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#1
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InDIYana Event
You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the
InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! -- Gary Eickmeier |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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InDIYana Event
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! -- Gary Eickmeier Mine will be this one: http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. Gary |
#3
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InDIYana Event
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
... "Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! -- Gary Eickmeier Mine will be this one: http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. I like that the badges on the speaker were added in the picture :-0 Sean |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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InDIYana Event
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message ... "Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... Mine will be this one: http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. I like that the badges on the speaker were added in the picture :-0 Sean He may not have time to get the logos in and on, so I wanted to show what the final design might look like. Gary |
#5
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InDIYana Event
On 26-05-2014 10:00, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Mine will be this one: http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the sound well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the ceiling, ie. flying or for fitting to a room corner? It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything between loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount cable is detrimental to the sound. The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of any kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to be cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting. Gary Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#6
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InDIYana Event
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... On 26-05-2014 10:00, Gary Eickmeier wrote: Mine will be this one: http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the sound well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the ceiling, ie. flying or for fitting to a room corner? Peter, where are you w respect to coming into my speaker development? First time? Middle? Read all of it so far? I'm not even sure I have explained it all in this forum, but please let me know. My speakers are floor standing at about ear height. They are a sub sat system intended to be used with 1 or 2 subwoofers placed in the corners. Should also use surround speakers in the normal manner. It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything between loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount cable is detrimental to the sound. The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of any kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to be cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting. OK, fine, we didn't want the complexity of multi-amping. I wanted to just make the speaker ratios fixed, but Dan insisted on making them variable with the L-pads, and developed the crossovers to make them sound good that way. This has proven very fruitful in learning more about the distance/intensity trading. Works similar to the DBX Soundfield One, as you go off center the loudness of the opposite speaker balances the proximity of the nearer speaker and the center remains stable. This is, of course, aided by a center speaker but I believe in getting the two stereo speakers right first. The front speakers are never placed in the corners. They are positioned 1/4 of the room width out from the front walls and in from the side walls, for a free space position with all reflections and actual speakers equidistant from each other. This "image model" then becomes a three dimensional canvas in both width and depth for the recorded sounds to array themselves. This has been experimentally proven by varying the D/R ratio with the L-pads. With too much direct sound, the imaging is too forward and in your face. With too much rear radiation, it is too recessed and lacking in fore/aft variation. Done just right for your room, a 3D image forms in which all instruments place themselves holographically in the frontal soundstage of your room. The soundstage is as wide as your room and sometimes wider and deeper. These effects are sometimes achieved accidentally by omni type speakers like the MBL and Beolab 5, or dipole models like the Quads and Maggies and Martin Logans. My speakers should be able to achieve it on purpose and show what causes it. I am incorporating the reflected sound into stereo theory using the image model of live sound as the standard for the reproduction, which I say should mimic that model within your room. This makes the function of the front speakers no longer just direct radiators but Image Model Projectors. Gary |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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InDIYana Event
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so, and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers sounded any good in a situation like that. Gary |
#8
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InDIYana Event
On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 04:23:16 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so, and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers sounded any good in a situation like that. Gary For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other contestant's. Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand that simple fact. |
#9
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InDIYana Event
"Luxey" wrote in message ... For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other contestant's. Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand that simple fact. Did you go to this event Lux? Gary |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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InDIYana Event
On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:47:13 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Luxey" wrote in message ... For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other contestant's. Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand that simple fact. Did you go to this event Lux? Gary I don't have to go anywhere to know one same speaker (cabinet) always sound exactly the same, differences in sound I hear being all due changes in surroundings of that speaker (cabinet), like different rooms, for example. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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InDIYana Event
On 02-06-2014 02:19, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the sound well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the ceiling, ie. flying or for fitting to a room corner? Peter, where are you w respect to coming into my speaker development? First time? Middle? Read all of it so far? I'm not even sure I have explained it all in this forum, but please let me know. I haven't read about it with any great care because words aren't always the optimum conveyor of information about a loudspeaker. It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central image. The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything between loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount cable is detrimental to the sound. Note that wording an extra time. The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of any kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to be cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting. OK, fine, we didn't want the complexity of multi-amping. I wanted to just make the speaker ratios fixed, but Dan insisted on making them variable with the L-pads Variable L-pads, full range or near full range? - it is not a design choice I would make. Fixed resistors perhaps if I really had to. Far too many problems in 10 years otherwise. and developed the crossovers to make them sound good that way. This has proven very fruitful in learning more about the distance/intensity trading. Works similar to the DBX Soundfield One, as you go off center the loudness of the opposite speaker balances the proximity of the nearer speaker and the center remains stable. JBL also made some corner horns with that in mind, K2 I think. And it is traditional good loudspeaker setup practice to let the axis cross in front of the listening position for the very same reason, Duelund illustrated that on my - then - DM2A's. It was quite silly of me not to keep them, but I learned a lot from what I got instead. This is, of course, aided by a center speaker but I believe in getting the two stereo speakers right first. A three speaker system has some merit for image stabilization in a large room. The front speakers are never placed in the corners. They are positioned 1/4 of the room width out from the front walls and in from the side walls End of story, no sale. for a free space position with all reflections and actual speakers equidistant from each other. This "image model" then becomes a three dimensional canvas in both width and depth for the recorded sounds to array themselves. Well, erm, the music you didn't like was mixed and mastered on KEF Coda's equalized with a Denon DE70 that I had no other use for and deployed as near fields. That seems to have worked well considering the positive comments on the production. And know what, at listening focus you're in the recorded room on that playback system. This has been experimentally proven by varying the D/R ratio with the L-pads. With too much direct sound, the imaging is too forward and in your face. With too much rear radiation, it is too recessed and lacking in fore/aft variation. Done just right for your room, a 3D image forms in which all instruments place themselves holographically in the frontal soundstage of your room. I heard something similar on Carlsons dustbins, omniradiators for placement up against a wall, and indeed on my first horns that my brother used until the cats killed the second pair of castle units, a pair of Acehorns with a top size perfect for a cat to keep watch over the room, this because of the perspex reflector he added to them. No doubt a pleasing effect can be obtained. However I prefer to listen to the recorded room rather than the playback room. The soundstage is as wide as your room and sometimes wider and deeper. Don't take offense, but I DO get the impression that you never actually heard stereophonic reproduction. These effects are sometimes achieved accidentally by omni type speakers like the MBL and Beolab 5, or dipole models like the Quads and Maggies and Martin Logans. I have heard Martin Logans as well as Quads, 57's and 63's. Of those I'd prefer a pair of 57's and a pair of Quad 2's, only the poweramp, the preamp that goes with is a silvery fog generator. If I can't get that I'll take a pair of 63's, those however in my opinion require antireflection treatment of the rear wall. I only heard one Martin Logan system, it was extremely precise to evaluate electronics on, but slightly foggy, in my opinion a fault of the room - or of the owners focus on cheap room and costly electronics. My speakers should be able to achieve it on purpose and show what causes it. OK, what would make sense to me would be a corner model, it would also have the great good property of costing half as much to build. I am incorporating the reflected sound into stereo theory using the image model of live sound as the standard for the reproduction, which I say should mimic that model within your room. This makes the function of the front speakers no longer just direct radiators but Image Model Projectors. From an information viewpoint the concept is broken. You add the same information obfuscated by room reflections and temporal smear and claim increased information content. Which is true, but the added information is about the playback room. Gary PS: I stopped making passive x-overs once I had compared an 075 with metal paper protection caps at around 1/3' the x-over frequency with an 075 with no protection caps in series. There is hardly anything more revealing than alnico horn drivers. Electrostatic loudspeakers powered directly from a poweramp might be ... Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#12
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InDIYana Event
On 04-06-2014 03:23, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ... You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker. https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/ I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go! Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so, and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers sounded any good in a situation like that. Well, it was an even playing field then, except that a box that relies on room reflections is at an obvious disadvanage, but bringing adequate amounts of wall should be doable. And clarity can still be evaluated. Gary Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#13
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InDIYana Event
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... Well, it was an even playing field then, except that a box that relies on room reflections is at an obvious disadvanage, but bringing adequate amounts of wall should be doable. And clarity can still be evaluated. Interesting because he could actually have played them as pure omnis, or even turned them around and turned the L-pads down and had some conventional direct firing speakers. But I can understand the disappointment. His other pair he calls the Proximity design, because it was meant to be used up against the walls. Mine are designed for small room acoustics, to use the walls as part of the speaker. Gary |
#14
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InDIYana Event
Ah, good to know. So, it is his speakers design that actually sucks big deal. Your is still to be tested. Ever thought about stand up carreer? You're too funny.
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#15
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InDIYana Event
"Luxey" wrote in message ... Ah, good to know. So, it is his speakers design that actually sucks big deal. Your is still to be tested. Ever thought about stand up carreer? You're too funny. Luxey you are wasting your time here - there are so many villages out there with positions open. Gary |
#16
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InDIYana Event
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
... there are so many villages out there with positions open. Did you find anyone to read the manual to you yet? |
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