[Gill Smith]

much talk in audio recording circles about compression

and best ways of achieving it

seems the basic problem is trying to fix a problem *after* the event

i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[Scott Dorsey]

Gill Smith wrote:
much talk in audio recording circles about compression

and best ways of achieving it

seems the basic problem is trying to fix a problem *after* the event

i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there is
something to be done about that, which could be manual gainriding
or compression.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gill Smith]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gill Smith wrote:
much talk in audio recording circles about compression

and best ways of achieving it

seems the basic problem is trying to fix a problem *after* the event

i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there is
something to be done about that, which could be manual gainriding
or compression.

but is this a 'last century' problem?

apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air and
recorded as sound waves

and how many are software

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[Scott Dorsey]

Gill Smith wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there is
something to be done about that, which could be manual gainriding
or compression.

but is this a 'last century' problem?

apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air and
recorded as sound waves

and how many are software

Pretty much everything I see in the studio is an actual genuine instrument.
And of course you can't DI a vocal as much as John Lennon would have loved
to.

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only thing left
are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world... a horrible place to
live, with no live acoustic music at all. Nobody picking up a guitar in
the airport lobby and singing to their friends. No string quartets or
orchestras playing real music in real rooms with real audiences. What
would be the point of even living?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gill Smith wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there is
something to be done about that, which could be manual gainriding
or compression.

but is this a 'last century' problem?

apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air and
recorded as sound waves

and how many are software

Pretty much everything I see in the studio is an actual genuine
instrument.
And of course you can't DI a vocal as much as John Lennon would have loved
to.

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only thing left
are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world... a horrible place to
live, with no live acoustic music at all. Nobody picking up a guitar in
the airport lobby and singing to their friends. No string quartets or
orchestras playing real music in real rooms with real audiences. What
would be the point of even living?

Amen. With my arsenal of synths, samples, and soft synths that could bury
the Russian army, I still find solace sitting at my acoustic piano for hours
on end.
One thing that may or may not be funny....a few months back I finished an
intense piano practice session and briefly found myself looking for the
'off' switch.
Now that's sad

Poly

[[email protected]]

On 2010-11-14 (ScottDorsey) said:
snip
That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there
is something to be done about that, which could be manual
gainriding or compression.
but is this a 'last century' problem?
apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air
and recorded as sound waves
and how many are software
Pretty much everything I see in the studio is an actual genuine
instrument. And of course you can't DI a vocal as much as John
Lennon would have loved to.


I don't see many "software" instruments either. NO matter
how much some would wish for everything to be emulated on a
computer and produced in a bedroom there are still plenty of
folks playing real instruments out there, often to flesh and
blood audiences who came to hear them perform. In fact, one
of the reasons I do on site stuff and operate a remote truck
is because I don't care for the everything in a box
approach, or often the sound.

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world... a
horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all. Nobody
picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to their
friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real music in
real rooms with real audiences. What would be the point of even
living?

Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[Gill Smith]

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 (ScottDorsey) said:
snip
That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there
is something to be done about that, which could be manual
gainriding or compression.
but is this a 'last century' problem?
apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air
and recorded as sound waves
and how many are software
Pretty much everything I see in the studio is an actual genuine
instrument. And of course you can't DI a vocal as much as John
Lennon would have loved to.


I don't see many "software" instruments either. NO matter
how much some would wish for everything to be emulated on a
computer and produced in a bedroom there are still plenty of
folks playing real instruments out there, often to flesh and
blood audiences who came to hear them perform. In fact, one
of the reasons I do on site stuff and operate a remote truck
is because I don't care for the everything in a box
approach, or often the sound.

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world... a
horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all. Nobody
picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to their
friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real music in
real rooms with real audiences. What would be the point of even
living?

Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.

I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more instruments

like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[[email protected]]

In rec.audio.pro Gill Smith wrote:
: i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

I'm more bothered by too little range in mastered levels.

[[email protected]]

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Bill Graham]

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.




One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The pitiful
attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that emerge from the
trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are laughable.

[Gill Smith]

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.

our local jazz celeb plays an old Korg

wish I could remember which one

sounds pretty good

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[Gill Smith]

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.




One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The
pitiful attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that
emerge from the trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are
laughable.

maybe I'm kidding myself but the more 'voices' I use, the better it sounds

especially if they use harmonies rather than all playing in unison

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[Danny T]

On Nov 14, 12:24*pm, wrote:
In rec.audio.pro Gill Smith wrote:
: i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

I'm more bothered by too little range in mastered levels.

Really? I loved the over squashed, no dynamic FM mix sound. It makes
me feel warm and fuzzy
Uhmmmmm
Not really
http://www.turnmeup.org/

[Bill Graham]

"Gill Smith" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.




One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The
pitiful attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that
emerge from the trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are
laughable.

maybe I'm kidding myself but the more 'voices' I use, the better it sounds

especially if they use harmonies rather than all playing in unison


I agree....A good chorus is a wonderful thing. I recently bought a TC
Helicon Harmony-G. It gives me a fabulous sound. It's capable of giving me
an octave up and one octave down at the same time. A fun toy. These devices
are made for singers, but they work pretty well for trumpets and saxes. they
do a pretty good job of preserving the general character of the input voice,
whether singer or trumpet.

[RD Jones]

On Nov 14, 12:24*pm, wrote:
In rec.audio.pro Gill Smith wrote:
: i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

I'm more bothered by too little range in mastered levels.

http://www.turnmeup.org/

Go there, now, and join.

rd

[PStamler]

As somebody who's just now learning to use a synthesizer after four
decades of wishing, I'll say that:

1. It's a musical instrument. You can play it very badly, like I do so
far, or very well, like some people I know. The same applies to a
banjo.

2. The synths I've messed with sound best when you put the sound
through a loudspeaker and mike the room...just like any other musical
instrument.

3. Most records I come across have non-synth musical instruments on
them. Guitars ain't going away.

4. When I finally learn to play a synthesizer well enough to let
somebody else hear me do it, no way am I giving up my guitar.

5. Synths aren't just emulators to give an approximation of acoustical
instruments. They also make sounds uniquely their own. For me, that's
where the fun stuff is.

A synthesizer is just another gadget for playing music. No more, no
less.

As for compression...yes, it is trying to fix something after the
event happens. In the acoustical-horn recording era, recording
musicians deliberately limited their dynamic range to match the very
limited range (about 30-40dB on a good day) of recordings. They mostly
don't do that anymore, and we have more range available. But there's
still a need for compression someplace; listen to a well-recorded,
uncompressed, distant miked Mahler symphony sometime in your car. Turn
it down enough that the loud parts don't blast you against the
headrest, and the soft parts will be totally inaudible. To fix that
you need compression. (I'd rather see it in the car stereo than the
records, and some car stereos have it, usually badly implemented.) To
some extent the same applies to domestic listening, particularly in
apartments, where your available dynamic range is limited by your
neighbors' tolerance.

Peace,
Paul

[david correia]

In article ,
"Bill Graham" wrote:


wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.




One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The pitiful
attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that emerge from the
trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are laughable.



Keep laughing while technology gets closer and closer every year.

Remember, they used to say man will never fly ;




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Bill Graham]

"david correia" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Graham" wrote:


wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.




One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The
pitiful
attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that emerge from
the
trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are laughable.



Keep laughing while technology gets closer and closer every year.

Remember, they used to say man will never fly ;

I'm not worried.....I have heard the damndest things come out of a
trumpet....Growls, squeaks, pops and stuff you can't even imagine......I
doubt if they will ever get a machine to do all that stuff....Especially
when it part of the artists interpretation of the music. The machine is just
too close to the performer, and too far away from being a machine....Violins
are the same way. They, too, are too close to the performer. Consider this.
A concert pianist can go out on stage and, using one finger, make a note on
his piano. A two year old can also go out to the same piano and make the
same note, and no one can tell the difference, because the mechanics of the
piano are doing all the work, and all the expertise consists of putting many
notes together. But the concert trumpeter and violinist, can make one note
sound beautiful, much different from the two year old. These kinds of
instruments are very hard to reproduce mechanically, because their sound
comes from the soul of the performer. That's why I'm not worried....

[sTeeVee]

On Nov 15, 3:34*am, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"david correia" wrote in message

...



In article ,
"Bill Graham" wrote:

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
* Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
* wrote:
big snip

* * A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
* * thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
* a * *horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
* Nobody * *picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
* their * *friends. *No string quartets or orchestras playing real
* music in * *real rooms with real audiences. *What would be the
* point of even * *living?
* Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
* I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
* instruments
* like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. *Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.

One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The
pitiful
attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that emerge from
the
trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are laughable.

Keep laughing while technology gets closer and closer every year.

Remember, they used to say man will never fly ;

I'm not worried.....I have heard the damndest things come out of a
trumpet....Growls, squeaks, *pops and stuff you can't even imagine.......I
doubt if they will ever get a machine to do all that stuff....Especially
when it part of the artists interpretation of the music. The machine is just
too close to the performer, and too far away from being a machine....Violins
are the same way. They, too, are too close to the performer. Consider this.
A concert pianist can go out on stage and, using one finger, make a note on
his piano. A two year old can also go out to the same piano and make the
same note, and no one can tell the difference, because the mechanics of the
piano are doing all the work, and all the expertise consists of putting many
notes together. But the concert trumpeter and violinist, can make one note
sound beautiful, much different from the two year old. These kinds of
instruments are very hard to reproduce mechanically, because their sound
comes from the soul of the performer. That's why I'm not worried....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Y'know, I've been looking for a stinkin' midi keyboard that
*approaches* the feel of a real piano - even an old Baldwin spinette
clunker - for about 25 years. Not to be found. That doesn't even begin
to address the canned sound that comes out of an electronic instrument
versus the infinite complexity that comes off the sound board,
transmitting through the case, and into the room. Further, I'll take
great exception to the idea that you can't hear the difference between
a concert pianist and a 2 year old striking the same key. You can
*immediately* tell the difference from pianist to pianist. How a key
is struck is an extremely complex mechanical system (I'm speaking of
the human body here - not the piano action) controlled by an
unimaginably complex control system (the human brain.) If you are a
cursory listener, you might not be able to discern the difference. If
you have intimate knowledge of, and experience with the instrument,
you couldn't *not* tell the difference...immediately.

[Arny Krueger]

"Gill Smith" wrote in
message

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gill Smith wrote:
much talk in audio recording circles about compression

and best ways of achieving it

seems the basic problem is trying to fix a problem
*after* the event i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument.

Explain that to me technically.

An acoustic instrument has only so much dynamic range, and its the same
whether I close mic or distant mic. Acoustical systems strongly tend to be
highly linear. Air is nonlinear, but just a little. What does change is
that distant micing picks up more of the room and the other instruments. So,
the instrument's dynamic range remains the same but perhaps the noise floor
rises.

So invariably there is something to be done about that,
which could be manual gainriding or compression.

but is this a 'last century' problem?

No. We're going to have mics and pickup of sound from air as long as we
have vocalists.

apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are
played to air and recorded as sound waves

As a rule all brass, woodwind, and string instruments are used that way.

and how many are software

Synthesized keyboards and drums.

And then there is the third category, instruments like electric guitars that
use traditional tone generators but electronic pickups and shaping.

[Scott Dorsey]

sTeeVee wrote:

Y'know, I've been looking for a stinkin' midi keyboard that
*approaches* the feel of a real piano - even an old Baldwin spinette
clunker - for about 25 years. Not to be found.

Sure it is. Get a Yamaha piano with a MIDI kit added. It's still a full
sized piano and it still feels like one, and you get MIDI out that you can
record and use to drive other things.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gill Smith]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

An acoustic instrument has only so much dynamic range, and its the same
whether I close mic or distant mic. Acoustical systems strongly tend to be
highly linear. Air is nonlinear, but just a little. What does change is
that distant micing picks up more of the room and the other instruments.
So, the instrument's dynamic range remains the same but perhaps the noise
floor rises.

makes you wonder what the ear does in real-time that mics don't......

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[hank alrich]

Gill Smith wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gill Smith wrote:
much talk in audio recording circles about compression

and best ways of achieving it

seems the basic problem is trying to fix a problem *after* the event

i.e. too much range in recorded audio levels

That's just what happens when you spotmike things. Close miking
exaggerates the dynamics of the instrument. So invariably there is
something to be done about that, which could be manual gainriding
or compression.

but is this a 'last century' problem?

apart from vocals, how many 'instruments' today are played to air and
recorded as sound waves

Lots and lots and lots of tracks are taken via air. Note how many cheap
mics are sold for home recording.

and how many are software

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
sTeeVee wrote:

Y'know, I've been looking for a stinkin' midi keyboard that
*approaches* the feel of a real piano - even an old Baldwin spinette
clunker - for about 25 years. Not to be found.

Sure it is. Get a Yamaha piano with a MIDI kit added. It's still a full
sized piano and it still feels like one, and you get MIDI out that you can
record and use to drive other things.

Yep. They're named "Disklavier". I've installed them for years.
Although I always preferred a factory installed unit. It's like adding an
air conditioner to a car that doesn't have one. (showin' my age...do they
even make cars without a/c?)
Now finding a disklavier that's around the same price range as a midi
keyboard could be a problem

Poly

[John Williamson]

Gill Smith wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

An acoustic instrument has only so much dynamic range, and its the same
whether I close mic or distant mic. Acoustical systems strongly tend to be
highly linear. Air is nonlinear, but just a little. What does change is
that distant micing picks up more of the room and the other instruments.
So, the instrument's dynamic range remains the same but perhaps the noise
floor rises.

makes you wonder what the ear does in real-time that mics don't......

It's got built-in AGC for a start, sending info on gain reduction as
well as the control signal to compensation modules later in the chain to
expand the perceived dynamic range. It's also got built in, volume
dependent equalisation......

The system used for listening to the output has excellent built in noise
rejection, too. It can, if necessary, make use of signals where the
noise almost swamps the required information.

These systems can be thrown out of adjustment by inaccurate levels when
playing back recorded sound, which is one reason to compress the dynamic
range of that sound. *Sometimes* it can sound more "real" than an
accurate recording.

JMO, of course.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Gill Smith]

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Gill Smith wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

An acoustic instrument has only so much dynamic range, and its the same
whether I close mic or distant mic. Acoustical systems strongly tend to
be highly linear. Air is nonlinear, but just a little. What does change
is that distant micing picks up more of the room and the other
instruments. So, the instrument's dynamic range remains the same but
perhaps the noise floor rises.

makes you wonder what the ear does in real-time that mics don't......

It's got built-in AGC for a start, sending info on gain reduction as well
as the control signal to compensation modules later in the chain to expand
the perceived dynamic range. It's also got built in, volume dependent
equalisation......

different shape too

ears funnel sound waves into them

mics all but relect/radiate them

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

[Bill Graham]

"sTeeVee" wrote in message
...
On Nov 15, 3:34 am, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"david correia" wrote in message

...



In article ,
"Bill Graham" wrote:

wrote in message
...

On 2010-11-14 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.songwriting
wrote:
big snip

A world in which real instruments have disappeared and the only
thing left are synthesizers would be a sad and empty world...
a horrible place to live, with no live acoustic music at all.
Nobody picking up a guitar in the airport lobby and singing to
their friends. No string quartets or orchestras playing real
music in real rooms with real audiences. What would be the
point of even living?
Just contemplating such a world makes me shudder.
I sure wish someone would get round to inventing a few more
instruments
like a keyboard that sounds good, folds up and doesn't weigh 3 tons
YEah I know, but a keyboard that sounds good has to move
some air some kind of way, including some low frequency
components.

My ROland with 88 key weighted action is passable, for the
bandstand, but a Steinway it ain't. Passable enough for a
combo gig, or even one man doing the dinner piano thing to
the masses who don't know better, but again, a quality piano
it sure as heck isn't.

One of the reasons why I took up, and currently play, a trumpet. The
pitiful
attempts to make a machine produce the beautiful sounds that emerge
from
the
trumpets and flugelhorns that I and my friends play are laughable.

Keep laughing while technology gets closer and closer every year.

Remember, they used to say man will never fly ;

I'm not worried.....I have heard the damndest things come out of a
trumpet....Growls, squeaks, pops and stuff you can't even imagine......I
doubt if they will ever get a machine to do all that stuff....Especially
when it part of the artists interpretation of the music. The machine is
just
too close to the performer, and too far away from being a
machine....Violins
are the same way. They, too, are too close to the performer. Consider
this.
A concert pianist can go out on stage and, using one finger, make a note
on
his piano. A two year old can also go out to the same piano and make the
same note, and no one can tell the difference, because the mechanics of
the
piano are doing all the work, and all the expertise consists of putting
many
notes together. But the concert trumpeter and violinist, can make one note
sound beautiful, much different from the two year old. These kinds of
instruments are very hard to reproduce mechanically, because their sound
comes from the soul of the performer. That's why I'm not worried....- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Y'know, I've been looking for a stinkin' midi keyboard that
*approaches* the feel of a real piano - even an old Baldwin spinette
clunker - for about 25 years. Not to be found. That doesn't even begin
to address the canned sound that comes out of an electronic instrument
versus the infinite complexity that comes off the sound board,
transmitting through the case, and into the room. Further, I'll take
great exception to the idea that you can't hear the difference between
a concert pianist and a 2 year old striking the same key. You can
*immediately* tell the difference from pianist to pianist. How a key
is struck is an extremely complex mechanical system (I'm speaking of
the human body here - not the piano action) controlled by an
unimaginably complex control system (the human brain.) If you are a
cursory listener, you might not be able to discern the difference. If
you have intimate knowledge of, and experience with the instrument,
you couldn't *not* tell the difference...immediately.

Sorry, but the true hammer action of a concert grand piano does not allow
for after-pressure on the key making any difference in the sound. What I
said above is true. Nobody can tell, when one note is struck whether that
note was struck by a concert artist or a child. Remember, we are talking
about just one note, struck without any instructions as to loudness, or
length of time held. (If I were the concert artist, and I wanted to
telegraph my presence to the audience, I would hold down the right pedal
while I struck the note, and hope the audience would hear the faint ringing
of the other strings and know that I was tall enough to reach that
pedal.....:^)

[Jason Warren]

In article 8b7bf04e-e14a-4b67-af01-
,
says...
But there's
still a need for compression someplace; listen to a well-recorded,
uncompressed, distant miked Mahler symphony sometime in your car. Turn
it down enough that the loud parts don't blast you against the
headrest, and the soft parts will be totally inaudible. To fix that
you need compression.

Ten years ago I rented a Chevy Impala for a
long trip. It was like piloting an ocean
liner compared to the little cars I drive.
It had a decent-sounding, stock audio system
with a CD player that had a "levelling"
switch to deal with the Mahler problem. It
worked beautifully. I have not seen another
stock system since with that feature. Why
not?

[PStamler]

On Nov 20, 9:33*am, Jason Warren wrote:
In article 8b7bf04e-e14a-4b67-af01-
,
says...
But there's

still a need for compression someplace; listen to a well-recorded,
uncompressed, distant miked Mahler symphony sometime in your car. Turn
it down enough that the loud parts don't blast you against the
headrest, and the soft parts will be totally inaudible. To fix that
you need compression.

Ten years ago I rented a Chevy Impala for a
long trip. It was like piloting an ocean
liner compared to the little cars I drive.
It had a decent-sounding, stock audio system
with a CD player that had a "levelling"
switch to deal with the Mahler problem. It
worked beautifully. I have not seen another
stock system since with that feature. Why
not?

It costs money.

Peace,
Paul

[Bill Graham]

"Jason Warren" wrote in message
...
In article 8b7bf04e-e14a-4b67-af01-
,
says...
But there's
still a need for compression someplace; listen to a well-recorded,
uncompressed, distant miked Mahler symphony sometime in your car. Turn
it down enough that the loud parts don't blast you against the
headrest, and the soft parts will be totally inaudible. To fix that
you need compression.

Ten years ago I rented a Chevy Impala for a
long trip. It was like piloting an ocean
liner compared to the little cars I drive.
It had a decent-sounding, stock audio system
with a CD player that had a "levelling"
switch to deal with the Mahler problem. It
worked beautifully. I have not seen another
stock system since with that feature. Why
not?

Because 99.9% of the people listen 99.9% of the time to "music" that sounds
99.9% like a boiler factory, that's why...:^)

[Gill Smith]

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
news

"Jason Warren" wrote in message
...
In article 8b7bf04e-e14a-4b67-af01-
,
says...
But there's
still a need for compression someplace; listen to a well-recorded,
uncompressed, distant miked Mahler symphony sometime in your car. Turn
it down enough that the loud parts don't blast you against the
headrest, and the soft parts will be totally inaudible. To fix that
you need compression.

Ten years ago I rented a Chevy Impala for a
long trip. It was like piloting an ocean
liner compared to the little cars I drive.
It had a decent-sounding, stock audio system
with a CD player that had a "levelling"
switch to deal with the Mahler problem. It
worked beautifully. I have not seen another
stock system since with that feature. Why
not?

Because 99.9% of the people listen 99.9% of the time to "music" that
sounds 99.9% like a boiler factory, that's why...:^)

though no fan of Meatloaf, I thought he had a couple of good songs

and cursed Todd Rundgren(sp?) for ruining them with his production
techniques

only to find that Todd records pretty much what a band plays, often in one
take

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/