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YAMAHA PM5D For Broadcast - Opinions
We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio.
Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight into this specific application. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. Thanks Nick |
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In article .com,
"nmm" wrote: We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio. Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight into this specific application. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) The PM5D is very flexible console, and perhaps a bit more horsepower than you really need for the application. Just curious as to what the total input and output counts are, and how many faders do you think you need a hand on? Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. I don't know if there is anything else in the digital realm, in that price range, but you may be able to accomplish what you need for a lot less money with a DM2000. |
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nmm wrote:
We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio. Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight into this specific application. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. Seems like you've got about a DM1000's worth of inputs, there. I must be mssing something, right? |
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Mike Rivers wrote: In article .com writes: We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) A live sound console makes a certain degree of sense for that applicaiton since you're feeding a bunch of stereo sorces which might have their own variations on a basic mix. Of course it has far more capability than your needs require, but if you have room and budget for it, it might work. Have you looked at the Mackie TT24? We need a console with a really good "preamp" stage, as the show is mostly carried on Radio. Right now the audio chain is weak ie: Mackie 32x 8 and a Mackie 1604. It seems they have the budget to spend on a console the likes of the "PM5D". Others im considering ( but haven't priced yet ) would be the Innovason SY-48 , and the Sony DMX-R100 ( which is a lot cheaper than the PM5D ) . I'm not sure what else comes in around $50K. When i got involved with this project they already had the PM5D on the drawings, now they want some more opinions. |
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Arny Krueger wrote: nmm wrote: We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio. Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight into this specific application. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. Seems like you've got about a DM1000's worth of inputs, there. I must be mssing something, right? Expansion. This is the initial jump into a "real studio" they don't wantg to run out of inputs in the next 5 years. There is also a lot of Mix-Minus configurations that have to go on with three Telos, Insert Studios ( Sometimes multiple Insert Studios ) and perhaps if the get this Media Server working ( Errrr ) it will be able to stream multiple outputs ( the plan is to get away from tape based news ) . The DM1000 might do it for now, but how much room for expansion would that leave us? |
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My feeling, having used the smaller Yamaha consoles, is that the ability to
jump between scene presets could be a huge advantage in a broadcast environment, but that the clumsy routing is a definite disadvantage. It might be worth renting an 02r for the day and seeing how it feels, although the control layout on the PM5D is supposed to be a lot better. My feeling is that given your description you should look at the Cadac S-series consoles. The layout is good, there is no central computer core to be a single failure point, they sound great and feel good. And, because they are conventional analogue architecture, they are extremely expandable. If you decide you want more channels, you just fill out the frame until you have as many as you want. If your frame is too small, you trade it in for a bigger one and keep the individual channel strips. But, one of the things that the digital consoles might buy you is the ability to get more input channels into the same amount of physical desk space, and I know console space in the control room is always tight. Did I mention I really like the Cadac? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Mike Rivers wrote: In article .com writes: We need a console with a really good "preamp" stage, as the show is mostly carried on Radio. Right now the audio chain is weak ie: Mackie 32x 8 and a Mackie 1604. What's the problem? I would think that what you have now would be fine for radio. I don't see any direct relation between a good "preamp" stage and radio broadcast. The main voice on the show is one person, that microphone, and it's audio chain is the first line of quality that needs to be improved. This goes out on radio and TV, so what are using now, though it works, doesn't have enough fidelity for what soem people who want to syndicate the show demand. It seems they have the budget to spend on a console the likes of the "PM5D". Others im considering ( but haven't priced yet ) would be the Innovason SY-48 , and the Sony DMX-R100 ( which is a lot cheaper than the PM5D ) . Sounds like they might have more money than brains. What does the station's chief engineer think? (or is that you?) Yeah that's me. I'd go with the Innovason, I'm going to push for that. I've worked the Yamaha PM4000 and PM3800 a few times, ( the guys from Yamaha keep comparing the PM5D to the PM4000 ) and always liked Soundcrafts better. I was at an AES demo of the PM1D, the Digico D5, and the Innovason SY48, and the SY48 was the only one that really impressed me. Someone floated the idea of a Wheatstone around with the management here, but it was too expensive. I'd figure a Euphonix would also be out of our reach, and from trucks i've worked on with Euphonix consoles, the A1 follows that truck, because the boards are counter-intuative. |
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Scott Dorsey wrote: My feeling, having used the smaller Yamaha consoles, is that the ability to jump between scene presets could be a huge advantage in a broadcast environment, but that the clumsy routing is a definite disadvantage. It might be worth renting an 02r for the day and seeing how it feels, although the control layout on the PM5D is supposed to be a lot better. My feeling is that given your description you should look at the Cadac S-series consoles. The layout is good, there is no central computer core to be a single failure point, they sound great and feel good. And, because they are conventional analogue architecture, they are extremely expandable. If you decide you want more channels, you just fill out the frame until you have as many as you want. If your frame is too small, you trade it in for a bigger one and keep the individual channel strips. But, one of the things that the digital consoles might buy you is the ability to get more input channels into the same amount of physical desk space, and I know console space in the control room is always tight. Did I mention I really like the Cadac? Do you have a sales - dealer link or sales, or any such info for the CADEC? thanks Nick |
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nmm wrote:
Kludge wrote: Did I mention I really like the Cadac? Do you have a sales - dealer link or sales, or any such info for the CADEC? Masque Sound in NYC is probably the primary US dealer, but they have a web site at www.cadac-sound.com. For the most part they are trying to sell the big touring consoles so they don't stock too many of the smaller broadcast consoles in the US. One of the Latin American broadcast networks has one of them in their truck and it's a real delight at music festivals. Oh yes, and they'll be showing the things (including the baby S-type) at the AES show this fall, if you can wait that long to touch one. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#13
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"nmm" wrote:
Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. I don't know anything about the PM5D, but you owe it to yourself to look at Euphonix before you commit to anything. Their "Air" board was the first console that ever made me think digital might actually be practical for live TV. That particular unit is out of the stated price range, but by now they may have something else that'll fit. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
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nmm wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: nmm wrote: We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio. Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight into this specific application. Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor, Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of insert studio feeds ) Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price range, that could get the job done. Seems like you've got about a DM1000's worth of inputs, there. I must be mssing something, right? Expansion. This is the initial jump into a "real studio" they don't wantg to run out of inputs in the next 5 years. Digital consoles are extremely expandible. The DM1000 is readily expladible to 48 inputs. There is also a lot of Mix-Minus configurations that have to go on with three Telos, Insert Studios ( Sometimes multiple Insert Studios ) and perhaps if the get this Media Server working ( Errrr ) it will be able to stream multiple outputs ( the plan is to get away from tape based news ) . The DM1000 might do it for now, but how much room for expansion would that leave us? Lots. |
#15
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Snip My feeling is that given your description you should look at the Cadac S-series consoles. The layout is good, there is no central computer core to be a single failure point, they sound great and feel good. And, because they are conventional analogue architecture, they are extremely expandable. If you decide you want more channels, you just fill out the frame until you have as many as you want. If your frame is too small, you trade it in for a bigger one and keep the individual channel strips. Unless you are dead set on digital, I would second this... I was going to suggest CADAC but Scott beat me to it. The quality is second to none and I have never heard anyone complain about their service. There is of course another route which may be appropriate, (depends on what you are doing), which would be to look at a matrix from someone like SAS and a control surface. This has the advantage that it is easy to automate and seems to be the way a lot of radio operations are moving. Just another possibility.... But, one of the things that the digital consoles might buy you is the ability to get more input channels into the same amount of physical desk space, and I know console space in the control room is always tight. There is that, but I would also comment that the PM-5D does not look to be that easy to lock down (as in protect against the muppets of this world), and I could easily see the "I pushed something (but I don't know what) and now we are dead in the water.." conversation becoming boring fast! This is not an issue if there is a small defined crew who are the ONLY people to touch the console, but if visiting engineers will be using it something where at least all the routing is on display might be good. This is one area where the control surface and external router tends to be a big win. Did I mention I really like the Cadac? Amen to that! I do wonder about the problem as stated however, sure the Mackie is not exactly a great desk, but I cannot help wondering if spending some cash on room acoustics, an outboard preamp for the money channel and a better mic may be a better investment (The room and the mic probably first). If all that has been done, then look to the desk, especially if you make much use of the EQ which I loathe on those boards. Regards, Dan. |
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