Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

John Williamson wrote:

Their main claims seem to be "louder than normal vinyl" and/or longer
playing time with more uniform sound quality over the run.


"Louder than normal vinyl" is mostly a non-issue. I can already cut discs
louder than anyone can play back.

The problem is that the system is rate-limited; the stylus can only move
back and forth so fast. So the amount of excursion you can get on a low
note is MUCH wider than the amount you can get on a high note. Sure, you
can cut at half speed in order to get wider excursions at higher frequencies,
but you get discs that nobody can play back because their playback stylus
can't follow the groove accurately.

Also, looking at the stylus and groove profiles they favour, the stylus
will not be able to get past the dirt in the groove without reproducing
it along with the required signal. It'll be the same problem as the
laser pickups have.


I don't see this being particularly worse than normal playback.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

Scott Dorsey wrote: " I can already cut discs louder than anyone
can play back. "

Not that there'd be any point to it, or
with doing the same to CD.

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: " I can already cut discs louder than anyone
can play back. "

Not that there'd be any point to it, or
with doing the same to CD.


Sure there is. Cutting with wider excursion doesn't necessarily give you
any added distortion. The thing about the LP is that, unlike with the CD,
there is no actual reference level and although there are hard limits on
excursion due to the design of the cutter, there are many other limits that
prevent you from coming near them most of the time.

In most cases it's the playback system that limits things; there is no reason
to cut a disc that can't be played back without skipping. But I would be
willing to cut a lot hotter transients on a disc intended for the audiophile
market than for one intended for playback on jukeboxes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff geoff is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,812
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

On 17/04/2018 11:11 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: " I can already cut discs louder than anyone
can play back. "

Not that there'd be any point to it, or
with doing the same to CD.


Sure there is. Cutting with wider excursion doesn't necessarily give you
any added distortion. The thing about the LP is that, unlike with the CD,
there is no actual reference level and although there are hard limits on
excursion due to the design of the cutter, there are many other limits that
prevent you from coming near them most of the time.

In most cases it's the playback system that limits things; there is no reason
to cut a disc that can't be played back without skipping. But I would be
willing to cut a lot hotter transients on a disc intended for the audiophile
market than for one intended for playback on jukeboxes.
--scott



Like digital works from the top down, and analogue from the bottom up.

Scott is saying that he can get 'higher up' cutting vinyl (presumably
versus the averagely good)...

Nothing to do with flat tops or average envelope levels sorry thek.

geoff


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

geoff wrote: "Scott is saying that he can get 'higher up' cutting vinyl
(presumably versus the averagely good)...

Nothing to do with flat tops or average envelope levels sorry thek.

geoff"

Still, I'd rather have a soft recording with
tons of dynamics that sounds great on
a 100+WPChannel amp that one that
was produced 'hot' to 'help out a wimpy
10WPChannel off-brand party favor
bought in a market stall or at Target.
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

geoff wrote:
On 17/04/2018 11:11 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: " I can already cut discs louder than anyone
can play back. "

Not that there'd be any point to it, or
with doing the same to CD.


Sure there is. Cutting with wider excursion doesn't necessarily give you
any added distortion. The thing about the LP is that, unlike with the CD,
there is no actual reference level and although there are hard limits on
excursion due to the design of the cutter, there are many other limits that
prevent you from coming near them most of the time.

In most cases it's the playback system that limits things; there is no reason
to cut a disc that can't be played back without skipping. But I would be
willing to cut a lot hotter transients on a disc intended for the audiophile
market than for one intended for playback on jukeboxes.


Like digital works from the top down, and analogue from the bottom up.

Scott is saying that he can get 'higher up' cutting vinyl (presumably
versus the averagely good)...


Kind of.

You can think of the LP as being slew-limited. It's not like regular analogue
media. You have more headroom at low frequencies than at high ones because
the limitation isn't -total excursion- but how fast you can move the stylus.

Nothing to do with flat tops or average envelope levels sorry thek.


The cool thing with the LP is that you can have peaks that far exceed the
average level as long as you time them right so that the peaks on adjacent
grooves don't hit one another. So aggressive limiting doesn't actually make
anything any louder (although a little light limiting can make discs easier
to track).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

geoff, Scott:

But loudness is perceived by average
levels, not peak levels.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

In article ,
wrote:
geoff, Scott:

But loudness is perceived by average
levels, not peak levels.


Yes, but limiting peak levels down doesn't let you increase your average
levels with the LP. Because it's not total excursion that limits your
cutting levels.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default HD Vinyl - WTF?

Scott Dorsey wrote: "...it's not total excursion that limits your
cutting levels. "

Ok, you lost me with the above!


Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Updated Vinyl Catalog-30,555 Vinyl Records FS finylvinyl Marketplace 0 February 21st 08 04:28 PM
Canadian Vinyl Store-29,930 Vinyl Records FS finylvinyl Marketplace 0 September 13th 07 10:58 PM
Vinyl Anyone? question about recording onto vinyl Rob Adelman Pro Audio 0 November 19th 05 01:56 AM
CD Vs. Vinyl? Cobain4evr High End Audio 209 May 29th 05 04:00 PM
WTB: LP/Vinyl William cc Marketplace 0 November 24th 03 01:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:41 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"