[Alan[_4_]]

Hi,

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.
I have a lot of analogue nice pre amps and want to still use them as
the heart of the studio but want to get them into the digital realm as
transparently as possible.
I also need the D/A to be as portable as possible as I do a lot of
location recordings.
I have narrowed it down to two products; REM Firefire 800 or Metric
Halo Mobile I/O 2882 but can't decide which to buy.
Any thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be really
appreciated.

Regards

Alan

[DanoWpg[_2_]]

What are you using as a ProTools interface?

Alan wrote:
Hi,

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.
I have a lot of analogue nice pre amps and want to still use them as
the heart of the studio but want to get them into the digital realm as
transparently as possible.
I also need the D/A to be as portable as possible as I do a lot of
location recordings.
I have narrowed it down to two products; REM Firefire 800 or Metric
Halo Mobile I/O 2882 but can't decide which to buy.
Any thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be really
appreciated.

Regards

Alan

[Alan[_4_]]

On Feb 28, 9:07*pm, DanoWpg wrote:
What are you using as a ProTools interface?

Alan wrote:
Hi,

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.
I have a lot of analogue nice pre amps and want to still use them as
the heart of the studio but want to get them into the digital realm as
transparently as possible.
I also need the D/A to be as portable as possible as I do a lot of
location recordings.
I have narrowed it down to two products; REM Firefire 800 or Metric
Halo Mobile I/O 2882 but can't decide which to buy.
Any thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be really
appreciated.

Regards

Alan

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

[Scott Dorsey]

Alan wrote:

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

Good enough. Considered the Ampex 440-8 then?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Feb 28, 6:26 pm, Alan wrote:

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

Perhaps you're not familiar with the acronym DAW? That's the software
that's used for recording and mixing. If you don't need that, you
don't need a Firefire (is that maybe Fireface?) 800 or Metric Halo
Mobile I/O.

Metric Halo hardware, by the way, only has drivers for a Macintosh
computer, so if you're using a PC, forget that one.

[Mike Rivers]

On Feb 28, 2:10 pm, Alan wrote:

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.

Oops! Well OK on the Mac, but ProTools requires specific audio
hardware. The RME Fireface or Metric Halo Mobile I/O won't work with
it. Look into Digidesign or M-Audio for compatible ProTools hardware.
You'll probably want to look for an interface for your computer that
has ADAT optical I/O and A/D converters with ADAT optical outputs. M-
Audio makes a 32-channel (4 ADAT ports) M-Powered ProTools compatible
interface. RME makes the ADI-8S 8-channel A/D/A converter which is of
comparable quality to the Fireface 800, but without the mic preamps.

[rboy]

Forget about RME and new Apple laptops. Apple shifted over to Agere
FW chipsets in laptops manufactued since 11/1/08 (IIRC), and they are
nightmares for audio. RME says "not compatible". It's a problem
with many interfaces, not just RME, but RME is the only one to come
out and say "This is not up to us to solve", which is just them
stating the truth. Haven't found any info of the sort on the MOTU
site, though I can vouch for people with Agere FW and MOTU hardware
ready to trash them all.

Here's their forum: http://rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1475&p=1

"Our examination of the problem showed that the Agere chip causes the
Firefaces to issue a FireWire bus reset shortly after start of data
transmission (isochronous mode). We tried a Motu 828 for comparison
and found this to be affected as well (everything seemed to work, but
playback did not start).

Therefore we have to declare this chip and all related products as
incompatible, and expect a fix (if any) from Agere's side, by either
firmware or driver updates."

So this has been an issue since November and Apple is still silent on
it )go to Apple discussions and search Agere under the MBP section)

Also Google Agere Apple and limit the search to the past 3 months.

My understanding is that Metric Halo boxes are not affected. But that
still
l leaves you needing to get software.

[rboy]

On Feb 28, 7:26*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Feb 28, 2:10 pm, Alan wrote:

The RME Fireface or Metric Halo Mobile I/O won't work with
it.

Not so, Mike. You do need a Digi interface to boot the program, but
I use Mobile I/Os as a front end for PT all the time. Just get the
cheapest Digi inteface with digital ins.

http://www.mhsecure.com/technotes/TechNote_0001.php

[Mike Rivers]

On Feb 28, 8:30 pm, rboy wrote:

Not so, Mike. You do need a Digi interface to boot the program, but
I use Mobile I/Os as a front end for PT all the time. Just get the
cheapest Digi inteface with digital ins.

When I finally figured out what he wanted to do, that's essentially
what I suggested. I was guessing that he wanted more than just a
stereo input since he was asking about multi-channel interfaces.

[Alan[_4_]]

On Feb 29, 3:13*am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Feb 28, 8:30 pm, rboy wrote:

Not so, Mike. * You do need a Digi interface to boot the program, but
I use Mobile I/Os as a front end for PT all the time. *Just get the
cheapest Digi inteface with digital ins.

When I finally figured out what he wanted to do, that's essentially
what I suggested. I was guessing that he wanted more than just a
stereo input since he was asking about multi-channel interfaces.

That's about right in addition to my usual studio tracking stuff I
record choral work, which require more than the one mic.
I do not need all 8 ''in's'' to have pre amps as I have some excellent
racked one but I do require the D/A to be pretty transparent.

[WillStG]

On Feb 28, 6:26*pm, Alan wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:07*pm, DanoWpg wrote:



What are you using as a ProTools interface?

Alan wrote:
Hi,

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.
I have a lot of analogue nice pre amps and want to still use them as
the heart of the studio but want to get them into the digital realm as
transparently as possible.
I also need the D/A to be as portable as possible as I do a lot of
location recordings.
I have narrowed it down to two products; REM Firefire 800 or Metric
Halo Mobile I/O 2882 but can't decide which to buy.
Any thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be really
appreciated.

Regards

Alan

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

On Feb 28, 6:26 pm, Alan wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:07 pm, DanoWpg wrote:



What are you using as a ProTools interface?

Alan wrote:
Hi,

I am in the process of pulling together a digital studio running pro
tools on a Macbook Pro.
I have a lot of analogue nice pre amps and want to still use them as
the heart of the studio but want to get them into the digital realm as
transparently as possible.
I also need the D/A to be as portable as possible as I do a lot of
location recordings.
I have narrowed it down to two products; REM Firefire 800 or Metric
Halo Mobile I/O 2882 but can't decide which to buy.
Any thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be really
appreciated.

Regards

Alan

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

If you have a Mac, the Metric Halo boxes have mixing and
multitracking ability with the included Mobile I/O software. And the
+DSP versions have a bunch of powerful plug ins for inserting before
tracking, after tracking, and for multiple headphone mixes. The
converters are great, the micpres sound good but if you need
exceptional quiet you have to use mics with hot outputs. I'd use an
external micpre with ribbon mics, for example.

The +DSP versions are also functional in a DAW as an external
plugin unit, the new "MIOConsoleConnect" plugins give a DAW direct
access to the box from audio tracks, for processing with the MH
internal plugins or mixing, bussing, extra outs, etc. Except for
Protools which has some limitations on that.

Links to "how to" videos at the Metric Halo website are here.
http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/MIOv4/MIOv4.shtml

Haven't used the RME stuff, but the MH Labs boxes do integrate
nicely when you stack several together.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Alan[_4_]]

A correction, I'm getting my acronyms mixed up I will be using pro
tools or Logic.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On Feb 28, 6:26 pm, Alan wrote:

I'm not I'm not sure I need a D.A.W to start with. Although it is
something I desire in the long run at the moment it's not a priority.

Perhaps you're not familiar with the acronym DAW? That's the software
that's used for recording and mixing. If you don't need that, you
don't need a Firefire (is that maybe Fireface?) 800 or Metric Halo
Mobile I/O.

Metric Halo hardware, by the way, only has drivers for a Macintosh
computer, so if you're using a PC, forget that one.

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.

This is as ergonomically close to old-style analog "hit Red and roll!"
recording as I have yet found in the computerized digital audio tracking
world.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:43:02 -0800, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Metric Halo hardware, by the way, only has drivers for a Macintosh
computer, so if you're using a PC, forget that one.

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

You mean they bundle a rudimentary DAW in the control applet?

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.

This is as ergonomically close to old-style analog "hit Red and roll!"
recording as I have yet found in the computerized digital audio tracking
world.

That bad, eh? :-)

[hank alrich]

Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:43:02 -0800, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Metric Halo hardware, by the way, only has drivers for a Macintosh
computer, so if you're using a PC, forget that one.

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

You mean they bundle a rudimentary DAW in the control applet?

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.

This is as ergonomically close to old-style analog "hit Red and roll!"
recording as I have yet found in the computerized digital audio tracking
world.

That bad, eh? :-)

Yep, gotta push a "button"!

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 7, 5:43 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.

But this is a virtual panel, right? For a Mac, right? I'm pretty sure
that the software application that RME ships with their Fireface
interfaces offers a direct recording (no DAW needed) feature.

You had my hope up there for a minute. Past several shows I've been
passing by Metric Halo's booth without stopping, in mock protest of
their lack of PC support.

Mytek (a company we don't hear much about these days, but they're
still apparently in business and still making good converters) once
showed a prototype of an A/D/A box with a set of real transport
buttons on the real hardware panel, to which you could attach a disk
drive (SCSI, I think) and use it as a recorder. I don't think it ever
happened, though.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On Mar 7, 5:43 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.

But this is a virtual panel, right? For a Mac, right?

Yes, and yes. But I know folks who are running all their Windows on a
Mac these days.

I'm pretty sure
that the software application that RME ships with their Fireface
interfaces offers a direct recording (no DAW needed) feature.

Yes, it does. MH beat them to it.

You had my hope up there for a minute. Past several shows I've been
passing by Metric Halo's booth without stopping, in mock protest of
their lack of PC support.

I don't think they're going to change that. Once upojn a time when
Logic, for instance, was cross-platform, PC users were a minority, but
cost of support for them far exceeded that for the more numerous
Macsters. MH is a very small company and there are plenty enough
Macsters to keep them growing.

Mytek (a company we don't hear much about these days, but they're
still apparently in business and still making good converters) once
showed a prototype of an A/D/A box with a set of real transport
buttons on the real hardware panel, to which you could attach a disk
drive (SCSI, I think) and use it as a recorder. I don't think it ever
happened, though.

Great idea though. We need the equivalent of an Alesis HD24 in a single
rack space.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

On Mar 7, 5:43 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

The Metric Halo MIO's Record panel will stream audio directly to disk
without an intermediary DAW app.

Arm tracks, spec a record-to folder and a playback-from folder and hit
the Red virtual button.
But this is a virtual panel, right? For a Mac, right?

Yes, and yes. But I know folks who are running all their Windows on a
Mac these days.

I'm pretty sure
that the software application that RME ships with their Fireface
interfaces offers a direct recording (no DAW needed) feature.

Yes, it does. MH beat them to it.

You had my hope up there for a minute. Past several shows I've been
passing by Metric Halo's booth without stopping, in mock protest of
their lack of PC support.

I don't think they're going to change that. Once upojn a time when
Logic, for instance, was cross-platform, PC users were a minority, but
cost of support for them far exceeded that for the more numerous
Macsters. MH is a very small company and there are plenty enough
Macsters to keep them growing.

Mytek (a company we don't hear much about these days, but they're
still apparently in business and still making good converters) once
showed a prototype of an A/D/A box with a set of real transport
buttons on the real hardware panel, to which you could attach a disk
drive (SCSI, I think) and use it as a recorder. I don't think it ever
happened, though.

Great idea though. We need the equivalent of an Alesis HD24 in a single
rack space.


1 RU isn't enough space for metering. Trying to assault the HD24
market space is probably not going to work out - the offerings
have been moving in the cost-reduction direction - 4-at-a-time
recording, that sort of thing.

Down to it, personally, I want a four-track version of the Korg MR-1000,
and I don't even need to be able to do overdubs with the unit.


--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Russell Dawkins]

Metric Halo sounds great and is astoundingly versatile.

A bonus is a very active , well-informed and civil users' forum that
is closely monitored by the designer, B.J. Buchalter.
Imagine how reassuring it is to be able to post an urgent query and be
able to get a response right from the horse's mouth, typically within
15 - 30 minutes, and even on Saturdays and Sundays!
There are good reasons these are popular with some heavy hitters. You
often get what you pay for, but in this case I think you get a
disproportionate etra value for the small price premium over
competitors.

Each MIO 2882 can record 18 tracks at once (8 analog, 8 digital via
ADAT lightpipe and 2 more digital through AES or SPDIF) and they can
easily be linked.

There was a discussion on the Metric Halo forum about the Fireface
800, and the results favored the MIO 2882, but I can't remember the
details. You could do a search, though: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/mobileio

[Russell Dawkins]

Metric Halo sounds great and is astoundingly versatile.

I consider it irreplaceable in my studio, and almost all of my work is
location recording.

A bonus is a very active , well-informed and civil users' forum that
is closely monitored by the designer, B.J. Buchalter.

Imagine how reassuring it is to be able to post an urgent query and be
able to get a response right from the horse's mouth, typically within
15 - 30 minutes, often even on Saturdays and Sundays!

There are good reasons these are popular with some heavy hitters. You
often get what you pay for, but in this case I think you get a
disproportionate extra value for the small price premium over
competitors.

Each MIO 2882 can record 18 tracks at once (8 analog, 8 digital via
ADAT lightpipe and 2 more digital through AES or SPDIF) and they can
easily be linked.

There was a discussion on the Metric Halo forum about the Fireface
800, and the results favored the MIO 2882, but I can't remember the
details, partly because I wasn't looking for other options.
You could do a search, though: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/mobileio

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 13:51:33 -0800 (PST), Russell Dawkins
wrote:

There was a discussion on the Metric Halo forum about the Fireface
800, and the results favored the MIO 2882, but I can't remember the
details, partly because I wasn't looking for other options.
You could do a search, though: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/mobileio

As that forum is presumably inhabited by MH owners, anything other
than outright condemnation of a competing product might be considered
an accolade :-)

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 8, 2:04 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

1 RU isn't enough space for metering.

Not for true VU-style or peak meters, but it may be possible to design
a meaningful meter using those 10 LED modules the size of a 14-pin
DIP. Perhaps a scale like:

0
-1
-2
-3
-6
-8
-10
-16
-20
-30

Also, remember that once you know how things are calibrated, there's
probably another place to monitor levels. The box could generate a
tone that you could feed to the mixer to calibrate the mixer's meters
so that they'd indicate record level.

Trying to assault the HD24
market space is probably not going to work out - the offerings
have been moving in the cost-reduction direction - 4-at-a-time
recording, that sort of thing.

There's still a market for people who want to record live shows
without the haywire.

[hank alrich]

Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 13:51:33 -0800 (PST), Russell Dawkins
wrote:

There was a discussion on the Metric Halo forum about the Fireface
800, and the results favored the MIO 2882, but I can't remember the
details, partly because I wasn't looking for other options.
You could do a search, though:
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/mobileio

As that forum is presumably inhabited by MH owners, anything other
than outright condemnation of a competing product might be considered
an accolade :-)

If you hang the forum you'll see that folks are not shy when they feel
some other piece of kit is better in any way than something from MHL.
Happens fairly often as people look to MH to match whatever it is they
like in something else.

And that's not the only place I'm reading about people preferring the
2882 to the FF800.

RME is a fine company and offers gret kit. Same for MH, and conversion
quality of their boxes is extraordinary bang-for-buck, IMO.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill wrote:

1 RU isn't enough space for metering.

Wanted to come back to this, Les, because after digging into the thread
about tracking to digital at low levels on Terry Manning's "Whatever
Works" PSW forum I have radically altered my recording level-setting
practices. And the result of this is that I am now fully satisfied with
what I get to storage. I'm now tracking such that it is rare for a
signal to get _above_ -20 dBFS. Seriously. And it is working SO much
better for me.

The upshot of this is that metering no better than that on the face of
an MIO would work just fine for me. I don't worry anymore about small
increments of level while tracking. If something goes in at -30 it still
comes out better than if I put it in at -6.

It wasn't easy for me to try this; I found it completely
counterintuitive. But damn, it sure has helped my relationship to
digital recording.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[[email protected]]

On 2008-03-09 (hankalrich) said:
Wanted to come back to this, Les, because after digging into the
thread about tracking to digital at low levels on Terry Manning's
"Whatever Works" PSW forum I have radically altered my recording
level-setting practices. And the result of this is that I am now
fully satisfied with what I get to storage.

I stumbled upon this years ago when first going to digital,
yes 44.1 16 bit.
Now Hank I'm sure can picture my work flow, but for some of
the rest let me explain.

I'm doing a multitrack session. Being a blind man I've
brought my audible vu meters. YES they're not digital
meters, they're vu that at a preset level make a noise, a
little pip if we just touch it, solid tone if we stay there
or above. IOw they're voltage sensing.
they're set for the nominal level, whether we're using
consumer -10 or pro +4.
sInce I've one unit I can monitor only one channel, move
rotary switch to check on other channels.
I've only four channels of these, and they cost me a
kilobuck. I've done calibration with them so that a sine
wave at 1 khz showing me what would be 0 vu at the output
we're using give me a signal of about -12 on digital meters,
with some sighted assistance of course.

Whole band playing at once, but we're actually only keeping
bass and drums first pass. I can switch between my four
channels of vu on the box, but actually only monitor one at
a time. I'm still recording more sources than I have vu.

so even though it's counterintuitive to a lot of folks, we
run levels rather conserative. BYdoing so, we still get
satisfactory recordings, and the only clunkers are those
caused by the musos, not by the guy behind the glass.

I found i worried less during tracking sessions this way and
still got good tracks.

Regards,




Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

I'm doing a multitrack session. Being a blind man I've
brought my audible vu meters. YES they're not digital
meters, they're vu that at a preset level make a noise, a
little pip if we just touch it, solid tone if we stay there
or above. IOw they're voltage sensing.
they're set for the nominal level, whether we're using
consumer -10 or pro +4.
sInce I've one unit I can monitor only one channel, move
rotary switch to check on other channels.
I've only four channels of these, and they cost me a
kilobuck. I've done calibration with them so that a sine
wave at 1 khz showing me what would be 0 vu at the output
we're using give me a signal of about -12 on digital meters,
with some sighted assistance of course.

Have you considered using good old-fashioned VU meters with the covers
taken off? You can hear them go "ping" against the stop when they peg,
and you can put your finger on the back and feel where the needle is.
Probably expensive, but much less than a thousand bucks a channel.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 9, 2:25 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Doesn't really matter - nobody local has been willing to
spend $500 for a gig capture, anyway. They'd rather DIY.

Recognizing this has saved me from purchasing a lot of gear. ;-(

[[email protected]]

On 2008-03-09 (ScottDorsey) said:
I've only four channels of these, and they cost me a
kilobuck.
snip
Have you considered using good old-fashioned VU meters with the
covers taken off? You can hear them go "ping" against the stop
when they peg, and you can put your finger on the back and feel
where the needle is. Probably expensive, but much less than a
thousand bucks a channel. --scott
DOne that. Btw this was a kilobuck for the four channel
unit.
tHe nice thing is the switchability between consumer and pro
levels, easily patched in. Also the ability to monitor
program and the meter with headphones.
SInce then I"ve found shcematics and descriptions for
similar which will keep costs down.
I've also got plans for vibrating meters in project boxes
using those little ibrator motors like cell phones and
pagers use, good for live when spl is high.
wear one in each pocket close to the body g.

tHe units I had before Katrina and the resulting fire were
made by Science for the BLind, and one home brew from plans
I found elsewhere.

Have worked a couple of sessions with good old vu meters
with face removed for this purpose. IF folks would monitor
at reasonable level I could indeed hear the meter tap the
pin g.



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.