http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...tm?POE=TECISVA

DM

David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...tm?POE=TECISVA

I'm not sure I buy this. If you look at a brand new CD right off the
line, you'll see lots of little pinpricks in there, just due to defects
in the sputtering process.

If air gets to the disc surface, the aluminized layer should turn white,
and opaque, not clear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Air bubbles. Geez, who but someone that works with metals all the time
would have known? I mean, put copper into galvanized steel and you have
corrosion. Aluminium doesn't like the iron in egg yolks, although copper is
ideal for whipping eggs. Even the southwestern native Americans figured out
that you need some carbon with blue corn to produce a food that has some
nutritional benefits (something about the micro-composition of the starch in
the blue corn not being able to become sugars because it's a molecular
mirror atom). How the **** did they figure that out? Drop a blue corn
tortilla into the coals and then eat it anyway? For a thousand years?

But the guys that made the newest techology for storing information couldn't
figure out how to put down a layer of lacquer without getting the ****ing
air bubbles out of it yet. Now if they could atomically build the air
bubble like a bee's octagonal hive, no problem, but I'm not going to give
the idea away! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
.. .
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...tm?POE=TECISVA

DM

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure I buy this. If you look at a brand new CD right off the
line, you'll see lots of little pinpricks in there, just due to defects
in the sputtering process.

If air gets to the disc surface, the aluminized layer should turn white,
and opaque, not clear.

At what, 690 to 760 ns red laser light frequencies you expect to see
microscopic ionization? But it would be enough to throw the reflected light
of lasers off, or the optical readers are too good. Perhaps less stringent
specs on the readers? Perhaps, as even fabricators have come to realize,
you need to REMOVE THE AIR from the lacquer lest it affect the outcome of
the product you're trying to build. Mostly I'm thinking of Polyeurathane
molding, but I believe it could apply here, too because the product is cheap
enough for most people to simply replace.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
play because they have all these pinholes.

Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
to require interpolation.

I could not find an address for the author. Natch.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
play because they have all these pinholes.

Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
to require interpolation.

No, but if there is a steady increase in the number of pinholes as disks
age, it could get to the point where the data loss is significant after some
period of time.

But since most discs ship with pinholes from the factory, the existence of
pinholes should not be an indication of progressive degradation.

I could not find an address for the author. Natch.

will be a start, I suppose.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thu, 6 May 2004 10:24:27 -0700, suggested:
: What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
: play because they have all these pinholes.
:
: Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
: never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
: to require interpolation.

Could be an issue with DVD recordables, though.

--
agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg

andrewunix wrote:
Thu, 6 May 2004 10:24:27 -0700, suggested:
: What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
: play because they have all these pinholes.
:
: Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
: never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
: to require interpolation.

Could be an issue with DVD recordables, though.

I dunno, the dye fading issues are so severe that I doubt any metallization
layer problems will be even a minor issue in comparison.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

But since most discs ship with pinholes from the factory, the existence
of pinholes should not be an indication of progressive degradation.

Correct. Which is another point the article didn't address.

Oxidation does not produce pinholes -- it darkens the aluminum. If the coating
had "really" started to deteriorate, I would expect something worse than
pinholes.

I think the writer was confused by references from years ago about video laserdiscs. "Disc
rot", aka "laser rot", was a term that described a progressive degeneration of disc
reflectivity caused by impurities in the water used in the LD pressing process. Generally took
a few years to show up, a caused "sparklies" in the video, eventually to the point where the
disc is unwatchable. Not at all applicable scenario in CD or DVD manufacture, as far as I
know.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...
andrewunix wrote:
Thu, 6 May 2004 10:24:27 -0700, suggested:
: What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
: play because they have all these pinholes.
:
: Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
: never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
: to require interpolation.

Could be an issue with DVD recordables, though.

I dunno, the dye fading issues are so severe that I doubt any metallization
layer problems will be even a minor issue in comparison.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Stephen Sank wrote:
I think the writer was confused by references from years ago about video laserdiscs. "Disc
rot", aka "laser rot", was a term that described a progressive degeneration of disc
reflectivity caused by impurities in the water used in the LD pressing process. Generally took
a few years to show up, a caused "sparklies" in the video, eventually to the point where the
disc is unwatchable. Not at all applicable scenario in CD or DVD manufacture, as far as I
know.

MIGHT be applicable to double-sided "sandwich" DVDs, which use a similar
cementing process.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ...
What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the disks wouldn't
play because they have all these pinholes.

Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole should
never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't represent enough data loss
to require interpolation.

I could not find an address for the author. Natch.

Well, the author's name is Peter Svensson and he works for
Associated Press.

Headquarters
50 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, N.Y. 10020

Main Number
+1-212-621-1500

According to this page
(http://www.ap.org/pages/contact/contact.html)

"Individual phone numbers and e-mail addresses are not available to
the public." and "For general questions and comments;or to contact a
specific employee: "

According to this page (http://www.ap.org/pages/about/faq.html)

14. How do I contact a reporter or editor?
Send an email to info@ ap.org and it will be forwarded to the
reporter or editor.

So you may not be able to get enough info to make his cell phone
ring at 3 am or stake out his house but you can probably get a message
through to him.

On Thu, 06 May 2004 13:46:51 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
wrote:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...tm?POE=TECISVA

DM



This is a "Readers Digest" type publication? They usually manage to
take a grain of truth and distort it in a panic-raising way :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...tm?POE=TECISVA

DM

Pity he hadn'tchecked them all when new. My guess is they were the same.
The non-playing **disc** may have been for other reason.

geoff

PS My old Dire Straits Communique got the fungus, but that's a different
syndrome I guess.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:
What bothers me about the article is the implied claim that the
disks wouldn't play because they have all these pinholes.

Even a CD with hundreds of pinholes should play correctly. A pinhole
should never be enough to cause mistracking, and it doesn't
represent enough data loss to require interpolation.

No, but if there is a steady increase in the number of pinholes as
disks age, it could get to the point where the data loss is
significant after some period of time.


But there is nothing in the article to suggest an actual increase in
'pinholes', though that was the inference.

geoff