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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Saw this on Money:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. -- David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
"Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
David E. Bath wrote:
Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#4
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason I have a question about Foobar which I am hoping you will be able to answer. I currently use Musicmatch Jukebox, which does everything I need, except that when replaying a series of tracks from a cd which is intended to be played straight through, there is a short break between tracks. For example, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, when played on a CD player, it plays continuously, but playing the ripped tracks on Musicmatch, there is an irritating short break (around 200mS) between tracks. Does Foobar also introduce a short break, or will that keep tracks continuous. If Foobar won't, does anyone know what will? Thanks S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:40:03 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ): David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbu...m?postversion= 2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason The neatest solution I've seen (so far) along these lines is : http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php Use your MSB-modified 80 or 160 Gig iPod and Apple loss-less compression and you can hold your entire music library in your hand while wirelessly playing it on the worlds finest audio equipment (that is if you happen to own the worlds finest audio equipment :-)! |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
David E. Bath wrote:
Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. This is nice. A bit expensive, though. The market it's addressing is rapidly going to undercut it. The interface looks sweet, almost as if Apple made it It's not going to able to holds its own for long, unfortunately. When they make a digital output for the iPod touch, for example, game over. Connect the Ipod to a Benchmark DAc1 or Lavry DA10 and you have pretty much the same thing .. . . .OK except for capacity. I have an Apple Airport Express right now. Not alot of people know that it has a digital optical output. I'm saving up for a sweet DAC to mate it to so my iTunes collection can truly sing. CD |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone? |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to transfer digital audio. I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be cheaper and offer much more capacity. Technology will adapt. The new range of Ipods boast gapless playing. That's for both the flash and hard drive based players. That feature alone makes them a worthwhile upgrade. CD |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Serge Auckland wrote:
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason I have a question about Foobar which I am hoping you will be able to answer. I currently use Musicmatch Jukebox, which does everything I need, except that when replaying a series of tracks from a cd which is intended to be played straight through, there is a short break between tracks. For example, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, when played on a CD player, it plays continuously, but playing the ripped tracks on Musicmatch, there is an irritating short break (around 200mS) between tracks. Does Foobar also introduce a short break, or will that keep tracks continuous. Foobar does not introduce a break...but that be because I am playing FLAC files. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:40:03 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote (in article ): David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbu...m?postversion= 2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason The neatest solution I've seen (so far) along these lines is : http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php Use your MSB-modified 80 or 160 Gig iPod and Apple loss-less compression and you can hold your entire music library in your hand while wirelessly playing it on the worlds finest audio equipment (that is if you happen to own the worlds finest audio equipment :-)! 160 Gb wouldn't hold my entire library (800+ CDs), even with lossless compression. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:23:46 -0800, Chung wrote
(in article ): Sonnova wrote: There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone? Just because it hasn't happened yet is no indication that its not going to happen. It's inevitable and a logical extension of current trends. That the technology is maturing a bit more slowly than some might have predicted does not change that. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:24:32 -0800, Codifus wrote
(in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to transfer digital audio. That's a bit of a flaw in your logic. You are saying that mechanical storage media will always be with us in the FUTURE because it's cheaper TODAY. That's like a 19th century pundit saying that gas light would always be the artificial light of the masses because at that time, the gas service was already in place and was cheaper than electricity. I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be cheaper and offer much more capacity. How do you know that? Technology will adapt. The new range of Ipods boast gapless playing. That's for both the flash and hard drive based players. That feature alone makes them a worthwhile upgrade. Granted that at this moment the cost/megabyte favors HDD, but I don't see how you can possibly assume that this will always be the case. There are sound reasons for eliminating moving parts in storage media. First is cost. A socket is always going to be cheaper than a motorized mechanism. Second is reliability - especially in portable devices, but also in stationary devices. Drop your HDD-based iPod on the concrete and there's a good possibility that the HDD will be damaged. Everyone knows that even on desktop computer that are never moved, that hard-disk drives have a finite life, that's why we are encouraged to back them up. Also solid-state memories use less power, are smaller and lighter. Everything points to solid-state memory devices being preferred over HDD. Its simply a matter of time. CD |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
"David E. Bath" wrote in message
... Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. I don't see where hard drives are avoided. In most lexicons of computer terms, hard discs are a form of memory. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
wrote in message ...
"Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. MP3 file players that are based on flash have been around for most of the decade. The only thing that has changed is the amount of flash memory that was available. My M-Audio Microtrack is a credible mp3 and wav file player that uses CF cards up to 16 GB. Oh, it also happens to record from professional mics even those that need phantom power, up to 24/88 or 16/96! As a MP3 player for consumers the Microtrack would probably be a dud, because its directory services are very basic. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
"Sonnova" wrote in message
... On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. Agreed. IME flash is the timex watch of storage - it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Many flash-based audio devices will continue to run while undergoing extreme shock and vibration, until either the storage media or the batteries fall out! However, because of its cost, flash is usually used in sneakernet applications. By that I mean that day-to-day working projects ride on flash only long enough to access large archives on hard drives, where they are dumped or reloaded from. I personally own about 10 GB of flash in the form of USB, CF, and MiniSD formats. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. As long as mechanical media prices advance as rapidly as flash, and we keep inventing new ways to eat up gigabytes and terabytes of memory, it has a long life ahead of it in the marketplace. For example, my personal video editing platform PC has about a terabyte of space in the form of hard drives. At 3-12 gigabytes per project, it doesn't take long to eat up that space. A terabyte of flash might cost $750-1500 today. That's about 4-6 times the cost of corresponding hard drives. Flash has two very practical disadvantages as compared to hard drives. Typically data transfer of flash-based devices top out below that of hard drives. Flash memory has a finite life in terms of read/rewrite cycles. In most photographic, sneakernet and portable audio applications the rewrite life is so large as to not present any practical limits. As a hard drive replacement for a high-performance computer, flash's rewrite limit gets dicy. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 5 Nov 2007 01:10:24 GMT, Codifus wrote:
It's not going to able to holds its own for long, unfortunately. When they make a digital output for the iPod touch, for example, game over. Connect the Ipod to a Benchmark DAc1 or Lavry DA10 and you have pretty much the same thing .. . . .OK except for capacity. I have an Apple Airport Express right now. Not alot of people know that it has a digital optical output. I'm saving up for a sweet DAC to mate it to so my iTunes collection can truly sing. You may want to check out the E-MU 0404 USB 2.0. A fraction of the price of the Benchmark but I've been really knocked out by the clarity and detail of music played through it. I've not seen any A/B comparison against the Benchmark: it would be interesting to see how it fared. --- Rob Tweed Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd Registered in England: No 3220901 Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Rob Tweed wrote:
On 5 Nov 2007 01:10:24 GMT, Codifus wrote: It's not going to able to holds its own for long, unfortunately. When they make a digital output for the iPod touch, for example, game over. Connect the Ipod to a Benchmark DAc1 or Lavry DA10 and you have pretty much the same thing .. . . .OK except for capacity. I have an Apple Airport Express right now. Not alot of people know that it has a digital optical output. I'm saving up for a sweet DAC to mate it to so my iTunes collection can truly sing. You may want to check out the E-MU 0404 USB 2.0. A fraction of the price of the Benchmark but I've been really knocked out by the clarity and detail of music played through it. I've not seen any A/B comparison against the Benchmark: it would be interesting to see how it fared. --- Rob Tweed Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd Registered in England: No 3220901 Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com I've checked the EMU and I'm quite seduced by its reviews and reported capability. What turns me off, though, is that the EMU is controlled by the computer via USB. I want a standalone unit like the DAC1 or DA10. A standalone EMU-0404 I would buy in a heartbeat. CD |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:43:35 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:40:03 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote (in article ): David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbu...htm?postversio n= 2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason The neatest solution I've seen (so far) along these lines is : http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php Use your MSB-modified 80 or 160 Gig iPod and Apple loss-less compression and you can hold your entire music library in your hand while wirelessly playing it on the worlds finest audio equipment (that is if you happen to own the worlds finest audio equipment :-)! 160 Gb wouldn't hold my entire library (800+ CDs), even with lossless compression. Are you bragging or complaining? Most people have around 150 CDs. I was talking to the average user, which obviously doesn't include you - or me. I have more than 2000! |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:24:32 -0800, Codifus wrote (in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to transfer digital audio. That's a bit of a flaw in your logic. You are saying that mechanical storage media will always be with us in the FUTURE because it's cheaper TODAY. That's like a 19th century pundit saying that gas light would always be the artificial light of the masses because at that time, the gas service was already in place and was cheaper than electricity. A better analogy would be the invention of the combustion engine that came in the late 1900s and is still with us now. Some technologies just remain, adapting and evolving. I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be cheaper and offer much more capacity. How do you know that? Simple logic. 1.HD based players have a finite life and are more delicate. They have to be priced less than RAM players to even exist in the market. 2. Most users tend to baby their electronic devices. My nano has not been subject to any hard drops, so if I had the HD based ipod, chances are extremely likely that it would still work fine now, like my nano, but have way more carrying capacity. 3. I travel on the subway alot and find that ipod owners tend to really have this need to show off that they have an ipod. They're always holding them. For every flash based player I've seen there were at least 3 hd based players outnumbering them. Users want capacity for less. Technology will adapt. The new range of Ipods boast gapless playing. That's for both the flash and hard drive based players. That feature alone makes them a worthwhile upgrade. Granted that at this moment the cost/megabyte favors HDD, but I don't see how you can possibly assume that this will always be the case. There are sound reasons for eliminating moving parts in storage media. First is cost. A socket is always going to be cheaper than a motorized mechanism. Second is reliability - especially in portable devices, but also in stationary devices. Drop your HDD-based iPod on the concrete and there's a good possibility that the HDD will be damaged. Everyone knows that even on desktop computer that are never moved, that hard-disk drives have a finite life, that's why we are encouraged to back them up. Also solid-state memories use less power, are smaller and lighter. Everything points to solid-state memory devices being preferred over HDD. Its simply a matter of time. CD CD |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message ... "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. MP3 file players that are based on flash have been around for most of the decade. The only thing that has changed is the amount of flash memory that was available. My M-Audio Microtrack is a credible mp3 and wav file player that uses CF cards up to 16 GB. Oh, it also happens to record from professional mics even those that need phantom power, up to 24/88 or 16/96! As a MP3 player for consumers the Microtrack would probably be a dud, because its directory services are very basic. Must be a typo, but why in the world would someone choose 16/96 over 24/88? CD |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" writes: "David E. Bath" wrote in message ... Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. I don't see where hard drives are avoided. In most lexicons of computer terms, hard discs are a form of memory. Since I excluded hard discs from my statement, I think my meaning was quite clear. The units use some sort of solid-state memory as the article specifically says it is a discless system. -- David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator |
#25
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, (David E. Bath)
wrote: In article , writes: "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. True, but this starts at terabyte increments. Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory? I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored, ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure." Sure seems like it is on disk. Kal |
#26
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:23:46 -0800, Chung wrote (in article ): Sonnova wrote: There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone? Just because it hasn't happened yet is no indication that its not going to happen. It's inevitable and a logical extension of current trends. That the technology is maturing a bit more slowly than some might have predicted does not change that. They have been saying that for the last 20 years, too |
#27
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 6 Nov 2007 04:24:07 GMT, Codifus wrote:
I've checked the EMU and I'm quite seduced by its reviews and reported capability. What turns me off, though, is that the EMU is controlled by the computer via USB. I want a standalone unit like the DAC1 or DA10. A standalone EMU-0404 I would buy in a heartbeat. Actually the great thing about the EMU is that it *does* work standalone - you can disconnect the USB and use it in what they refer to as "Direct mode" as a standalone DAC for any digital source via its SPDIF inputs. And of course it has the great advantage of working as an extraordinarily high quality ADC for recording to digital too. The mic inputs in particular are staggeringly good. It's made me realise just how good my old trusty Calrec CM652 microphones really are. The EMU has all the input/output level controls you need on the box itself and I'm now using it primarily as a digital pre-amp, plugged directly into a Behringer power amp (another ridiculous bargain of very impressive quality). The combination is stunning. Of course a lot of the time I'll have the USB connection in place so I can play all my CD copies via iTunes (all either wav or Apple lossless), but I don't touch the software interface to it (though I carefully set up the iTunes and Mac sound configuration as per the Benchmark recommendations). You *can* configure and control the EMU from the computer via the USB, but trust me, it works standalone - I use it like that a lot. Sorry if I'm sounding like an EMU salesperson here - it really is just because I'm so knocked out at being able to buy so much quality for such a ludicrous bargain price. My only gripes are that I just wish the controls were on a front panel rather than on top, but then again it's meant for on-site recordings so its configuration makes sense. It would also be nice to have RCA connectors instead of 1/4 inch jacks for the audio output, but that's easily solved by buying some decent adaptors or, in my case, 1/4 inch jack to RCA cables. It also doesn't like you plugging in a live SPDIF input whilst playing back via USB - you appear to have to power-cycle it to change over inputs or you get a very nasty digital munged mess. Those are minor niggles. The fact is that for about 270 UK pounds I've been able to buy a ADC/DAC *and* power amp that has knocked the spots off anything I've had or used before - we're not talking subtle differences here. Truly amazing for less than the price of most mid-range mediocre gear. Just shows you that there really are some bargains out there if you look beyond the normal places. Funny, isn't it, that you won't see either the EMU or the Behringer being talked about in the hi-fi mags or on sale in the hi-fi shops. Now I wonder why that might be? Hmmmm? Anyway at the price they sell the EMU, just buy one and check it out. I don't reckon you'll be disappointed. --- Rob Tweed Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd Registered in England: No 3220901 Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com |
#28
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 6 Nov 2007 04:24:37 GMT, Sonnova
wrote: Are you bragging or complaining? Most people have around 150 CDs. I was talking to the average user, which obviously doesn't include you - or me. I have more than 2000! .....now 2000 really *is* bragging ;-) --- Rob Tweed Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd Registered in England: No 3220901 Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com |
#29
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... Serge Auckland wrote: "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... David E. Bath wrote: Saw this on Money: http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213 Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs. "I believe in what they are doing, says Jeff Joseph, president of Joseph Audio, a manufacturer of premium speakers in Melville, N.Y. "Sooloos has found a way for anybody to find their way through their music without giving up a bit of quality. Not even Apple does that' Er, I've been doing that for a couple of years now using a PC , a decent soundcard and foobar2000, for a lot less $$ than the Sooloos. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason I have a question about Foobar which I am hoping you will be able to answer. I currently use Musicmatch Jukebox, which does everything I need, except that when replaying a series of tracks from a cd which is intended to be played straight through, there is a short break between tracks. For example, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, when played on a CD player, it plays continuously, but playing the ripped tracks on Musicmatch, there is an irritating short break (around 200mS) between tracks. Does Foobar also introduce a short break, or will that keep tracks continuous. Foobar does not introduce a break...but that be because I am playing FLAC files. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason Thanks, but I don't understand the reference to FLAC files. Most of my music on my Musicmatch jukebox is in WAV format, some more recent additions are 320kbps MP3. On Musicmatch, all types of files have a short break between tracks, it's just a part of how it works. Musicmatch's Tech Support people were very helpful, but said it's a "feature" of the software, and there's no way round it other than to put the CD in twice, once as individual tracks when one wants to pick and choose, and again as one single track for playing all the way through. I really need to know if there's any other software out there that won't put in this short gap. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:25:33 -0800, Codifus wrote
(in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:24:32 -0800, Codifus wrote (in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to transfer digital audio. That's a bit of a flaw in your logic. You are saying that mechanical storage media will always be with us in the FUTURE because it's cheaper TODAY. That's like a 19th century pundit saying that gas light would always be the artificial light of the masses because at that time, the gas service was already in place and was cheaper than electricity. A better analogy would be the invention of the combustion engine that came in the late 1900s and is still with us now. Some technologies just remain, adapting and evolving. I disagree that's a better analogy. The ICE is still with us because TO THIS DAY no one has found a better portable automotive energy source than petroleum distillates. Nothing else has the power per weight or volume that gasoline and Diesel fuel has, and most bring other problems with them that make them, if not impractical, at least inconvenient. Solid-state memory has only one drawback currently, and that's cost per gigabyte and that's dropping all of the time. Yes, CDs and DVDs are still much cheaper than flash memory, but that won't always be true. I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be cheaper and offer much more capacity. How do you know that? Simple logic. 1.HD based players have a finite life and are more delicate. They have to be priced less than RAM players to even exist in the market. Those are the mediums two biggest drawbacks and someday, in the not too distant future, will be the reason why the technology will become obsolete. 2. Most users tend to baby their electronic devices. My nano has not been subject to any hard drops, so if I had the HD based ipod, chances are extremely likely that it would still work fine now, like my nano, but have way more carrying capacity. Your private experiences have little to do with the world at large. 3. I travel on the subway alot and find that ipod owners tend to really have this need to show off that they have an ipod. They're always holding them. For every flash based player I've seen there were at least 3 hd based players outnumbering them. Users want capacity for less. And eventually, flash memory will provide it. |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:53:41 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ): "Sonnova" wrote in message ... On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. Agreed. IME flash is the timex watch of storage - it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Many flash-based audio devices will continue to run while undergoing extreme shock and vibration, until either the storage media or the batteries fall out! However, because of its cost, flash is usually used in sneakernet applications. By that I mean that day-to-day working projects ride on flash only long enough to access large archives on hard drives, where they are dumped or reloaded from. I personally own about 10 GB of flash in the form of USB, CF, and MiniSD formats. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. As long as mechanical media prices advance as rapidly as flash, and we keep inventing new ways to eat up gigabytes and terabytes of memory, it has a long life ahead of it in the marketplace. For example, my personal video editing platform PC has about a terabyte of space in the form of hard drives. At 3-12 gigabytes per project, it doesn't take long to eat up that space. A terabyte of flash might cost $750-1500 today. That's about 4-6 times the cost of corresponding hard drives. No argument there, but the assumption that this will always be the case would be to argue against past technological trends. If computer history has taught us anything its that all technology gets cheaper with time. At some point, flash will have so much capacity at such a cheap price/gigabyte that it will displace electromechanical storage in every application where it's sufficient. That's all it needs to be. Cheap enough to replace HDD technology in first one application then another. Eventually, that will mean that for all practical purposes it will have displaced electro-mechanical storage in all portable devices, automobiles (one of the worst environments I can think of for an HDD, yet many new cars come with them onboard) and most home computers - probably starting with laptops. Flash has two very practical disadvantages as compared to hard drives. Typically data transfer of flash-based devices top out below that of hard drives. Flash memory has a finite life in terms of read/rewrite cycles. In most photographic, sneakernet and portable audio applications the rewrite life is so large as to not present any practical limits. As a hard drive replacement for a high-performance computer, flash's rewrite limit gets dicy. That's not necessarily so. Read/write speed is mostly a question of power budget . Most Flash memories used today are slow because they are designed for things like digital cameras, portable music players and the like and are designed to draw little current. Increase the power budget and speed goes up. And there are available technologies such as shadow RAM which can make the read/write access times of flash much faster than a HDD, in fact, DRAM fast, but in the places where it is generally used today, speed is not THE issue. |
#32
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:26:12 -0800, Codifus wrote
(in article ): Arny Krueger wrote: wrote in message ... "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. MP3 file players that are based on flash have been around for most of the decade. The only thing that has changed is the amount of flash memory that was available. My M-Audio Microtrack is a credible mp3 and wav file player that uses CF cards up to 16 GB. Oh, it also happens to record from professional mics even those that need phantom power, up to 24/88 or 16/96! As a MP3 player for consumers the Microtrack would probably be a dud, because its directory services are very basic. Must be a typo, but why in the world would someone choose 16/96 over 24/88? CD Depends upon what you're going to do with the file after its created, I guess. Everything has to be translated to a standard file type and some oversampling/high-bit files might convert to one filetype easier than another. I tend to record everything at 24/96. My outboard D/A can accept it and it does sound superior, and I can always down-convert to 16/44.1etc. |
#33
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
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#34
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 11/5/07 10:27 PM, in article , "Kalman
Rubinson" wrote: On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, (David E. Bath) wrote: In article , writes: "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. True, but this starts at terabyte increments. Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory? I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored, ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure." Sure seems like it is on disk. If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller hardware and software, not the music file storage. |
#35
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Nov 5, 11:27 pm, Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, (David E. Bath) wrote: In article , writes: "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. True, but this starts at terabyte increments. Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory? I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored, ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure." Sure seems like it is on disk. Kal It's a very closed, proprietary system. You buy a music CD from Sooloos. Sooloos sends you the CD as well as an encoded hardrive with the music on it. That hard drive is attached to your Sooloos system and the music is then almost instantaneously uploaded into the RAM of the system. The mirroring you mention must be part of the secondary, offline storage. Talk about being locked in. I'll continue building my own server, thank you CD |
#36
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
In article ,
John Stone writes: On 11/5/07 10:27 PM, in article , "Kalman Rubinson" wrote: On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, (David E. Bath) wrote: In article , writes: "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. True, but this starts at terabyte increments. Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory? I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored, ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure." Sure seems like it is on disk. If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller hardware and software, not the music file storage. Yes, I see that on their website, although their "All components are fanless and use virtually no moving parts, for near-silent operation" statement is a little misleading. I see on Stereophile's review that it's made clear the discless statement was supposed to be limited to the "Source" component, not the system as a whole. http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/107sooloos/ -- David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator |
#37
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 6 Nov 2007 23:47:21 GMT, Rob Tweed wrote:
On 6 Nov 2007 04:24:37 GMT, Sonnova wrote: Are you bragging or complaining? Most people have around 150 CDs. I was talking to the average user, which obviously doesn't include you - or me. I have more than 2000! ....now 2000 really *is* bragging ;-) Not around here. I deal in multiples of that. Kal |
#38
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On 7 Nov 2007 00:04:24 GMT, John Stone wrote:
If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller hardware and software, not the music file storage. Agreed. They also say no fan, so the noise must be from the disk spinning. :-) Kal |
#39
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:25:33 -0800, Codifus wrote (in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:24:32 -0800, Codifus wrote (in article ): Sonnova wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrote (in article ): "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs." There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near future. Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now. There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough and reliable enough to be archival. Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to transfer digital audio. That's a bit of a flaw in your logic. You are saying that mechanical storage media will always be with us in the FUTURE because it's cheaper TODAY. That's like a 19th century pundit saying that gas light would always be the artificial light of the masses because at that time, the gas service was already in place and was cheaper than electricity. A better analogy would be the invention of the combustion engine that came in the late 1900s and is still with us now. Some technologies just remain, adapting and evolving. I disagree that's a better analogy. The ICE is still with us because TO THIS DAY no one has found a better portable automotive energy source than petroleum distillates. Nothing else has the power per weight or volume that gasoline and Diesel fuel has, and most bring other problems with them that make them, if not impractical, at least inconvenient. Solid-state memory has only one drawback currently, and that's cost per gigabyte and that's dropping all of the time. Yes, CDs and DVDs are still much cheaper than flash memory, but that won't always be true. I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be cheaper and offer much more capacity. How do you know that? Simple logic. 1.HD based players have a finite life and are more delicate. They have to be priced less than RAM players to even exist in the market. Those are the mediums two biggest drawbacks and someday, in the not too distant future, will be the reason why the technology will become obsolete. Hard drives keep getting smaller and smaller yet their capacity keeps increasing. Not only that but their failure rates are going down too. It's going to take a long while for flash memory to catch up. 2. Most users tend to baby their electronic devices. My nano has not been subject to any hard drops, so if I had the HD based ipod, chances are extremely likely that it would still work fine now, like my nano, but have way more carrying capacity. Your private experiences have little to do with the world at large. And your preaching has everything to do with the larger world? Like I said, most users tend to baby their HD based players, so HDs are fine. 3. I travel on the subway alot and find that ipod owners tend to really have this need to show off that they have an ipod. They're always holding them. For every flash based player I've seen there were at least 3 hd based players outnumbering them. Users want capacity for less. And eventually, flash memory will provide it. When flash memory gets cheaper than HD memory in terms of cost per gigabyte, then I'll be with you on that. Untill then, HD memory is the cheaper and much more cost effective way to go. CD |
#40
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Interesting new High-end Digital System
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 15:47:21 -0800, Rob Tweed wrote
(in article ): On 6 Nov 2007 04:24:37 GMT, Sonnova wrote: Are you bragging or complaining? Most people have around 150 CDs. I was talking to the average user, which obviously doesn't include you - or me. I have more than 2000! ....now 2000 really *is* bragging ;-) If you think I'm bragging, try storing them - or MOVING them! I don't know how I even ended up with so many. I don't even particularly LIKE CDs! |
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