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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
Hi!
I hope you can help me find an answer to my question. I own three Sony D8 DAT portables. Two of them (almost simultaneously) now refuse to load DAT tapes. The machines whirs away for a few seconds, the display blinks completely off and then the counter shows 0000 but the tape is not loaded. The machines will now not even load a cleaning tape. The same tapes that the two sick D8's barf on play in the rarely used third backup recorder and a standalone machine as well, so it's not likely to be a tape problem. I read that these units only have a 500 hour head life. Is that correct? Is that the possible problem? Any pointers or advice or places to ask this question would be much appreciated. How much does it cost to replace the heads? Are their sensors for loading that might be occluded with dust? Are there any known problems with units that would be causing this? Thanks! Eric |
#2
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:05:55 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote
(in message ): I hope you can help me find an answer to my question. I own three Sony D8 DAT portables. Two of them (almost simultaneously) now refuse to load DAT tapes. The machines whirs away for a few seconds, the display blinks completely off and then the counter shows 0000 but the tape is not loaded. The machines will now not even load a cleaning tape. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- This sounds like either a major logic problem (possible, but unlikely) or a transport problem (very probable). But the entire D7/D8/D100 portable line is fragile and very, very difficult to take apart, let alone repair. The much larger TCD-D10 (and the improved Series II version) is much easier to service, but is still mechanically quite complex. It's not a job for the faint-of-heart. The same tapes that the two sick D8's barf on play in the rarely used third backup recorder and a standalone machine as well, so it's not likely to be a tape problem. I read that these units only have a 500 hour head life. Is that correct? Is that the possible problem? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- My advice would be to get a service manual from he Sony National Parts Center 8281 NW 107th Terrace P.O. Box 20407 Kansas City, MO 64153 (800) 488-SONY / 7669 (816) 891-7550 http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/service/homepage.htm and see what the manual for your D8 says. 500 hours sounds incredibly low to me; my memory of my own D7 is around 2000 hours, but I might be wrong. My other advice is NOT to play back tapes on these machines, ever. You're much better off playing back DAT tapes on heavy-duty DAT studio decks (or the higher-end Sony ES consumer decks), because the mechanical reliability is better and the head-drum size is larger, and the interchange is better on the non-portable machines. I also find they're gentler on tapes and handle them much better than the portables. My philosophy is, just use the portable machines for recording only. I don't even rewind in them, ever. Sony's 7000-series decks are particularly good in my experience (7010, 7030, 7040, etc.) for playback. They'll play back a wide range of tapes without muting or screwing up, far better than the more commonly-seen Tascam or Panasonic DAT decks. I've seen the Sony's go recently on eBay for anywhere from $500-$1500, depending on condition. Any pointers or advice or places to ask this question would be much appreciated. How much does it cost to replace the heads? Are their sensors for loading that might be occluded with dust? Are there any known problems with units that would be causing this? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- Maybe not dust per se, but I bet the loading arm might need lubrication. My memory is that the lube they specify for portables (cassettes and DAT) is very specialized, and you can't just spray on any old lube and expect it to work. Use what the service manual advises. The last time I took apart a D7, I remember it was a combination of direct-drive motors AND belts -- I think belts for loading/unloading and shuttling. It could well be there's a slipped belt in one of the units, but I barely got my deck back together again once I dismantled it. I seem to recall it took an hour to disassemble, and about 4 hours to put back together -- and that was with the service manual! You could try asking for advice on the DAT heads mailing list: http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/dat-heads And another good place for fixing DAT decks is Manhattan Sound, at: http://www.tangible-technology.com/ The alternative would be to send it directly to Sony service, but I don't know what the parts situations is on the D8's these days. (Probably not good.) The last time I sent a D7 in for alignment, I think Sony had a fixed price of about $120 plus parts -- same price for cleaning/alignment as for head replacement. I think heads were maybe $250 or so. Sad thing is, you can buy a used D8 for about that off eBay. --MFW |
#3
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
Eric Wolfe wrote:
I hope you can help me find an answer to my question. I own three Sony D8 DAT portables. Two of them (almost simultaneously) now refuse to load DAT tapes. The machines whirs away for a few seconds, the display blinks completely off and then the counter shows 0000 but the tape is not loaded. The machines will now not even load a cleaning tape. This is one of the MANY standard D-8 transport problems. The same tapes that the two sick D8's barf on play in the rarely used third backup recorder and a standalone machine as well, so it's not likely to be a tape problem. I read that these units only have a 500 hour head life. Is that correct? Is that the possible problem? No, when that happens, they start making all sorts of horrible noises, but the transports are okay. Any pointers or advice or places to ask this question would be much appreciated. How much does it cost to replace the heads? Are their sensors for loading that might be occluded with dust? Are there any known problems with units that would be causing this? There are sensors that go bad, a transport control chip that goes bad, all kinds of rubber parts that go bad. The list of known transport problems on these decks goes on for pages and pages. You don't replace the heads on them... in general, any of the half-size head drum machines are cheaper to replace than the head drums on them. I honestly don't know anyone that will still work on those things, although if you're willing to risk the Oade brothers, they probably will. You might try asking on the DAT-Heads mailing list. It is theoretically possible to get Sony to actually repair things, but it is not easy and usually requires several trips to service and a couple letters to Japan. But it can be done and I know some people who have succeeded in getting machines actually repaired by the Consumer division. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... Eric Wolfe wrote: I hope you can help me find an answer to my question. I own three Sony D8 DAT portables. Two of them (almost simultaneously) now refuse to load DAT tapes. The machines whirs away for a few seconds, the display blinks completely off and then the counter shows 0000 but the tape is not loaded. The machines will now not even load a cleaning tape. This is one of the MANY standard D-8 transport problems. frown The same tapes that the two sick D8's barf on play in the rarely used third backup recorder and a standalone machine as well, so it's not likely to be a tape problem. I read that these units only have a 500 hour head life. Is that correct? Is that the possible problem? No, when that happens, they start making all sorts of horrible noises, but the transports are okay. Well, it's not that - but they are getting pretty old. I suppose I got my money's worth out of them considering. The question is - what to do now? Replace them with something newer or invest money in looking to get them to fixed. Any pointers or advice or places to ask this question would be much appreciated. How much does it cost to replace the heads? Are their sensors for loading that might be occluded with dust? Are there any known problems with units that would be causing this? There are sensors that go bad, a transport control chip that goes bad, all kinds of rubber parts that go bad. The list of known transport problems on these decks goes on for pages and pages. I looked at the rubber feet on the bottom of the units and the alligatoring I saw make me conclude that there was similarly decaying rubber in guts. You don't replace the heads on them... in general, any of the half-size head drum machines are cheaper to replace than the head drums on them. I was afraid of that. Just like handicams. I honestly don't know anyone that will still work on those things, although if you're willing to risk the Oade brothers, they probably will. You might try asking on the DAT-Heads mailing list. These guys? www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ It is theoretically possible to get Sony to actually repair things, but it is not easy and usually requires several trips to service and a couple letters to Japan. But it can be done and I know some people who have succeeded in getting machines actually repaired by the Consumer division. That's a possibility. They are very useful for long speech recordings without tape changes. I'd hate to work without them but I assume there's better stuff on the market now. I just haven't looked in a while. Thanks for your input. Eric |
#6
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1068816609k@trad... In article writes: - but they are getting pretty old. I suppose I got my money's worth out of them considering. The question is - what to do now? Replace them with something newer or invest money in looking to get them to fixed. This is a sticky question right now. I'm waiting it out. I have my Nomad Jukebox 3 and I can get by with that, but it's no substitute for my portable DAT (which, like yours, is now sick and unusable). It's a plague! It really surprised me that both died at once. Well, one's half dead and awfully picky about tapes. I used to do a lot of conference and seminar recording and the D8 was remarkably adept at catching 4 hours of very good quality audio unattended and unobstrusively. I can hold out for at least another year, so that's what I'm going to do. Fostex and Sound Devices both have something suitable and just barely affordable on the horizon. I guess I'm going to wait, too. That's too bad. I worry that whatever killed the first two machines is working on the third. I got very used to having backup capability. Thanks! Eric |
#7
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:05:55 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote (in message ): I hope you can help me find an answer to my question. I own three Sony D8 DAT portables. Two of them (almost simultaneously) now refuse to load DAT tapes. The machines whirs away for a few seconds, the display blinks completely off and then the counter shows 0000 but the tape is not loaded. The machines will now not even load a cleaning tape. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- This sounds like either a major logic problem (possible, but unlikely) or a transport problem (very probable). But the entire D7/D8/D100 portable line is fragile and very, very difficult to take apart, let alone repair. The much larger TCD-D10 (and the improved Series II version) is much easier to service, but is still mechanically quite complex. It's not a job for the faint-of-heart. OK - say no more. I've never taken apart anything tiny that didn't eject a microscopic spring or circlip across the room into the twilight zone. It's not that I am faint-of-heart; I am fumbled-of-fingers. The same tapes that the two sick D8's barf on play in the rarely used third backup recorder and a standalone machine as well, so it's not likely to be a tape problem. I read that these units only have a 500 hour head life. Is that correct? Is that the possible problem? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- My advice would be to get a service manual from he Sony National Parts Center 8281 NW 107th Terrace P.O. Box 20407 Kansas City, MO 64153 (800) 488-SONY / 7669 (816) 891-7550 http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/service/homepage.htm and see what the manual for your D8 says. 500 hours sounds incredibly low to me; my memory of my own D7 is around 2000 hours, but I might be wrong. They could have could easily have 500 hours on them - maybe not 2000 but I can't say for sure. My other advice is NOT to play back tapes on these machines, ever. You're much better off playing back DAT tapes on heavy-duty DAT studio decks (or the higher-end Sony ES consumer decks), because the mechanical reliability is better and the head-drum size is larger, and the interchange is better on the non-portable machines. I also find they're gentler on tapes and handle them much better than the portables. My philosophy is, just use the portable machines for recording only. I don't even rewind in them, ever. Where were YOU 500 hours ago when that advice might have saved me from scrapping these puppies??! (just kidding, of course) Sony's 7000-series decks are particularly good in my experience (7010, 7030, 7040, etc.) for playback. They'll play back a wide range of tapes without muting or screwing up, far better than the more commonly-seen Tascam or Panasonic DAT decks. I've seen the Sony's go recently on eBay for anywhere from $500-$1500, depending on condition. This may be the end of DAT for me. I original got into DAT on the (what I realize now is the hilarious) assumption I could play extract digital audio from a DAT using a PC's SCSI DAT backup drive. That would have offloaded playback and digital transfer to a much more easily repaired and much more robust piece of equipment. But unless something's changed, those two formats never intersected. So I spent hundreds of bucks on RMKs and 7 pin patch cables and DAL cards that I never got to work quite right. If I wait a little longer, the industry paradigm shift might be complete and I can record to DVD-RW's. I use them for computer backup now, the DAT's are being pulled from my PCs one by one and replaced with DVD-recorders that offer twice the recording space for half the media cost and record it at 8 times the speed. Any pointers or advice or places to ask this question would be much appreciated. How much does it cost to replace the heads? Are their sensors for loading that might be occluded with dust? Are there any known problems with units that would be causing this? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- Maybe not dust per se, but I bet the loading arm might need lubrication. My memory is that the lube they specify for portables (cassettes and DAT) is very specialized, and you can't just spray on any old lube and expect it to work. Use what the service manual advises. I'm probably not going to spring for the manuals. I have plenty of Sony service them, going back to a TC100 and they haven't been much help other than confirming these suckers are too tiny and complex for me to be much good at fixing them. I think I finally learned that on a M1000 stereo microcassette. The last time I took apart a D7, I remember it was a combination of direct-drive motors AND belts -- Belts. Jeez. I've been amazed at how belts have disappeared from VCR transports over the years. A belt is born to die. I think belts for loading/unloading and shuttling. It could well be there's a slipped belt in one of the units, but I barely got my deck back together again once I dismantled it. Yikes! I seem to recall it took an hour to disassemble, and about 4 hours to put back together -- and that was with the service manual! That seems to be about the right ratio. I used to set up those hinge boxes with dividers, remove every screw in order, laying them out in serial order in the parts box just to make sure I got the order right. I even took digital pictures of the disassembly process. To no avail. What's needed is perhaps six sets of exquisite robotic fingers that can hold the tiniest of parts in place while clamshells are shut or case tops lowered back onto their mates or holding one thing down will you slide another thing under. Yeah. Buy a new one or find a service center. You've convinced me! You could try asking for advice on the DAT heads mailing list: http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/dat-heads Thanks. I think you guys have covered it, though. And another good place for fixing DAT decks is Manhattan Sound, at: http://www.tangible-technology.com/ Thanks for that tip, too. The alternative would be to send it directly to Sony service, but I don't know what the parts situations is on the D8's these days. (Probably not good.) The last time I sent a D7 in for alignment, I think Sony had a fixed price of about $120 plus parts -- same price for cleaning/alignment as for head replacement. I think heads were maybe $250 or so. Sad thing is, you can buy a used D8 for about that off eBay. I'm going to see what Sony says. Then it might be off to Ebay to sell them to someone with nimbler fingers. Eric |
#8
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
Eric Wolfe wrote:
This may be the end of DAT for me. I original got into DAT on the (what I realize now is the hilarious) assumption I could play extract digital audio from a DAT using a PC's SCSI DAT backup drive. That would have offloaded playback and digital transfer to a much more easily repaired and much more robust piece of equipment. But unless something's changed, those two formats never intersected. Actually, you can do it with some of the Archive DDS drives, that have special firmware to read audio DAT tapes. It's not cheap at all, but it used to be popular with some of the mastering guys running Sonic. So I spent hundreds of bucks on RMKs and 7 pin patch cables and DAL cards that I never got to work quite right. If I wait a little longer, the industry paradigm shift might be complete and I can record to DVD-RW's. The problem isn't DAT, the problem is those crappy Sony machines. If you buy crappy gear, you will waste a lot of time fiddling with things trying to get stuff to work, and buying accessories to make it do stuff it should have done in the first place (witness those godawful 7 pin connectors). If you buy crappy DVD-RW systems, you will have the same problems. The problem is not the medium, the problem is the implementation. I'm going to see what Sony says. Then it might be off to Ebay to sell them to someone with nimbler fingers. The Sony flat rate cost isn't bad, but don't expect them to actually get it fixed on the first try. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Eric Wolfe" wrote in message ...
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1068816609k@trad... In article writes: - but they are getting pretty old. I suppose I got my money's worth out of them considering. The question is - what to do now? Replace them with something newer or invest money in looking to get them to fixed. This is a sticky question right now. I'm waiting it out. I have my Nomad Jukebox 3 and I can get by with that, but it's no substitute for my portable DAT (which, like yours, is now sick and unusable). It's a plague! It really surprised me that both died at once. Well, one's half dead and awfully picky about tapes. I used to do a lot of conference and seminar recording and the D8 was remarkably adept at catching 4 hours of very good quality audio unattended and unobstrusively. I can hold out for at least another year, so that's what I'm going to do. Fostex and Sound Devices both have something suitable and just barely affordable on the horizon. I guess I'm going to wait, too. That's too bad. I worry that whatever killed the first two machines is working on the third. I got very used to having backup capability. Thanks! Eric A few years back a copy room I knew of had 24 Aiwa(A Sony company) cassette machines. They were all bought at the same time but as the components were so closely manufactured, when one developed a problem most of the rest developed the same fault within a few days. Steve Lane |
#11
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:31 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote
(in message ): This may be the end of DAT for me. I original got into DAT on the (what I realize now is the hilarious) assumption I could play extract digital audio from a DAT using a PC's SCSI DAT backup drive. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- I'm not sure how that's a good idea. How would this be better than just playing back the DAT tape directly into an S/PDIF sound card? Also, trying to figure out the start/stop time for each segment on a Data DAT drive would be a nightmare, even assuming it could be done at all. My experience in the early 1990s with SCSI DAT drives for data wasn't very pleasant. If I wait a little longer, the industry paradigm shift might be complete and I can record to DVD-RW's. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- I use DVD-RW's all the time, just to time-shift stuff I need to watch temporarily. Just did that with TAKEN -- a miniseries that definitely doesn't deserve permanent DVD-R's! :-) Don't forget my other comment about playing the tapes back on bigger, heavier-duty machine. That was my main point: the little portables are OK as recorders, but not-so-hot as players. And they definitely don't hold up for continued day-in/day-out use. --MFW |
#12
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... Eric Wolfe wrote: This may be the end of DAT for me. I original got into DAT on the (what I realize now is the hilarious) assumption I could play extract digital audio from a DAT using a PC's SCSI DAT backup drive. That would have offloaded playback and digital transfer to a much more easily repaired and much more robust piece of equipment. But unless something's changed, those two formats never intersected. Actually, you can do it with some of the Archive DDS drives, that have special firmware to read audio DAT tapes. It's not cheap at all, but it used to be popular with some of the mastering guys running Sonic. Yes - that's what I recall. I had HP Surestore drives and no firmware was available for those drives. It was clearly not a simple or cheap option - and that's hard to understand given the basic similarities between the formats. The Dying D8's lasted almost into the next generation of recording technology. I hope that the last D8 lasts long enough to transfer everything of note to DVD. So I spent hundreds of bucks on RMKs and 7 pin patch cables and DAL cards that I never got to work quite right. If I wait a little longer, the industry paradigm shift might be complete and I can record to DVD-RW's. The problem isn't DAT, the problem is those crappy Sony machines. If you buy crappy gear, you will waste a lot of time fiddling with things trying to get stuff to work, and buying accessories to make it do stuff it should have done in the first place (witness those godawful 7 pin connectors). Had an ex-wife working for Sony at the time. They had a generous employee discount. The price was more than good. I got my use out of them. I agree the 7 pin connector was a bad idea, but I'll bet it was done to save space - at the time they were designed their size/price ratio seemed pretty good, especially with a discount. Would I have liked more connectors on board? Sure. Even a minispeaker. I can bet that these features existed on prototypes but got excised for economy. If you buy crappy DVD-RW systems, you will have the same problems. The problem is not the medium, the problem is the implementation. Everything's a tradeoff between price and marginal utility. I'm going to see what Sony says. Then it might be off to Ebay to sell them to someone with nimbler fingers. The Sony flat rate cost isn't bad, but don't expect them to actually get it fixed on the first try. Is it typically a failure to fix the original fault or introduction of new faults? Eric |
#13
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:31 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote (in message ): This may be the end of DAT for me. I original got into DAT on the (what I realize now is the hilarious) assumption I could play extract digital audio from a DAT using a PC's SCSI DAT backup drive. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- I'm not sure how that's a good idea. That's why I said it was hilarious. An opportunity arose to buy one at employee discount and I thought I would be able to at least read the audio files onto a hard drive and audio CD's. How would this be better than just playing back the DAT tape directly into an S/PDIF sound card? I'll bet the D8's would still be working if the reading had been offloaded to internal SCSI DAT drives. That would have saved wear and tear on the harder to repair D8's. Also, trying to figure out the start/stop time for each segment on a Data DAT drive would be a nightmare, even assuming it could be done at all. My experience in the early 1990s with SCSI DAT drives for data wasn't very pleasant. You'd need a program that could emulate the tape recorder's processing capabilities. It wouldn't be (and apparently wasn't, from what someone else said) a trivial deal and involved modifications to one particular brand of DAT data drives. If I wait a little longer, the industry paradigm shift might be complete and I can record to DVD-RW's. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- I use DVD-RW's all the time, just to time-shift stuff I need to watch temporarily. Just did that with TAKEN -- a miniseries that definitely doesn't deserve permanent DVD-R's! :-) DVD-RW is a nice format - you can master stuff without ruining a stack of write once disks. I'll soon be finding out what the practical use limits of those are. But no portable DVD recorder I know of can match the D8 for size yet and may never since the disk is fairly wide. But they will become small and cheap soon, since the format drives the market and DVDs have certainly made their mark. I've watched them go from one panel on the 12 panel wall at the local Target to 11 panels worth of displays. I wonder if there's a website devoted to lost formats? Sony Beta, 8 tracks, videodiscs - lots of dead branches on the tree. Don't forget my other comment about playing the tapes back on bigger, heavier-duty machine. That was my main point: the little portables are OK as recorders, but not-so-hot as players. And they definitely don't hold up for continued day-in/day-out use. And I repeat - now ya tells me! grin It may be just like the timing belt in my Honda after either 5 years or 90K miles, it's gonna blow. Sounds like these rigs are famous for transport trauma. I suspect, with regret, that you are right and I should have used a big deck for more playback. C'est la vie. Eric |
#14
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
A few years back a copy room I knew of had 24 Aiwa(A Sony company)
cassette machines. They were all bought at the same time but as the components were so closely manufactured, when one developed a problem most of the rest developed the same fault within a few days. Steve Lane I think that's what happened here. It suddenly got cold and dry and I'll bet that little rubber belts got all crazed and alligatored at pretty much the same time being made from the same batch of rubber. Thanks for the confirming info. The implication is that the good deck will fail shortly. It will be interesting to see. Eric |
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
That's pretty amazing. I wish I knew how they can predict the life of car batteries as accurately as they do. If you have a battery that's guaranteed for 42 months, you can bet it will last at least 40 months (when it's pro-rated warranty value is next to nothing) and will probably be dead as a mackerel by 44 months. It's been that way for me for about the last 30 years of car ownership. I just made the same comment to a friend. They must have the decay rate pretty well figured because if you have a 42 month battery, you really need to start thinking "new battery" at month 40, as you say. I have a note written in my planner to check it tomorrow since the lights dimmed when I hit the defroster this AM. Another sure sign that bad battery BS is on the way. Eric |
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
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#18
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:56:36 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote
(in message ): DVD-RW is a nice format - you can master stuff without ruining a stack of write once disks. I'll soon be finding out what the practical use limits of those are. But no portable DVD recorder I know of can match the D8 for size yet and may never since the disk is fairly wide. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- No, DVD is not my choice for on-location recording -- though at least one vendor (Fostex) is using the small 8cm DVD-RAM discs. Me personally, I think the best choice is to use a hard drive, which is what the Deva, Nagra, and forthcoming Sound Devices units use. From there, you can offload the material to CD-R, DVD-R, another drive, or even an analog format if you want. I think that's by far the most flexible way to go. The Sound Devices units are certainly not as small as the D8, but they are pretty small. I think with stuff like this, you reach a point where you don't want it too small, or else you can't see the meters or hit all the buttons with your fingers. For ultimate small size, I think Core Sound's "PDAudio" device is impossible to beat, since it's only slightly smaller than a Palmtop. They have their limitation (mainly in lack of timecode and other pro features), but for people doing a simple stereo music recording on location, it'll do the job nicely. BTW, if you need a way to play back your existing DAT tapes, I'd be glad to create .WAV files out of your cassettes (for a fee). Barring that, I also have an extra Sony PCM-7010 deck I'm selling. That's a machine that can pretty much play anything. I already have a 7030, which is a slightly better unit, and all I need for my small studio. --MFW |
#19
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:56:36 -0800, Eric Wolfe wrote (in message ): DVD-RW is a nice format - you can master stuff without ruining a stack of write once disks. I'll soon be finding out what the practical use limits of those are. But no portable DVD recorder I know of can match the D8 for size yet and may never since the disk is fairly wide. --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- No, DVD is not my choice for on-location recording -- though at least one vendor (Fostex) is using the small 8cm DVD-RAM discs. Me personally, I think the best choice is to use a hard drive, which is what the Deva, Nagra, and forthcoming Sound Devices units use. From there, you can offload the material to CD-R, DVD-R, another drive, or even an analog format if you want. I think that's by far the most flexible way to go. Agree. But there were plenty of cases where I would record something onto two decks simultaneously and offer the other tape to a seminar participant. That way I had a backup running on-site and one stored off site. g That's not easy to do with a hard drive based system. The Fostex sounds interesting because I can play it back (I hope) in any DVD equipped PC. Can I? Or would I be making the same dumb format assumption that I made with audio and computer DATs? The Sound Devices units are certainly not as small as the D8, but they are pretty small. I think with stuff like this, you reach a point where you don't want it too small, or else you can't see the meters or hit all the buttons with your fingers. Quite true. FWIW, the Sony got high marks for in the dark operation with the backlight and the texture marked and uniquely shaped button surfaces. Of course, the backlight could pump noise onto the tape, but that wasn't a problem with my kind of work. For ultimate small size, I think Core Sound's "PDAudio" device is impossible to beat, since it's only slightly smaller than a Palmtop. They have their limitation (mainly in lack of timecode and other pro features), but for people doing a simple stereo music recording on location, it'll do the job nicely. I'll have a look. Thanks. BTW, if you need a way to play back your existing DAT tapes, I'd be glad to create .WAV files out of your cassettes (for a fee). Barring that, I also have an extra Sony PCM-7010 deck I'm selling. That's a machine that can pretty much play anything. I already have a 7030, which is a slightly better unit, and all I need for my small studio. I looked at the library, and it's mostly boring conference tapes. I'll hang onto them for archival purposes, but there's not much I would bring across. If it was important, it's already been transferred to the PC world. Eric |
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Sony D8 portable refuses to load DATs. HELP!
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1069087571k@trad... In article writes: But there were plenty of cases where I would record something onto two decks simultaneously and offer the other tape to a seminar participant. That way I had a backup running on-site and one stored off site. g That's not easy to do with a hard drive based system. You can always split the signal to the hard disk recorder as well as a cassette recorder. The participant will almost always want a cassette, unless he wants a CD. This was a sort of unusual case where my people were the only ones who were really going to use the tape. Using a cassette recorder would have meant at least two, maybe more flipping episodes to load new tapes. That's why the D8's on LP mode with Sony 124 tapes was unbeatable. Still far better fidelity than a cassette and no one ever went more than 4 hours without a break. In that case you could substitute a CD recorder for the cassette recorder. But it's the rare seminar participant who will be able to make use of a DAT. We really didn't care that much if they couldn't read them. It was a peace of mind sort of thing where they got to choose either tape A or tape B from the two originals we had made. The big benefit for us was that we were always making backups - and it saved my butt when for some reason the record button didn't engage and I recorded nothing for the first hour or so. (I would have bet my life I saw the VU meter bars showing an input signal but they might have been reading what was previously recorded and I mistook it for an input signal.) Basically the participants wanted to have a copy of everything they said - just in case. We were always able to dupe cassettes from the DAT originals if they had needed it in that (or CD WAV file format) but hardly anyone ever asked (we weren't doing this as a professional service - we needed a complete transcript of events to write our evalutions of the seminar). In many cases they were already making cassette tapes for themselves but we found the quality of those tapes to be pretty uneven so we started making DATs for ourselves. The Fostex sounds interesting because I can play it back (I hope) in any DVD equipped PC. Can I? Or would I be making the same dumb format assumption that I made with audio and computer DATs? I'm not sure if it's able to record in a DVD audio format, but I'm certain that it will record WAV files on CD, so you can play it on any PC that has a WAV file player (Microsoft and Real Audio will assure that you have one g). That's good. I'd hate to make the same mistaken assumption twice. I have used the mini-CD format for a number of things because they fit nicely inside a number 10 business envelope. I have not, as yet, run across DVD blanks in the mini format but I assume they are out there. I just haven't looked that hard. The Sound Devices units are certainly not as small as the D8, but they are pretty small. I think with stuff like this, you reach a point where you don't want it too small, or else you can't see the meters or hit all the buttons with your fingers. This is my feeling, too. It's why I have reservations about Core Sound's approach to using a PDA as a recorder, and why I'm not crazy about the Jukebox 3 or a laptop computer. If you're in the dark, or you don't have a solid table to set things on, it's difficult to push the "Record" button. The phrase "Jack of all Trades, Master of none" comes to mind. I've seen people try to turn PDAs into any number of things they are ill-suited for. I think even a greater misuse than turn one into a recorder is turning it into a super remote. It wasn't until a reviewed one that I realized how important a good tactile layout is for a remote. They are, like recorders, often operated in low or no light conditions using a relatively small subset of all available keys. The PDA was the only remote I ever had to reboot! In addition, none of these devices have integrated mic preamps (I choose to ignore the Jukebox's concept of a microphone input), so you need another box, another cable, and another power source in addition to the recorder. Jeez, just what I DON'T want to do, having a wiring kludge. It's hard enough keeping a microphone and power cord plugged in and there were plenty of times I had no convenient access to outlets and had to run the D8's off internal NiMH batteries (which kept it going for 4+ hours). It's one of the things I liked about the D8 - it took regular AA batteries. That's incredibly important to me for things like recorders and cameras that go out into the field. Try to buy a specialized NiMH or lithium power pack at the corner drugstore. I can see any one of these approaches if you already have a mixing console set up for a sound reinforcement system, can put your recorder on the same table, and get a line level output from the console. That means you don't need the outboard preamp and its trappings, and if the PA operator (which might even be you) has enough light to see the mixer, there's probably enough light to see the recorder. I have a neat little LED flashlight on a stalk that covers that problem. Runs for days on two AA's. It's a necessity for working seminars and stuff. Eric |
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