[hank alrich]

Bill Graham wrote:

I can't help it if there are 99 teenager guitar players for
every trumpet player in the world, so I have to reconfigure guitar equipment
to be suitable for a trumpet, but I sure don't have to like it, and I can
reserve the right to complain about it.

Bill, what you're looking for is out there, waiting for you to find and
use it.

There is no need to be messing with "guitar equipment" for trumpet.
Hell, I generally don't use guitar equipment with my guitars.

A Mackie SRM350 (powered speaker) makes a fine amp. One of their Onyx
mixers makes a fine little preamp. A vertiable plethora of effects
devices are out there and once you move out of the stompbox category you
have access to the stuff you'd hea on a major trumpet recording if such
effects were employed therein.

It's all there, man, seriously, and affordably, too.

I also want to share some of the problems involved with (hopefully) other
horn players out there who are having the same problems I am having.

Honestly, I think some of the problems you face result from you now
being aware of what's out there that would work for your purposes.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[[email protected]]

On 2010-11-21 (hankalrich) said:
I can't help it if there are 99 teenager guitar players for
every trumpet player in the world, so I have to reconfigure
guitar equipment to be suitable for a trumpet, but I sure don't
have to like it, and I can reserve the right to complain about it.
Bill, what you're looking for is out there, waiting for you to find
and use it.
There is no need to be messing with "guitar equipment" for trumpet.
Hell, I generally don't use guitar equipment with my guitars.
Agreed, especially for acoustig guitars, etc.

A Mackie SRM350 (powered speaker) makes a fine amp. One of their
Onyx mixers makes a fine little preamp. A veritable plethora of
effects devices are out there and once you move out of the stompbox
category you have access to the stuff you'd hear on a major trumpet
recording if such effects were employed therein.
It's all there, man, seriously, and affordably, too.

I'd agree with Hank here. INstead of trying to rube
GOldberg together something which doesn't do the job
adequately get the right kit to start with. Much more
productive use of one's time than trying to reinvent that
wheel.

wHich is one reason why a few months ago when MR. Graham
started appearing in this group when I saw his complaints re
stomp boxes and horns it wasn't long before you heard the
familiar sound of

plunk

I also want to share some of the problems involved with
(hopefully) other horn players out there who are having the same
problems I am having.
Honestly, I think some of the problems you face result
from you not
being aware of what's out there that would work for your purposes.

I'd agree with that assessment.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/21/2010 10:53 AM, philicorda wrote:

You are looking for effects that are microphone compatible, rather than
specifically trumpet compatible. The usual answer to this is to use a
preamp and a rack effects unit.

I think the original poster recognized this, but wanted
something with the form factor of a guitar pedal that he
could clip to his belt rather than have to carry a rack or a
couple of separate units.

There are a number of floor or mic-stand mounted vocal
processors, but "chorus" to a vocalist usually means harmony
parts, not a swirly detuned effect that it means to a guitar
player. I'm not sure what the trumpet player is after, but
I'd imagine the multiple voices rather than they phasey
effect, but who knows?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Bill Graham]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:02:43 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

Hey! I worked my whole life to get where I am now, and I want what I
want. If the manufacturers in the world want my money, they will
have to design and build it. I can't help it if there are 99
teenager guitar players for every trumpet player in the world, so I
have to reconfigure guitar equipment to be suitable for a trumpet,
but I sure don't have to like it, and I can reserve the right to
complain about it. I also want to share some of the problems
involved with (hopefully) other horn players out there who are
having the same problems I am having.


People of a certain age have a tendency to ossify. This hardening
creates a false sense of entitlement. They mistakenly believe that
things should be done THEIR way. If the problem is not relieved, they
frequently dig their heels in until their ankle (or hip) breaks. The
bed rest results in pneumonia and they die. Hence the saying, "Get
limber or die."

This is rec.audio.pro, not rec.bitchandcomplain.

Get over it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

You are free to talk about whatever problems you are having, and I claim the
same right... So, I suggest that YOU get over it. You can always kill file
me if my problems are too much for you to bear...:^)

[Bill Graham]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/20/2010 7:51 PM, Bill Graham wrote:

I am currently trying to figure
out how to take pictures with my new Nikon D 700 camera. Not
just take them, but download them to my computer, clean them
up, and save/email them.

But, you see, you never used to have to do that with your
film camera. You set the shutter speed and F stop, took the
picture, took the film to the drug store, got back the
pictures, showed them around, sent copies to the relatives,
and put them away in the closet where your grandchildren
might enjoy them some day.

Now what are you going to do with that hard drive?

There are still plenty of film cameras around that work,
there are still people who repair them, you can still buy
film, and you can still get it processed. Why do you even
have a digital camera? I can't say this about your Nikon
D700, but my Fuji FinePix A205 that I've had for about 7
years now cost less (I bought it when I found a reasonable
digital camera for $100) than having my Leica M3 tuned up,
and I can take pictures that I can easily insert into
articles that I write and publish on-line or in magazines.
So it serves a useful purpose. I still enjoy looking through
prints of photos that I took in the '60s, but the photos I
take with my digital camera are purely utilitarian.

Yes. I still have my F5, and it still takes better pictures than the digital
equivalent. but scanning those slides into my computer so I can Photoshop
and email tham to people is a royal PITA. It makes far more sense to get
them digitized right out of the camera. And, unless I need to blow them up
to like 12 x 18 or larger, it really doesn't make much difference. Besides,
I am 75. I might as well play with a few toys in the limited time I have
left...:^)

[Bill Graham]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/20/2010 8:02 PM, Bill Graham wrote:

I also want to share some of the problems involved
with (hopefully) other horn players out there who are having
the same problems I am having.

Why don't you write an article for a trumpet player's
magazine? Maybe they'll publish it if they think they have
enough readers who have the same problem you have.

I think it's too late. There aren't any "trumpet players magazines" still in
business that I know of.....Part of the dumbing down of Americs is the
demise of reading material. People who can't read have no use for it.

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Graham wrote:

Yes. I still have my F5, and it still takes better pictures than the digital
equivalent. but scanning those slides into my computer so I can Photoshop
and email tham to people is a royal PITA. It makes far more sense to get
them digitized right out of the camera.

Ask your local lab how much it costs to develop and scan without printing.
If you take them to your local Walgreens, it's something like six or seven
dollars and they hand you a CD an hour later. Very convenient.

And, unless I need to blow them up
to like 12 x 18 or larger, it really doesn't make much difference. Besides,
I am 75. I might as well play with a few toys in the limited time I have
left...:^)

You've only got another 25 years or so to get really good with the F5,
then. Why throw away the headstart you have?
--scott
(who just finished processing the photos he took at the AES show
with a Crown Graphic... and they look great...)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Graham]

philicorda wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:02:43 -0800, Bill Graham wrote:

snip
Hey! I worked my whole life to get where I am now, and I want what I
want. If the manufacturers in the world want my money, they will
have to design and build it. I can't help it if there are 99
teenager guitar players for every trumpet player in the world, so I
have to reconfigure guitar equipment to be suitable for a trumpet,
but I sure don't have to like it, and I can reserve the right to
complain about it. I also want to share some of the problems
involved with (hopefully) other horn players out there who are
having the same problems I am having.

You are looking for effects that are microphone compatible, rather
than specifically trumpet compatible. The usual answer to this is to
use a preamp and a rack effects unit. This will generally give better
results than using guitar pedals, which are a bit low-fidelity. I'd
recommend the Lexicon Reflex for a good cheap effects rack with a
nice chorus.

There have been very few effects that are specifically for brass
instruments. The Selmer Varitone for sax is the only example I can
think of. This is a special case though, as they used a ceramic
pickup inside the instrument to get a cleanish pulse wave, which was
great for driving an octave divider, or for filtering and distorting
for other effects with the advantage of good feedback immunity.

I don't think a trumpet works in quite the same way, (as in you don't
get a nice pulse wave by putting pickups inside it).

You are correct. (you must be a musician) I do have some good rack mounted
units. (my TSR-24 still does an excellent job) I was looking for smaller
units that are more portable, that I can easily take to local dances in the
area and set up easily. The best ones I have found for this are units made
for vocalists, like the TC Helicon stuff.....It's also very reasonably
priced, and ruggedly built. Actually, a guitar, trumpet, and human voice
aren't that much different. Any unit that works decently well with one, will
work pretty well with the other two. And matching the input and output
levels at audio frequencies isn't that big a problem, either. It gives me
something to screw around with and keeps me interested at my advanced
age...:^)

[Bill Graham]

hank alrich wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:

I can't help it if there are 99 teenager guitar players for
every trumpet player in the world, so I have to reconfigure guitar
equipment to be suitable for a trumpet, but I sure don't have to
like it, and I can reserve the right to complain about it.

Bill, what you're looking for is out there, waiting for you to find
and use it.

There is no need to be messing with "guitar equipment" for trumpet.
Hell, I generally don't use guitar equipment with my guitars.

A Mackie SRM350 (powered speaker) makes a fine amp. One of their Onyx
mixers makes a fine little preamp. A vertiable plethora of effects
devices are out there and once you move out of the stompbox category
you have access to the stuff you'd hea on a major trumpet recording
if such effects were employed therein.

It's all there, man, seriously, and affordably, too.

I also want to share some of the problems involved with (hopefully)
other horn players out there who are having the same problems I am
having.

Honestly, I think some of the problems you face result from you now
being aware of what's out there that would work for your purposes.

Thanks. I am currently using a Behrenger K450 FX 45 watt amp, which works
pretty well, and has adequate power for the gigs I play. It is made for
keyboards and has a couple of good microphone inputs. I will look into the
Mackie SRM 350. I can always use anything that weighs a little less. The
kind of music I play could benefit from stereo chorus effects, too, so I
would like to go to a stereo amp system with dual speakers. And, of course,
light weight equipment is always a plus. I have to haul everything from my
car trunk into the gigs on a small platform truck. I have a foldable model I
bought from Grizzely for about $100. It is very convenient, and holds up to
400 pounds.

[Bill Graham]

wrote:
On 2010-11-21 (hankalrich) said:
I can't help it if there are 99 teenager guitar players for
every trumpet player in the world, so I have to reconfigure
guitar equipment to be suitable for a trumpet, but I sure don't
have to like it, and I can reserve the right to complain about
it. Bill, what you're looking for is out there, waiting for you to
find and use it.
There is no need to be messing with "guitar equipment" for trumpet.
Hell, I generally don't use guitar equipment with my guitars.
Agreed, especially for acoustig guitars, etc.

A Mackie SRM350 (powered speaker) makes a fine amp. One of their
Onyx mixers makes a fine little preamp. A veritable plethora of
effects devices are out there and once you move out of the stompbox
category you have access to the stuff you'd hear on a major trumpet
recording if such effects were employed therein.
It's all there, man, seriously, and affordably, too.

I'd agree with Hank here. INstead of trying to rube
GOldberg together something which doesn't do the job
adequately get the right kit to start with. Much more
productive use of one's time than trying to reinvent that
wheel.

wHich is one reason why a few months ago when MR. Graham
started appearing in this group when I saw his complaints re
stomp boxes and horns it wasn't long before you heard the
familiar sound of

plunk

I also want to share some of the problems involved with
(hopefully) other horn players out there who are having the same
problems I am having.
Honestly, I think some of the problems you face result
from you not
being aware of what's out there that would work for your purposes.

I'd agree with that assessment.

Ha! Both of the above statements were mine.....I am "Mr. Graham. (plonk)

[Ty Ford]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:03 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

People of a certain age have a tendency to ossify. This hardening
creates a false sense of entitlement. They mistakenly believe that
things should be done THEIR way. If the problem is not relieved, they
frequently dig their heels in until their ankle (or hip) breaks. The
bed rest results in pneumonia and they die. Hence the saying, "Get
limber or die."

This is rec.audio.pro, not rec.bitchandcomplain.

Get over it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

You are free to talk about whatever problems you are having, and I claim the
same right... So, I suggest that YOU get over it. You can always kill file
me if my problems are too much for you to bear...:^)


Bill,

It's your attitude that's a pain. Next time come looking for answers openly
and empty your spleen on your own time and elsewhere.

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Bill Graham]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:03 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

People of a certain age have a tendency to ossify. This hardening
creates a false sense of entitlement. They mistakenly believe that
things should be done THEIR way. If the problem is not relieved,
they frequently dig their heels in until their ankle (or hip)
breaks. The bed rest results in pneumonia and they die. Hence the
saying, "Get limber or die."

This is rec.audio.pro, not rec.bitchandcomplain.

Get over it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

You are free to talk about whatever problems you are having, and I
claim the same right... So, I suggest that YOU get over it. You can
always kill file me if my problems are too much for you to bear...:^)


Bill,

It's your attitude that's a pain. Next time come looking for answers
openly and empty your spleen on your own time and elsewhere.

Ty Ford

In the first place, I am not the one who wrote, the first paragraph above.
(The one that starts, "People of a certain age....") So, I don't know what,
"attitude" you are talking about, or what the whole message means, or what
you would like me to do to correct the situation. Please be specific, and
tell me what you would like me to do, and/or cite a real post of mine that
you are having problems with. I like to think that my age gives me a lot of
experience, and that there are some people who could (and would like to)
benefit from that experience. I have seen a lot of changes to my world in 75
years, and some of them are not very good.

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:29:20 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:03 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

People of a certain age have a tendency to ossify. This hardening
creates a false sense of entitlement. They mistakenly believe that
things should be done THEIR way. If the problem is not relieved,
they frequently dig their heels in until their ankle (or hip)
breaks. The bed rest results in pneumonia and they die. Hence the
saying, "Get limber or die."

This is rec.audio.pro, not rec.bitchandcomplain.

Get over it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

You are free to talk about whatever problems you are having, and I
claim the same right... So, I suggest that YOU get over it. You can
always kill file me if my problems are too much for you to bear...:^)


Bill,

It's your attitude that's a pain. Next time come looking for answers
openly and empty your spleen on your own time and elsewhere.

Ty Ford

In the first place, I am not the one who wrote, the first paragraph above.
(The one that starts, "People of a certain age....") So, I don't know what,
"attitude" you are talking about, or what the whole message means, or what
you would like me to do to correct the situation. Please be specific, and
tell me what you would like me to do, and/or cite a real post of mine that
you are having problems with. I like to think that my age gives me a lot of
experience, and that there are some people who could (and would like to)
benefit from that experience. I have seen a lot of changes to my world in 75
years, and some of them are not very good.


Bill,

I'll try and clear it up for ya. I wrote "people of a certain age..."

The original post sounded more like a lift from "Grumpy Old Men."

BTW, grey hair (or no hair) is a sign of age, not wisdom (necessarily).

I think the moment has passed. I'd rather move forward and work on new things
than poke a stick at the old ones.

Hope you and yours have a tolerable or better T-day.

Regards,

Ty Ford







--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Bill Graham]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:29:20 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

Ty Ford wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:03 -0500, Bill Graham wrote
(in article ) :

People of a certain age have a tendency to ossify. This hardening
creates a false sense of entitlement. They mistakenly believe that
things should be done THEIR way. If the problem is not relieved,
they frequently dig their heels in until their ankle (or hip)
breaks. The bed rest results in pneumonia and they die. Hence the
saying, "Get limber or die."

This is rec.audio.pro, not rec.bitchandcomplain.

Get over it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

You are free to talk about whatever problems you are having, and I
claim the same right... So, I suggest that YOU get over it. You can
always kill file me if my problems are too much for you to
bear...:^)


Bill,

It's your attitude that's a pain. Next time come looking for answers
openly and empty your spleen on your own time and elsewhere.

Ty Ford

In the first place, I am not the one who wrote, the first paragraph
above. (The one that starts, "People of a certain age....") So, I
don't know what, "attitude" you are talking about, or what the whole
message means, or what you would like me to do to correct the
situation. Please be specific, and tell me what you would like me to
do, and/or cite a real post of mine that you are having problems
with. I like to think that my age gives me a lot of experience, and
that there are some people who could (and would like to) benefit
from that experience. I have seen a lot of changes to my world in 75
years, and some of them are not very good.


Bill,

I'll try and clear it up for ya. I wrote "people of a certain age..."

The original post sounded more like a lift from "Grumpy Old Men."

BTW, grey hair (or no hair) is a sign of age, not wisdom
(necessarily).

I think the moment has passed. I'd rather move forward and work on
new things than poke a stick at the old ones.

Hope you and yours have a tolerable or better T-day.

Regards,

Ty Ford



I will. I am a grumpy old man, but eating Turkey always puts me in a good
mood....:^)

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:51:41 -0800, Bill Graham wrote:

snip
You are correct. (you must be a musician) I do have some good rack
mounted units. (my TSR-24 still does an excellent job) I was looking for
smaller units that are more portable, that I can easily take to local
dances in the area and set up easily. The best ones I have found for
this are units made for vocalists, like the TC Helicon stuff.....It's
also very reasonably priced, and ruggedly built. Actually, a guitar,
trumpet, and human voice aren't that much different. Any unit that works
decently well with one, will work pretty well with the other two. And
matching the input and output levels at audio frequencies isn't that big
a problem, either. It gives me something to screw around with and keeps
me interested at my advanced age...:^)

Ah, I understand now. I must have missed the start of the thread.

I have some sympathy with you about finding the right tools for
performance, rather than recording. I do a fair amount of live music for
theatre/modern dance, which involves creating the kind of soundtracks
that are normally made in a studio, rather than on stage.

A guy I work with uses the Digitech Vocal 300 and it seems a versatile
device. It has a built in expression pedal too, which is really handy for
fading in and altering effects in real time.

[Bill Graham]

philicorda wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:51:41 -0800, Bill Graham wrote:

snip
You are correct. (you must be a musician) I do have some good rack
mounted units. (my TSR-24 still does an excellent job) I was looking
for smaller units that are more portable, that I can easily take to
local dances in the area and set up easily. The best ones I have
found for this are units made for vocalists, like the TC Helicon
stuff.....It's also very reasonably priced, and ruggedly built.
Actually, a guitar, trumpet, and human voice aren't that much
different. Any unit that works decently well with one, will work
pretty well with the other two. And matching the input and output
levels at audio frequencies isn't that big a problem, either. It
gives me something to screw around with and keeps me interested at
my advanced age...:^)

Ah, I understand now. I must have missed the start of the thread.

I have some sympathy with you about finding the right tools for
performance, rather than recording. I do a fair amount of live music
for theatre/modern dance, which involves creating the kind of
soundtracks that are normally made in a studio, rather than on stage.

A guy I work with uses the Digitech Vocal 300 and it seems a versatile
device. It has a built in expression pedal too, which is really handy
for fading in and altering effects in real time.

Yes. I keep hoping that they (someone) will come out with a vocal harmonizer
that takes foot pedal signals to base the harmony on fourths, instead of
fifths. Right now, there are several units on the market that change their
harmony base with the chording of a guitar input. I can't use a guitar
input, but my ear will tell me when to push a foot button that changes the
type of harmony as the song I am playing progresses.

[hank alrich]

Bill Graham wrote:

Yes. I keep hoping that they (someone) will come out with a vocal harmonizer
that takes foot pedal signals to base the harmony on fourths, instead of
fifths.

This can be easily managed with any of many many different processors
and a MIDI foot pedal controller.


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman