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History of XLR gender convention
One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local
elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore |
#2
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"Hal Laurent" writes:
One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Someone will answer this with more knowledge than me; I seem to remember someone saying something about old tv news mag stripe film cameras always coming with males for the mic in, so every thing was female on the cables. I also suspect that as phantom became more wide spread there might have been a moderate safety issue about not having exposed and juiced male pins on the wall where little fingers could jab in there and get a tickle. Purely a guess. Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#3
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"Hal Laurent" One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? ** The convention dates from the appearance of microphones with male XLR sockets in the base of the handle - by around 1970 this style became commonplace ( with Shure, Sennheiser and AKG models) and then very soon was dominant. Mixer inputs were commonly male XLR sockets prior to that and mic leads had a variety of connectors at the mic end or even no connector at all with budget models. Making mic and other long leads with males at one end and females at the other is pure common sense - since it allows such leads to be chained. So mixer makers soon accommodated this. .............. Phil |
#4
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I always figured it was simple... the pins point in the direction of
the signal flow, the female receives... Al On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 04:21:37 -0000, Frank Stearns wrote: "Hal Laurent" writes: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Someone will answer this with more knowledge than me; I seem to remember someone saying something about old tv news mag stripe film cameras always coming with males for the mic in, so every thing was female on the cables. I also suspect that as phantom became more wide spread there might have been a moderate safety issue about not having exposed and juiced male pins on the wall where little fingers could jab in there and get a tickle. Purely a guess. Frank Mobile Audio |
#5
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play on wrote:
I always figured it was simple... the pins point in the direction of the signal flow, the female receives... So phantom power is for people who are into female domination and/or role reversal? - Logan |
#6
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When I worked for Bendix Field Engineering, I learned that government
electronics used the opposite convention. A "goesinta" is male, a "comesouta" is female. The reason for this is that connectors often carry line or higher voltages. You don't want the outputs to have male pins that can be easily touched or shorted. |
#7
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"Hal Laurent" wrote in message news Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? As long as I can remember I've always understood the convention to be "the signal flow goes in the direction of the pins". geoff |
#8
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Hal Laurent wrote:
Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? The installed sound guys have done the female-female thing for years. At least in the 1950s it was popular, and you will still see it on most hotel and conference systems today. It means the cables can be unwound from either end and are less likely to get stolen. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote: When I worked for Bendix Field Engineering, I learned that government electronics used the opposite convention. A "goesinta" is male, a "comesouta" is female. The reason for this is that connectors often carry line or higher voltages. You don't want the outputs to have male pins that can be easily touched or shorted. Right, and the most common connector around, the lowly Edison household power plug, is configured this way. A cable with two male Edisons, used to backhaul power into a service from an outlet in emergencies, is called a suicide cord. This is because if you plug just one end in, you have two live prongs sticking out on the other end. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
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Hal Laurent wrote: Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore It is essential to sound reproduction. ;-) Peter |
#11
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#12
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#13
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:49:59 -0500, Hal Laurent
wrote: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. I've only seen these a few times, always in "Institutional Use" . . . places with many people and not so good security. I always assumed it was done to discourage theft. |
#14
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Sounds like the institutionalists used a tradeperson to install something
akin to electrical fittings but whose emerging codes of practice were really alien to them. Yet these were understood within the domain of trained PA/Audio specialists whom they did not know existed or could not employ justifiably, ie, resulting in an incompatible though working botch. The anti-theft benefits are a pure spin-off. |
#15
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Logan Shaw wrote:
play on wrote: I always figured it was simple... the pins point in the direction of the signal flow, the female receives... So phantom power is for people who are into female domination and/or role reversal? Not people, ectoplasmic beings. |
#16
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Jim Gregory wrote:
Sounds like the institutionalists used a tradeperson to install something akin to electrical fittings but whose emerging codes of practice were really alien to them. Yet these were understood within the domain of trained PA/Audio specialists whom they did not know existed or could not employ justifiably, ie, resulting in an incompatible though working botch. The anti-theft benefits are a pure spin-off. They may also have figured it would be easier to clean out a male XLR buried under years of schmutz that collected in that hole in the gym floor. |
#17
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You hopefully mean "it would be more difficult...."
And don't overlook decorators and painters that found it simpler to daub than to bypass a delicate area feature just to keep the latest colour scheme uniform! |
#18
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Jim Gregory wrote:
You hopefully mean "it would be more difficult...." You have a hole in the floor with pins, not a three-hole connector with a surrounding groove and a latch mechanism. Therefore, easier to clean. |
#19
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#20
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Mike Rivers wrote:
I used to borrow a Nagra III recorder on a fairly regular basis, and that had a male mic connector. Nothing cheap about that, it was a matter of size. Could this be a Europe / US thing? The nagra 4s with NAB eq came standard with female mic connectors, while the CCIR came with male. I was told by a NOB (the former dutch state broadcast facility company) employee that they wire every device to have male connectors, and every cable with both ends female, for the reason already mentioned elsewhe if you have a 3000 ft cable just rolled out, you don't want to find out it's the wrong way around. Hans -- This is a non-profit organization; we didn't plan it that way, but it is ===================================== (remove uppercase trap, and double the number to reply) |
#21
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news:d1rtn2 The installed sound guys have done the female-female thing for years. At least in the 1950s it was popular, and you will still see it on most hotel and conference systems today. It means the cables can be unwound from either end and are less likely to get stolen. Na, they get stolen just the same. Then they get dumped when the theif realises. geoff |
#22
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#23
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After all the dutiful adherence to XLR gender convention all my audio
engineering life, in studios, on dozens of international multi-broadcaster OBs and in theatres, a lot of the stuff I have read today on this topic, including the last bit from Hans, tells me lots of folk hardly cared professionally about this as long as their linkage job was made easier -- so I suppose it should have been threaded in rec.audio.opinion. |
#24
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#26
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play on wrote:
I always make sure the knob is on zero and the wires are on the speaker terminals before I turn the thing on... Al Famous last words..... Hans -- This is a non-profit organization; we didn't plan it that way, but it is ===================================== (remove uppercase trap, and double the number to reply) |
#27
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A cable with two male Edisons, used to backhaul power into a service from
an outlet in emergencies, is called a suicide cord. This is because if you plug just one end in, you have two live prongs sticking out on the other end. Not if you plug the cable into the "destination" first. |
#28
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:49:59 -0500, "Hal Laurent"
wrote: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore Well, I heard a different story when I was growing up in this business. Here's the way it went: Most professional recording and broadcast mics had male connectors on them: UA (for United Artists), type P (for Paramount Studios), or Tuchel (for anything German). Then Cannon introduce the new, miniature XLR connector. Still, mics had male connectors and the inputs to preamps were female, because if you used a male connector with exposed pins for a mic level input, it put one hell of a nasty hum into the system when somebody touched one of the exposed pins. This was even before +48V phantom power became a standard, so exposed voltage was not a consideration. Non-pro microphones used high-impedance unbalanced connections with various connectors, including a Amphenol coaxial with screw sleeve. This is why microphones like the EV 664 had an impedance switch. But a US company called Bogen decided to use balanced low-impedance microphone inputs on their PA systems for schools. However, after spending all that money on input transformers for their tube preamp circuit, they didn't like the cost of the female XLR panel-mount connector. The males XLRs were cheaper, and schools (even then) always bought from the lowest bidder, so that's what they used, and they were the first manufacturer of school PA systems with balanced mic inputs. Male XLR became the new standard for the mic inputs of school PA systems, and other manufacturers went along with it, including Dukane and University. Movie and recording studios still used female XLR for mic inputs. Many adapter cables were made. School PA mic cables always had female XLR connectors on both ends. And that's the story they told me, back when dinosaurs roamed and the EV 666 was the mic of choice for PA. Mike T. |
#30
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message Around here, a "suicide cord" is a cable with an AC plug on one end and alligator clips on the other. Useful for getting power to things on the bench for which you don't have a matching power cable. The aligator clips are easier to attach to George W Bush's scrotum, to see if there really is more than 5% brain function. Mind you, that's reputedly the area where most of the function would concentrate, apart from the nasal membranes. geoff |
#31
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Nobody wants to steal double-male mic cables.
It's a STUPID thing and hotels and institutuional installs stopped doing it decades ago on the whole due to client rants. On 3/22/05 9:49 PM, in article , "Hal Laurent" wrote: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore |
#32
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:13:38 GMT, Mike T wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:49:59 -0500, "Hal Laurent" wrote: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore Well, I heard a different story when I was growing up in this business. Here's the way it went: Most professional recording and broadcast mics had male connectors on them: UA (for United Artists), type P (for Paramount Studios), or Tuchel (for anything German). Then Cannon introduce the new, miniature XLR connector. Still, mics had male connectors and the inputs to preamps were female, because if you used a male connector with exposed pins for a mic level input, it put one hell of a nasty hum into the system when somebody touched one of the exposed pins. This was even before +48V phantom power became a standard, so exposed voltage was not a consideration. WAY back when I was in my first years of elementary school, we ate lunch in the "Multipurpose Room" . . you know . .that gym that architetects try to pawn off as "You don't NEED an auditorium . . . " ANYWHO, anyone who got out of control got to "stand by himself" . . nowadays they'd call it a "Timeout" but back then they imagined it was punishment to be dragged to the front of the room so that all your peers could see the Cool Kid . . . but I digress. "Timeout" was always in front of the stage, where there was, at convenient kid level, a mic input to the building sound system. For reasons probably fathomed only by the administration, this input was ALWAYS live. I'd wager no one knew how to turn it on or off so they left it on so it would be available for the next PTO meeting. Clever kids being clever kids, it took us about half a second to realize that by sticking your finger in the mic input when the monitor wasn't watching, you could generate a LOUDLOUDLOUDLOUDLOUDLOUD HUMMMMMMMMMMM. But still they persisted in thinking sending us to stand there was "punishment." Go fig. |
#33
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#34
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If anyone is paying attention, this post actually contains the answer
to the question. Carry on. On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:13:38 GMT, Mike T. wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:49:59 -0500, "Hal Laurent" wrote: One of my neighbors called me yesterday, asking if I could help the local elementary school with their announcement microphone, which had "broken". I said "sure, I'll take a look". It turned out the plug had come off the end of the microphone cable, so I took it home and soldered it back on. Testing the microphone (a Telex 253 if anyone cares) at home was a bit of an adventure, as it had a female XLR on the output plug rather than the usual male XLR, so I had to cobble up an adaptor. Which brings me to my question...when did the current convention of female XLRs on inputs and male on outputs start? Is this a relatively recent thing, or is the equipment at this school really, really old? Hal Laurent Baltimore Well, I heard a different story when I was growing up in this business. Here's the way it went: Most professional recording and broadcast mics had male connectors on them: UA (for United Artists), type P (for Paramount Studios), or Tuchel (for anything German). Then Cannon introduce the new, miniature XLR connector. Still, mics had male connectors and the inputs to preamps were female, because if you used a male connector with exposed pins for a mic level input, it put one hell of a nasty hum into the system when somebody touched one of the exposed pins. This was even before +48V phantom power became a standard, so exposed voltage was not a consideration. Non-pro microphones used high-impedance unbalanced connections with various connectors, including a Amphenol coaxial with screw sleeve. This is why microphones like the EV 664 had an impedance switch. But a US company called Bogen decided to use balanced low-impedance microphone inputs on their PA systems for schools. However, after spending all that money on input transformers for their tube preamp circuit, they didn't like the cost of the female XLR panel-mount connector. The males XLRs were cheaper, and schools (even then) always bought from the lowest bidder, so that's what they used, and they were the first manufacturer of school PA systems with balanced mic inputs. Male XLR became the new standard for the mic inputs of school PA systems, and other manufacturers went along with it, including Dukane and University. Movie and recording studios still used female XLR for mic inputs. Many adapter cables were made. School PA mic cables always had female XLR connectors on both ends. And that's the story they told me, back when dinosaurs roamed and the EV 666 was the mic of choice for PA. Mike T. Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org |
#35
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"Willie K.Yee, M.D If anyone is paying attention, this post actually contains the answer to the question. ** How the hell would YOU know ????? ............. Phil |
#36
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FINALLY !!! FINALLY !!!FINALLY !!! I have been RECOGNIZED!!! The Phil has deigned to dope-slap me with one of his inane adolescent hostile comments!! I was beginning to feel a bit inferior. Or maybe it was because he knows I am a shrink and can comprehend the depth of his psychopathology. Doesn't matter now. I am up to date with the elite of R.A.P. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:47:56 +1100, "Phil Allison" wrote: "Willie K.Yee, M.D If anyone is paying attention, this post actually contains the answer to the question. ** How the hell would YOU know ????? ............ Phil Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org |
#37
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Willie K.Yee, M.D. wrote:
FINALLY !!! FINALLY !!!FINALLY !!! I have been RECOGNIZED!!! The Phil has deigned to dope-slap me with one of his inane adolescent hostile comments!! I was beginning to feel a bit inferior. Or maybe it was because he knows I am a shrink and can comprehend the depth of his psychopathology. Doesn't matter now. I am up to date with the elite of R.A.P. Get over yourself; his ewe begged off. Left him with slime on his hands. -- ha |
#38
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You deserved waaay more asterisks than you actually received. ;-)
DM "Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote in message ... FINALLY !!! FINALLY !!!FINALLY !!! I have been RECOGNIZED!!! The Phil has deigned to dope-slap me with one of his inane adolescent hostile comments!! I was beginning to feel a bit inferior. Or maybe it was because he knows I am a shrink and can comprehend the depth of his psychopathology. Doesn't matter now. I am up to date with the elite of R.A.P. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:47:56 +1100, "Phil Allison" wrote: "Willie K.Yee, M.D If anyone is paying attention, this post actually contains the answer to the question. * * How the hell would YOU know ????? ............ Phil |
#39
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In article wkyeeATbestwebDOTnet writes: I have been RECOGNIZED!!! The Phil has deigned to dope-slap me with one of his inane adolescent hostile comments!! Welcome to the club. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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