HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD. You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think. Wouldn't hurt to
practice the process anyway - there's several skills to master here.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html

Is an excellent resource for info on this.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message
...
HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD. You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think. Wouldn't hurt to
practice the process anyway - there's several skills to master here.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html

Is an excellent resource for info on this.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message
...
HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD. You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think. Wouldn't hurt to
practice the process anyway - there's several skills to master here.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html

Is an excellent resource for info on this.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message
...
HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think.

Agreed. Nothing to lose but your time. Try and get decent recording
levels: too high and you'll get clipping distortion; too low and the
noise floor of the soundcard might encroach.

If having tried this you conclude that the onboard sound doesn't cut
it, then take a look at soundcards such as (in increasing order of
sound quality): Creative Audigy; Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (if you can
still find one); M-Audio Audiophile 2496. The M-Audio card costs about
$150, and IMHO is more than capable of making completely transparent
recordings from a domestic source.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html
Is an excellent resource for info on this.

Certainly is. May I also put in a brief plug for my own notes at
http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm ?
--
Clive Backham

Note: As a spam avoidance measure, the email address in the header
is just a free one and doesn't get checked very often. If you want to email
me, my real address can be found at: www [dot] delback [dot] co [dot] uk

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think.

Agreed. Nothing to lose but your time. Try and get decent recording
levels: too high and you'll get clipping distortion; too low and the
noise floor of the soundcard might encroach.

If having tried this you conclude that the onboard sound doesn't cut
it, then take a look at soundcards such as (in increasing order of
sound quality): Creative Audigy; Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (if you can
still find one); M-Audio Audiophile 2496. The M-Audio card costs about
$150, and IMHO is more than capable of making completely transparent
recordings from a domestic source.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html
Is an excellent resource for info on this.

Certainly is. May I also put in a brief plug for my own notes at
http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm ?
--
Clive Backham

Note: As a spam avoidance measure, the email address in the header
is just a free one and doesn't get checked very often. If you want to email
me, my real address can be found at: www [dot] delback [dot] co [dot] uk

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should easily be
up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

You might want to try
experimentally recording some WAV files recorded from an album to a CD, then
play that CD on your main system and see what you think.

Agreed. Nothing to lose but your time. Try and get decent recording
levels: too high and you'll get clipping distortion; too low and the
noise floor of the soundcard might encroach.

If having tried this you conclude that the onboard sound doesn't cut
it, then take a look at soundcards such as (in increasing order of
sound quality): Creative Audigy; Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (if you can
still find one); M-Audio Audiophile 2496. The M-Audio card costs about
$150, and IMHO is more than capable of making completely transparent
recordings from a domestic source.

http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html
Is an excellent resource for info on this.

Certainly is. May I also put in a brief plug for my own notes at
http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm ?
--
Clive Backham

Note: As a spam avoidance measure, the email address in the header
is just a free one and doesn't get checked very often. If you want to email
me, my real address can be found at: www [dot] delback [dot] co [dot] uk

Clive Backham wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should
easily be up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

No doubt.

If your on-board sound chip is labelled ADI 1985 or SoundMax, you have a
really strange bird, as these measurements show:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/soundmaxcadenza/

OTOH if you have a Realtek on-board sound chip, then the performance is at
least average:

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/Images/Hu...tek%20AC97.htm

Clive Backham wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should
easily be up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

No doubt.

If your on-board sound chip is labelled ADI 1985 or SoundMax, you have a
really strange bird, as these measurements show:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/soundmaxcadenza/

OTOH if you have a Realtek on-board sound chip, then the performance is at
least average:

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/Images/Hu...tek%20AC97.htm

Clive Backham wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:59:10 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Others may disagree, but I think the on-board sound chips should
easily be up to the task of recording your LP's to CD.

Here's someone who disagrees. Many on-board sound chips are woefully
poor. True, there are some that are reasonably good, but it's a bit
hit-and-miss whether any particular motherboard does the job.

No doubt.

If your on-board sound chip is labelled ADI 1985 or SoundMax, you have a
really strange bird, as these measurements show:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/soundmaxcadenza/

OTOH if you have a Realtek on-board sound chip, then the performance is at
least average:

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/Images/Hu...tek%20AC97.htm

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:57:33 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-) Maybe it's an
older system. And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:57:33 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-) Maybe it's an
older system. And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:57:33 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

HI All

I recently bought myself a new PC (1.7 GHz Celeron) with the intention
of copying (?archiving) some of my old vinyl and cassette tape to CD.

I'm not looking for the ultimate in sound quality - most of my
listening is on the cd player in the car - but reasonably undistorted
(!) sound without too many clicks and hums would be good g

The problem I'm getting is that the PC's on-board audio chips don't
seem up to the recording job - they are identified by Windows as
Avance AC97 - but the same tape heard via headphones through the PC is
very poor in comparison to listening to it via 'phones and a
conventional (cheapo) IC audio amp.

Before I go down a long and expensive route involvng trial & error -
can anybody recommend a sound card that will give me better recording
quality without costing a fortune ?

Many thanks in advance
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-) Maybe it's an
older system. And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

Hi Lawrence



Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

Yes - I'm not looking to do anything particularly 'fancy' - just copy
disk / tape to cd...


How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

I've been trying things with the tape so far - using a half-reasonable
'modular hi-fi' cassette deck, with the line output going to the
soundcard's line in.


Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Maybe it's an
older system.

Quite possibly - but it was within my budget......
It's branded I-friend (supplied by CPC in the UK)

And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

That's a thought - thanks.
I'll give it another try with the cassette deck - it's possible that
the less-than-wonderful results I'm getting are down to the poor
playback on this machine - I'll try burning a couple of tracks to cd
and playing them on a 'real' cd machine.

I did try initially with the old P500 system - but I was getting
'dropouts' (short missing 'chunks' of music) on the finished CD.
Hopefully this new pc should have enough 'horsepower' to keep up with
the recording process. I'm using Audacity to make the recordings.

One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
a test recording to confirm.

Thanks everybody for their comments so far....

Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi Lawrence



Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

Yes - I'm not looking to do anything particularly 'fancy' - just copy
disk / tape to cd...


How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

I've been trying things with the tape so far - using a half-reasonable
'modular hi-fi' cassette deck, with the line output going to the
soundcard's line in.


Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Maybe it's an
older system.

Quite possibly - but it was within my budget......
It's branded I-friend (supplied by CPC in the UK)

And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

That's a thought - thanks.
I'll give it another try with the cassette deck - it's possible that
the less-than-wonderful results I'm getting are down to the poor
playback on this machine - I'll try burning a couple of tracks to cd
and playing them on a 'real' cd machine.

I did try initially with the old P500 system - but I was getting
'dropouts' (short missing 'chunks' of music) on the finished CD.
Hopefully this new pc should have enough 'horsepower' to keep up with
the recording process. I'm using Audacity to make the recordings.

One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
a test recording to confirm.

Thanks everybody for their comments so far....

Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi Lawrence



Onboard sound on today's computers is often very adequate for simple
recording and playback. An AC97 system has limitations, particularly
for musicians who attempt multitrack recording. But you only need
basic functions.

Yes - I'm not looking to do anything particularly 'fancy' - just copy
disk / tape to cd...


How are you getting the sound into the PC? Forget about the mic
input - it's matched to nasty cheap microphones, and even with these
is crap quality. You need to use the Line In port, fed by a line
level source. This will typically be a Tape Out or Aux Out from your
hi-fi amplifier. This amplifier can then take care of providing the
special input required by a record player.

I've been trying things with the tape so far - using a half-reasonable
'modular hi-fi' cassette deck, with the line output going to the
soundcard's line in.


Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Maybe it's an
older system.

Quite possibly - but it was within my budget......
It's branded I-friend (supplied by CPC in the UK)

And I'm afraid on-board sound on el-cheapo systems and
older machines CAN be pretty bad :-( If this is the case, the good
news is you only need to replace it with the cheapest SoundBlaster
Live card. Now discontinued I think, but plenty still around.

That's a thought - thanks.
I'll give it another try with the cassette deck - it's possible that
the less-than-wonderful results I'm getting are down to the poor
playback on this machine - I'll try burning a couple of tracks to cd
and playing them on a 'real' cd machine.

I did try initially with the old P500 system - but I was getting
'dropouts' (short missing 'chunks' of music) on the finished CD.
Hopefully this new pc should have enough 'horsepower' to keep up with
the recording process. I'm using Audacity to make the recordings.

One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
a test recording to confirm.

Thanks everybody for their comments so far....

Adrian
Suffolk UK

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:45:59 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:45:59 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:45:59 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

Adrian Brentnall wrote, inter alia:

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...
--
RdM

Adrian Brentnall wrote, inter alia:

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...
--
RdM

Adrian Brentnall wrote, inter alia:

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...
--
RdM

Hi Lawrence

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

Oh - that's interesting.
I did spend a happy evening (!) with the aid of a couple of websites
that sounded as if they knew what they were up to, going round the old
P500 and turning off 'unnecessary' bits. Amazing how much 'clutter'
there is in a 'standard' win98 SE install.

But, just after I'd done that, my wife's P350 expired - so she ended
up with the P500......

Might be worth seeing if the P350 can be resurrected - it seems to me
that having a dedicated machine (stand-alone) for the audio digitising
would be a good plan - then it could get on with what it was meant to
do without any interruptions....


The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - and see exactly 'why'
the P350 died. I've got enough bits & pieces sitting around here - it
shouldn't be impossible to put a working system together.

Don't suppose anybody ever does sound recording under DOS - I know it
wouldn't be very pretty - but at least there could be fewer
distractions for the processor .......?

Thanks for the thoughts
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi Lawrence

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

Oh - that's interesting.
I did spend a happy evening (!) with the aid of a couple of websites
that sounded as if they knew what they were up to, going round the old
P500 and turning off 'unnecessary' bits. Amazing how much 'clutter'
there is in a 'standard' win98 SE install.

But, just after I'd done that, my wife's P350 expired - so she ended
up with the P500......

Might be worth seeing if the P350 can be resurrected - it seems to me
that having a dedicated machine (stand-alone) for the audio digitising
would be a good plan - then it could get on with what it was meant to
do without any interruptions....


The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - and see exactly 'why'
the P350 died. I've got enough bits & pieces sitting around here - it
shouldn't be impossible to put a working system together.

Don't suppose anybody ever does sound recording under DOS - I know it
wouldn't be very pretty - but at least there could be fewer
distractions for the processor .......?

Thanks for the thoughts
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi Lawrence

Tell us how you're setting things up when recording. Also, tell us
what computer you have. A 1.7MHz Celeron, while more than adequate
for your purposes, isn't exactly cutting-edge :-)

No - but it's a step up from the P500 that I had been running g

Actually, A P500 is also more than adequate for simple recording and
burning a CD. It's only a few years ago that one was the centrepiece
of my music recording system. And before that a P200 was doing
sterling work :-)

Oh - that's interesting.
I did spend a happy evening (!) with the aid of a couple of websites
that sounded as if they knew what they were up to, going round the old
P500 and turning off 'unnecessary' bits. Amazing how much 'clutter'
there is in a 'standard' win98 SE install.

But, just after I'd done that, my wife's P350 expired - so she ended
up with the P500......

Might be worth seeing if the P350 can be resurrected - it seems to me
that having a dedicated machine (stand-alone) for the audio digitising
would be a good plan - then it could get on with what it was meant to
do without any interruptions....


The trick with audio is to (a) get an adequate sound card and (b) make
sure the system can concentrate on the job with no distractions.
This means stopping any inessential background processes and programs,
and not trying to do anything else when the machine is trying to
record music or burn a CD. Pull the plug on your Internet connection
for instance.

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - and see exactly 'why'
the P350 died. I've got enough bits & pieces sitting around here - it
shouldn't be impossible to put a working system together.

Don't suppose anybody ever does sound recording under DOS - I know it
wouldn't be very pretty - but at least there could be fewer
distractions for the processor .......?

Thanks for the thoughts
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

I did check that - they seem to be on different interrupts......
I did have the PC exchanged for a replacement after complaining about
the noise - didn't make any difference at all g


With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...

No.... true!

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - I could probably cobble
together a 'spare' pc for the audio recording project - and then use
the decent soundcard in this box later on to get rid of the
'burble'.....

Off to Ebay!

Thanks
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

I did check that - they seem to be on different interrupts......
I did have the PC exchanged for a replacement after complaining about
the noise - didn't make any difference at all g


With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...

No.... true!

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - I could probably cobble
together a 'spare' pc for the audio recording project - and then use
the decent soundcard in this box later on to get rid of the
'burble'.....

Off to Ebay!

Thanks
Adrian
Suffolk UK

Hi

: One annoying thing about the PC is that there's a 'burbling' sound
: from the onboard audio - also noise when the mouse is moved - but I
: don't know if this is coming out over the recorded audio - need to do
: a test recording to confirm.

From my own extremely elementary forays into this sort of thing so far - your
soundcard may be sharing interrupts with something - maybe the mouse port.

I did check that - they seem to be on different interrupts......
I did have the PC exchanged for a replacement after complaining about
the noise - didn't make any difference at all g


With built-in sound and presumably a mouse port, this may be slightly tricky
to resolve, if my guess is correct, but not impossible. Look in Device Manager
at the Computer Properties and see what interrupt it is on, and what else is.

One PC I had set up to play music seemed fine, until I tried to play files
over a network - the soundcard was on the same interrupt as the network card!
That was solved by removing it and adding back to a different PCI slot.

You might have to research reserving resources, or plug&play options etc.
Just a guess, mind you! Doesn't sound satisfactory as described though...

No.... true!

I think I'll look out for a decent soundcard - I could probably cobble
together a 'spare' pc for the audio recording project - and then use
the decent soundcard in this box later on to get rid of the
'burble'.....

Off to Ebay!

Thanks
Adrian
Suffolk UK

HI all

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitised audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Adrian
Suffolk UK

HI all

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitised audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Adrian
Suffolk UK

HI all

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitised audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Adrian
Suffolk UK

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

HI Amy
Thanks for the comments...
I've replied inline...

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:49:11 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

Sounds good g - great difference between the Santa Cruz and the
on-board audio...


The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Yes - I was surprised that it seems to work without dropouts in the
recorded audio


Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

Nope - the noise is present when the tape source is 'off' - also
present when all mixer inputs are muted. Seems to be a constant
(now)low-level burble - but additional noise occurs when the mouse is
moved. Done all the 'usual' stuff about checking for conflicting
interupts - but can't seem to get rid of it.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

The website I saw suggested that it was better to run the tape output
without dolby and then use software on the PC to clear up any tape
noise - but don't know why that should me any better than applying
dolby during replay at the tape deck...?

On a 'listening test', applying dolby to the replay cuts a fair amount
of 'top' - would you expect that ?


3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

Yes - I guess you're right....


If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

'Spose that's true


If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

I'm using Audacity at the moment....


Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

HI Amy
Thanks for the comments...
I've replied inline...

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:49:11 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

Sounds good g - great difference between the Santa Cruz and the
on-board audio...


The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Yes - I was surprised that it seems to work without dropouts in the
recorded audio


Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

Nope - the noise is present when the tape source is 'off' - also
present when all mixer inputs are muted. Seems to be a constant
(now)low-level burble - but additional noise occurs when the mouse is
moved. Done all the 'usual' stuff about checking for conflicting
interupts - but can't seem to get rid of it.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

The website I saw suggested that it was better to run the tape output
without dolby and then use software on the PC to clear up any tape
noise - but don't know why that should me any better than applying
dolby during replay at the tape deck...?

On a 'listening test', applying dolby to the replay cuts a fair amount
of 'top' - would you expect that ?


3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

Yes - I guess you're right....


If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

'Spose that's true


If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

I'm using Audacity at the moment....


Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

HI Amy
Thanks for the comments...
I've replied inline...

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:49:11 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message

Just a follow-up to my original message - partly to feedback the
successful outcome and also to say a big 'thank you' to all who
responded.

I obtained a second-hand Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (ebay -
where else !g) - and installed it in the 1.7gig Celeron.

Only made one tape-to-cd recording so far - but there were no
'dropouts' in the digitized audio, and background noise was reasonable
- certainly no worse than the original cassette.

A Santa Cruz has about 30 dB more dynamic range than cassette tapes.

Sounds good g - great difference between the Santa Cruz and the
on-board audio...


The other 'positive' is that the PC seemed able to handle the
'recording' process without needing any special configuration (as in
disabling all the other little jobs that WinXP does in its spare
time).

Lucky you.

Yes - I was surprised that it seems to work without dropouts in the
recorded audio


Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind....

1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This novice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

The noise is in the source?

Nope - the noise is present when the tape source is 'off' - also
present when all mixer inputs are muted. Seems to be a constant
(now)low-level burble - but additional noise occurs when the mouse is
moved. Done all the 'usual' stuff about checking for conflicting
interupts - but can't seem to get rid of it.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalization and Dolby. I'm currently
recording with the Dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the Dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the Dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

If the tape was made with Dolby, you should probably play it back with
Dolby.

The website I saw suggested that it was better to run the tape output
without dolby and then use software on the PC to clear up any tape
noise - but don't know why that should me any better than applying
dolby during replay at the tape deck...?

On a 'listening test', applying dolby to the replay cuts a fair amount
of 'top' - would you expect that ?


3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electronic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck. If it's the heads I'm guessing
that I need a 'test / setup tape' to set the head alignment
correctly...

The head gaps in a tape head for each channel are tightly connected to each
other - They are molded into solid block of metal and plastic. Therefore,
the alignment of one channel should match the other channel within a pretty
tight tolerance. Practically speaking, you can't do much about it!

Yes - I guess you're right....


If you don't have a known calibration tape, you don't know if the tapes you
are transcribing were originally made out of balance or what.

'Spose that's true


If you want to work with internal adjustments, you should get a service
manual or other clear description of what the adjustments do, the test
conditions for adjusting them, and the necessary test equipment. Your audio
interface could be part of the equation, because with appropriate software
it can be a good relative voltmeter and frequency response measuring
facility.

If the only difference is a level difference, you can use an audio editor to
match the channels in the digital domain. Audacity and Goldwave are software
that can do this, and you can download either for free.

I'm using Audacity at the moment....


Many thanks for the help so far - we're 90% of the way there - but, as
I want to archive my tape (and, eventually, vinyl, collections to CD
then I'm trying to get it right before I start on the long process of
doing each tape.

Good idea!

Adrian Brentnall wrote in message . ..
(snip)
1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

Be sure to use good screened cable from the tapedeck to the PC and
keep away from mains cable etc. This way you avoid picking up RF
interference and 50hz mains interference.

However if you are only getting this noise thru the PC speakers while
monitoring your input then switch all the other inputs on windows
Volume control to off - especially MIC. You may also consider
reinstalling the audio drivers. I had to do this once. And check your
PC speakers - they could be picking up interference. especially if it
is not affecting recording.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

Often, it comes down to having a bright but hissy signal with dolby
off to a less hissy but duller sound with it on. Depends on the
quality of the machine and tape used in recording. Were your tapes
recorded in Dolby? often, I compromise - example -a normal bias tape
recorded in Dolby but sounds a bit dull when played back in dolby -so
keep dolby off but play it back with CrO2 setting to roll off the high
end a bit.

Personally I find tape transfers like this a nigthmare - beg, borrow
or buy the music on cd or get on a P2P internet connection like e-Mule
and try to find the original music this way for better quality.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck.

The only sure way is to play the cassette you want to transfer in the
sansui deck, with dolby off, and align the tapehead by gently turning
the screw on its left with a non magnetic jewelers screwdriver till
you get the clearest, sharpest sound. When you obtain optimal
alignment, dub the tape to PC. It is painstaking but its the only way
to get top results in reporduction, ie.. by matching the original
alignment used in recording that tape.

good luck, Ben

Adrian Brentnall wrote in message . ..
(snip)
1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

Be sure to use good screened cable from the tapedeck to the PC and
keep away from mains cable etc. This way you avoid picking up RF
interference and 50hz mains interference.

However if you are only getting this noise thru the PC speakers while
monitoring your input then switch all the other inputs on windows
Volume control to off - especially MIC. You may also consider
reinstalling the audio drivers. I had to do this once. And check your
PC speakers - they could be picking up interference. especially if it
is not affecting recording.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

Often, it comes down to having a bright but hissy signal with dolby
off to a less hissy but duller sound with it on. Depends on the
quality of the machine and tape used in recording. Were your tapes
recorded in Dolby? often, I compromise - example -a normal bias tape
recorded in Dolby but sounds a bit dull when played back in dolby -so
keep dolby off but play it back with CrO2 setting to roll off the high
end a bit.

Personally I find tape transfers like this a nigthmare - beg, borrow
or buy the music on cd or get on a P2P internet connection like e-Mule
and try to find the original music this way for better quality.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck.

The only sure way is to play the cassette you want to transfer in the
sansui deck, with dolby off, and align the tapehead by gently turning
the screw on its left with a non magnetic jewelers screwdriver till
you get the clearest, sharpest sound. When you obtain optimal
alignment, dub the tape to PC. It is painstaking but its the only way
to get top results in reporduction, ie.. by matching the original
alignment used in recording that tape.

good luck, Ben

Adrian Brentnall wrote in message . ..
(snip)
1) There's still the original background noise on audio playback on
this PC - but it doesn't appear on the final CD, so it's not a big
worry. This noice was present with the original naff on-board sound -
so I'm wondering how both sound systems can show the same problem...?

Be sure to use good screened cable from the tapedeck to the PC and
keep away from mains cable etc. This way you avoid picking up RF
interference and 50hz mains interference.

However if you are only getting this noise thru the PC speakers while
monitoring your input then switch all the other inputs on windows
Volume control to off - especially MIC. You may also consider
reinstalling the audio drivers. I had to do this once. And check your
PC speakers - they could be picking up interference. especially if it
is not affecting recording.

2) The (reasonably good Sansui D-90) cassette deck that I'm using to
record from has buttons for bias equalisation and dolby. I'm currently
recording with the dolby switched 'off'. Presumably with the dolby
'on' I'd hear a reduction in background hiss. One website I was
advised against using the dolby NR in this situation - any comments /
ideas ?

Often, it comes down to having a bright but hissy signal with dolby
off to a less hissy but duller sound with it on. Depends on the
quality of the machine and tape used in recording. Were your tapes
recorded in Dolby? often, I compromise - example -a normal bias tape
recorded in Dolby but sounds a bit dull when played back in dolby -so
keep dolby off but play it back with CrO2 setting to roll off the high
end a bit.

Personally I find tape transfers like this a nigthmare - beg, borrow
or buy the music on cd or get on a P2P internet connection like e-Mule
and try to find the original music this way for better quality.

3) The sound levels as shown on the decks own VU meters and the record
level meters on the PC software show that the left channel is about
3db lower (on average) than the right channel. I don't have a
calibrated set-up tape. When this deck came my way the heads were
badly 'gunged' - and it took a couple of applications of head cleaner
to clear them. Is this 'imbalance' more likely to be as a result of
mechanical misalignment of the tape head - or of an electonic
'out-of-adjustment' inside the deck.

The only sure way is to play the cassette you want to transfer in the
sansui deck, with dolby off, and align the tapehead by gently turning
the screw on its left with a non magnetic jewelers screwdriver till
you get the clearest, sharpest sound. When you obtain optimal
alignment, dub the tape to PC. It is painstaking but its the only way
to get top results in reporduction, ie.. by matching the original
alignment used in recording that tape.

good luck, Ben