Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
RichD RichD is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default earbuds

I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Bill Graham Bill Graham is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default earbuds

RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?


You have to get somebody with ears that suck, to wear the earbuds that
suck..... You might try reading the reviews to find a set that is generally
well liked, but otherwise, you just have to risk the hundred bucks and take
a chance on quality vs. scam.... Good luck!

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
[email protected][_2_] miso@sushi.com[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Aug 12, 9:18*pm, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


http://www.etymotic.com/
Good product...stupid name. Biggest problem is losing them. Second
biggest problem is ear wax. They have replaceable filters, just don't
lose the kit you get when you buy them. Third biggest problem: they
fit tight in your ear canal. There is always a potential to damage
your ear due to the good fit. You can generate very high SPL levels.
Just use common sense.

Etymotic used to be really expensive, but I think the patent expired.
Lots of clones now. I really wouldn't advise getting the top of the
line. They are cheaper from 3rd party vendors than the factory
website.

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Arny Krueger[_4_] Arny Krueger[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 854
Default earbuds


"RichD" wrote in message
...

I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.


I suspect you are talking about "ear buds" which sit inside the pinnae, but
do not have tips that insert into the ear canal.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear.


Those aren't ear buds, those are earphones, or more technically IEMs for
in-ear-monitors.

They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set, over $100?!?


Shure offers about 5 different kinds, and the top of the line run close to
$600. And, they are not alone. I suspect there are some really golden IEM's
that run up to $1 large, and beyond.

For something so small, how can there be such a range?


For you today I have the usual answers: quality and hype.

Is there really such quality difference?


Yes and no. Surprisingly, IEMs are a bit like speakers in that in all honest
truth, we don't know what quality *really* means.

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare.


It is worse than that - local stores as a rule don't even cary the really
good ones. And, they are personal items like toothbrushes. After you stuck
them into your ears I don't want to buy them.

Even if there were, differences in environment, time of day, etc. swamp
perceptual
discernment.


Yes and no.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?


The standard tools include a measurement microphone (small diameter, omni,
very flat and wide response) and an acoustical coupler.

Here's an example, for headphones:

http://www.bksv.com/products/transdu...lers/4157.aspx


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Jan Panteltje Jan Panteltje is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default earbuds

On a sunny day (Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened RichD
wrote in
:

I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


I bought some Sennheiser for maybe it was 10 Euro.
The sound quailty is orders of magnitide better than the other crap.
Also they do not fall out, to the point where they can rip the cable.
The other never lasted longer than a few month, these I have had for more
than a year.
They are my reference when I do audio editing.



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Globemaker Globemaker is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default earbuds

On Aug 13, 12:18*am, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,417
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT), Globemaker
wrote:

On Aug 13, 12:18*am, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.

d
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
SuspendedInGaffa SuspendedInGaffa is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT), RichD
wrote:

I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?


Actually,Shure had a set for $500 at one time.

What they are, from an engineering standpoint, is a closed cell audio
environment, which wouldn't be much different than the engineering behind
the old, "acoustic suspension" speaker systems, where your inner ear is
the "speaker box" side. The transducers can blow out your eardrum if
they are made (read engineered) incorrectly. They have to be limited,
but the limitation cannot cause any dampening either.

Of course, you can blow your own ears out by cranking some amp though
them, but most headphone amps (battery operated) are limited.

Any of the good speaker makers would probably be a good choice.
Klipsch, Shure. I wouldn't pay for any hyped company like Monster
or those rapper 'products'. They only prove that 'sucker born every
minute' thing.

Mine cost $12 (JVC), and they sound great! I am sure something 2 or 3
times that would certainly sound better, I just do not have the cash for
something I do not use that often right now.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Jamie[_2_] Jamie[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default earbuds

RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

Epoxy works well.

Jamie


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
SuspendedInGaffa SuspendedInGaffa is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:33:05 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:

RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

Epoxy works well.

Jamie


You would have to make an artificial ear canal and place the
microphonic transducer at the 'eardrum'end of it, and the earbud
transducer at the test point end.

With that keeping each test on the same set-up, the results should all
track, even if the numbers are off or 'uncalibrated'.to a specific
measure. Until you calibrate it (the input to the mic), of course.

That would be dealing with the position and angle of the mic transducer
at the 'eardrum' end of the channel.


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
SuspendedInGaffa SuspendedInGaffa is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:12:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 13:24:42 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT), Globemaker
wrote:

On Aug 13, 12:18*am, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.

"Never put anything into your ear, OTHER THAN your elbow." That said, I do
wear ear buds (with over-the-ear hooks) and a MP3 player when I mow the lawn.



Several million men and women in this nation alone, wear ear protection
'buds' every day, and I am quite sure millions more around the world.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
[email protected] krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 09:24:33 -0700, SuspendedInGaffa
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:12:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 13:24:42 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT), Globemaker
wrote:

On Aug 13, 12:18*am, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.

A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.

"Never put anything into your ear, OTHER THAN your elbow." That said, I do
wear ear buds (with over-the-ear hooks) and a MP3 player when I mow the lawn.



Several million men and women in this nation alone, wear ear protection
'buds' every day, and I am quite sure millions more around the world.


Several million men and women in this nation alone, drink or smoke cigarettes,
every day, and I am quite sure (there are) millions more around the world.

Just because it's done by "several million men and women" doesn't make it a
smart thing to do.
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
SuspendedInGaffa SuspendedInGaffa is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:47:45 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 09:24:33 -0700, SuspendedInGaffa
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:12:00 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 13:24:42 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT), Globemaker
wrote:

On Aug 13, 12:18*am, RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. *It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. *They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? *For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. *Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.

A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.

"Never put anything into your ear, OTHER THAN your elbow." That said, I do
wear ear buds (with over-the-ear hooks) and a MP3 player when I mow the lawn.



Several million men and women in this nation alone, wear ear protection
'buds' every day, and I am quite sure millions more around the world.


Several million men and women in this nation alone, drink or smoke cigarettes,
every day, and I am quite sure (there are) millions more around the world.

Just because it's done by "several million men and women" doesn't make it a
smart thing to do.


With the distinct difference being that the devices they are putting in
their ears are 100% OSHA approved, and cigarettes hardly qualify for any
"seal" of approval from any agency other than Satan's minions, and the
Worldwide Bona Fide Causes of Cancer Registry.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Howard Eisenhauer Howard Eisenhauer is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default earbuds

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT), RichD
wrote:

I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?
They suck.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!? For something so small, how can there
be such a range? Is there really such quality difference?

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

Ya wanna be stylish or ya wanna be practical?

http://oldheadphones.com/crystal/phones/phones.htm

H.


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default earbuds

RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?


Kids these days...

They suck.


Yep. The cheap ones tend to sound bad, too.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!?


They have sets over $400.

For something so small, how can there
be such a range?


It's a micro machined (or cast or molded) thing.
It's a transducer.

Is there really such quality difference?



Yeah, there apparently is. They are, as you note, a total
pig in a poke.

I would tend to resort to brand name choice, mainly Shure,
because Shure get used as in-ears by people who perform with
them for a living. We're down to what amounts to folklore,
since you can't try them on.

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


I am not Shure I'd estimate my ear canal geometry, use
a model of that to connect them to a measurement mic or
a standalone, Panasonic omni electret element, and run
an impulse ( and maybe white noise and maybe swept sine
tones ) through 'em. That's got to be fraught with
error - my tympani is not much like the back of an
electret element.

What would be interesting ( and might even be worth $20
or so ) would be a subscription service where people do
empirical reviews of these items. Problem is: how do
you establish credibility? Do people even care? If I
were considering such a purchase, and I could hedge 10:1
a purchase error, I'd probably do it.

I don't see one, so I figure there's a good reason
for the lack of them.

--
Les Cargill
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

On 08/13/2011 07:44 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?


Kids these days...

They suck.


Yep. The cheap ones tend to sound bad, too.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!?


They have sets over $400.

For something so small, how can there
be such a range?


It's a micro machined (or cast or molded) thing.
It's a transducer.

Is there really such quality difference?



Yeah, there apparently is. They are, as you note, a total
pig in a poke.

I would tend to resort to brand name choice, mainly Shure,
because Shure get used as in-ears by people who perform with
them for a living. We're down to what amounts to folklore,
since you can't try them on.

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


I am not Shure I'd estimate my ear canal geometry, use
a model of that to connect them to a measurement mic or
a standalone, Panasonic omni electret element, and run
an impulse ( and maybe white noise and maybe swept sine
tones ) through 'em. That's got to be fraught with
error - my tympani is not much like the back of an
electret element.

What would be interesting ( and might even be worth $20
or so ) would be a subscription service where people do
empirical reviews of these items. Problem is: how do
you establish credibility? Do people even care? If I
were considering such a purchase, and I could hedge 10:1
a purchase error, I'd probably do it.

I don't see one, so I figure there's a good reason
for the lack of them.

--
Les Cargill


One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default earbuds

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 08/13/2011 07:44 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?


Kids these days...

They suck.


Yep. The cheap ones tend to sound bad, too.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!?


They have sets over $400.

For something so small, how can there
be such a range?


It's a micro machined (or cast or molded) thing.
It's a transducer.

Is there really such quality difference?



Yeah, there apparently is. They are, as you note, a total
pig in a poke.

I would tend to resort to brand name choice, mainly Shure,
because Shure get used as in-ears by people who perform with
them for a living. We're down to what amounts to folklore,
since you can't try them on.

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich


I am not Shure I'd estimate my ear canal geometry, use
a model of that to connect them to a measurement mic or
a standalone, Panasonic omni electret element, and run
an impulse ( and maybe white noise and maybe swept sine
tones ) through 'em. That's got to be fraught with
error - my tympani is not much like the back of an
electret element.

What would be interesting ( and might even be worth $20
or so ) would be a subscription service where people do
empirical reviews of these items. Problem is: how do
you establish credibility? Do people even care? If I
were considering such a purchase, and I could hedge 10:1
a purchase error, I'd probably do it.

I don't see one, so I figure there's a good reason
for the lack of them.

--
Les Cargill


One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.


I never stick anything in my ear smaller than my elbow. There's
obviously the Etymotic thingies, but they cost too much.

A piece of surgical tubing seems close enough. It'd
be like making measurements at the end of an organ pipe, so it
all sounds eminently futile

I've been using Koss PRO35A on-the-ears for more than ten
years now. Good known quantity. And I don't want to
play music loud enough to justify earplugs any more.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Les Cargill
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

On 08/13/2011 08:01 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 08/13/2011 07:44 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?

Kids these days...

They suck.


Yep. The cheap ones tend to sound bad, too.

So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!?

They have sets over $400.

For something so small, how can there
be such a range?

It's a micro machined (or cast or molded) thing.
It's a transducer.

Is there really such quality difference?



Yeah, there apparently is. They are, as you note, a total
pig in a poke.

I would tend to resort to brand name choice, mainly Shure,
because Shure get used as in-ears by people who perform with
them for a living. We're down to what amounts to folklore,
since you can't try them on.

They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.

How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?

--
Rich

I am not Shure I'd estimate my ear canal geometry, use
a model of that to connect them to a measurement mic or
a standalone, Panasonic omni electret element, and run
an impulse ( and maybe white noise and maybe swept sine
tones ) through 'em. That's got to be fraught with
error - my tympani is not much like the back of an
electret element.

What would be interesting ( and might even be worth $20
or so ) would be a subscription service where people do
empirical reviews of these items. Problem is: how do
you establish credibility? Do people even care? If I
were considering such a purchase, and I could hedge 10:1
a purchase error, I'd probably do it.

I don't see one, so I figure there's a good reason
for the lack of them.

--
Les Cargill


One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.


I never stick anything in my ear smaller than my elbow. There's
obviously the Etymotic thingies, but they cost too much.

A piece of surgical tubing seems close enough. It'd
be like making measurements at the end of an organ pipe, so it
all sounds eminently futile

I've been using Koss PRO35A on-the-ears for more than ten
years now. Good known quantity. And I don't want to
play music loud enough to justify earplugs any more.


It isn't _my_ music that justifies the earplugs. Properly fitted
earplug headphones are far safer than ordinary ear buds in noisy
environments such as airplanes (I just got to gold frequent-flyer
status, so I care about that. If business continues to be good, I may
make platinum this year.)

You have to crank up the volume so high to get any S/N ratio that you
can easily damage your hearing. Give me the occasional case of diver's
ear any day.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Spehro Pefhany Spehro Pefhany is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:23:10 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


It isn't _my_ music that justifies the earplugs. Properly fitted
earplug headphones are far safer than ordinary ear buds in noisy
environments such as airplanes (I just got to gold frequent-flyer
status, so I care about that. If business continues to be good, I may
make platinum this year.)

You have to crank up the volume so high to get any S/N ratio that you
can easily damage your hearing. Give me the occasional case of diver's
ear any day.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


Bose noise-cancelling headphones. Well worth the cost if you spend
more than 20 hours a year in aircraft.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

On 08/13/2011 09:19 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:23:10 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


It isn't _my_ music that justifies the earplugs. Properly fitted
earplug headphones are far safer than ordinary ear buds in noisy
environments such as airplanes (I just got to gold frequent-flyer
status, so I care about that. If business continues to be good, I may
make platinum this year.)

You have to crank up the volume so high to get any S/N ratio that you
can easily damage your hearing. Give me the occasional case of diver's
ear any day.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


Bose noise-cancelling headphones. Well worth the cost if you spend
more than 20 hours a year in aircraft.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany



Are they the around-the-ear or the mash-the-ear-flat kind? I have some
Panasonic ones that work fine but squash my ears hard enough that they
hurt after an hour or so.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Spehro Pefhany Spehro Pefhany is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:32:12 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 08/13/2011 09:19 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:23:10 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


It isn't _my_ music that justifies the earplugs. Properly fitted
earplug headphones are far safer than ordinary ear buds in noisy
environments such as airplanes (I just got to gold frequent-flyer
status, so I care about that. If business continues to be good, I may
make platinum this year.)

You have to crank up the volume so high to get any S/N ratio that you
can easily damage your hearing. Give me the occasional case of diver's
ear any day.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


Bose noise-cancelling headphones. Well worth the cost if you spend
more than 20 hours a year in aircraft.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany



Are they the around-the-ear or the mash-the-ear-flat kind? I have some
Panasonic ones that work fine but squash my ears hard enough that they
hurt after an hour or so.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


They don't go around your ear... they have very soft cushions that go
against your ears. And they don't have the background hisssssss that
I've heard with some of the (much) cheaper Japanese ones.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

On 08/13/2011 09:43 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:32:12 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 08/13/2011 09:19 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:23:10 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


It isn't _my_ music that justifies the earplugs. Properly fitted
earplug headphones are far safer than ordinary ear buds in noisy
environments such as airplanes (I just got to gold frequent-flyer
status, so I care about that. If business continues to be good, I may
make platinum this year.)

You have to crank up the volume so high to get any S/N ratio that you
can easily damage your hearing. Give me the occasional case of diver's
ear any day.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Bose noise-cancelling headphones. Well worth the cost if you spend
more than 20 hours a year in aircraft.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany



Are they the around-the-ear or the mash-the-ear-flat kind? I have some
Panasonic ones that work fine but squash my ears hard enough that they
hurt after an hour or so.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


They don't go around your ear... they have very soft cushions that go
against your ears. And they don't have the background hisssssss that
I've heard with some of the (much) cheaper Japanese ones.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Thanks. I might try a pair, but all the ear-squashing ones I've worn
get uncomfortable pretty fast on a coast-to-coast flight. It isn't that
they aren't soft enough, it's just that they have to grip fairly hard
just to stay on.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Spehro Pefhany Spehro Pefhany is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:51:02 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


Thanks. I might try a pair, but all the ear-squashing ones I've worn
get uncomfortable pretty fast on a coast-to-coast flight. It isn't that
they aren't soft enough, it's just that they have to grip fairly hard
just to stay on.

Cheers


I typically leave them on for most of a 15+-hour flight so you should
be able to handle them for four or five hours. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

On 08/13/2011 09:55 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:51:02 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


Thanks. I might try a pair, but all the ear-squashing ones I've worn
get uncomfortable pretty fast on a coast-to-coast flight. It isn't that
they aren't soft enough, it's just that they have to grip fairly hard
just to stay on.

Cheers


I typically leave them on for most of a 15+-hour flight so you should
be able to handle them for four or five hours. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Just because you have ears of steel is no reason to go round being all
superior about it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default earbuds


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.


And yet people with hearing aids wear them every day without a problem!
I can't recall a doctor saying they should never be worn either. Of course
it does help if you clean them occasionly, but I am willing to bet the
people who use them everyday don't clean them everyday. And don't get ear
infections every week either.

Trevor.


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,417
Default earbuds

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:29:42 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.


And yet people with hearing aids wear them every day without a problem!
I can't recall a doctor saying they should never be worn either. Of course
it does help if you clean them occasionly, but I am willing to bet the
people who use them everyday don't clean them everyday. And don't get ear
infections every week either.

Trevor.


I use my Etymotic buds frequently, and I wash the ear seals every
time. I couldn't imagine doing otherwise. Infection is unlikely as I
don't let other people use them, but it would give me the creeps to
put them in dirty.

The doctor was, of course, talking about Q-tips when he made his elbow
remark. For a normal, healthy person the ears are self-cleaning and
need no extra prodding, which is more likely to push the accumulated
wax up against the ear drum than remove it.

d
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default earbuds


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
The doctor was, of course, talking about Q-tips when he made his elbow
remark.


A point that seems to have been lost in the retelling.

For a normal, healthy person the ears are self-cleaning and
need no extra prodding, which is more likely to push the accumulated
wax up against the ear drum than remove it.


Yeah, I could never see much point in Q-tips for the ears. They do have
other uses IME.

Trevor.


  #29   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,417
Default earbuds

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:10:23 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
The doctor was, of course, talking about Q-tips when he made his elbow
remark.


A point that seems to have been lost in the retelling.


Change of context is all part of the fun of language.

For a normal, healthy person the ears are self-cleaning and
need no extra prodding, which is more likely to push the accumulated
wax up against the ear drum than remove it.


Yeah, I could never see much point in Q-tips for the ears. They do have
other uses IME.


Plenty of other uses, none of which involve poking them into body
orifices. They are designed entirely wrongly for such purposes.

d
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Spehro Pefhany Spehro Pefhany is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default earbuds

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 22:16:21 -0400, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:


Just because you have ears of steel is no reason to go round being all
superior about it.


;-)

Just went onto their website to order a replacement cord ($15
shipped), and I notice the offer an around-the-ears version as well:

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/...ones/index.jsp



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Bill Graham Bill Graham is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default earbuds

Trevor wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.


And yet people with hearing aids wear them every day without a
problem! I can't recall a doctor saying they should never be worn either.
Of
course it does help if you clean them occasionly, but I am willing to
bet the people who use them everyday don't clean them everyday. And
don't get ear infections every week either.

Trevor.


....and there is no way to "clean them" with your elbow. You have to get that
ear wax out with a q-tip or pickup key or something a lot smaller than an
elbow.......
Another problem with ear buds is they don't breathe, so they get hot....
They block out air circulation that allows the heat to disperse. this is why
I prefer the small, non noise blocking earphones. But as has ben pointed out
above, these don't block out noise. So, you need to find something that
blocks out noise, but allows air to circulate inside the ear, and I don't
know anything that can do both of these two things that's small enough to
wear.

  #32   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default earbuds


"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...
Another problem with ear buds is they don't breathe, so they get hot....
They block out air circulation that allows the heat to disperse. this is
why I prefer the small, non noise blocking earphones. But as has ben
pointed out above, these don't block out noise. So, you need to find
something that blocks out noise, but allows air to circulate inside the
ear, and I don't know anything that can do both of these two things that's
small enough to wear.


Many hearing aids don't allow the ear to breathe (BTE with ear moulds in
particular), and yet people manage to wear them all day. While it may not be
ideal, especially on hot days, I don't know of any medical risk, or surely
they would not be sold by the million? Presumably it's a case of getting
used to it.

Trevor.


  #33   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
[email protected][_2_] miso@sushi.com[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

On Aug 13, 4:47*pm, Phil Hobbs
wrote:
On 08/13/2011 07:44 PM, Les Cargill wrote:









RichD wrote:
I have the standard earpod set, which came with my
armband MP3 player. It pops out every 2 minutes.
How did these things become the standard design?


Kids these days...


They suck.


Yep. The cheap ones tend to sound bad, too.


So now i'm looking for the earbud style, i.e. inside the
ear. They range from $8 to $40, and Shure offers a set,
over $100?!?


They have sets over $400.


For something so small, how can there
be such a range?


It's a micro machined (or cast or molded) thing.
It's a transducer.


Is there really such quality difference?


Yeah, there apparently is. They are, as you note, a total
pig in a poke.


I would tend to resort to brand name choice, mainly Shure,
because Shure get used as in-ears by people who perform with
them for a living. We're down to what amounts to folklore,
since you can't try them on.


They are all sealed in blister packs, there's no chance
to compare. Even if there were, differences in
environment, time of day, etc. swamp perceptual
discernment.


How would you go about testing these things, in the lab?


--
Rich


I am not Shure I'd estimate my ear canal geometry, use
a model of that to connect them to a measurement mic or
a standalone, Panasonic omni electret element, and run
an impulse ( and maybe white noise and maybe swept sine
tones ) through 'em. That's got to be fraught with
error - my tympani is not much like the back of an
electret element.


What would be interesting ( and might even be worth $20
or so ) would be a subscription service where people do
empirical reviews of these items. Problem is: how do
you establish credibility? Do people even care? If I
were considering such a purchase, and I could hedge 10:1
a purchase error, I'd probably do it.


I don't see one, so I figure there's a good reason
for the lack of them.


--
Les Cargill


One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net


http://www.etymotic.com/customfit/index.html
Etymotic will do custom fits too. I find their off the shelf stuff is
fine, but note the noise isolation can be too good. I certainly don't
recommend walking around the city with 40db of attenuation. They are
great for air travel.
  #34   Report Post  
jersey123 jersey123 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 15
Default

Browns coach Pat Shurmur revealed starting wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi has an injured bone in his left leg. Massaquoi, who wore Kevin Kolb Cardinals Jersey and showed up at training camp with a cast on his leg. He has not yet practiced and spent the workouts on an exercise bike and watching from the sideline. Shurmur did not divulge any details about Massaquoi’s injury until Monday, when he confirmed it was a bone problem. The Browns have not said how long they expect Massaquoi, who had 36 receptions as a rookie, to be out. You can log on our Online Kevin Kolb Cardinals Jersey and select our best quality Kevin Kolb Cardinals Jersey if you are true fans of Cleveland Browns.
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Arny Krueger[_4_] Arny Krueger[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 854
Default earbuds

wrote in message
...

Just because it's done by "several million men and women" doesn't make it
a
smart thing to do.


Just because you have a seriouis and self-destructive phobia about using
generally recognized and accepted safety appliances does't make you any kind
of a reliable authority.




  #36   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Arny Krueger[_4_] Arny Krueger[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 854
Default earbuds


"Trevor" wrote in message
u...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Ear infections come standard, at a cost of intense pain. Never put
anything in your ears.


A doctor got it right. Never put anything smaller than your elbow in
your ear.


And yet people with hearing aids wear them every day without a problem!


That's because they use ordinary sanitary practices like keeping them and
their ears rasonably clean.

Let's face it, there is a well-known phobia that a tiny minority have about
putting things like this in the ear. It's probably related to OCD.



  #37   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Winston[_2_] Winston[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

Phil Hobbs wrote:

(...)

One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.


One would want to cast around a hollow plastic tube
to vent air back into the canal in order to avoid
an ER visit to remove the finished casting...

--Winston

  #38   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Phil Hobbs[_2_] Phil Hobbs[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default earbuds

Winston wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

(...)

One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that myself.


One would want to cast around a hollow plastic tube
to vent air back into the canal in order to avoid
an ER visit to remove the finished casting...

--Winston


I wasn't suggesting pushing it all the way down to the eardrum, silly.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
[email protected] krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default earbuds

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:20:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

Just because it's done by "several million men and women" doesn't make it
a
smart thing to do.


Just because you have a seriouis and self-destructive phobia about using
generally recognized and accepted safety appliances does't make you any kind
of a reliable authority.


You're even more clueless than DimBulb. Good job!
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.design,rec.audio.tech,alt.audio.equipment
Winston[_2_] Winston[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default earbuds

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Winston wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

(...)

One approach would be to make a casting of the outer part of your ear
canal with something like ShapeLok. I've been meaning to try that
myself.


One would want to cast around a hollow plastic tube
to vent air back into the canal in order to avoid
an ER visit to remove the finished casting...

--Winston


I wasn't suggesting pushing it all the way down to the eardrum, silly.


I didn't figure you were.
Casting a piston to the inside of the ear
canal and then removing it is gonna cause
a significant vacuum. Sounds painful, at least.
At worst, a burst eardrum and inner ear
infection? Ewww!

--Silly Winston
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Earbuds? [email protected] Pro Audio 8 March 19th 08 09:58 PM
Using Consumer Earbuds mcp6453 Pro Audio 3 October 18th 07 06:10 PM
Earbuds break [email protected] Tech 0 January 28th 07 05:31 AM
Wireless earbuds [email protected] Audio Opinions 4 September 8th 06 07:05 AM
looking for good earbuds John b General 0 March 16th 04 12:10 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:18 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"