[William Sommerwerck]

"Chuck" wrote in message ...

Was the New Jersey amp an Adcom?

No, it was Sonic Developments, I believe.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:12:20 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:


"geoff" wrote in message
m...
I have pair about 1m from my head right now ; home-built, and damped with
1/8" lead sheet (!). They sound glorious at low-to-moderate volumes,
apart from the lack of bass. A sub compensates for that.

Yes but it's tiresome people claiming a speaker is suitable for everything
while ignoring that is only the case when used with a sub. A bit like saying
a sub is a great speaker, as long as it's used with good sattelites! In
that case Whise made one of the great speakers IMO, the 319A :-)

Trevor.





No, this just isn't right. The Quad goes a fair bit lower than the
speakers most people have in home systems. 40Hz will satisfy all but a
tiny amount of music. How many full range coned speakers do you know
that extend appreciably below 40Hz without a sub? I can only think of
Willson, and they effectively have a sub bolted on to the bottom of
the six foot high stack.

The comparison is perfectly valid.

d

[geoff]

On 10/06/2014 8:12 p.m., Trevor wrote:

"geoff" wrote in message
...
I have pair about 1m from my head right now ; home-built, and damped with
1/8" lead sheet (!). They sound glorious at low-to-moderate volumes,
apart from the lack of bass. A sub compensates for that.

Yes but it's tiresome people claiming a speaker is suitable for everything
while ignoring that is only the case when used with a sub. A bit like saying
a sub is a great speaker, as long as it's used with good sattelites! In
that case Whise made one of the great speakers IMO, the 319A :-)

Trevor.

I don't think anybody claim the speaker in question was "good for
everything"

geoff

[Hikaru Ichijyo]

wrote:

Here's a simple experiment that shows how the brain adapts to EQ.
Prepare 2 pink noise tracks, one unprocessed and one with a 10 db
boost at 2khz. Listen to the unprocessed version for 5 seconds, switch
to the processed version for another 5 seconds, and then switch back
to the original. You won't believe that the last track is the same as
the first, it sounds like a giant hole was carved out at 2khz.

This is exactly what I was talking about in the original thread topic
(which is now part of medieval history, since we're now talking about
some speaker that is or isn't great for all types of music).

I just never noticed before how different my hearing was on a given day
from any other given day. This does make all of the observations I
thought I was making about speakers and headphones (headphones
especially, since they seem way more fickle this way) seem really silly.
It might make a lot of people's observations of that sort really silly.

I've always thought that the fundamental problem with reproducing
sound over speakers is the fact that a single spatial radiation
pattern is applied to all instruments equally.

I think this is a big part of the reason people like live bands with PA,
even though it's usually mono, compressed, timbrally colored, and done
with whatever gear they didn't mind putting in a truck -- despite all
that, you're hearing it from lots of speakers coming from lots of
different directions. They say our ears really care more about the time
domain than EQ, and if that's true, then all of that spatial separation
has got to be counting for something, even if it's not real stereo.

--
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent
that will reach to himself.
--Thomas Paine

[William Sommerwerck]

"Hikaru Ichijyo" wrote in message
eb.com...
wrote:

Here's a simple experiment that shows how the brain adapts to EQ.
Prepare 2 pink noise tracks, one unprocessed and one with a 10 dB
boost at 2khz. Listen to the unprocessed version for 5 seconds, switch
to the processed version for another 5 seconds, and then switch back
to the original. You won't believe that the last track is the same as
the first, it sounds like a giant hole was carved out at 2khz.

I just never noticed before how different my hearing was on a given
day from any other given day. This does make all of the observations
I thought I was making about speakers and headphones (headphones
especially, since they seem way more fickle this way) seem really silly.
It might make a lot of people's observations of that sort really silly.

This effect is particularly noticeable (as you say) with headphones. Why, I
have no idea.


I've always thought that the fundamental problem with reproducing
sound over speakers is the fact that a single spatial radiation
pattern is applied to all instruments equally.

With Ambisonic recording and reproduction, this problem is minimized, because
all sounds are heard coming from their correct, original directions.
Unfortunately, we're stuck with recording techniques that aren't as good at
imaging.

[William Sommerwerck]

PS: I will deprecate, a priori, whatever Gary says about this, so we don't get
into an argument.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 10-06-2014 22:05, geoff wrote:

On 10/06/2014 8:12 p.m., Trevor wrote:

"geoff" wrote in message

...
I have pair about 1m from my head right now ; home-built, and damped
with
1/8" lead sheet (!). They sound glorious at low-to-moderate volumes,
apart from the lack of bass. A sub compensates for that.

Yes but it's tiresome people claiming a speaker is suitable for
everything
while ignoring that is only the case when used with a sub. A bit like
saying
a sub is a great speaker, as long as it's used with good sattelites! In
that case Whise made one of the great speakers IMO, the 319A :-)

Trevor.

I don't think anybody claim the speaker in question was "good for
everything"

In as much as my KEF Coda's are a variation on the same theme I'll make
that claim. I have never used them with a sub, eq always did it. But of
course the SPL requirement must stay within the xmax. The have done a
good job of delivering a second opinion and working when stuff was being
rebuilt/modded since 1977 or so.

About now they are kinda needing new front suspension on the bass units,
the rubber is getting dryish and beginning to crack up, but it is from
age and not from use. I am deeply impressed with the quality of the units.

geoff

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gary Eickmeier]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
PS: I will deprecate, a priori, whatever Gary says about this, so we
don't get into an argument.

Just that your idea is good, but the experiments have been done and you
would need many more speakers than Ambisonics usually uses. See the
illustration on the cover of Blauert.

Gary

[Luxey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxEJOi6GtA

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Trevor wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
I have pair about 1m from my head right now ; home-built, and damped
with 1/8" lead sheet (!). They sound glorious at low-to-moderate
volumes, apart from the lack of bass. A sub compensates for that.

Yes but it's tiresome people claiming a speaker is suitable for
everything while ignoring that is only the case when used with a sub. A
bit like saying a sub is a great speaker, as long as it's used with
good sattelites! In that case Whise made one of the great speakers
IMO, the 319A :-)

Not many people have 'a' speaker. They generally have two. But there is no
directional information at very low frequencies, so it can make a deal of
sense to use a single speaker for this, allowing smaller main speakers.

Sure, but that wasn't my point. IF you add a subwoofer then it's the
*system* you are comparing, NOT just the main speakers. Thats my point.

If, of course, you do listen to the sort of music which makes use of that
last octave or so. A great deal - perhaps most - doesn't.

Perhaps "most" don't, but would if not for size, cost and many other
factors.

Large speakers which can reproduce the entire audio band at high levels
introduce their own problems - due to their size.

Of course, which is why no speaker is ideal for all people, all homes, and
all music.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Trevor wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
You know of any speaker which doesn't have limitations? Perhaps you'd
be good enough to inform me of the make and model.

Nope, which is why I disagreed with the assertion that good speakers are
great for All Types of Music in the first place!

So I assume you change your speakers according to the type of music you
listen to?

Yep, and the type of environment they are used in.

And I'd far rather listen to rock music on a speaker which makes a good
fist of a string quartet than the other way round.

I'd far rather use the right tool for the job, but you are welcome to
whatever compromises you choose.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2014 8:12 p.m., Trevor wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
I have pair about 1m from my head right now ; home-built, and damped
with
1/8" lead sheet (!). They sound glorious at low-to-moderate volumes,
apart from the lack of bass. A sub compensates for that.

Yes but it's tiresome people claiming a speaker is suitable for
everything
while ignoring that is only the case when used with a sub. A bit like
saying
a sub is a great speaker, as long as it's used with good sattelites! In
that case Whise made one of the great speakers IMO, the 319A :-)


I don't think anybody claim the speaker in question was "good for
everything"

That was in fact the claim I originally responded to, that good speakers
were good for all types of music. And the original claim was referring to
the ESL59's and not for speaker systems only when including subs. Or only
for people who never play the type of music they are NOT suited for!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
In as much as my KEF Coda's are a variation on the same theme I'll make
that claim. I have never used them with a sub, eq always did it. But of
course the SPL requirement must stay within the xmax. The have done a good
job of delivering a second opinion and working when stuff was being
rebuilt/modded since 1977 or so.

About now they are kinda needing new front suspension on the bass units,
the rubber is getting dryish and beginning to crack up, but it is from age
and not from use. I am deeply impressed with the quality of the units.

Sure, I still have a pair of KEF Concerto's too which are still in fine
condition (I did give them a tweeter/xover upgrade quite a while back)
They still get used from time to time, and am also deeply impressed. They
are probably the closest I have to an all round speaker in my collection.
The rest tend to be better for the specific needs they were
designed/purchased for. I was also a big fan of the Duntech Sovereigns for
years, (no longer have them) but hardly a speaker for everyone.though :-)

Trevor.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Trevor wrote:
So I assume you change your speakers according to the type of music you
listen to?

Yep, and the type of environment they are used in.

Right. Just the thing for those requiring a decent domestic speaker.

And I'd far rather listen to rock music on a speaker which makes a good
fist of a string quartet than the other way round.

I'd far rather use the right tool for the job, but you are welcome to
whatever compromises you choose.

Is there any room for seating in your listening room with all these
speakers?

--
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Trevor wrote:
I don't think anybody claim the speaker in question was "good for
everything"

That was in fact the claim I originally responded to, that good speakers
were good for all types of music. And the original claim was referring
to the ESL59's and not for speaker systems only when including subs. Or
only for people who never play the type of music they are NOT suited
for!

And your response is you need different speakers for different types of
music and also presumably speech. And then there's different ones for
different environments too.

BTW, I've never heard an 'ESL 59' If you have perhaps that explains things.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Williamson]

On 12/06/2014 10:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor wrote:
So I assume you change your speakers according to the type of music you
listen to?

Yep, and the type of environment they are used in.

Right. Just the thing for those requiring a decent domestic speaker.

And I'd far rather listen to rock music on a speaker which makes a good
fist of a string quartet than the other way round.

I'd far rather use the right tool for the job, but you are welcome to
whatever compromises you choose.

Is there any room for seating in your listening room with all these
speakers?

And how much do they interact? Do ported speakers act as bass traps when
other speakers are in active use and they are isolated from their amplifier?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Trevor wrote:
So I assume you change your speakers according to the type of music you
listen to?

Yep, and the type of environment they are used in.

Right. Just the thing for those requiring a decent domestic speaker.

And I'd far rather listen to rock music on a speaker which makes a good
fist of a string quartet than the other way round.

I'd far rather use the right tool for the job, but you are welcome to
whatever compromises you choose.

Is there any room for seating in your listening room with all these
speakers?

Yep, I don't live in a bed sit. Perhaps you do. I did not say they were all
in the same room however, but a few certainly are.

Trevor.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Trevor wrote:
Is there any room for seating in your listening room with all these
speakers?

Yep, I don't live in a bed sit. Perhaps you do.

No. I have what is for the UK a fairly large Victorian house.

I did not say they were all in the same room however, but a few
certainly are.

Fine if you like living in an aisle of Walmart, then. Others may have
different taste. Hopefully.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Trevor" wrote in message ...

Sure, I still have a pair of KEF Concertos, too, which are still in fine
condition (I did give them a tweeter/xover upgrade quite a while back)
They still get used from time to time, and am also deeply impressed.

This is a speaker (introduced in 1969 and discontinued in 1977) that was badly
dated 30 years ago.

The Concerto was the sort of design that gave KEF a reputation for making
speakers that weren't as good as those from other companies using the same
drivers. (The Transduction T5 I mentioned in an earlier post was such a
speaker.)