"anthony.gosnell" wrote:

"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote
You're not a guitar player, are you?

Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist
sets his amplifier's gain control.

If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much
better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before
the output valves.

Anthony Gosnell

While that sounds like a great thing in theory ( and essentially provided the
business model for Mesa Boogie amplifiers ), it is not exactly
the same thing. This is why people buy and use Fender Champs for
recording.

--
Les Cargill

In article writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

anthony.gosnell wrote:

If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much
better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before
the output valves.

I don't like the sound of an overloaded preamp. I like the sound of
power tubes distorting, output transformers saturating, and speaker
coils overheating. And I like the sound of guitar strings being moved
by pressure waves in the air.

ulysses

anthony.gosnell wrote:

If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much
better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before
the output valves.

I don't like the sound of an overloaded preamp. I like the sound of
power tubes distorting, output transformers saturating, and speaker
coils overheating. And I like the sound of guitar strings being moved
by pressure waves in the air.

ulysses

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous
tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or
speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that
group who are sensitive to SPL use ... sealed cabs to pull down SPL while
givng the amp something to wrestle with.

Hank, do you know some stuff about this that you would like to
elaborate on? How do sealed cabinets pull down SPL? And how do they
give the amp something to wrestle with? Are you talking about some
complex air pressure speaker damping impedance issue I don't
understand? Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

ulysses

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous
tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or
speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that
group who are sensitive to SPL use ... sealed cabs to pull down SPL while
givng the amp something to wrestle with.

Hank, do you know some stuff about this that you would like to
elaborate on? How do sealed cabinets pull down SPL? And how do they
give the amp something to wrestle with? Are you talking about some
complex air pressure speaker damping impedance issue I don't
understand? Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

ulysses

writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

Mike Rivers wrote:

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.

No, guitar players don't do that. They might run effects or preamps in
"sequence" (series), or run multiple input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.


ulysses

writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

Mike Rivers wrote:

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.

No, guitar players don't do that. They might run effects or preamps in
"sequence" (series), or run multiple input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.


ulysses

In article ,
says...
writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

Mike Rivers wrote:

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.

No, guitar players don't do that. They might run effects or preamps in
"sequence" (series), or run multiple input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.

Eddie van halen.


--
/ Peter Kaersaa

In article ,
says...
writes:

Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.

Mike Rivers wrote:

That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.

No, guitar players don't do that. They might run effects or preamps in
"sequence" (series), or run multiple input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.

Eddie van halen.


--
/ Peter Kaersaa

Peter Kaersaa wrote:

Eddie van halen.

Oh, yeah, but that was just a little Pignose or Marshall solid-state
practice amp. My dad used to do that too, now that I think about it.
I can't imagine doing it with the full output of a real power amp
though.

ulysses

Peter Kaersaa wrote:

Eddie van halen.

Oh, yeah, but that was just a little Pignose or Marshall solid-state
practice amp. My dad used to do that too, now that I think about it.
I can't imagine doing it with the full output of a real power amp
though.

ulysses

From: Justin Ulysses Morse

input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.

"Cascading" Old, old fuzzy memory of playing front for some "famous" (briefly)
band, 196?, they used Standell amps and the lead guitar player did seem to be
cascading, resulting in a super-distorted sound. As I remember, *he* and the
rest of the band were pretty distorted, too.

Lonnie Mack, per report, used to do something with two Bandmasters and a little
Magnatone, didn't get to actually see that setup. "Very loud" according to
witnesses. --TP

From: Justin Ulysses Morse

input channels in parallel, but
I've never heard of anybody plugging their guitar amp's speaker output
into the instrument input of another guitar amp.

"Cascading" Old, old fuzzy memory of playing front for some "famous" (briefly)
band, 196?, they used Standell amps and the lead guitar player did seem to be
cascading, resulting in a super-distorted sound. As I remember, *he* and the
rest of the band were pretty distorted, too.

Lonnie Mack, per report, used to do something with two Bandmasters and a little
Magnatone, didn't get to actually see that setup. "Very loud" according to
witnesses. --TP

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous
tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or
speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that
group who are sensitive to SPL use ... sealed cabs to pull down SPL while
givng the amp something to wrestle with.

Hank, do you know some stuff about this that you would like to
elaborate on? How do sealed cabinets pull down SPL? And how do they
give the amp something to wrestle with? Are you talking about some
complex air pressure speaker damping impedance issue I don't
understand?

"Infinite baffle" or sealed cabinets are less efficient than ported,
open back or otherwise vented cabinets. So back in the AWHQ daze I used
Strat Alembic F2B McIntosh MC75 tuber sealed marine plywood
version of a 2 x 12" Bassman cab. I could drive the amp at a higher
level without getting SPL I didn't want compared to using an open back
or ported version of the same style of cabinet, all of which we had
lying around the studio.

Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

Right, the infinte baffle thing keeps the notes looking for a home they
will never find in this lifetime. Sad, really.

--
ha

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous
tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or
speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that
group who are sensitive to SPL use ... sealed cabs to pull down SPL while
givng the amp something to wrestle with.

Hank, do you know some stuff about this that you would like to
elaborate on? How do sealed cabinets pull down SPL? And how do they
give the amp something to wrestle with? Are you talking about some
complex air pressure speaker damping impedance issue I don't
understand?

"Infinite baffle" or sealed cabinets are less efficient than ported,
open back or otherwise vented cabinets. So back in the AWHQ daze I used
Strat Alembic F2B McIntosh MC75 tuber sealed marine plywood
version of a 2 x 12" Bassman cab. I could drive the amp at a higher
level without getting SPL I didn't want compared to using an open back
or ported version of the same style of cabinet, all of which we had
lying around the studio.

Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

Right, the infinte baffle thing keeps the notes looking for a home they
will never find in this lifetime. Sad, really.

--
ha

"Free-form guitar" from Chicago's first album. Something like a Bogen
Challenger into another amp.


Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.


That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

"Free-form guitar" from Chicago's first album. Something like a Bogen
Challenger into another amp.


Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about
taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd
amp. That wouldn't be cool.


That would be "in sequence" rather than "in series." But don't guitar
players do that a lot? Makes the distortion louder and more distorted
at the same time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

"Infinite baffle" or sealed cabinets are less efficient than ported,
open back or otherwise vented cabinets. So back in the AWHQ daze I used
Strat Alembic F2B McIntosh MC75 tuber sealed marine plywood
version of a 2 x 12" Bassman cab. I could drive the amp at a higher
level without getting SPL I didn't want compared to using an open back
or ported version of the same style of cabinet, all of which we had
lying around the studio.

Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

Right, the infinte baffle thing keeps the notes looking for a home they
will never find in this lifetime. Sad, really.

Thanks for the explanation, Hank. But since the difference between a
sealed-back cabinet and an open-back cabinet is probably comparable to
the difference between a lot of amps on "4" and "6" didn't this
compromise your tone just as much as simply turning the amp down?
Unless the sealed-cab sound happens to be what you were after anyway.
If it's not, then I don't see this solution being too helpful. I
haven't really decided yet whether I prefer open or closed guitar
cabinets (or poorly-closed Bassman cabs), but I like my sealed Ampex
4x10 bass cabinet a hell of a lot better than my old ported 2x10
cabinet that was otherwise almost identical.


ulysses

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

"Infinite baffle" or sealed cabinets are less efficient than ported,
open back or otherwise vented cabinets. So back in the AWHQ daze I used
Strat Alembic F2B McIntosh MC75 tuber sealed marine plywood
version of a 2 x 12" Bassman cab. I could drive the amp at a higher
level without getting SPL I didn't want compared to using an open back
or ported version of the same style of cabinet, all of which we had
lying around the studio.

Or do you just mean that the notes don't slip out the back
door and into a nearby microphone?

Right, the infinte baffle thing keeps the notes looking for a home they
will never find in this lifetime. Sad, really.

Thanks for the explanation, Hank. But since the difference between a
sealed-back cabinet and an open-back cabinet is probably comparable to
the difference between a lot of amps on "4" and "6" didn't this
compromise your tone just as much as simply turning the amp down?
Unless the sealed-cab sound happens to be what you were after anyway.
If it's not, then I don't see this solution being too helpful. I
haven't really decided yet whether I prefer open or closed guitar
cabinets (or poorly-closed Bassman cabs), but I like my sealed Ampex
4x10 bass cabinet a hell of a lot better than my old ported 2x10
cabinet that was otherwise almost identical.


ulysses

In article ,
says...
Peter Kaersaa wrote:

Eddie van halen.

Oh, yeah, but that was just a little Pignose or Marshall solid-state
practice amp. My dad used to do that too, now that I think about it.
I can't imagine doing it with the full output of a real power amp
though.

ulysses


No a 100W marshall JCM into two 400w poweramps.


--
/ Peter Kaersaa

In article ,
says...
Peter Kaersaa wrote:

Eddie van halen.

Oh, yeah, but that was just a little Pignose or Marshall solid-state
practice amp. My dad used to do that too, now that I think about it.
I can't imagine doing it with the full output of a real power amp
though.

ulysses


No a 100W marshall JCM into two 400w poweramps.


--
/ Peter Kaersaa