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#1
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has
developed an overtone-rattle. I have checked all of the hardware and tightened/retuned both the top and bottom heads. I could not localize the offending sound well, except it seems - slightly - to be louder on the side closest to the other rack tom. I would have thought that maybe the rattle was coming from inside my head, but my friend heard it too. I put in Etymotic ER6I noise-isolating earphones and covered my ears further with some Howard Leight "ear muffs" to further isolate my hearing, and used a hypercardiod to try to find the sound. Can such an overtone/rattle develop from the shell itself? Nothing new or bad has happened to the kit: it has been in my climate controlled studio since 1998. In a full mix, the sound is probably inaudible to a casual listener, but now for me, it's like Poe's Telltale Heart. Any wizened studio guru and/or veteran drummer with a silver bullet cure-all? I do have a bigger tom I could put up, but I just want to try to fix this. Thanks. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
Here are some procedures for chasing rattles and buzzes:
Isolate the drum from the rest of the set or take it into another room. Hold it by hooking a finger under one of the tension rods and hang it while striking the drum head. (tighten or remove any mounting hardware still attached) Does it still rattle? If no, then the noise is not from that drum but from some other part of the set. If yes, then there are only a few possible sources for the noise. Mounting hardware is the most common problem, sometimes it just buzzes and needs an overhaul or replacement (check any tiny allen screws). Lug bolts/screws can loosen inside the drum and there is a spring inside most lugs which needs to be properly damped. The lug must be removed to check the spring. Sometimes the head itself can rattle if in need of replacement. The shell could rattle if cracked but rarely. A bad bearing edge could produce a buzz. darrelldklein wrote: The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has developed an overtone-rattle. I have checked all of the hardware and tightened/retuned both the top and bottom heads. I could not localize the offending sound well, except it seems - slightly - to be louder on the side closest to the other rack tom. I would have thought that maybe the rattle was coming from inside my head, but my friend heard it too. I put in Etymotic ER6I noise-isolating earphones and covered my ears further with some Howard Leight "ear muffs" to further isolate my hearing, and used a hypercardiod to try to find the sound. Can such an overtone/rattle develop from the shell itself? Nothing new or bad has happened to the kit: it has been in my climate controlled studio since 1998. In a full mix, the sound is probably inaudible to a casual listener, but now for me, it's like Poe's Telltale Heart. Any wizened studio guru and/or veteran drummer with a silver bullet cure-all? I do have a bigger tom I could put up, but I just want to try to fix this. Thanks. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 5, 2:26 am, "Eggbert" wrote:
Here are some procedures for chasing rattles and buzzes: Isolate the drum from the rest of the set or take it into another room. Hold it by hooking a finger under one of the tension rods and hang it while striking the drum head. (tighten or remove any mounting hardware still attached) Does it still rattle? If no, then the noise is not from that drum but from some other part of the set. If yes, then there are only a few possible sources for the noise. Mounting hardware is the most common problem, sometimes it just buzzes and needs an overhaul or replacement (check any tiny allen screws). Lug bolts/screws can loosen inside the drum and there is a spring inside most lugs which needs to be properly damped. The lug must be removed to check the spring. Sometimes the head itself can rattle if in need of replacement. The shell could rattle if cracked but rarely. A bad bearing edge could produce a buzz. darrelldklein wrote: The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has developed an overtone-rattle. I have checked all of the hardware and tightened/retuned both the top and bottom heads. I could not localize the offending sound well, except it seems - slightly - to be louder on the side closest to the other rack tom. I would have thought that maybe the rattle was coming from inside my head, but my friend heard it too. I put in Etymotic ER6I noise-isolating earphones and covered my ears further with some Howard Leight "ear muffs" to further isolate my hearing, and used a hypercardiod to try to find the sound. Can such an overtone/rattle develop from the shell itself? Nothing new or bad has happened to the kit: it has been in my climate controlled studio since 1998. In a full mix, the sound is probably inaudible to a casual listener, but now for me, it's like Poe's Telltale Heart. Any wizened studio guru and/or veteran drummer with a silver bullet cure-all? I do have a bigger tom I could put up, but I just want to try to fix this. Thanks.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks. The bearing edge is something I wondered about. I will do everything you mentioned and put new heads on. What's the treatment for the bearing edge: check it to see if it's smooth and sand it if it is not? Thanks again. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
"darrelldklein" wrote in message
oups.com... On Mar 5, 2:26 am, "Eggbert" wrote: Here are some procedures for chasing rattles and buzzes: Isolate the drum from the rest of the set or take it into another room. Hold it by hooking a finger under one of the tension rods and hang it while striking the drum head. (tighten or remove any mounting hardware still attached) Does it still rattle? If no, then the noise is not from that drum but from some other part of the set. If yes, then there are only a few possible sources for the noise. Mounting hardware is the most common problem, sometimes it just buzzes and needs an overhaul or replacement (check any tiny allen screws). Lug bolts/screws can loosen inside the drum and there is a spring inside most lugs which needs to be properly damped. The lug must be removed to check the spring. Sometimes the head itself can rattle if in need of replacement. The shell could rattle if cracked but rarely. A bad bearing edge could produce a buzz. Thanks. The bearing edge is something I wondered about. I will do everything you mentioned and put new heads on. What's the treatment for the bearing edge: check it to see if it's smooth and sand it if it is not? Thanks again. Eggbert gave you a lot of great advice but I'd caution you to avoid trying to make any changes to the bearing edge unless you are really sure you know what you are doing. It's easier to make a bearing edge worse than better by trying to 'fix' it. Like Eggbert said, it's most likely the lug bolts/washers or the spring. Best of luck! John L Rice |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 5, 9:50 am, "John L Rice" wrote:
"darrelldklein" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 5, 2:26 am, "Eggbert" wrote: Here are some procedures for chasing rattles and buzzes: Isolate the drum from the rest of the set or take it into another room. Hold it by hooking a finger under one of the tension rods and hang it while striking the drum head. (tighten or remove any mounting hardware still attached) Does it still rattle? If no, then the noise is not from that drum but from some other part of the set. If yes, then there are only a few possible sources for the noise. Mounting hardware is the most common problem, sometimes it just buzzes and needs an overhaul or replacement (check any tiny allen screws). Lug bolts/screws can loosen inside the drum and there is a spring inside most lugs which needs to be properly damped. The lug must be removed to check the spring. Sometimes the head itself can rattle if in need of replacement. The shell could rattle if cracked but rarely. A bad bearing edge could produce a buzz. Thanks. The bearing edge is something I wondered about. I will do everything you mentioned and put new heads on. What's the treatment for the bearing edge: check it to see if it's smooth and sand it if it is not? Thanks again. Eggbert gave you a lot of great advice but I'd caution you to avoid trying to make any changes to the bearing edge unless you are really sure you know what you are doing. It's easier to make a bearing edge worse than better by trying to 'fix' it. Like Eggbert said, it's most likely the lug bolts/washers or the spring. Best of luck! John L Rice- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Instead of repeatedly hitting the drum, you might try setting up a speaker nearby and sending a tone, sweeping to get the resonance frequency that excites the buzz in a steady fashion, then you might be able to localize the source easier, by pressing one various parts etc. You may want to wear hearing protection ... Mark |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 5, 12:17 pm, "Mark" wrote:
On Mar 5, 9:50 am, "John L Rice" wrote: "darrelldklein" wrote in message roups.com... On Mar 5, 2:26 am, "Eggbert" wrote: Here are some procedures for chasing rattles and buzzes: Isolate the drum from the rest of the set or take it into another room. Hold it by hooking a finger under one of the tension rods and hang it while striking the drum head. (tighten or remove any mounting hardware still attached) Does it still rattle? If no, then the noise is not from that drum but from some other part of the set. If yes, then there are only a few possible sources for the noise. Mounting hardware is the most common problem, sometimes it just buzzes and needs an overhaul or replacement (check any tiny allen screws). Lug bolts/screws can loosen inside the drum and there is a spring inside most lugs which needs to be properly damped. The lug must be removed to check the spring. Sometimes the head itself can rattle if in need of replacement. The shell could rattle if cracked but rarely. A bad bearing edge could produce a buzz. Thanks. The bearing edge is something I wondered about. I will do everything you mentioned and put new heads on. What's the treatment for the bearing edge: check it to see if it's smooth and sand it if it is not? Thanks again. Eggbert gave you a lot of great advice but I'd caution you to avoid trying to make any changes to the bearing edge unless you are really sure you know what you are doing. It's easier to make a bearing edge worse than better by trying to 'fix' it. Like Eggbert said, it's most likely the lug bolts/washers or the spring. Best of luck! John L Rice- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Instead of repeatedly hitting the drum, you might try setting up a speaker nearby and sending a tone, sweeping to get the resonance frequency that excites the buzz in a steady fashion, then you might be able to localize the source easier, by pressing one various parts etc. You may want to wear hearing protection ... Mark- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks Mark. Good idea. I have hearing protection. Thanks John: I don't want to turn a minor iritation into a ruined drum. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
Instead of repeatedly hitting the drum, you might try setting up a
speaker nearby and sending a tone, sweeping to get the resonance frequency that excites the buzz in a steady fashion, then you might be able to localize the source easier, by pressing one various parts etc. You may want to wear hearing protection ... Mark Good idea Mark! Another simpler thing to try would be to hit the drum softly with a concert bass drum mallet or gong mallet to create a lot of vibration with no real high end. should be easier to hear the rattle. If you don't have concert percussion mallets handy (doesn't everyone??? ;-) you can use the beater off of the bass drum pedal. Wrap a sock or two around it, especially if it's wood or plastic! John L Rice |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 5, 11:03 pm, "John L Rice" wrote:
Instead of repeatedly hitting the drum, you might try setting up a speaker nearby and sending a tone, sweeping to get the resonance frequency that excites the buzz in a steady fashion, then you might be able to localize the source easier, by pressing one various parts etc. You may want to wear hearing protection ... Mark Good idea Mark! Another simpler thing to try would be to hit the drum softly with a concert bass drum mallet or gong mallet to create a lot of vibration with no real high end. should be easier to hear the rattle. If you don't have concert percussion mallets handy (doesn't everyone??? ;-) you can use the beater off of the bass drum pedal. Wrap a sock or two around it, especially if it's wood or plastic! John L Rice Another good idea. I have a couple extra Speed King pedals, I'll use the beater off of one. I actually had some mallets at one time. I can't seem to find them. Thanks again. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
drummer geek here. sounds like a pain in the ass. a good way to check
the bearing edge is to take the heads off and sit it on a very very very VERY flat surface, such as like a kitchen table, and shine a light around inside it and look outside and see if you see it under the edge. leave bearing edge work to pros though. easy to schmuck everything up. check with your local drum shop. check the lugs and hardware too like everyone said. if you get some rattles, you might need to pack your lugs with some dampening material. itll take a day, but itll be worth it in the long run if these sorta sounds bother you. isolating it from the room is good too like they said, and a good ole quiet press roll, or a frequency sweep should find your noise. good luck! if you continue to have probs email me. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 4, 11:54 pm, "darrelldklein" wrote:
The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has developed an overtone-rattle. (snip) Don here, I had the identical problem, although since your kit is approx 30 years older than mine it may very well be something loose. But... My rattle came from the overhead light fixture. Made me nuts until I found it. Good luck. Don O. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
Darrell,
Sorry i missed the beginning of the thread and can't 'get it back' per se. The rattle may be caused by the small spring inside each lug holder on the tom. Listen for where the rattle is. A set that old can easily be in need of some TLC, especially all the drumhead lug holders. Another possibility is the inner screws that hold the lug holder to the wooden drum or (maybe but doubtful) the mounting system. Hope this helps, as was a drum technician for years and still play my personal set often. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com Where you can find: Superior Audio, The Absolute Sound, Review Magazine, The $ensible Sound, The Audiophile Voice... and MUCH more! wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 4, 11:54 pm, "darrelldklein" wrote: The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has developed an overtone-rattle. (snip) Don here, I had the identical problem, although since your kit is approx 30 years older than mine it may very well be something loose. But... My rattle came from the overhead light fixture. Made me nuts until I found it. Good luck. Don O. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Dumb drum (rattle) question
On Mar 7, 4:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 4, 11:54 pm, "darrelldklein" wrote: The top (smallest) tom on my 1972 Ludwig studio kit (inherited) has developed an overtone-rattle. (snip) Don here, I had the identical problem, although since your kit is approx 30 years older than mine it may very well be something loose. But... My rattle came from the overhead light fixture. Made me nuts until I found it. Good luck. Don O. Thanks to you and everyone else who helped. I am taking the kit apart this weekend and will post results. |