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Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 4th 20, 07:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10
where NONE of the extent how to articles actually
tell you what you actually really need to do!

Here's what happened...

1. I read this post about an hour or so ago on the a.c.f newsgroup:
o The nice thing about Audacity
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/S1IXPT3xk7g>
Which says this one line:
"It can record the music from a youtube live stream."

2. Being infinitely curious about all tool functionality, I tried
Audacity but failed even after reading a dozen web tutorials.

3. In the end, Audacity worked - but the point I'm making is that
absolutely NONE of the tutorials explained the _necessary_
missing step (which is apparently required only on newer versions
of Windows 10 as explained below).

NOTE: If you're NOT on the later versions of Windows 10, most of the
tutorials "should" work; but this is an example where they don't.

===< below is my ad hoc log just now attempting to do this >===
a. Googling for tutorials, here what I try (all failed), in sequence:
<https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001137.htm>
<https://www.aimersoft.com/record-music/audacity-youtube.html>
<https://www.labnol.org/software/record-streaming-audio/5000/>
<https://audacityguide.com/audacity-records-computer-audio>
<https://audacity.wonderhowto.com/how-to/record-streaming-audio-from-internet-with-audacity-296750/>
<https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/how-to-capture-save-record-or-download-streaming-audio-for-free/>
<https://www.widsmob.com/tips/capture-youtube-audio.html> (worthless)
<https://www.easeus.com/screen-recording-tips/record-youtube-audio.html>
<https://davescomputertips.com/how-to-record-internet-audio-with-audacity/>

Note: Not only do they all omit important information, they conflict.
This is the key reason why most tutorials suck.

b. Find a short YouTube test video to record the audio stream of.
o Bill Gates Remembers Richard Feynman - Bill Gates - 5/11/2018
<https://youtu.be/HotLmqYFKKg>

Test that you "can" download just the M4A audio from that URL:
youtube-dl.exe -f 140 https://youtu.be/HotLmqYFKKg
[youtube] HotLmqYFKKg: Downloading webpage
[youtube] HotLmqYFKKg: Downloading MPD manifest
[dashsegments] Total fragments: 15
[download] Destination: Bill Gates Remembers Richard Feynman - Bill Gates - 5_11_2018-HotLmqYFKKg.m4a
[download] 100% of 2.08MiB in 01:57
[ffmpeg] Correcting container in "Bill Gates Remembers Richard Feynman - Bill Gates - 5_11_2018-HotLmqYFKKg.m4a"

move "Bill Gates Remembers Richard Feynman - Bill Gates - 5_11_2018-HotLmqYFKKg.m4a" gates_feynman.m4a
Name: gates_feynman.m4a
Size: 2174708 bytes (2123 KiB)
SHA256: 748707B94311B10B19E45EAB99DEE3495E36BC91BDA062B3C5 02DDF1AD1B720B

Doubleclick on the audio to ensure it plays (VLC, MPC-BE, WMP, whatever).

c. Install Audacity from the canonical site only (caveat emptor):
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/>
<https://www.audacityteam.org/>
<https://www.audacityteam.org/download/>
<https://www.audacityteam.org/download/windows/>
<https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity.html>
<https://download.fosshub.com/<gibberish>/audacity-2.4.2.zip>
Save to X:\archive\editor\audio\audacity\audacity-2.4.2.zip
Name: audacity-2.4.2.zip
Size: 11713880 bytes (11 MiB)
SHA256: 0C14F7C6850C93B9DACC14FE66876B8DC3397D92DBD8498987 83A21BAD1FFF55
Extract to c:\app\editor\audio\audacity\{...files...}
Name: audacity.exe
Size: 12676096 bytes (12 MiB)
SHA256: 02239A8C897496BA9F03AC967AF2CA5A03221BE83D8E733909 7EDBFFC2B96E37
Compare hash with that on the web site:
<https://www.audacityteam.org/download/online-safety-when-downloading/#validate>
Create a shortcut:
FILESPEC c:\menu\editor\audio\audacity.lnk
TARGET C:\app\editor\audio\audacity\audacity.exe
STARTIN %appdata%\0 (which doesn't exist)
COMMENT Audacity

d. Do we still need to install LAME and/or FFMPEG separately?
I don't know.
This just loops back to the Audacity web site:
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/?s=install&i=lame-mp3>

e. The "Stereo Mix" option "may" not be available if you do not have an
external sound card (i.e., in an expansion slot) versus an integrated
sound card (i.e., on the motherboard). I happen to have an expansion
card mounted GeForce 210 graphics card & AMD integrated graphics GPU
on the motherboard (i.e., I have both types).

f. Start Audacity & check the version so we're on the same version:
taskbar > menu > editor > audio > audacity
Audacity:Help > About Audacity ==> Audacity 2.4.2

g. Check that you "can" record as you'll need "Stereo Mix":
Audacity:Edit > Preferences > Devices > Recording
Device: [?]
Channels: [?]
Mine said "No devices found" & nothing else was in the drop down entry.

h. Set the computer so that you "can" record via "Stereo Mix":
Win+R > control > View by: Category
Hardware and sound > Sound > Playback
Make sure that the Speakers are checked with a green checkmark.
Hardware and sound > Sound > Recording
Rightclick in a blank area & check "Show Disabled Devices"
Mine said: Stereo Mix, Realtek High Definition Audio, Disabled
When I rightclicked to set that to "Enabled" I got a notification:
"Your privacy settings blocked access to the microphone"
(It went away before I could click on the settings though.)
Close & restart Audacity and "Stereo Mix (Realtek High Definiti)"
shows up where it didn't show up before.

You should now have:
Audacity:Edit > Preferences > Devices > Recording
Device: [Stereo Mix (Realtek High Defini)]
Channels: [2 (Stereo)]

Press OK to close the preferences menu setup.

i. In your favorite browser, start playing the YouTube video:
<https://youtu.be/HotLmqYFKKg>

j. In Audacity, attempt to record the video that is now playing:
Audacity:Transport > Recording > Record
I got:
Error
Error opening recording device.
Error code: -9999 Unanticipated host error.

k. So I switched off the VPN and tried again but got the same error.
I should note I don't have a microphone, but the speaker plays youtube.

l. Some tutorials say to set it to MME & others to WASAPI but both fail:
Audacity:Edit > Preferences > Devices > Host:
(Mine was set to [MME])
Change that to: [Windows WASAPI]
It still fails.

m. Look up the colors of the 1/8th-inch stereo ports on my motherboard:
Pink = Microphone in
Blue Stereo in
Green Speaker out

n. One option I tried was to connect a 1/8th-inch stereo male-to-male
loopback cable into the green (headphone out) & pink (mic in) ports.
But it still failed.

o. Giving up on the lousy tutorials, I resort to googling the error.
(bearing in mind I do NOT have a microphone)
<https://github.com.cnpmjs.org/audacity/audacity/issues/663>
<https://appuals.com/audacity-error-code-9999-unanticipated-host-error/>
<https://www.windowsdispatch.com/fix-audacity-error-code-9999-unanticipated-host/>
<https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/fix-audacity-error-opening-sound-device-issue/>
<https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001194.htm>
<https://www.techjunkie.com/audacity-error-opening-sound-device-how-to-fix/>
<https://sourceforge.net/p/audacity/mailman/message/36531828/>
Possibilities (according to the above cites)
a. Microphone access is restricted.
b. Antivirus conflict
c. Skype/Zoom conflict
d. Ensure the external sound device is plugged in (desktop only)
e. Ensure the external sound device is enabled
f. Ensure audio device settings in Audacity are configured correctly
g. Turn off Software Playthrough in Audacity
h. Update the audio driver
i. Restart the Windows Audio Endpoint Builder service

Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone
Turn everything on that you can.

p. Now go back & play the video without VPN and press the Audacity "Record"
Let it finish in 2:14 minutes & watch the pretty blue waveforms scroll.
Then press the square Audacity "Stop" button.

Note: I do NOT have a microphone, nor am I using the loopback cable;
but I do have a 1/8th-inch jack tying the motherboard (green) output
to a powered speaker on my desktop.

q. Save it.
Audacity:File > Export > Export as MP3 > untitled.mp3
The good news is we apparently no longer need LAME/FFMPEG nowadays.

Name: untitled.mp3
Size: 3256048 bytes (3179 KiB)
SHA256: 18228637C3B052AE74556DAE78E9270AD01FA544F0A2A70DF9 0E5919943470B2
===< above is my ad hoc log just now attempting to do this >===
--
This is posted as an example of the fact that most tutorials don't work.
Ads
  #2  
Old November 4th 20, 04:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:01:17 +0000 (UTC), Nicodemus wrote:

> I have no microphone, was simply watching a youtube video and launched
> Audacity and hit the record button, then stopped recording and then saved
> as .mp3. On a Linum Mint desktop.


Hi Nicodemus,

I completely understand your experience, since it naturally "just works"
for you by default (and I had "thought" it would just work for me too!).

I too had figured it would only take a couple of minutes, instead of an
hour (although documentation always takes a lot longer than just doing it).

The problem is the "if then else" setup questions which need to be part of
any decent tutorial, and which were not part of any tutorial that I found.

What's not intuitive is that the latest versions of Windows 10, by default,
disable the microphone, which, given neither of us _have_ a microphone,
you'd "think" wouldn't matter.

Even those these later versions of Windows 10 also disable any app to have
access to that microphone - again, you'd "think" that wouldn't matter.

And yet it does matter.
o Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone

Worse, other gotchas "may" matter, such as:
o Does the person have only an integrated sound card
o Do they need a 1/8th-inch M:M greenink loopback mic-to-speaker jumper
o Do we need to install LAME/FFMPEG anymore (the answer is no!)
etc.

Confusingly, some tutorials said to set the "Host" but they conflicted:
Audacity:Edit > Preferences > Devices > Host:
o [MME])
o [Windows WASAPI]
Where, I must confess, I don't even know what those letters mean!

In summary, a good tutorial needs to add a few "tests" up front:
a. Is the recording apparatus working (even sans microphone)?
b. Does the integrated sound card or PCI extension card record audio?
c. Is a male-to-male 1/8th-inch loopback jumper needed?

What would be nice is if the team could supply those tests.
o That way, the _next_ person has an easier time (which is always the goal)
--
Part of the high cost of freeware is in figuring out how to use it.
  #3  
Old November 4th 20, 04:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Paul[_21_]
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Posts: 9
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONEof the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10
> where NONE of the extent how to articles actually
> tell you what you actually really need to do!
>
> Here's what happened...
>
> 1. I read this post about an hour or so ago on the a.c.f newsgroup:
> o The nice thing about Audacity
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/S1IXPT3xk7g>
> Which says this one line:
> "It can record the music from a youtube live stream."
>
> 2. Being infinitely curious about all tool functionality, I tried
> Audacity but failed even after reading a dozen web tutorials.
>
> <snippage>
>
> Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone
> Turn everything on that you can.
>


"Allow desktop apps to access your microphone"

+-------+
| | X | "On"
+-------+

Audacity is a desktop app of the Win32 persuasion,
rather than a Metro one.

You also need that when doing things like WebRTC video
conferences with a web browser, as that is a desktop application.

*******

My Win10 20H2 was missing Stereo Mix.

What an adventure.

This recipe was spot on. And you have to be careful, if you slide in
even one extra reboot at the wrong time, you have to go back and
do the previous step again :-/ The name of the UAA item is changed,
it's "High Definition Audio Controller", driver incl. hdaudbus.sys
and that's how you know it's the right one. I had two Device Manager
entries and disabled/uninstalled both as described here.

https://www.techwalla.com/articles/m...r-wont-install

Some pictures.

https://i.postimg.cc/g0WdQhnf/audio-fix.gif

Name: 0008-64bit_Win7_Win8_Win81_Win10_R281.exe <=== Realtek driver used
Size: 217553063 bytes (207 MiB)
SHA1: 2404B101CA214BCB2E9970DB528180FBF888B30E

Paul
  #4  
Old November 4th 20, 07:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 10:57:54 -0500, Paul wrote:

> "Allow desktop apps to access your microphone"
> +-------+
>| | X | "On"
> +-------+


Hi Paul,

I appreciate your always purposefully helpful advice as not only do I learn
more from your help, but others who are lurking will also benefit greatly.

Thanks for clarifying that because the goal, always, is a tutorial that
others can use so they would be up & running in minutes, not hours.

I must admit that I don't even know what the "microphone" has to do with
it, 'cuz I don't even _have_ a microphone on my desktop!

Nonetheless, in my frustration, I turned on _everything_ I could:
o Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone
Where it seems, from what you wrote, I only needed to turn on:
o Allow desktop apps to access your microphone = on

Ooops.

I just tested that setting and you need _another_ setting:
o Allow apps to access your microphone = On

What's confusing is that my desktop doesn't even have a mic!

Worse, the tutorials conflictingly said to set the "Host:" to:
o Audacity:Edit > Preferences > Devices > Host:
[MME])
[Windows WASAPI]
Where they don't even explain what the difference is.

googling for what the terms mean:
<https://www.swee****er.com/sweetcare/articles/roland-difference-between-asio-wdm-mme-drivers/>
o MME === Microsoft Multimedia Environment
o WASAPI === Windows Audio Session API
o WDM === Windows Driver Model
o ASIO === Audio Streaming Input / Output
o DirectSound === Direct Sound

Looking it up, it apparently doesn't matter all that much, so the tutorials
should just say that (instead of telling us to use one or the other).
<https://superuser.com/questions/895525/mme-windows-directsound-or-wasapi>
o MME: (multimedia events)
The Audacity default and the most compatible with all audio devices.
o Windows DirectSound:
More recent than MME with potentially less latency.
o Windows WASAPI:
WASAPI is particularly useful for "loopback" devices for recording
computer playback. 24-bit recording devices are supported.
Playback is emulated using this host.

It's not clear to me though _when_ you need "loopback recording":
<https://docs.microsoft.com/de-de/windows/win32/coreaudio/loopback-recording>

> Audacity is a desktop app of the Win32 persuasion,
> rather than a Metro one.


Ah. Thanks. I didn't know what a "desktop" app was, since, well, as you may
know, I have zero "metro" apps (I don't even have a Microsoft Account),
although I guess I have the "default" Microsoft apps which "may" be Metro.

> You also need that when doing things like WebRTC video
> conferences with a web browser, as that is a desktop application.


I'm not sure what "WebRTC" is, but if you're doing a conference with a web
browser, then you definitely _need_ an actual microphone, don't you?

Looking up WebRTC:
o <https://bloggeek.me/what-is-webrtc/>
"WebRTC enables voice communication to work inside HTML5 pages"

OK. But you _still_ need a "real" microphone for that, right?

What was unintuitive about "this" error was that you don't need a
microphone for Audacity to record the audio.

It's not intuitive you need the non-existent "microphone" to be enabled.

> https://www.techwalla.com/articles/m...r-wont-install
> Some pictures.
> https://i.postimg.cc/g0WdQhnf/audio-fix.gif


Note that in that picture, _above_ of what you imaged is that there is yet
_another_ microphone setting which _also_ must be turned on (I think).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/nhCyRNNW/audacity01.jpg>

So you need to turn on _two_ settings for Audacity to record streams
o Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone
1. Turn on "Allow apps to access your microphone" = On
2. Turn on "Allow desktop apps to access your microphone" = On
Even if you don't have a microphone (which I don't have, for example).

> Name: 0008-64bit_Win7_Win8_Win81_Win10_R281.exe <=== Realtek driver used
> Size: 217553063 bytes (207 MiB)
> SHA1: 2404B101CA214BCB2E9970DB528180FBF888B30E


Hmm. That's interesting that you apparently had to update your sound card
driver in order to get Audacity to record from streaming audio (if I
understood you correctly).

If so, this is interesting that you had to install a RealTek driver.
o I didn't have to do that for Audacity to record streaming audio sans mic

But... I've updated my drivers as described in gory detail in this thread
o Tutorial: How to update a driver that Windows just doesn't want to update
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a23fY9CM6rY>

Specifically, my RealTek driver is reported by Dumo freeware as:
o Realtek High Definition Audio Realtek 6.0.8978.1, available 6.0.9018.1
o Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller, Realtek 10.43.723.2020, available 10.45.928.2020
o Realtek USB 2.0 Card Reader, Realtek, 10.0.19041.31262, available 10.0.19041.31263

As shown in this Dumo freeware screenshot taken just now:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Y00X4TFS/audacity02.jpg>
--
See also:
o What's the one free Windows 10 driver update tool you prefer most & why?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/-yDz26GC6zA>

o How do I know when the Windows driver verifier program is running?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/NG4AzbPKsXs>

  #5  
Old November 5th 20, 12:45 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Paul[_21_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONEof the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 10:57:54 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> "Allow desktop apps to access your microphone"
>> +-------+
>> | | X | "On"
>> +-------+

>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I appreciate your always purposefully helpful advice as not only do I learn
> more from your help, but others who are lurking will also benefit greatly.
>
> Thanks for clarifying that because the goal, always, is a tutorial that
> others can use so they would be up & running in minutes, not hours.
>
> I must admit that I don't even know what the "microphone" has to do with
> it, 'cuz I don't even _have_ a microphone on my desktop!
>
> Nonetheless, in my frustration, I turned on _everything_ I could:
> o Win+R > ms-settingsrivacy-microphone
> Where it seems, from what you wrote, I only needed to turn on:
> o Allow desktop apps to access your microphone = on
>
> Ooops.
>
> I just tested that setting and you need _another_ setting:
> o Allow apps to access your microphone = On
>
> What's confusing is that my desktop doesn't even have a mic!


Microsoft uses terminology to suit the high-runner application.

The permission is more likely to be "use the ADC on the HDAudio",
meaning Mic_In, Line_In, Stereo_Mix. All of those are multiplexer
inputs feeding a stereo ADC on the HDaudio chip.

They could refine their permission to any degree they want,
but there aren't any other choices than "Microphone", and the
only way to make one control "fit" is if the control actually
owns the ADC instead. If Microsoft said "permission to use the ADC",
nobody is going to know what that is.

Paul
  #6  
Old November 5th 20, 01:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:45:56 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Microsoft uses terminology to suit the high-runner application.


I googled what "high runner" meant, but found nothing; so I assume you mean
"high end" applications, such as those which might require the sound card.

> The permission is more likely to be "use the ADC on the HDAudio",
> meaning Mic_In, Line_In, Stereo_Mix. All of those are multiplexer
> inputs feeding a stereo ADC on the HDaudio chip.


That is a good explanation, which is that Microsoft uses the term
"microphone" to mean the audio ADC input on the sound card.

> They could refine their permission to any degree they want,
> but there aren't any other choices than "Microphone", and the
> only way to make one control "fit" is if the control actually
> owns the ADC instead. If Microsoft said "permission to use the ADC",
> nobody is going to know what that is.


I noticed that in some tutorials they mentioned that the "onboard"
circuitry wouldn't allow Audacity to capture the streaming audio, while in
others they didn't mention that complication.

Since I have both onboard and the Nvidia GeForce graphics card, I wasn't
sure which ADC is being used, where I 'think' I'm using the on-board ADC
because the only sound jacks 1/8th-inch photo plugs are on the motherboard
(the Nvidia GeForce 210 has digital output but no stereo jacks).

In summary, I'm not sure how useful converting a YouTube audio to MP3 is
(using Audacity) since it can be more easily downloaded as an M4A with
youtubedl.exe; but there "might" be a use (somehow) of Audacity being able
to save streaming audio from other applications (e.g., Zoom, WebRTC,
whatever).
--
It's nice to have Audacity in our arsenal but I'm not sure how useful it is
to capture streaming audio since we likely could capture it anyway.
  #7  
Old November 5th 20, 01:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 21:36:53 +0000 (UTC), Nicodemus wrote:

> For me it says ALSA, on a Linux Mint system.
> It is a MBoard sound card.
>
> Maybe it has more to do windows10 by default making it difficult to use
> Audacity.


I think I agree with you that two things made it harder for me
1. The later Windows 10 versions turn off the ADC audio access by default
2. Not a single tutorial mentioned that this was happening

Luckily, the error message was seen by many others in the past
o So googling for the error helped me solve the problem

The good news is that by reporting that, I saved others the hassle.
o The bad news is I'm not sure how useful this capability is.

I mean, for YouTube, it's far easier to download the audio separately:
o youtube-dl.exe -f 140 https://youtu.be/HotLmqYFKKg

Where this capability of Audacity to convert streaming audio to an MP3 file
may come in handy might be for _other_ streaming audio needs, outside of
YouTube (since YouTube already has its very own well-honed downloader).

What _other_ uses (than YouTube) do folks see for this Audacity capability?
  #8  
Old November 5th 20, 02:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 06:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Note: I do NOT have a microphone, nor am I using the loopback cable;
> but I do have a 1/8th-inch jack tying the motherboard (green) output
> to a powered speaker on my desktop.


Why does Audacity only record streaming audio when a 1/8th-inch stereo
cable is connected to the speaker out (even if the other end of that cable
is hanging in mid air)?

I am NOT an audiophile... so this may be a dumb question...
o Can someone _explain_ why I need a cable (& nothing else) to record?

a. I have a desktop with no microphone
b. I have a green speaker-out 1/8th-inch stereo jack on the motherboard
c. I set up Audacity to record whatever is playing on the computer

If I leave the green speaker-out jack empty, Audacity won't record audio.
o Yet, if I plug in a male:male cable, Audacity records audio just fine.

Note that the _other_ end of that male:male cable goes nowhere!
o So Audacity needed _only_ "something" (anything) plugged into the jack.

Why?
o I'm sure there's a mechanical "switch" involved on the jack - but why?

Why does Audacity record audio _only_ when a cable is plugged in?
o Where that cable can be connected to headphones, speakers, or nothing!

This is the specific test I ran, but I don't think it matters:
1. I arbitrarily checked out the election news he
<https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/election-results-flux-progressive-groups-mobilize-n1246434>
2. And then played this Twitter feed (which is NOT a YouTube video):
<https://twitter.com/i/status/1323752027655229445>
3. My results we
a. With no cable connected to the green jack, Audacity recorded nothing.
b. With a jumper cable connected to the green jack
(but connected to nothing else on the other end)
Audacity recorded the streaming audio just fine.

Why does Audacity only record streaming audio when a 1/8th-inch stereo
cable is connected to the speaker out (even if the other end of that cable
is hanging in mid air)?
  #9  
Old November 5th 20, 09:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Paul[_21_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONEof the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 06:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> Note: I do NOT have a microphone, nor am I using the loopback cable;
>> but I do have a 1/8th-inch jack tying the motherboard (green) output
>> to a powered speaker on my desktop.

>
> Why does Audacity only record streaming audio when a 1/8th-inch stereo
> cable is connected to the speaker out (even if the other end of that cable
> is hanging in mid air)?
>
> I am NOT an audiophile... so this may be a dumb question...
> o Can someone _explain_ why I need a cable (& nothing else) to record?


You need to select Stereo Mix as your sound source.

+-----+
Mic ------------| |
| | A D
LineIn ---------| Mux |---- ADC -----> to CPU
| |
Stereo_Mix +----| |
| +-----+
|
| From CPU -- DAC --+--> LineOut
} |
+-----------------------+

Stereo_Mix is a loopback signal. It takes a "copy"
of what is coming from LineOut and routes it back to the
input multiplexer. It's a feature in every HDAudio chip
(like the motherboard 48 pin square chip in the corner).

Thus, to record streaming audio, that audio going out
the analog speaker connector, you need to select
Stereo_Mix as seen in Audacity. Any mixer setting
on Record block (Record in Windows icon in corner),
the Stereo_Mix has to be turned up enough to hear it.

Remember that picture I made yesterday ? It had
a picture of Stereo_Mix in it for a reason. That
wasn't a lark on my part. The Stereo_Mix is part
of your request for recording audio from a Youtube
session, without using youtube-dl and "cheating"
to get it. We have to assume someday the RIAA will
cut off as much recording capability as possible,
and for a while at least, analog will work.

I installed the RealTek driver over top of the
Microsoft driver, in order to bring back the
Stereo_Mix in my Win10 20H2 setup.

*******

When we use that foot-long, 1/8" male to 1/8" male
cable for recording, it looks like this.

+-----+
Mic ------------| |
| | A D
LineIn +----| Mux |---- ADC -----> to CPU
| | |
| /-| |
| +-----+
|
| From CPU -- DAC --+--> LineOut
} |
+-----------------------+
1/8" male to 1/8" male cable

You can use a cable to take the place of Stereo_Mix,
and then you'd select LineIn as your recording
source in Audacity. This would be the case, if
for example, Windows 10 buggered your Stereo_Mix
capability with its clumsiness and stupidity.

Not everyone has one of those cables. They
might come with some TV tuner card perhaps.

Paul
  #10  
Old November 5th 20, 04:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,rec.audio.tech
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Typical first pass tutorial process on Windows 10 where NONE of the extent how to articles actually tell you what you really need to do!

On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 03:12:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

> You need to select Stereo Mix as your sound source.
>
> +-----+
> Mic ------------| |
> | | A D
> LineIn ---------| Mux |---- ADC -----> to CPU
> | |
> Stereo_Mix +----| |
> | +-----+
> |
> | From CPU -- DAC --+--> LineOut
> } |
> +-----------------------+


Hi Paul,
Thanks for that diagram, where just studying it is instructive.
a. Mic in goes to the analog side of the ADC to the CPU
b. Line in goes to the analog side of the ADC to the CPU
c. Where LineOut & StereoMix are, somehow, intertwined

Somehow, when I set Audacity to record from "Stereo Mix",
(and if I'm playing a twitter streaming feed in my browser),
but if I do NOT plug a "disconnected" cable into LineOut,
then Audacity gets no signal to record.

However, when I set Audacity to record from "Stereo Mix",
(and if I'm playing a twitter streaming feed in my browser),
and if I also plug a "disconnected" cable into LineOut,
then Audacity DOES get a signal to record.

I guess what your diagram is showing is that StereoMix is disconnected from
LineOut unless a 1/8th-inch plug is used to "connect" them?

Is that right?

If so, then by putting the 1/8th-inch plug into the "LineOut" jack,
that connects the twitter feed coming from the DAC to the
"StereoMix" feed which then goes to the ADC to the CPU (???)
and then from there, to Audacity as its digital input (???)

> Stereo_Mix is a loopback signal. It takes a "copy"
> of what is coming from LineOut and routes it back to the
> input multiplexer. It's a feature in every HDAudio chip
> (like the motherboard 48 pin square chip in the corner).


I looked on my motherboard but don't see a 48-pin square chip in any of the
corners, but I think I'm getting your point that the "StereoMix" is a
loopback of LineOut to the ADC (and then to Audacity).

> Thus, to record streaming audio, that audio going out
> the analog speaker connector, you need to select
> Stereo_Mix as seen in Audacity.


I did select "Stereo Mix" since all the tutorials suggested that
o But I didn't know why

The choices I have in Audacity a
o For Host [MME] (Microsoft Multimedia Environment)
Recording choices are [Stereo Mix] or [Microsoft Sound Mapper]
o For Host [Windows DirectSound]
Recording choices are [Stereo Mix] or [Primary Sound Capture Driver]
o For Host [WASAPI] (Windows Audio Session API)
Recording choices are [Stereo Mix] or [Digital Output loopback] or [Speakers]

The good news is that they all have "Stereo Mix" as a choice.

> Any mixer setting
> on Record block (Record in Windows icon in corner),
> the Stereo_Mix has to be turned up enough to hear it.


I don't understand that statement.

> Remember that picture I made yesterday ? It had
> a picture of Stereo_Mix in it for a reason. That
> wasn't a lark on my part. The Stereo_Mix is part
> of your request for recording audio from a Youtube
> session, without using youtube-dl and "cheating"
> to get it. We have to assume someday the RIAA will
> cut off as much recording capability as possible,
> and for a while at least, analog will work.


I think I get it that "stereo mix" is a loopback of the analog signal
_back_ into the ADC, is that what you're trying to teach me?

With the 1/8th-inch plug in place, is this sequence correct yet?
a. The digital stream comes in from the browser twitter feed
b. That digital stream goes to the DAC preamp output
c. That DAC preamp output goes to LineOut (to go to powered speakers)
d. If (and only if) a 1/8th plug is plugged into LineOut
e. Then that DAC preamp output also loops back to the ADC input
f. Where the ADC converts the analog lineout to a digital stream
g. Which is then fed to the "StereoMix" input of Audacity

> I installed the RealTek driver over top of the
> Microsoft driver, in order to bring back the
> Stereo_Mix in my Win10 20H2 setup.


What does the "mix" mean in the term "Stereo Mix"?

I get what "stereo" means (i.e., 2 audio channels) but what's the "mix"?
a. Does the "mix" mean a mix of the two audio channels?
b. Or does the "mix" mean a mix of line out and line back in via loopback?

> When we use that foot-long, 1/8" male to 1/8" male
> cable for recording, it looks like this.
>
> +-----+
> Mic ------------| |
> | | A D
> LineIn +----| Mux |---- ADC -----> to CPU
> | | |
> | /-| |
> | +-----+
> |
> | From CPU -- DAC --+--> LineOut
> } |
> +-----------------------+
> 1/8" male to 1/8" male cable
>
> You can use a cable to take the place of Stereo_Mix,
> and then you'd select LineIn as your recording
> source in Audacity. This would be the case, if
> for example, Windows 10 buggered your Stereo_Mix
> capability with its clumsiness and stupidity.


Is that why they suggested that physical male-to-male loopback cable here?
<https://davescomputertips.com/how-to-record-internet-audio-with-audacity/>

> Not everyone has one of those cables. They
> might come with some TV tuner card perhaps.


I have an extensive cable box, like most people here.
o It even has RS232 cables in it, and SCSI cables too.

It had a 30-foot male-to-female 1/8th-inch cable & splitters
o In addition to a male-to-male 1/8th-inch cable

So I'm all set on cabling, if I need to use it
o But luckily, just plugging the plug alone into LineOut worked!
 




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