[Gary Eickmeier]

You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the
InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model
Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.

https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/

I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!

--
Gary Eickmeier

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...
You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the
InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model
Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.

https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/

I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!

--
Gary Eickmeier

Mine will be this one:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

Gary

[Sean Conolly]

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...
You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at
the InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image
Model Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.

https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/

I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!

--
Gary Eickmeier

Mine will be this one:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

I like that the badges on the speaker were added in the picture :-0

Sean

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message
...
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...

Mine will be this one:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

I like that the badges on the speaker were added in the picture :-0

Sean

He may not have time to get the logos in and on, so I wanted to show what
the final design might look like.

Gary

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 26-05-2014 10:00, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Mine will be this one:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the
sound well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the
ceiling, ie. flying or for fitting to a room corner?

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything
between loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount
cable is detrimental to the sound.

The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of
any kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to
be cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting.

Gary

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
On 26-05-2014 10:00, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Mine will be this one:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the sound
well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the ceiling, ie.
flying or for fitting to a room corner?

Peter, where are you w respect to coming into my speaker development? First
time? Middle? Read all of it so far? I'm not even sure I have explained it
all in this forum, but please let me know. My speakers are floor standing at
about ear height. They are a sub sat system intended to be used with 1 or 2
subwoofers placed in the corners. Should also use surround speakers in the
normal manner.

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything between
loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount cable is
detrimental to the sound.

The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of any
kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to be
cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting.

OK, fine, we didn't want the complexity of multi-amping. I wanted to just
make the speaker ratios fixed, but Dan insisted on making them variable with
the L-pads, and developed the crossovers to make them sound good that way.
This has proven very fruitful in learning more about the distance/intensity
trading. Works similar to the DBX Soundfield One, as you go off center the
loudness of the opposite speaker balances the proximity of the nearer
speaker and the center remains stable. This is, of course, aided by a center
speaker but I believe in getting the two stereo speakers right first.

The front speakers are never placed in the corners. They are positioned 1/4
of the room width out from the front walls and in from the side walls, for a
free space position with all reflections and actual speakers equidistant
from each other. This "image model" then becomes a three dimensional canvas
in both width and depth for the recorded sounds to array themselves. This
has been experimentally proven by varying the D/R ratio with the L-pads.
With too much direct sound, the imaging is too forward and in your face.
With too much rear radiation, it is too recessed and lacking in fore/aft
variation. Done just right for your room, a 3D image forms in which all
instruments place themselves holographically in the frontal soundstage of
your room. The soundstage is as wide as your room and sometimes wider and
deeper.

These effects are sometimes achieved accidentally by omni type speakers like
the MBL and Beolab 5, or dipole models like the Quads and Maggies and Martin
Logans. My speakers should be able to achieve it on purpose and show what
causes it.

I am incorporating the reflected sound into stereo theory using the image
model of live sound as the standard for the reproduction, which I say
should mimic that model within your room. This makes the function of the
front speakers no longer just direct radiators but Image Model Projectors.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...
You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the
InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model
Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.

https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/

I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!

Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium
or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so,
and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no
exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers
sounded any good in a situation like that.

Gary

[Luxey]

On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 04:23:16 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message

...

You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the

InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model

Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.



https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/



I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!



Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium

or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so,

and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no

exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers

sounded any good in a situation like that.



Gary

For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other contestant's.

Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand that simple fact.

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Luxey" wrote in message
...

For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any
other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was
bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other
contestant's.

Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand
that simple fact.

Did you go to this event Lux?

Gary

[Luxey]

On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:47:13 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Luxey" wrote in message

...



For what it's worth, all the speakers sounded exactly the same as in any

other room, but likely, the sound of reproduced signal in the room was

bad, as heard from your speakers, and possibly the majority of other

contestant's.



Isn't it the time, already (in bold, cursive, underlined), to understand

that simple fact.



Did you go to this event Lux?



Gary

I don't have to go anywhere to know one same speaker (cabinet) always sound exactly the same, differences in sound I hear being all due changes in surroundings of that speaker (cabinet), like different rooms, for example.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 02-06-2014 02:19, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B6FFF7DE4...095708B0C2.jpg

Looks cute and makes sense when the import parameter is getting the sound
well distributed in the room. Is it for suspension from the ceiling, ie.
flying or for fitting to a room corner?

Peter, where are you w respect to coming into my speaker development? First
time? Middle? Read all of it so far? I'm not even sure I have explained it
all in this forum, but please let me know.

I haven't read about it with any great care because words aren't always
the optimum conveyor of information about a loudspeaker.

It has drivers on all four sides. The L-pads on top are for variable
radiation pattern, to be able to attenuate the front panels to adjust the
D/R ratio and the distance/ intensity trading to stabilize the central
image.

The first lesson from working with concert audio was that anything between
loudspeaker unit and amplifier other than the necessary amount cable is
detrimental to the sound.

Note that wording an extra time.

The concept makes sense for corner placement, but it makes no sense of any
kind to me that it is not fully active. Active cross-overs tend to be
cheaper anyway ... and easier to work with when experimenting.

OK, fine, we didn't want the complexity of multi-amping. I wanted to just
make the speaker ratios fixed, but Dan insisted on making them variable with
the L-pads

Variable L-pads, full range or near full range? - it is not a design
choice I would make. Fixed resistors perhaps if I really had to. Far too
many problems in 10 years otherwise.

and developed the crossovers to make them sound good that way.
This has proven very fruitful in learning more about the distance/intensity
trading. Works similar to the DBX Soundfield One, as you go off center the
loudness of the opposite speaker balances the proximity of the nearer
speaker and the center remains stable.

JBL also made some corner horns with that in mind, K2 I think. And it is
traditional good loudspeaker setup practice to let the axis cross in
front of the listening position for the very same reason, Duelund
illustrated that on my - then - DM2A's. It was quite silly of me not to
keep them, but I learned a lot from what I got instead.

This is, of course, aided by a center
speaker but I believe in getting the two stereo speakers right first.

A three speaker system has some merit for image stabilization in a large
room.

The front speakers are never placed in the corners. They are positioned 1/4
of the room width out from the front walls and in from the side walls

End of story, no sale.

for a
free space position with all reflections and actual speakers equidistant
from each other. This "image model" then becomes a three dimensional canvas
in both width and depth for the recorded sounds to array themselves.

Well, erm, the music you didn't like was mixed and mastered on KEF
Coda's equalized with a Denon DE70 that I had no other use for and
deployed as near fields. That seems to have worked well considering the
positive comments on the production. And know what, at listening focus
you're in the recorded room on that playback system.

This
has been experimentally proven by varying the D/R ratio with the L-pads.
With too much direct sound, the imaging is too forward and in your face.
With too much rear radiation, it is too recessed and lacking in fore/aft
variation. Done just right for your room, a 3D image forms in which all
instruments place themselves holographically in the frontal soundstage of
your room.

I heard something similar on Carlsons dustbins, omniradiators for
placement up against a wall, and indeed on my first horns that my
brother used until the cats killed the second pair of castle units, a
pair of Acehorns with a top size perfect for a cat to keep watch over
the room, this because of the perspex reflector he added to them. No
doubt a pleasing effect can be obtained. However I prefer to listen to
the recorded room rather than the playback room.

The soundstage is as wide as your room and sometimes wider and
deeper.

Don't take offense, but I DO get the impression that you never actually
heard stereophonic reproduction.

These effects are sometimes achieved accidentally by omni type speakers like
the MBL and Beolab 5, or dipole models like the Quads and Maggies and Martin
Logans.

I have heard Martin Logans as well as Quads, 57's and 63's. Of those I'd
prefer a pair of 57's and a pair of Quad 2's, only the poweramp, the
preamp that goes with is a silvery fog generator. If I can't get that
I'll take a pair of 63's, those however in my opinion require
antireflection treatment of the rear wall. I only heard one Martin Logan
system, it was extremely precise to evaluate electronics on, but
slightly foggy, in my opinion a fault of the room - or of the owners
focus on cheap room and costly electronics.

My speakers should be able to achieve it on purpose and show what
causes it.

OK, what would make sense to me would be a corner model, it would also
have the great good property of costing half as much to build.

I am incorporating the reflected sound into stereo theory using the image
model of live sound as the standard for the reproduction, which I say
should mimic that model within your room. This makes the function of the
front speakers no longer just direct radiators but Image Model Projectors.

From an information viewpoint the concept is broken. You add the same
information obfuscated by room reflections and temporal smear and claim
increased information content. Which is true, but the added information
is about the playback room.

Gary

PS: I stopped making passive x-overs once I had compared an 075 with
metal paper protection caps at around 1/3' the x-over frequency with an
075 with no protection caps in series. There is hardly anything more
revealing than alnico horn drivers. Electrostatic loudspeakers powered
directly from a poweramp might be ...

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 04-06-2014 03:23, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...

You may have a chance to see/hear my new speakers even before I do, at the
InDIYana event this weekend, May 30/31. Mine will be the IMP (Image Model
Projectors) presented by the engineer Dan Neubecker.

https://sites.google.com/site/indiyanaevent/

I have a major video job that weekend, so will not be able to go!

Well, the event was a total disaster because it took place in an auditorium
or conference center that was like 40 by 50 feet with 10 ft ceilings or so,
and you had to place your speakers way out into the middle of the room, no
exceptions. I wasn't there but my engineer/builder says none of the speakers
sounded any good in a situation like that.

Well, it was an even playing field then, except that a box that relies
on room reflections is at an obvious disadvanage, but bringing adequate
amounts of wall should be doable. And clarity can still be evaluated.

Gary

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...

Well, it was an even playing field then, except that a box that relies on
room reflections is at an obvious disadvanage, but bringing adequate
amounts of wall should be doable. And clarity can still be evaluated.

Interesting because he could actually have played them as pure omnis, or
even turned them around and turned the L-pads down and had some conventional
direct firing speakers. But I can understand the disappointment. His other
pair he calls the Proximity design, because it was meant to be used up
against the walls. Mine are designed for small room acoustics, to use the
walls as part of the speaker.

Gary

[Luxey]

Ah, good to know. So, it is his speakers design that actually sucks big deal. Your is still to be tested. Ever thought about stand up carreer? You're too funny.

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Luxey" wrote in message
...
Ah, good to know. So, it is his speakers design that actually sucks big
deal. Your is still to be tested. Ever thought about stand up carreer?
You're too funny.


Luxey you are wasting your time here - there are so many villages out there
with positions open.

Gary

[None]

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message
...
there are so many villages out there with positions open.

Did you find anyone to read the manual to you yet?