[Angus Kerr]

Hi

I was going through Recording Hacks to get some info on the Samson C02's. Not that I want to do anything fancy, just an opportunity to get the 7 mic Samson kit (for about $200) with the C02's for miking and recording drum kits for live PA and reference recording purposes.

At one time I had 3 SM57's, when I was running a studio professionally. Well, they are the mic you can use on anything. Unfortunately, they slowly, one by one, disappeared until we had none left. Clip on drum mics are quite tempting for stage use, and believe me, we are not making release recordings here. I also had a 5 mic Samson kit. When I got it back once we shut down the studio, the Qkick was faulty (collapsed diaphragm) and 2 tom mics were missing. So I'm short on dynamics, and it seems like good value for $200.

Even though I'm only spending $200, I still like to know what I'm getting, so I wondered how they would compare to my Oktava MC012's in terms of self noise and frequency response. I still have a pair of ugly C1000s that look hideous but still work. I used to have a pair of Crown CM700s which also disappeared from the studio. I'm not about to use the MC012's for live work.

I wanted to check out both microphones against each other regarding specs. Then I saw the whole thing about Fergus McKay and Oktava and the Chinese copies sold at Guitar Centre. Then I saw the whole nasty blow up between the Russian factory and A McKay etc. Ironically, the trail leads back to here circa 2001?

Then I wondered if my Oktavas were genuine or not. I just took a look. Luckily, they've got that Russian patina. No serial number, but the other things like the metal clip and the -10db pad are there, and the screws are small and flat head. The box is plastic and says MK019, but the marking on the mics are MC019 and have the ugly ASM stamp. So by all accounts, they are genuine Russian, but pre 2002.

I was a victim of that whole thing that blew up round about 2002 - 04. I bought an Oktava tube mic, (as a workhorse alternative to the U67 I have) and after about 3 months the power supply released the magic smoke. I sent it back to the dealer who sold it to me, who sent it back to the distributor. I never ever saw that mic again. I'm still prety p***ed about that. There were numerous excuses about them not being genuine, and that ASM were not the authorised distributors. I never understood what that had to do with me paying good money for a mic that I wasn't even able to have a go at myself.

I remember Scott Dorsey describe the MC012 as 'beamy'. I never quite understood what he meant.

So, how's the C02? Worth having for live use?

--
Cheers, Angus Kerr.

Durban, South Africa

[Scott Dorsey]

Angus Kerr wrote:
I was going through Recording Hacks to get some info on the Samson C02's. N=
ot that I want to do anything fancy, just an opportunity to get the 7 mic S=
amson kit (for about $200) with the C02's for miking and recording drum kit=
s for live PA and reference recording purposes.

At one time I had 3 SM57's, when I was running a studio professionally. Wel=
l, they are the mic you can use on anything. Unfortunately, they slowly, on=
e by one, disappeared until we had none left. Clip on drum mics are quite t=
empting for stage use, and believe me, we are not making release recordings=
here. I also had a 5 mic Samson kit. When I got it back once we shut down =
the studio, the Qkick was faulty (collapsed diaphragm) and 2 tom mics were =
missing. So I'm short on dynamics, and it seems like good value for $200.

I don't think you'll be impressed with them compared with the Oktavas, but
they come free with the dynamics and you'll like the dynamics.

The AKG D880 sells very cheaply on the used market, and it's a great mike
for next to nothing. Likewise the EV 635A is a useful thing to have, and
you can find them for $25. The EV N/D 468 is a really really fine dynamic
without a presence peak (which is an increasingly rare thing) and shows up
for a reasonable price.

Even though I'm only spending $200, I still like to know what I'm getting, =
so I wondered how they would compare to my Oktava MC012's in terms of self =
noise and frequency response. I still have a pair of ugly C1000s that look =
hideous but still work. I used to have a pair of Crown CM700s which also di=
sappeared from the studio. I'm not about to use the MC012's for live work.

I think you will find that they are perfectly good right on-axis, but when
you pull them back and much of your sound is coming from off-axis that they
do not do so terribly well.

I wanted to check out both microphones against each other regarding specs. =
Then I saw the whole thing about Fergus McKay and Oktava and the Chinese co=
pies sold at Guitar Centre. Then I saw the whole nasty blow up between the =
Russian factory and A McKay etc. Ironically, the trail leads back to here c=
irca 2001?

Then I wondered if my Oktavas were genuine or not. I just took a look. Luck=
ily, they've got that Russian patina. No serial number, but the other thing=
s like the metal clip and the -10db pad are there, and the screws are small=
and flat head. The box is plastic and says MK019, but the marking on the m=
ics are MC019 and have the ugly ASM stamp. So by all accounts, they are gen=
uine Russian, but pre 2002.

Yes, this is a good thing. You could try my modification from Recording
magazine if you'd like, which pretty much brings them up to modern specs.

I was a victim of that whole thing that blew up round about 2002 - 04. I bo=
ught an Oktava tube mic, (as a workhorse alternative to the U67 I have) and=
after about 3 months the power supply released the magic smoke. I sent it =
back to the dealer who sold it to me, who sent it back to the distributor. =
I never ever saw that mic again. I'm still prety p***ed about that. There w=
ere numerous excuses about them not being genuine, and that ASM were not th=
e authorised distributors. I never understood what that had to do with me p=
aying good money for a mic that I wasn't even able to have a go at myself.

Yes, the 2500 wasn't actually made by Oktava at all. I don't know what the
exact story on it is, and I kind of wish I had bought one since they were
selling for $100 at Guitar Center for a while. But the dealer ought to be
making good on the thing. Guitar Center did.

I remember Scott Dorsey describe the MC012 as 'beamy'. I never quite unders=
tood what he meant.

Put the omni capsule on. Jingle keys right in front of it, and it's plenty
clean up top. Now, jingle keys 90 degrees off to the side, and it's a little
muffled. That's how it goes.

The high frequency directionality can be turned to your advantage sometimes,
but it can also be a pain in the neck too.

So, how's the C02? Worth having for live use?

I wouldn't bother, but if it comes free with a kit, try it.

I'll say that at one point I had to mike a jazz band and all I had was
my personal 441 and five Audix drum mike kits sent by the rental company.
It was a bit of an adventure trying to figure out how to use the Audix mikes
but they were actually not bad (and the D3 was very very handy). There is
no useless mike, but there are a lot of mikes that cost too much for their
uses.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Angus Kerr]

On 24/09/2015 01:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
-snip-

I don't think you'll be impressed with them compared with the Oktavas, but
they come free with the dynamics and you'll like the dynamics.

At least I'm getting something for my money...
The AKG D880 sells very cheaply on the used market, and it's a great mike
for next to nothing. Likewise the EV 635A is a useful thing to have, and
you can find them for $25. The EV N/D 468 is a really really fine dynamic
without a presence peak (which is an increasingly rare thing) and shows up
for a reasonable price.

I see that the 635 is omni. Interesting.
Even though I'm only spending $200, I still like to know what I'm getting, =
so I wondered how they would compare to my Oktava MC012's in terms of self =
noise and frequency response. I still have a pair of ugly C1000s that look =
hideous but still work. I used to have a pair of Crown CM700s which also di=
sappeared from the studio. I'm not about to use the MC012's for live work.

I think you will find that they are perfectly good right on-axis, but when
you pull them back and much of your sound is coming from off-axis that they
do not do so terribly well.

Hence the reason you can get a pair for under $100?

-snip-
So by all accounts, they are gen=
uine Russian, but pre 2002.

Yes, this is a good thing. You could try my modification from Recording
magazine if you'd like, which pretty much brings them up to modern specs.

I will certainly give it a try. If it makes them better, I'm all for it, as I like them already. The pc board assembly looks pretty agricultural!

-snip-
Yes, the 2500 wasn't actually made by Oktava at all. I don't know what the
exact story on it is, and I kind of wish I had bought one since they were
selling for $100 at Guitar Center for a while. But the dealer ought to be
making good on the thing. Guitar Center did.

I haven't forgiven them for that. It wasn't big money, but it was money....

-snip-
Put the omni capsule on. Jingle keys right in front of it, and it's plenty
clean up top. Now, jingle keys 90 degrees off to the side, and it's a little
muffled. That's how it goes.

The high frequency directionality can be turned to your advantage sometimes,
but it can also be a pain in the neck too.

Aha. I'm so used to recording in bad rooms that Omni's are out of the question. So I'd never have picked this up. But it does leave me vulnerable if I ever want to record spaced omni's in a great room....

So, how's the C02? Worth having for live use?

I wouldn't bother, but if it comes free with a kit, try it.

Thanks. I guess from your description they either need to be very close to a point source,
or very far from a bigger source such as a drumkit to work on axis? It'll be fun
finding out how to use them effectively. I guess maybe those ugly C1000s might have to be
used for overheads. I've never liked them particularly, I thought they sounded a bit klanky.

I'll say that at one point I had to mike a jazz band and all I had was
my personal 441 and five Audix drum mike kits sent by the rental company.
It was a bit of an adventure trying to figure out how to use the Audix mikes
but they were actually not bad (and the D3 was very very handy). There is
no useless mike, but there are a lot of mikes that cost too much for their
uses.
--scott


Thanks for the info,

--
Cheers, Angus Kerr.

Durban, South Africa

[ramtazz]

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:06:43 -0700 (PDT), Angus Kerr
wrote:

Hi

I was going through Recording Hacks to get some info on the Samson C02's. Not that I want to do anything fancy, just an opportunity to get the 7 mic Samson kit (for about $200) with the C02's for miking and recording drum kits for live PA and reference recording purposes.

At one time I had 3 SM57's, when I was running a studio professionally. Well, they are the mic you can use on anything. Unfortunately, they slowly, one by one, disappeared until we had none left. Clip on drum mics are quite tempting for stage use, and believe me, we are not making release recordings here. I also had a 5 mic Samson kit. When I got it back once we shut down the studio, the Qkick was faulty (collapsed diaphragm) and 2 tom mics were missing. So I'm short on dynamics, and it seems like good value for $200.

Even though I'm only spending $200, I still like to know what I'm getting, so I wondered how they would compare to my Oktava MC012's in terms of self noise and frequency response. I still have a pair of ugly C1000s that look hideous but still work. I used to have a pair of Crown CM700s which also disappeared from the studio. I'm not about to use the MC012's for live work.

I wanted to check out both microphones against each other regarding specs. Then I saw the whole thing about Fergus McKay and Oktava and the Chinese copies sold at Guitar Centre. Then I saw the whole nasty blow up between the Russian factory and A McKay etc. Ironically, the trail leads back to here circa 2001?

Then I wondered if my Oktavas were genuine or not. I just took a look. Luckily, they've got that Russian patina. No serial number, but the other things like the metal clip and the -10db pad are there, and the screws are small and flat head. The box is plastic and says MK019, but the marking on the mics are MC019 and have the ugly ASM stamp. So by all accounts, they are genuine Russian, but pre 2002.

I was a victim of that whole thing that blew up round about 2002 - 04. I bought an Oktava tube mic, (as a workhorse alternative to the U67 I have) and after about 3 months the power supply released the magic smoke. I sent it back to the dealer who sold it to me, who sent it back to the distributor. I never ever saw that mic again. I'm still prety p***ed about that. There were numerous excuses about them not being genuine, and that ASM were not the authorised distributors. I never understood what that had to do with me paying good money for a mic that I wasn't even able to have a go at myself.

I remember Scott Dorsey describe the MC012 as 'beamy'. I never quite understood what he meant.

So, how's the C02? Worth having for live use?


I've had a stereo pair of the CO2s for about 12 years... love them.
Great on overheads, stereo micing a band or room mics... stereo on any
instrument sans lower bass of course. Reccommended!!

I'd also advice a security system in your studio....

Bill