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#1
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any pros try exotic XLRs?
Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino
Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? |
#2
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"Buster Mudd" wrote ... Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? I've never encountered either of them, but the Bocchino web page has several "snake-oil" indicators IMHO. OTOH, The Furutech just looks like a more "industrial strength" version. No subjective claims about "better dynamic range, quieter background noise", "very fast and crisp transients", etc. Didn't see any pricing, though. If they want $500 each for them, that would be one of my snake-oil indicators. |
#3
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The Bocctech site seems to be down right now. What's wrong with regular
old Neutrik connectors? I haven't used Neutriks in high moisture or outdoor situations, so maybe you can find a less corrosive-prone metal than the Neutrik stuff, but Neutrik may resist corrosion just fine AFAIK; I've only used them in relatively climate controlled conditions. What are the prices on these connectors? Are the solderless or anything fancy? Cheers, Trevor de Clercq Buster Mudd wrote: Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? |
#4
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Trevor de Clercq wrote: The Bocctech site seems to be down right now. What's wrong with regular old Neutrik connectors? I haven't used Neutriks in high moisture or outdoor situations, so maybe you can find a less corrosive-prone metal than the Neutrik stuff, but Neutrik may resist corrosion just fine AFAIK; I've only used them in relatively climate controlled conditions. What are the prices on these connectors? Are the solderless or anything fancy? Cheers, Trevor de Clercq Buster Mudd wrote: Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? I've been using Switchcraft and Neutrik connectors for a very long time in many environments. Both hold up well to the elements when treated well to begin with; by that I mean, not letting them stay wet, not allowing dirt to build up and get inside the connector, stuff like that. I take care of my cables because they can (and have) last(ed) for decades of use when treated well. I've built cables to that effect, some reaching back nearly twenty years with Switchcraft connectors. A regular cleaning of oxidation is also recommended on the pins if they aren't gold plated (which would still require occasional cleaning as well). Tried and true is how I work. Exotic isn't always and "new and improved" is hardly ever the case where connectors are concerned. --fletch |
#5
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Buster Mudd wrote:
Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? The whole point of the XLR connector is that it has such an enormously large surface are that you don't NEED stuff like this. Many of the expensive RCA connectors aren't snake oil, because the RCA is such a crappy design that it actually takes some engineering to get a reasonable contact area with them. This is made worse by the cheesy high-Z unbalanced interfaces consumer audio systems use. In the pro audio world, all of that stuff is severely minimized. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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More brag and hype!!
Any old XLR connector, as long as its pins or receptacles are not badly tarnished or coated, will conduct a milliwatt or so. And Phantom current rarely exceeds 3mA. All this fuss and inflated sales talk for a utility thing to join A to B. Stay with Cannon, S/Craft, Cliff or Neutrik or similar: they have been going donkeys' years. Have you *ever* considered that the most perfect concentric or radial-positioned three- or four-pole connector, using untapered pins with a pre-requisite air gap to prevent collision and to ease mating, should actually fail to connect when on target, or should arc at least!!! Best 100% reliability connectors for me are the lockable multipole Varicon/Edac type with slotted blades where each cross-mate is done positively from 8 touching gold-plated interleaves. I have used thousands on pro jobs. Pity there is not AFAIK an XLR-sized format using such integrity. |
#7
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"Buster Mudd" wrote in message
ups.com Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? It's obviously snake oil. The XLR basic design is so good and bullet-proof that the more interesting question is how much it can be cheaped-down from the standard products (Switchcraft, Neutrik) before further cheapening causes problems. The answer seems to be: It can be cheapened quite a bit, not an infinite amount. Given the competitive pricing of the standard XLR products, the idea of cheapening them down further is really pretty strange. |
#8
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#9
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Trevor de Clercq wrote: The Bocctech site seems to be down right now. What's wrong with regular old Neutrik connectors? I haven't used Neutriks in high moisture or outdoor situations, so maybe you can find a less corrosive-prone metal than the Neutrik stuff, but Neutrik may resist corrosion just fine AFAIK; I've only used them in relatively climate controlled conditions. What are the prices on these connectors? Are the solderless or anything fancy? Sweet jesus, the Furutech is $55 each for gold, or $75 each for Rhodium. The BAXLR is $100 each! BTW, for high moisture environments I've been real happy w/ the Neutrik NC3*XHD-B. $6 each. |
#10
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110552711k@trad In article writes: The XLR basic design is so good and bullet-proof that the more interesting question is how much it can be cheaped-down from the standard products (Switchcraft, Neutrik) before further cheapening causes problems. The answer seems to be: It can be cheapened quite a bit, not an infinite amount. It seems that the difference between cheap and more expensive XLRs is in ease of soldering, assembly, and method of strain relief. Yeah Neutrik! However there are some pretty fair clones of Neutrik designs that are around. A lot of folks around here seem to be in love with the Neutrik but I'm sticking with Switchcraft, at least until I encounter one that I don't like more than I don't like the Neutrik. I've had problems resulting from leads broken inside an XLR shell. I generally blame myself for that - proper stress relief is still up to the user, to some degree. male cable connectors whose shell has been stepped on too hard and is no longer round enough to go into a socket, Not having to deal with roadie-proofing, I've never had the problem. and an occasional chassis mounted connector that's been abused to the point where the insert is loose in the shell. Seen that happen to the "good" ones. Nothing is totally abuse-proof, and chassis mounting seems to facilitate it. But I've never had a problem with an XLR that didn't make good contact, and that's really all it has to do. I have. Mate a good but connector with a loose-fitting too-cheap mate, and you're there. Part of what you get for the money is a tighter fit, but still no sticking. Given the competitive pricing of the standard XLR products, the idea of cheapening them down further is really pretty strange. Pricing of quality connectors is competitive if you buy them in the right place. Yes. Radio Shack wants more for cheap (admittedly usually fair-enough) clones than Markertek wants for the real thing. But a guitar store prefers to stock lower quality XLRs, blister packed, for about the same price as you can buy a Neutrik or Switchcraft from Markertek if you buy then ten at a time. Never saw it but I'll take your word for it. And to cable assembly manufacturers, it makes a big difference. I've used some cheap cables and they are all over the map. Musician's Friend outright gave me some Nady cables that seemed to want to break their inner conductors at the solder joints. The hassle they caused more than offset the low, low price. However once fixed they stayed fixed. Strange. OTOH, after about 9 months on stage, some cheapies from Orange County Speaker seem to be holding together pretty well. Saving a couple of dollars retail cost is attractive to people who figure a cable is a cable and they'll never have to fix it (or when it goes bad, they'll eventually throw it away after being in denial for a while). If you've got a complex setup, or do live sound, the cost of a broken cable in terms of lost work, hassle and potential embarassment can offset any possible cost savings. |
#11
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On 3/11/05 12:07 PM, in article znr1110552711k@trad, "Mike Rivers"
wrote: It seems that the difference between cheap and more expensive XLRs is in ease of soldering, assembly, and method of strain relief. A lot of folks around here seem to be in love with the Neutrik but I'm sticking with Switchcraft, at least until I encounter one that I don't like more than I don't like the Neutrik. I was very dissapointed when I ordered a set of right-angle A3F connectors from CONQUEST and specifically asked for the same-price Switchcrafts over their default Neutriks. My eyebrows ht the ceiling when I realised (AFTER a phone call to Conquest and one to S'craft, assuming parts had been left out) that the S'craft model HAS NO STRAIN RELIF beyond the solder-pole cable crimp. The SHELL extension is there but there's NOTHING IN IT. They were happy to take them back and send me the Neutriks which indeed have the additional pressure-ring compression grip around the tail of the connector shell. Stunned... |
#12
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"Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? How much is $745 Australian? If this the price of 4 connectors, I would have to assume we're in snake oil territory. |
#13
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Arny Krueger wrote:
The XLR basic design is so good and bullet-proof that the more interesting question is how much it can be cheaped-down from the standard products (Switchcraft, Neutrik) before further cheapening causes problems. The answer seems to be: It can be cheapened quite a bit, not an infinite amount. Given the competitive pricing of the standard XLR products, the idea of cheapening them down further is really pretty strange. Well...I bought some cheap generics that were Switchcraft style---seemed to be solidly made and all---but the barrels were too thick. I had trouble getting the males into females on the back of rackmount gear where you have an outside lip going over the barrel. Rob R. |
#14
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wrote in message
"Buster Mudd" wrote in message ups.com... Anyone have any experience with exotic XLR connectors like the Bocchino Audio BAXLR (http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm) or the Furutech FP-602 (http://www.furutech.com/new1/produ_2...Cache=9007.593) ? I'm specifically curious about professional engineers using these in pro audio applications. Are there *any* merits to these designs that would make them superior to a typical Neutrik or Switchcraft connector? Or is this just more fodder for the recent Snake-Oil thread? How much is $745 Australian? Exchange is 1 $Au = $0.79 USD If this the price of 4 connectors, I would have to assume we're in snake oil territory. Roger! |
#16
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Arny Krueger wrote:
Radio Shack wants more for cheap (admittedly usually fair-enough) clones than Markertek wants for the real thing. Last year in Austin TX I had need for a few banana plugs and bought some ITT-Pomona lookalikes from RS. The metalurgy is not up to the originals. The steel in the plug tips is too stiff and will obviously fail if applied in a pro setting where daily plug/unplug cycles occur. And yes, they weren't inexpensive, either, even if they were cheaply made. -- ha |
#17
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hank alrich wrote:
Last year in Austin TX I had need for a few banana plugs and bought some ITT-Pomona lookalikes from RS. The metalurgy is not up to the originals. The steel in the plug tips is too stiff and will obviously fail if applied in a pro setting where daily plug/unplug cycles occur. And if you want industrial-strength bananas, take a nod from Kimber and try this: Rip the plastic completely off a Pomona plug, leaving just the metal innards. Remove the setscrew. Tin your 12 ga. or 10 ga. wire, insert into the back of the plug instead of the side. Heat the whole thing with a 40-50W iron and solder it up like a giant solder cup. Heatshrink over the body and cable end with 3:1 glue-lined heatshrink. IME these outlast any other solution, certainly at the price. |
#18
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In article , Kurt Albershardt
wrote: hank alrich wrote: Last year in Austin TX I had need for a few banana plugs and bought some ITT-Pomona lookalikes from RS. The metalurgy is not up to the originals. The steel in the plug tips is too stiff and will obviously fail if applied in a pro setting where daily plug/unplug cycles occur. And if you want industrial-strength bananas, take a nod from Kimber and try this: Rip the plastic completely off a Pomona plug, leaving just the metal innards. Remove the setscrew. Tin your 12 ga. or 10 ga. wire, insert into the back of the plug instead of the side. Heat the whole thing with a 40-50W iron and solder it up like a giant solder cup. Heatshrink over the body and cable end with 3:1 glue-lined heatshrink. IME these outlast any other solution, certainly at the price. Do be sure to heat the plug very well and be sure the solder flows. I've had a couple of these develop cold joints, but generally they are pretty reliable. I use the ones without a set screw, where the plastic shell clamps down on the wire through the side of the plug. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x |
#19
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"Jay Kadis" wrote in message news:jay- Do be sure to heat the plug very well and be sure the solder flows. I've had a couple of these develop cold joints, but generally they are pretty reliable. I use the ones without a set screw, where the plastic shell clamps down on the wire through the side of the plug. At work we distribute the Tasker range. At first I didn't like these, as it seemed the solder-cup contacts were 'solder-proof'. Then I discovered that if you crank the iron temp a bit, like really hot , 450` or whatever, they solder just fine. And the plastic body-filler seems impervious to the etra heat. geoff |
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