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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
Hello!!
Hopefully you'll be able to help me out, just finished installing my system and it works great, except for one issue.. whenever it changes songs (whether on random or manual selection) between songs a whizzing/ reading sound comes from the speakers and subs!! Its as if the mechanism within the cd player is amplified and coming through the amps and speakers, I checked all connections and all seems to be fine. Any ideas on what this sound is? and whats causing it? many thanks Jonathan |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
By the way, just to avoid confusion its not alternator whine, as this is
present with the engine off. thanks "Jonathan" wrote in message e... Hello!! Hopefully you'll be able to help me out, just finished installing my system and it works great, except for one issue.. whenever it changes songs (whether on random or manual selection) between songs a whizzing/ reading sound comes from the speakers and subs!! Its as if the mechanism within the cd player is amplified and coming through the amps and speakers, I checked all connections and all seems to be fine. Any ideas on what this sound is? and whats causing it? many thanks Jonathan |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
mine used to do this when I used a cheap RCA cable. What kind of wiring and cable did you use, how many amps do you have, what kind of head unit are you using, what kind of amps, and how your system is configured would help us determine the problem. -- flak_monkey |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
Thanks for the reply!!
I'm using HiQ PROPOWER 2 COL OXYGEN FREE SPEAKER WIRE CABLE for the speakers. Normal RCA cables for the headunits (bought one of those 2000watt amp packs). I have two amps. 1amp driving 2 sets of components for the doors; 1 ampdriving 4 subs. 2 in series, other two in series, and then both sets of series in Parallel to keep it 4ohm. Headunit: Clarion DXZ945MP. Rainbow Amps thanks again "flak_monkey" wrote in message ... mine used to do this when I used a cheap RCA cable. What kind of wiring and cable did you use, how many amps do you have, what kind of head unit are you using, what kind of amps, and how your system is configured would help us determine the problem. -- flak_monkey |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
Try improving the ground on your headunit, should use a piece of 12AWG
from the back of the HU chassis to a bare spot of metal that's part of the car chassis, bolt it securely in place with ring terminals. You're hearing noise duo to signal grounding issues, either because there's a lousy signal ground path back through the HU to car chassis or something whack with your signal cables. Surprised you don't have engine noise too, but it's possibly internal to the deck (blown ground trace, loose grounding screws etc.) & not an external grounding issue. If that's the case the deck needs servicing. JD Jonathan wrote: Hello!! Hopefully you'll be able to help me out, just finished installing my system and it works great, except for one issue.. whenever it changes songs (whether on random or manual selection) between songs a whizzing/ reading sound comes from the speakers and subs!! Its as if the mechanism within the cd player is amplified and coming through the amps and speakers, I checked all connections and all seems to be fine. Any ideas on what this sound is? and whats causing it? many thanks Jonathan |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
On Apr 29, 10:04 pm, John Durbin wrote:
Try improving the ground on your headunit, should use a piece of 12AWG from the back of the HU chassis to a bare spot of metal that's part of the car chassis, bolt it securely in place with ring terminals. You're hearing noise duo to signal grounding issues, either because there's a lousy signal ground path back through the HU to car chassis or something whack with your signal cables. Surprised you don't have engine noise too, but it's possibly internal to the deck (blown ground trace, loose grounding screws etc.) & not an external grounding issue. If that's the case the deck needs servicing. JD It is best (as I heard before from other people) to have all your ground connections leading to one spot in the car chassis, otherwise you could have ground loops and thus would cause noise in your system. That spot should be sanded well so that nothing but shiny metal is showing. I also suggest using gold plated ring terminals for best connection. Gold does not oxidize and it is soft to squeeze into place for maximum conduction. Also, make sure that spot on the car chassis is very very close to zero volts with respect to your negative terminal on your battery. The connection should be TIGHT with a nut to keep it in place. If you are using just a screw, I wouldn't make it too tight because it might strip. If that doesn't work, it is probably your head unit itself. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
Bullcrap... my advice didn't come from what I "heard from other people",
it's what WORKS as learned from 17 years installing & troubleshooting car audio systems as a professional and several more years following that working tech support, writing product manuals, designing amps & processors. If you don't understand how signal grounding works in the first place, star grounding is no universal cure as most people fail to do it correctly anyway. I'll give you a hint though - the car chassis IS the one point, and running little wires halfway down the length of the car ain't the best way to connect to it. But, go ahead and argue the point - it'll be fun. Eddie & Dan can join in, we'll all have a good time and a few people will learn something. JD Mariachi wrote: On Apr 29, 10:04 pm, John Durbin wrote: Try improving the ground on your headunit, should use a piece of 12AWG from the back of the HU chassis to a bare spot of metal that's part of the car chassis, bolt it securely in place with ring terminals. You're hearing noise duo to signal grounding issues, either because there's a lousy signal ground path back through the HU to car chassis or something whack with your signal cables. Surprised you don't have engine noise too, but it's possibly internal to the deck (blown ground trace, loose grounding screws etc.) & not an external grounding issue. If that's the case the deck needs servicing. JD It is best (as I heard before from other people) to have all your ground connections leading to one spot in the car chassis, otherwise you could have ground loops and thus would cause noise in your system. That spot should be sanded well so that nothing but shiny metal is showing. I also suggest using gold plated ring terminals for best connection. Gold does not oxidize and it is soft to squeeze into place for maximum conduction. Also, make sure that spot on the car chassis is very very close to zero volts with respect to your negative terminal on your battery. The connection should be TIGHT with a nut to keep it in place. If you are using just a screw, I wouldn't make it too tight because it might strip. If that doesn't work, it is probably your head unit itself. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
On Apr 30, 2:11 am, John Durbin wrote:
Bullcrap... my advice didn't come from what I "heard from other people", it's what WORKS as learned from 17 years installing & troubleshooting car audio systems as a professional and several more years following that working tech support, writing product manuals, designing amps & processors. If you don't understand how signal grounding works in the first place, star grounding is no universal cure as most people fail to do it correctly anyway. I'll give you a hint though - the car chassis IS the one point, and running little wires halfway down the length of the car ain't the best way to connect to it. But, go ahead and argue the point - it'll be fun. Eddie & Dan can join in, we'll all have a good time and a few people will learn something. JD Mariachi wrote: On Apr 29, 10:04 pm, John Durbin wrote: Try improving the ground on your headunit, should use a piece of 12AWG from the back of the HU chassis to a bare spot of metal that's part of the car chassis, bolt it securely in place with ring terminals. You're hearing noise duo to signal grounding issues, either because there's a lousy signal ground path back through the HU to car chassis or something whack with your signal cables. Surprised you don't have engine noise too, but it's possibly internal to the deck (blown ground trace, loose grounding screws etc.) & not an external grounding issue. If that's the case the deck needs servicing. JD It is best (as I heard before from other people) to have all your ground connections leading to one spot in the car chassis, otherwise you could have ground loops and thus would cause noise in your system. That spot should be sanded well so that nothing but shiny metal is showing. I also suggest using gold plated ring terminals for best connection. Gold does not oxidize and it is soft to squeeze into place for maximum conduction. Also, make sure that spot on the car chassis is very very close to zero volts with respect to your negative terminal on your battery. The connection should be TIGHT with a nut to keep it in place. If you are using just a screw, I wouldn't make it too tight because it might strip. If that doesn't work, it is probably your head unit itself. No, I'm all for discussion... please discuss. The only reason I said connect all your ground wires to one point is because you want all your ground wires to have the same voltage with respect to one another. Isn't it true that some car chassis's that are old and rusted could have some resistance between one point and another and thus could create little voltage drops across the chassis of the car. With a good chassis with no rust or oxidation, you wouldn't have to worry about this because it is all the relatively same voltage. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
You are wrong... look at it from the perspective of the resistance of
the car chassis as a ground path vs. the piece of wire you used. Just how big a gauge do you think would be needed to equal the car's chassis? The cross-sectional area is huge... if you clean the spot where you connect, surface rust is meaningless & besides, what are you working on, a 53 Edsel? Not too many late model cars rolling into the bays with that kind of rust... Bottom line, the car's chassis IS the ground reference for the vehicle & you should connect the various components to it with low-resistance paths, hence the recommendation for 12 AWG on the back of the HU & avoiding unnecessarily long runs which is what results from doing it the way you want to. JD Mariachi wrote: On Apr 30, 2:11 am, John Durbin wrote: Bullcrap... my advice didn't come from what I "heard from other people", it's what WORKS as learned from 17 years installing & troubleshooting car audio systems as a professional and several more years following that working tech support, writing product manuals, designing amps & processors. If you don't understand how signal grounding works in the first place, star grounding is no universal cure as most people fail to do it correctly anyway. I'll give you a hint though - the car chassis IS the one point, and running little wires halfway down the length of the car ain't the best way to connect to it. But, go ahead and argue the point - it'll be fun. Eddie & Dan can join in, we'll all have a good time and a few people will learn something. JD Mariachi wrote: On Apr 29, 10:04 pm, John Durbin wrote: Try improving the ground on your headunit, should use a piece of 12AWG from the back of the HU chassis to a bare spot of metal that's part of the car chassis, bolt it securely in place with ring terminals. You're hearing noise duo to signal grounding issues, either because there's a lousy signal ground path back through the HU to car chassis or something whack with your signal cables. Surprised you don't have engine noise too, but it's possibly internal to the deck (blown ground trace, loose grounding screws etc.) & not an external grounding issue. If that's the case the deck needs servicing. JD It is best (as I heard before from other people) to have all your ground connections leading to one spot in the car chassis, otherwise you could have ground loops and thus would cause noise in your system. That spot should be sanded well so that nothing but shiny metal is showing. I also suggest using gold plated ring terminals for best connection. Gold does not oxidize and it is soft to squeeze into place for maximum conduction. Also, make sure that spot on the car chassis is very very close to zero volts with respect to your negative terminal on your battery. The connection should be TIGHT with a nut to keep it in place. If you are using just a screw, I wouldn't make it too tight because it might strip. If that doesn't work, it is probably your head unit itself. No, I'm all for discussion... please discuss. The only reason I said connect all your ground wires to one point is because you want all your ground wires to have the same voltage with respect to one another. Isn't it true that some car chassis's that are old and rusted could have some resistance between one point and another and thus could create little voltage drops across the chassis of the car. With a good chassis with no rust or oxidation, you wouldn't have to worry about this because it is all the relatively same voltage. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
On Apr 30, 8:02 am, John Durbin wrote:
You are wrong... look at it from the perspective of the resistance of the car chassis as a ground path vs. the piece of wire you used. Just how big a gauge do you think would be needed to equal the car's chassis? John, don't forget that the "chassis" isn't always one big piece of metal. If you choose a ground point on a welded-on member of the chassis, you may very well run into conductivity issues. I've personally installed systems in vehicles where the simple act of moving the system's ground point radically impacted the system (i.e. either eliminating or introducing noise). As far as cross-sectional area goes, let's not forget that electricity will travel the path of least resistance....it's been a while since my studies as an EE, but I don't think it's safe to assume that the entirety of the chassis is not going to be used as the path from source to sink--if we assume a superconducting chassis (i.e. no resistance), that current is going to flow in the shortest line possible, right? Which is not to say that the electrons are going to be scattered all over the chassis, but rather more or less concentrated in a "stream" of sorts. Isn't that correct, or do I need to go back to kollege? Even if that isn't the case, the notion that "anywhere on the chassis is fine" is not supported by empirical results of DCR tests that I and my colleagues of old have performed on vehicles which demonstrated that different spots on the vehicle's chassis can, and often do, present differing levels of resistance back to the negative terminal of the battery. Note that this isn't to say that all vehicles display this phenomenom, nor does it mean that if one grounds all components to a single point on the chassis that noise will never creep in--there are more variables that can introduce system noise than you can shake a stick at. What I am saying, though, is that my experience has shown that a system with multiple ground points is likely to be more susceptible to ground loop issues, and a system with a single ground point is less likely to suffer from the same ailment. I also don't agree with the gold thing, either. True, gold doesn't oxidize significantly and cause problems that way, but having a few microns of gold plating is not going to make a significant difference in terms of the malleability of the O-ring terminal and thus give it a better connection. Most O-rings are made of copper--which is malleable in its own right and incidentally is a better conductor than is gold when clean (http://www.wisetool.com/designation/cond.htm). The O-ring terminals I used back in the day were made of copper and were electrostatically plated with some other relatively inert metal (presumably aluminum)--and they conducted just fine thank-you-very- much....and without costing an arm and a leg. -dan |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
I also don't agree with the gold thing, either. True, gold doesn't
oxidize significantly and cause problems that way, but having a few microns of gold plating is not going to make a significant difference in terms of the malleability of the O-ring terminal and thus give it a better connection. Most O-rings are made of copper--which is malleable in its own right and incidentally is a better conductor than is gold when clean (http://www.wisetool.com/designation/cond.htm). The O-ring terminals I used back in the day were made of copper and were electrostatically plated with some other relatively inert metal (presumably aluminum)--and they conducted just fine thank-you-very- much....and without costing an arm and a leg. -dan True, copper does have better conductivity than gold. But a lot of people like gold-plated terminals because gold is soft and is able to fit better around the surface that you are connecting to, making it more like a weld. Copper on the other hand is harder than gold and can oxidize easily. A thin micron layer of gold is sufficient enough to achieve the desired result and protect whatever is inside from oxidizing. Also, gold-plated crimps and o-rings are not necessarily expensive. I just picked up 10 gold-plated 10 GWG o-ring connections for around 6 dollars the other day. Gold has around 1.5 times more resistance than copper per unit length. But a really thin layer of gold on connections isn't really going to hurt anything, and also you don't have to worry about oxiziding either. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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whizzing sound when changing songs
On Apr 30, 12:34 pm, Mariachi wrote:
True, copper does have better conductivity than gold. But a lot of people like gold-plated terminals because gold is soft and is able to fit better around the surface that you are connecting to, making it more like a weld. I'm sorry, I just have a hard time buying this as being a legtimate selling point of gold-plated connectors. If you've got some empirical evidence of the efficacy of a thin gold plating directly attributable to the malleability of the metal itself, I'm all ears (or eyes, rather)...but otherwise, this seems like a lot of hand-wavy marketing- speak intended to get the naive to part with their money. Again, I wish to make it clear that I'm *not* opposed to using gold- plated connectors--they definitely have their place in the harsh automotive environment, but *only* because of gold's ability to resist corrosion. It's only the benefits of gold's malleability (especially at the thicknesses we're talking about here) property that I'm contesting. Also, gold-plated crimps and o-rings are not necessarily expensive. I just picked up 10 gold-plated 10 GWG o-ring connections for around 6 dollars the other day. "Expensive" is a relative term, of course, just like how a Bentley is expensive to me but quite affordable to Bill Gates. Compared to good- quality aluminum(?)-plated connectors, they *are* expensive...and are arguably unecessarily so. Gold has around 1.5 times more resistance than copper per unit length. But a really thin layer of gold on connections isn't really going to hurt anything, and also you don't have to worry about oxiziding either. Of course not...I don't think that anything I've written would imply that using gold-plated connectors would have a deleterious effect on one's system--on the pocket book, maybe, but certainly not on the circuits in which they might be used. -dan |
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