champ: This is a forum about wires.

[Eeyore]

Joseph Meditz wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Joseph Meditz" wrote in message
ups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com

There is a mechanical property of metals that most of
the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow
section of the rim.

Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well,
homogenious.

However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics
and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical
intuition to electronic situations.

Allen argues that if you flatten this out
into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste
through the rest of the diameter.

What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling
mechanical intuition to electronic situations?

Do you not see the relation between this mechanical
system and the transmission of microwaves through a
tubular conductor?

" News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not
microwaves."

News flash for you champ: This is a forum about wires.

And their performance at *audio* frequencies.

Graham