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Doum Doum is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Anyone using an Alesis DEQ830 digital EQ?

For the price it seems a good deal, 8x30 bands EQ.

Does it sound good? Ease of use?

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?

TIA
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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Another question, is it better to compress an EQ'd
signal or to EQ a compressed signal (drums)?


It is better /not/ to EQ or compress the signal at all. Is it necessary to
eff-up /every/ recorded sound?

To give a serious answer to a question that should never have been asked in
the first place... If you boost particular frequencies in the drums' range,
then those frequencies will be compressed more than those that weren't
boosted, largely wiping out the effect of boosting them. *

I would compress the sound first, then EQ it, as this will minimize any
interaction between the two processes.


* This is a somewhat stupid explanation, as most drums produce sounds over a
range of frequencies, rather than at specific pitch.


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Doum Doum is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

"William Sommerwerck" écrivait news:i6dk1b$omj
:

Another question, is it better to compress an EQ'd
signal or to EQ a compressed signal (drums)?


It is better /not/ to EQ or compress the signal at all. Is it necessary

to
eff-up /every/ recorded sound?


What about when the recording room is less than ideal?

To give a serious answer to a question that should never have been asked

in
the first place... If you boost particular frequencies in the drums'

range,
then those frequencies will be compressed more than those that weren't
boosted, largely wiping out the effect of boosting them. *

I would compress the sound first, then EQ it, as this will minimize any
interaction between the two processes.


* This is a somewhat stupid explanation, as most drums produce sounds

over a
range of frequencies, rather than at specific pitch.




Cutting or boosting some specific frequencies on some drums could give them
more punch or remove some muddiness, etc.

I'm in a learning process, that's why I ask those questions.


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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message
Another question, is it better to compress an EQ'd
signal or to EQ a compressed signal (drums)?


It is better /not/ to EQ or compress the signal at all.
Is it necessary to eff-up /every/ recorded sound?


Ignores the possibility that an equalizer actually be used for the purpose
suggested by its name. IOW, the equalizer is used to remove a response
variation that was unintentionally or unavoidably introduced by other means.
If you have a response variation caused by a minimum phase effect (very
common) using a minimum phase equalizer (very common), you also correct the
phase response.


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Mark Mark is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

if your EQ is mostly cutting some frequencies, you probably should EQ
first then compress...

if your EQ is mostly boosting some frequencies, you probably should
compress first, then EQ...

but the real answer is it depends on what effect you are trying to get
with EQ and compressing..

the compressor will respond mostly to the loudest frequienceis at it's
input, but will change the level of all the frequencies...


Mark




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Cyberserf[_2_] Cyberserf[_2_] is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

On Sep 10, 10:20*am, Doum wrote:
Anyone using an Alesis DEQ830 digital EQ?

For the price it seems a good deal, 8x30 bands EQ.

Does it sound good? Ease of use?

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?

TIA


Depends...What price are you getting on the Alesis? It is a digital
graphic eq...it isn't a Pultec EQP with tons of musicality...heck,
isn't parametric...do you like the intervals and the Q on each...do
you think theywill work for you. On your follow up post, get the room
as good as you can get it...trying to "eq" a bad room to sound "good"
is the equivalent of polishing a turd...yes you can do it...but why?

HTH. CS
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Doum wrote:

What about when the recording room is less than ideal?


Most rooms are less than ideal. Deal with it. Move the mic.
Move the player. Grabbing an equalizer is further down the
list.

Cutting or boosting some specific frequencies on some drums could give them
more punch or remove some muddiness, etc.


Sometimes that's true, but they have to sound pretty good to
start with. Otherwise they won't sound like drums. Sometimes
that's what you want. That's when you start turning the
knobs until you get the desired result, or determine that
you can't, with those knobs.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
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gtbuba gtbuba is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

On Sep 10, 7:38*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
Doum wrote:
What about when the recording room is less than ideal?


Most rooms are less than ideal. Deal with it. Move the mic.
Move the player. Grabbing an equalizer is further down the
list.

Cutting or boosting some specific frequencies on some drums could give them
more punch or remove some muddiness, etc.


Sometimes that's true, but they have to sound pretty good to
start with. Otherwise they won't sound like drums. Sometimes
that's what you want. That's when you start turning the
knobs until you get the desired result, or determine that
you can't, with those knobs.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson


I have an Alesis EQ like yours. I have not used it on a project yet.
In testing it I have found it to be pretty good. The roll offs could
be used in tracking. It is two sets of stereo channels. parametric 5
band if I remember right. I don't eq the master too much anymore, but
this thing could do it.
GT.
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Sean Conolly Sean Conolly is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

"Cyberserf" wrote in message
...
On Sep 10, 10:20 am, Doum wrote:
Anyone using an Alesis DEQ830 digital EQ?

For the price it seems a good deal, 8x30 bands EQ.

Does it sound good? Ease of use?

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?

TIA


Depends...What price are you getting on the Alesis? It is a digital
graphic eq...it isn't a Pultec EQP with tons of musicality...heck,
isn't parametric...do you like the intervals and the Q on each...do
you think theywill work for you. On your follow up post, get the room
as good as you can get it...trying to "eq" a bad room to sound "good"
is the equivalent of polishing a turd...yes you can do it...but why?


I'd be more inclined to say that it will make a bad sound into a different
sound. You basically can't fix the sound of a bad room after it's been
recorded, but if it already sounds like crap and you have time for turd
polishing, then go for it and hope you get lucky. You may find something
interesting, or you may just waste more time.

Sean


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Sean Conolly wrote:
Depends...What price are you getting on the Alesis? It is a digital
graphic eq...it isn't a Pultec EQP with tons of musicality...heck,
isn't parametric...do you like the intervals and the Q on each...do
you think theywill work for you. On your follow up post, get the room
as good as you can get it...trying to "eq" a bad room to sound "good"
is the equivalent of polishing a turd...yes you can do it...but why?


I'd be more inclined to say that it will make a bad sound into a different
sound. You basically can't fix the sound of a bad room after it's been
recorded, but if it already sounds like crap and you have time for turd
polishing, then go for it and hope you get lucky. You may find something
interesting, or you may just waste more time.


The consequence of doing a lot of concert recording work is that I wind
up doing a lot of salvage work. And I will say that the tool for salvage
work is at minimum a fully parametric equalizer.

A graphic equalizer is like a sledge hammer. You cannot use it to repair
a watch. Some digital "parametrics" like the one in the dbx DDP have
adjustable Q but can only put the filters on third-octave centers, which
is effectively useless for dealing with guitar pickup clatter or horrible
out of controlled room modes.

Salvage work is no fun... it is WAY more pleasant and less work to just
record the track properly in the first place. But sometimes you can't
do that.

I think the old Orban 622 is still the first thing I reach for, in spite of
having a lot more modern solutions around here. There are certainly
cleaner ones today.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

William Sommerwerck wrote:

It is better /not/ to EQ


You eq already in mic choice and you eq in mic placement as a consequence of
most sound sources having different spectra in different directions of
radiation. The classic "memphis eq" is to move closer if you want more bass
and move away if you want more treble .... but both moves may be
contra-indicated for logistic reasons.

or compress the signal at all.


I disagree when it gets to be about close miking, simply because the peak to
average ratio gets screwed up if the mic(s) is/are too close to the sound
source. Compression is however not the only tool to deploy to cure this,
simple bleed in the recording as well as adding reverb or room mic sound can
also be used.

As for whether close miking should be used is a different question, it is
however not always avoidable in real world recording situations.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Peter Larsen wrote:

You eq already in mic choice and you eq in mic placement as a consequence of
most sound sources having different spectra in different directions of
radiation.


Maybe I'm being picky about the terminology, but that isn't
really equalization since it's a physical thing, not an
electrical thing. You're controlling the sound that gets
recorded rather than modifying the electrical signal.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
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RD Jones RD Jones is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

On Sep 10, 10:20*am, Doum wrote:

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?


Neither.
You do both at the same time by inserting the EQ in the sidechain.

rd
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

RD Jones wrote:
On Sep 10, 10:20=A0am, Doum wrote:

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?


Neither.
You do both at the same time by inserting the EQ in the sidechain.


All three of these are valid and useful things to do, depending on why
you're equalizing or compressing.

General hint: if you boost a frequency _before_ the compressor, anything
at that frequency will pull the compressor down that much more. If you
cut it _before_ the compressor, it can prevent something from causing the
compressor to pump for the same reason. If you boost it or cut it
_after_ the compressor, it won't affect the compressor action.

If you boost or cut in the sidechain, it affects ONLY the compressor action,
which is a really powerful tool to have.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Sean Conolly Sean Conolly is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sean Conolly wrote:
Depends...What price are you getting on the Alesis? It is a digital
graphic eq...it isn't a Pultec EQP with tons of musicality...heck,
isn't parametric...do you like the intervals and the Q on each...do
you think theywill work for you. On your follow up post, get the room
as good as you can get it...trying to "eq" a bad room to sound "good"
is the equivalent of polishing a turd...yes you can do it...but why?


I'd be more inclined to say that it will make a bad sound into a different
sound. You basically can't fix the sound of a bad room after it's been
recorded, but if it already sounds like crap and you have time for turd
polishing, then go for it and hope you get lucky. You may find something
interesting, or you may just waste more time.


The consequence of doing a lot of concert recording work is that I wind
up doing a lot of salvage work. And I will say that the tool for salvage
work is at minimum a fully parametric equalizer.

A graphic equalizer is like a sledge hammer. You cannot use it to repair
a watch. Some digital "parametrics" like the one in the dbx DDP have
adjustable Q but can only put the filters on third-octave centers, which
is effectively useless for dealing with guitar pickup clatter or horrible
out of controlled room modes.

Salvage work is no fun... it is WAY more pleasant and less work to just
record the track properly in the first place. But sometimes you can't
do that.

I think the old Orban 622 is still the first thing I reach for, in spite
of
having a lot more modern solutions around here. There are certainly
cleaner ones today.
--scott


In 'salvage work' (which is a great expression, thank you) you just do what
you can with what you got. And yes, you can make a big improvement with the
right EQ. I've done a few jam sessions with a single omni in a crappy room,
and actually got something decent out of it with the right EQ.

This is where I love the Behringer EQ I have (DEQ 2496). The parametric
section is a five band EQ with a Q down to a 1/10th octave, and it does the
job well, at least IMHO.

Sean




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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830

Mike Rivers wrote:

Peter Larsen wrote:


You eq already in mic choice and you eq in mic placement as a
consequence of most sound sources having different spectra in
different directions of radiation.


Maybe I'm being picky about the terminology,


Yes two thirds of the way as I see this, 30 percent picky does nowever not
in my view constitute picking nits, and it is good that you bring this up,
thank you Mike.

but that isn't
really equalization since it's a physical thing, not an
electrical thing.


Mic choice - ie. preferred mic frequency response variation is - to
reasonable extent - a minimum phase coloration, ie. comparable to electrical
eq. A "sub case" is transducer delayed resonance, such may provide a useful
or a disastrous coloration that is not minimum phase since it occurs as
audible only after the cessation of sound.

Mic distance - ie. using or avoiding proximity effect - is in my
understanding likewise a minimum phase coloration, ie. comparable to
electrical eq. I'm open to being wrong about this, but if so someone please
explain why and how, thanks!

You're controlling the sound that gets
recorded rather than modifying the electrical signal.


If I select sound in a different direction to avoid or obtain a coloration:
yes, it is not a minimum phase coloration and thus not comparable to
electrical eq.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen








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George's Pro Sound Co. George's Pro Sound Co. is offline
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Default Alesis DEQ830


"Doum" wrote in message
.. .
Anyone using an Alesis DEQ830 digital EQ?

For the price it seems a good deal, 8x30 bands EQ.

Does it sound good? Ease of use?

Another question, is it better to compress an EQed signal or to EQ a
compressed signal (drums)?

TIA


I bought one, hated it
the non locking 1/4 inch connectors we always coming unplugged, the display
was impossible to read in the daylight, I was often on the wrong eq the
frame is weak, it sags under it's own weight when not supported
it did not sound objectionable for the few times I used it but it was not
the wonder machine I believed it would be allowing me to establish a 8 mix
monitor rig in a 3 space rack when coupled to two powersoft 4 channel single
space amps
George


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