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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Default This Group is sadly borring....

Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

IASCA's dead. Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and
time-alignment features on their decks. People ONLY seem to care about
integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their
substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years)
factory systems. GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new
car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful
tone).

Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert
hall quality sound? Can you have both? I don't see why not. It can be
done.

There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group. I
remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, Ian
Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate
goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and
endlessly discussed and debated.

What's happened? I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people
today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that
factory systems have improved dramatically. Add to that the fact that
people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to
improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to be
found in the music. I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets",
you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible
speakers.

Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my car.
I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system I
have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid
90's). Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do
today's amplifiers and head-units. But it's the speakers of today that
REALLY impress me. The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5"
midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for over
a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150
watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). I'm
sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax
figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers.

The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know where
to look. I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system
(for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater).

But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have ALWAYS
thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. I mean, any rich
guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm, Goldmund,
etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. But the sonic
challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique.
That's what makes this hobby great. That is what I fell in love with many
years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and
sometimes surpassed) my home system. It is easy to create great sound in a
large, square room. The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped
environment full of sonic challanges.

Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death
of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde


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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Default This Group is sadly borring....

Ian Bjorhovde didn't write any of that, I just accidentily pasted his name
there. Sorry Ian.


MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde



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Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
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Posts: 143
Default This Group is sadly borring....

Well, since you're bored... }:-)

I'll have you know that some of us who insist upon using mp3 players
do still understand that the quality isn't the best - but 128kbps?! I
haven't ripped or downloaded anything with that low of a quality since
college, man!

The lowest bit-rate I use on my Creative Labs Zen V Plus is 256kbps -
and that's only because it's old music that I've been too lazy to re-
rip or re-purchase. The iPod, in general, can kiss my ass. I have an
8GB solid-state drive, an FM tuner, a microphone, line-in
capabilities, a 12-band equalizer, and an OS that doesn't drain the
battery when the unit is powered off for the exact same price as an
8GB iPod.

The only thing that keeps me from building and integrating a full-on
vehicular PC with absolutely top-notch (aftermarket) deck and the best
speakers available is the fact that I have no income to spare. So,
what I've done is taken a look at the options available to me with the
means I have, and gone forth - not looking back or scrimping and
saving for years until I can afford the best equipment.

Eventually, I'll be able to afford to go out and buy a deck like the
one I've been drooling over for months, now:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDAV...44.html?tp=448

Until then, I'm fairly happy with what I have: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2462751

To bring this around for you, I find that until I can simply go and
buy what I want:
I'm building better boxes, to better the sound of the sub I have.
I'm learning the the output voltage of a device is it's defining
quality through my system.
I'm thinking of small quirky things I can do/build for little expense
(remember my ashtray lcd temp. readout?).
I'm making the best with what I have.

~Mister.Lull

...........well, you said there was nothing going on... :-)

On Apr 1, 9:46*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
Come on guys! *This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

IASCA's dead. *Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and
time-alignment features on their decks. *People ONLY seem to care about
integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their
substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years)
factory systems. *GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new
car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful
tone).

Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert
hall quality sound? *Can you have both? *I don't see why not. *It can be
done.

There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group. *I
remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, *Ian
Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate
goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and
endlessly discussed and debated.

What's happened? *I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people
today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that
factory systems have improved dramatically. *Add to that the fact that
people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to
improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to be
found in the music. *I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets",
you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible
speakers.

Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my car.
I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system I
have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid
90's). *Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do
today's amplifiers and head-units. *But it's the speakers of today that
REALLY impress me. *The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5"
midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for over
a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150
watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). *I'm
sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax
figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers.

The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know where
to look. *I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system
(for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater).

But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have ALWAYS
thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. * I mean, any rich
guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm, Goldmund,
etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. *But the sonic
challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique.
That's what makes this hobby great. *That is what I fell in love with many
years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and
sometimes surpassed) my home system. *It is easy to create great sound in a
large, square room. *The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped
environment full of sonic challanges.

Anyway, I felt like ranting. *Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. *I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death
of IASCA. *I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde


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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default This Group is sadly borring....

Yes, Lull, you sound very much like me. I don't have endless means so I,
like you, make due with what I have and save my money until I can afford
what I consider adequate. Fortunately, quality amplifiers seem to work
forever so there has not been a need to replace my four amps in over 10
years (oh, other than upgrading my sub amp to a Class D model, a wonderful
Alpine MRV-850D I believe is the model number).

You, Lull, are definately the exception to the rule when I view out over the
vast car audio landscape. You, like me, continue to tweak and upgrade by
hook or by crook. Many upgrades are subtle changes to the car's electrical
system, or speaker positioning tweaks that cost nothing. Other upgrades
cost very little as well. And the large upgrades require a degree of
savings because, like you, I'm not going to compromise with crap.

But the point I was making is that there seems very few of us today. And
yes, I know, I CERTAINLY don't use 128kbps in my 8 gig Sansa. Everything is
256kbps, with the exception of a few songs which are 192kbps.

But as you well know, even at 256kbps, certain subtle sonic cues are lost
from the original CD. As you know no doubt know (I'm sure more intricately
than I do) that the nature of compression supresses sounds that may not be
audible, BUT ARE STILL THERE. It is these incredibly delicate sonic cues
that when played through a VERY good system add depth, width, and life to
the music that is lost even when compressed at 256kbps. You cannot argue
this fact. I have heard it many times when comparing CD's vs. music
compressed at even the highest bandwidth.

This goes to an entirely different debate often heard and lamented on those
Audiophile groups, the apparent backward trend society has moved regarding
SQ. There was the steady march forward: 78's, 45's, 33 1/3 record albums
(black round discs made of vinal compounds for anyone younger than 30), then
cassette tapes and ultimately CD's. We then saw future advancements like
HDCD which promissed TRUE multichannel sound (unlike quadrophonic, an
interesting, but ultimately disapointing experiment in the early 70's) and
increased bandwidth! (beyond the 20hz-20kHz we all became conditioned to
with CD's) which held the promise of a recording that captured entirely ALL
the sonic attributes of a live performance (although the human animal, it's
said, cannot hear frequencies above 20kHz, we are certainly aware they are
there and it is one of the subtle clues we use when determining if we are
listening to recorded, or live music as many instuments produce harmonics
well above 20kHz).

Truly exciting stuff, right around the corner!

And then it all ended with the introduction of the MP3 format and the nearly
immediate love Americans had for the format (I admitt it, I love it). Now
we could hold our ENTIRE music collection (THOUSANDS of songs) in the palm
of our hand with an iPod. Convience won out over quality. It's sad, but
true. But hell, I'm not giving up my Sansa and going back to discs, no way.
So am I a hypocrit. I suppose, but what I lament is the apparent lack of
ambition people seem to have now to improving the sound in their car.
256kbps can sound damn good. And hell, maybe those subtle sonic cues simply
can't be heard in a moving car anyway so does it really matter? Perhaps
not.

But again, I just sense a lack of motivation on the part of Americans to
make their cars sound as good as they possibly can.

THAT is what I rant about and why this group has become a ghost-town.

MOSFET


"Mister.Lull" wrote in message
...
Well, since you're bored... }:-)

I'll have you know that some of us who insist upon using mp3 players
do still understand that the quality isn't the best - but 128kbps?! I
haven't ripped or downloaded anything with that low of a quality since
college, man!

The lowest bit-rate I use on my Creative Labs Zen V Plus is 256kbps -
and that's only because it's old music that I've been too lazy to re-
rip or re-purchase. The iPod, in general, can kiss my ass. I have an
8GB solid-state drive, an FM tuner, a microphone, line-in
capabilities, a 12-band equalizer, and an OS that doesn't drain the
battery when the unit is powered off for the exact same price as an
8GB iPod.

The only thing that keeps me from building and integrating a full-on
vehicular PC with absolutely top-notch (aftermarket) deck and the best
speakers available is the fact that I have no income to spare. So,
what I've done is taken a look at the options available to me with the
means I have, and gone forth - not looking back or scrimping and
saving for years until I can afford the best equipment.

Eventually, I'll be able to afford to go out and buy a deck like the
one I've been drooling over for months, now:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDAV...44.html?tp=448

Until then, I'm fairly happy with what I have:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2462751

To bring this around for you, I find that until I can simply go and
buy what I want:
I'm building better boxes, to better the sound of the sub I have.
I'm learning the the output voltage of a device is it's defining
quality through my system.
I'm thinking of small quirky things I can do/build for little expense
(remember my ashtray lcd temp. readout?).
I'm making the best with what I have.

~Mister.Lull

...........well, you said there was nothing going on... :-)

On Apr 1, 9:46 pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

IASCA's dead. Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and
time-alignment features on their decks. People ONLY seem to care about
integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their
substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years)
factory systems. GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new
car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful
tone).

Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert
hall quality sound? Can you have both? I don't see why not. It can be
done.

There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group.
I
remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, Ian
Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate
goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and
endlessly discussed and debated.

What's happened? I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people
today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that
factory systems have improved dramatically. Add to that the fact that
people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to
improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to
be
found in the music. I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets",
you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible
speakers.

Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my
car.
I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system
I
have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid
90's). Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do
today's amplifiers and head-units. But it's the speakers of today that
REALLY impress me. The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5"
midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for
over
a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150
watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). I'm
sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax
figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers.

The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know
where
to look. I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system
(for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater).

But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have
ALWAYS
thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. I mean, any rich
guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm,
Goldmund,
etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. But the
sonic
challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique.
That's what makes this hobby great. That is what I fell in love with many
years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and
sometimes surpassed) my home system. It is easy to create great sound in a
large, square room. The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped
environment full of sonic challanges.

Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death
of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde



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Default NICE install!!

Lull, I know I've seen it before and said it before, but I'll say it again,
beautiful installation job on your Jetta.

As I've learned (sometimes the hard way after I started doing all my own
installation 10 years ago) that a system is only as good as it's
installation. This is a lesson almost EVERYONE learns eventually (like I
said sometimes the hard way) when they do their own install jobs.

The naive often think that the gear they use and the quality of sound has
little to do with the quality of their installation. But I have learned
that SQ ABSOLUTELY relates directly to the quality of your installation for
SOOOOOOO many reasons.

Anyway, nice job. I bet it sounds outstanding.

MOSFET




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Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
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Default NICE install!!

You're too kind, sir.

I've come a long way from back in the day when I first started by
putting house speakers in the trunk of my '83 Ford Fairmont and being
happy with the sound...

One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design,
build, and install an enclosure for you!

~Mister.Lull

On Apr 2, 10:53*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
Lull, I know I've seen it before and said it before, but I'll say it again,
beautiful installation job on your Jetta.

As I've learned (sometimes the hard way after I started doing all my own
installation 10 years ago) that a system is only as good as it's
installation. *This is a lesson almost EVERYONE learns eventually (like I
said sometimes the hard way) when they do their own install jobs.

The naive often think that the gear they use and the quality of sound has
little to do with the quality of their installation. *But I have learned
that SQ ABSOLUTELY relates directly to the quality of your installation for
SOOOOOOO many reasons.

Anyway, nice job. *I bet it sounds outstanding.

MOSFET


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Posts: 810
Default NICE install!!

One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design,
build, and install an enclosure for you!

It's so funny you would say that. My father works with wood all the time
and has an EXTENSIVE shop with every woodworking tool known to modern man,
as well as an extensive storehouse of plywood, MDF, and all manner and
grades of wood. I have often flirted with the idea of building a custom box
for my car and my father has offered to help.

The problem is that pre-made boxes are just so damn CHEAP. When I compare
the hastle (and I know it would be a hastle because I have never done it) of
building my own enclosure vs. just buying a pre-made one, I always decide to
just go the pre-made route. I'm not bad with my hands, my folks also have a
framing studio in their home (it's a huge house), again with every
proffesional tool you would find in a framing shop. My mother trained me to
cut glass (we have an IMMENSE glass cutter), cut matting (of course we have
a huge matt cutter), and we have a casise (sp) so I can cut and join frames.
I can now beautifully matt (double and triple matt if I want!) and frame any
picture, something you would immediately notice when visiting our house. I
love knowing how to do this and take great pride in framing pictures. I
know I would have the same pride if I learned how to woodwork. I have just
never taken the time to learn. But hell, I'm only 42, there's still tons of
time.

Nick aka MOSFET

PS

I love your story about home speakers in your '83 car. We all did those
kind of funky things back then. At precisely the SAME TIME, I convinced our
band teacher to let me borrow this HUGE Ampeg bass amplifier that was not
working. I said I was good at fixing things and would give it a try. It
was a huge affair with a tube head on top and two 15" drivers in the lower
enclosure. It was hell for heavy. Well after going to a local TV, radio
fix-it place in town where I knew the owner, I had replaced the bad fuses
(that was the only problem) and had the thing working. Did I tell the band
teacher? HELL NO!! I used that sucker as a subwoofer, wiring it to my
already large stereo in my room (as well as the latest Technics cassette
deck with DBX, a birthday gift from my parents, Technics turntable with
Audio Technica cartridge, I was the only one among my friends with a Sony
reel-to-reel deck, which could make FLAWLESS recordings of my albums, radio
and several years later CD's), along with a 12 band Radio Shack EQ, and
speakers that each had a 12" woofer, 5" midrange and tweeter, and then a
HUGE Sanyo reciever (all of these were that brushed aluminum look popular
for that day). My stereo looked AWESOME, which was, of course, half the
fun.

It was INCREDIBLE, and was what fueled my love of bass. My friends told me
that when I had it REALLY pumping, you could hear it 5 blocks away (I am
HONESTLY not exagerating). It shook the house so much plaster LITERALLY
fell from the ceiling of the room below mine.

Of course, I loved it.

And the band teacher seemed to forget about it for three years until I got
ready to graduate and brought the matter up. I claimed it still didn't
work, but I HAD to bring it back anyway, of course. I was crushed.

This then set me on my course to reproduce the bass power I once possesed,
and my love of car and home audio was born.

Anyway, it's fun to reminise. The things we did with no money to satisfey
our NEED for LOUD BASS. And keep in mind, this was the days before outboard
subwoofers were common so my set-up was quite unique, to say the least!

Ah, those were the days.....

Nick


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Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
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Default NICE install!!

Ah - you see, I so rarely get to work with wood, that I think of it as
less of a hassle and more of a fun project!

And while buying a prefab box may be cheap-ish, there are so many
advantages to building your own...

The one on my cardomain site probably cost me $75 or $80. Total. If
you already have the wood, you're talking about probably $25 for the
other materials (and one sheet [4ft x 8ft] of 3/4-inch MDF is all
you'd need). [I can hear you now, "Um, $50 for one sheet of wood?!
What the hell??" I buy it at a place that cuts the main pieces for me
with a laser guided machine that's guaranteed accurate to 1/16th of an
inch. Saves 4 hours and a hell of a lot of frustration when all you
have to cut the wood in a straight line is a cheap hand-held circular
saw... But I digress] Actually cutting everything and putting it
together only takes a day - and 1/4 of that is letting glues and
whatnot dry.

What REALLY sucks you in is the planning. Fortunately, I lust for
planning. Planning is my secret lover (or it would be secret, but my
wife is fully aware and almost supportive). I will spend, literally,
months planning installations. I only get to do a new one every 5
years or so, and when I see one coming 6 months ahead - look out!
Diagrams, sketches, calculations, WinISD variations, I even downloaded
and learned how to use google's 3D modeling program (SketchUp) JUST TO
VIRTUALLY BUILD A SUB ENCLOSURE!! Side-Note: That turned out to be a
smart move, because only throught that program could I plan for the
thickness of 3/4-inch MDF cut at a 60-degree angle and mounted to
another piece of wood...

You get the idea.

So, when I say that I'll help you design, build, and install an
enclosure - and you tell me that your parents have every woodworking
tool known to man... Let's just say I need a clean pair of shorts.
So, don't think I'm just blowing smoke up your ass. I live in Federal
Way now, and can certainly get permission from the wife and child to
come hang out for a day or two... :-)

Lastly, you HAVE to wonder if that Ampeg's still kicking!!!

~Mister.Lull

On Apr 3, 2:32*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design,
build, and install an enclosure for you!

It's so funny you would say that. *My father works with wood all the time
and has an EXTENSIVE shop with every woodworking tool known to modern man,
as well as an extensive storehouse of plywood, MDF, and all manner and
grades of wood. *I have often flirted with the idea of building a custom box
for my car and my father has offered to help.

The problem is that pre-made boxes are just so damn CHEAP. *When I compare
the hastle (and I know it would be a hastle because I have never done it) of
building my own enclosure vs. just buying a pre-made one, I always decide to
just go the pre-made route. *I'm not bad with my hands, my folks also have a
framing studio in their home (it's a huge house), again with every
proffesional tool you would find in a framing shop. *My mother trained me to
cut glass (we have an IMMENSE glass cutter), cut matting (of course we have
a huge matt cutter), and we have a casise (sp) so I can cut and join frames.
I can now beautifully matt (double and triple matt if I want!) and frame any
picture, something you would immediately notice when visiting our house. *I
love knowing how to do this and take great pride in framing pictures. *I
know I would have the same pride if I learned how to woodwork. *I have just
never taken the time to learn. *But hell, I'm only 42, there's still tons of
time.

Nick aka MOSFET

PS

I love your story about home speakers in your '83 car. *We all did those
kind of funky things back then. *At precisely the SAME TIME, I convinced our
band teacher to let me borrow this HUGE Ampeg bass amplifier that was not
working. *I said I was good at fixing things and would give it a try. *It
was a huge affair with a tube head on top and two 15" drivers in the lower
enclosure. *It was hell for heavy. *Well after going to a local TV, radio
fix-it place in town where I knew the owner, I had replaced the bad fuses
(that was the only problem) and had the thing working. *Did I tell the band
teacher? *HELL NO!! *I used that sucker as a subwoofer, wiring it to my
already large stereo in my room (as well as the latest Technics cassette
deck with DBX, a birthday gift from my parents, Technics turntable with
Audio Technica cartridge, I was the only one among my friends with a Sony
reel-to-reel deck, which could make FLAWLESS recordings of my albums, radio
and several years later CD's), along with a 12 band Radio Shack EQ, and
speakers that each had a 12" woofer, 5" midrange and tweeter, and then a
HUGE Sanyo reciever (all of these were that brushed aluminum look popular
for that day). *My stereo looked AWESOME, which was, of course, half the
fun.

It was INCREDIBLE, and was what fueled my love of bass. *My friends told me
that when I had it REALLY pumping, you could hear it 5 blocks away (I am
HONESTLY not exagerating). *It shook the house so much plaster LITERALLY
fell from the ceiling of the room below mine.

Of course, I loved it.

And the band teacher seemed to forget about it for three years until I got
ready to graduate and brought the matter up. *I claimed it still didn't
work, but I HAD to bring it back anyway, of course. *I was crushed.

This then set me on my course to reproduce the bass power I once possesed,
and my love of car and home audio was born.

Anyway, it's fun to reminise. *The things we did with no money to satisfey
our NEED for LOUD BASS. *And keep in mind, this was the days before outboard
subwoofers were common so my set-up was quite unique, to say the least!

Ah, those were the days.....

Nick


  #9   Report Post  
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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default NICE install!!

Carefull what you offer, I MAY JUST TAKE YOU UP ON YOUR OFFER.

I'm in the process of designing a system for my wife's car. She's finally
decided she wants a system that at least approaches my Subaru. Like you,
designing is SOOOOO very fun. I too can spend months on designing. The
actual execution is always the part I hate (although my wife seems to think
I love tinkering with my system, she doesn't seem to realize it's the
planning that is TRULY fun), though the end results always make it worth
while.

Anyway, the car is a 1989 Mazda MX-6 and I have already replaced the front
speakers and put in a Pioneer aftermarket HU. I had done this right after
she bought the car b/c I couldn't stand the sound of the factory system,
even listening to talk radio. It was tricky b/c if you research this car
you would find the front speakers are in the dash and are 5" (NOT 5 1/4" but
exactly 5") but I was able to showhorn 5 1/4" speakers in there, mainly
because I already owned an extra pair of good 5.25" speakers. The factory
speakers were an ABSOLUTE joke. Not even dual cone with the obligatory
whizer. Just a VERY cheap cardboard midrange driver, tiny magnet,
incapable of reproducing any frequencies above about 6-8 kHz. It was like
it was designed for AM or talk radio or something.

It was very tricky because unlike the door, it wasn't like I could just put
in some spacers or use tin-snips to enlarge the size of the hole and call it
a day. Because they were in the dash I couldn't put in new screws (as I
routinely do with door speakers when enlarging the factory size) as they
would plainly stick out of the dash and look very ugly. But after two days
of studying the problem, I found a way to secure the slightly larger
speakers in the dash factory location.

But what it SO badly needs is amplification and a subwoofer. I have on hand
a 10" MTX sub in a carpetted box bought for a job I did for a friend who
decided not to build it. I was planning to put that sub in, or use the box
and buy a more powerful 10" sub for it (it is not a very good MTX sub).

But I would prefer putting a pair of 10's or 12's in as the trunk is
enclosed from the rest of the car and I worry a 10" sub won't float the
boat, at least not enough for me.

So I actually am shopping for a pair of 10's or twelves and am thinking of
building my own enclosure. I do have an extra 2 channel amp, but I'd like
to get one more so I have one to power the sub and one to power the front
speakers. Anyway, I've bid bidding on amps and woofers on Ebay lately in
anticipation of this project. If your offer is genuine, and I reallly have
to know if it is, I could bring the materials down to Federal way once I buy
the subs and you can help me build the enclosure.

Again, I'm serious if you're serious. My Email is .
As soon as I have the two speakers I want, or single powerful speaker, I
would love to build a custom enclosure for her car. Perhaps you could help
me hook up the amp, too, as I do not see any logical spot to thread 8 guage
through the firewall for power. This, however, has not stopped me in the
past, I just drill a new hole. I had to do this for my Subaru to fit the
two 4 guage cables I have running back from the battery (one cable for the
sub amp and the other cable to a distr. block to power the other three
amplifiers).

Anyway, if you are serious I will keep you up to date and when the time
comes I really could use your help. I just have to decide on the subs I
want to use first. As far as my Subaru goes, I use a pair of 15's in a
sealed box (with 1.5 square feet of airspace each, the subs are mounted
backwards which gives the subs a bit more airspace). I am very happy with
the sound out of those subs and box so I see no point in messing with those.

But the MAzda is the project that currently preoccupies me.

MOSFET
"Mister.Lull" wrote in message
...
Ah - you see, I so rarely get to work with wood, that I think of it as
less of a hassle and more of a fun project!

And while buying a prefab box may be cheap-ish, there are so many
advantages to building your own...

The one on my cardomain site probably cost me $75 or $80. Total. If
you already have the wood, you're talking about probably $25 for the
other materials (and one sheet [4ft x 8ft] of 3/4-inch MDF is all
you'd need). [I can hear you now, "Um, $50 for one sheet of wood?!
What the hell??" I buy it at a place that cuts the main pieces for me
with a laser guided machine that's guaranteed accurate to 1/16th of an
inch. Saves 4 hours and a hell of a lot of frustration when all you
have to cut the wood in a straight line is a cheap hand-held circular
saw... But I digress] Actually cutting everything and putting it
together only takes a day - and 1/4 of that is letting glues and
whatnot dry.

What REALLY sucks you in is the planning. Fortunately, I lust for
planning. Planning is my secret lover (or it would be secret, but my
wife is fully aware and almost supportive). I will spend, literally,
months planning installations. I only get to do a new one every 5
years or so, and when I see one coming 6 months ahead - look out!
Diagrams, sketches, calculations, WinISD variations, I even downloaded
and learned how to use google's 3D modeling program (SketchUp) JUST TO
VIRTUALLY BUILD A SUB ENCLOSURE!! Side-Note: That turned out to be a
smart move, because only throught that program could I plan for the
thickness of 3/4-inch MDF cut at a 60-degree angle and mounted to
another piece of wood...

You get the idea.

So, when I say that I'll help you design, build, and install an
enclosure - and you tell me that your parents have every woodworking
tool known to man... Let's just say I need a clean pair of shorts.
So, don't think I'm just blowing smoke up your ass. I live in Federal
Way now, and can certainly get permission from the wife and child to
come hang out for a day or two... :-)

Lastly, you HAVE to wonder if that Ampeg's still kicking!!!

~Mister.Lull

On Apr 3, 2:32 pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design,
build, and install an enclosure for you!

It's so funny you would say that. My father works with wood all the time
and has an EXTENSIVE shop with every woodworking tool known to modern man,
as well as an extensive storehouse of plywood, MDF, and all manner and
grades of wood. I have often flirted with the idea of building a custom
box
for my car and my father has offered to help.

The problem is that pre-made boxes are just so damn CHEAP. When I compare
the hastle (and I know it would be a hastle because I have never done it)
of
building my own enclosure vs. just buying a pre-made one, I always decide
to
just go the pre-made route. I'm not bad with my hands, my folks also have
a
framing studio in their home (it's a huge house), again with every
proffesional tool you would find in a framing shop. My mother trained me
to
cut glass (we have an IMMENSE glass cutter), cut matting (of course we
have
a huge matt cutter), and we have a casise (sp) so I can cut and join
frames.
I can now beautifully matt (double and triple matt if I want!) and frame
any
picture, something you would immediately notice when visiting our house. I
love knowing how to do this and take great pride in framing pictures. I
know I would have the same pride if I learned how to woodwork. I have just
never taken the time to learn. But hell, I'm only 42, there's still tons
of
time.

Nick aka MOSFET

PS

I love your story about home speakers in your '83 car. We all did those
kind of funky things back then. At precisely the SAME TIME, I convinced
our
band teacher to let me borrow this HUGE Ampeg bass amplifier that was not
working. I said I was good at fixing things and would give it a try. It
was a huge affair with a tube head on top and two 15" drivers in the lower
enclosure. It was hell for heavy. Well after going to a local TV, radio
fix-it place in town where I knew the owner, I had replaced the bad fuses
(that was the only problem) and had the thing working. Did I tell the band
teacher? HELL NO!! I used that sucker as a subwoofer, wiring it to my
already large stereo in my room (as well as the latest Technics cassette
deck with DBX, a birthday gift from my parents, Technics turntable with
Audio Technica cartridge, I was the only one among my friends with a Sony
reel-to-reel deck, which could make FLAWLESS recordings of my albums,
radio
and several years later CD's), along with a 12 band Radio Shack EQ, and
speakers that each had a 12" woofer, 5" midrange and tweeter, and then a
HUGE Sanyo reciever (all of these were that brushed aluminum look popular
for that day). My stereo looked AWESOME, which was, of course, half the
fun.

It was INCREDIBLE, and was what fueled my love of bass. My friends told me
that when I had it REALLY pumping, you could hear it 5 blocks away (I am
HONESTLY not exagerating). It shook the house so much plaster LITERALLY
fell from the ceiling of the room below mine.

Of course, I loved it.

And the band teacher seemed to forget about it for three years until I got
ready to graduate and brought the matter up. I claimed it still didn't
work, but I HAD to bring it back anyway, of course. I was crushed.

This then set me on my course to reproduce the bass power I once possesed,
and my love of car and home audio was born.

Anyway, it's fun to reminise. The things we did with no money to satisfey
our NEED for LOUD BASS. And keep in mind, this was the days before
outboard
subwoofers were common so my set-up was quite unique, to say the least!

Ah, those were the days.....

Nick



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Ian Ian is offline
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Posts: 3
Default This Group is sadly borring....

MOSFET wrote:
Ian Bjorhovde didn't write any of that, I just accidentily pasted his name
there. Sorry Ian.


Heh. :-)



  #11   Report Post  
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Helen Weed Helen Weed is offline
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Default This Group is sadly borring....

MOSFET wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

....
Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death
of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde



It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to
pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem
silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just
live for the opportunity to laugh at others.

So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to?
  #12   Report Post  
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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default This Group is sadly borring....

I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car
once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you
might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from
Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after a
particularly nasty flame exchange). The ONLY reason I found out about it is
because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage,
condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. Naturally I reported this
(and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car sales
site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he
MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm.......

But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name
names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of flame
throwers. However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame wars with
these guys that your theory could very well be true. And it always seemed
like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the notion that the
only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT scare away the
noobs.

And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this
group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas
turned up to the max.

I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? Hell,
no! I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times
this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car".

I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group,
but I fear you may be on to something.

I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who
shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always
willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or
repetitious the question seemed to be.

I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live
up to this creed.

MOSFET


"Helen Weed" wrote in message
...
MOSFET wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

...
Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the
death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde


It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to
pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem
silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just
live for the opportunity to laugh at others.

So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to?



  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.car
MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default This Group is sadly borring....

Oh, and just to add, I am certainly not the only one who feels this way.
Mr. Lull, for instance, has perhaps been the most consistently helpful
member of this fraternity. Even when I feel like I've had enough of the
bull****, and have to give this group a rest for several months (because I
fear I will throw my monitor out the window), Lull keeps plugging away,
helping all those in need. For that I applaud him because I fear my skin is
a bit too thin for the insults and hate and I just have to excuse myself for
a period of time now and then.

So for all of you who still try to always help the best you can, I salute
you.

Another thing that just came to mind that also may be the cause of very
little activity is the incredible amount of SPAM we started getting a couple
years ago. You have to wade through all this BS to find an actual question
or someone in need. I know this now happens in almost all newsgroups and it
is a shame. Again, it represents yet ANOTHER difference between this group
now and this group 10-15 years ago. It may confuse noobs as it appears
there are about 30 times the SPAM posts as there are actual car audio
related posts. If I came to this group for the first time and all I saw
were SPAM posts, again I would likely seek my answer somewhere else. Don't
think anything can be done about it, short of creating a new MODERATED, car
audio group. I have flirted with this idea but I fear I wouldn't have the
time to moderate it. Lull, what about you? Just a thought because RAC is
dying a quick death.

MOSFET

"MOSFET" wrote in message
m...
I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car
once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you
might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from
Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after
a particularly nasty flame exchange). The ONLY reason I found out about it
is because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage,
condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. Naturally I reported
this (and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car
sales site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he
MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm.......

But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name
names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of
flame throwers. However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame
wars with these guys that your theory could very well be true. And it
always seemed like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the
notion that the only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT
scare away the noobs.

And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this
group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas
turned up to the max.

I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? Hell,
no! I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times
this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car".

I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group,
but I fear you may be on to something.

I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who
shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always
willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or
repetitious the question seemed to be.

I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live
up to this creed.

MOSFET


"Helen Weed" wrote in message
...
MOSFET wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.

...
Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?

Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the
death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.

MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde


It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to
pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem
silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just
live for the opportunity to laugh at others.

So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to?





  #14   Report Post  
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Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
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Posts: 143
Default This Group is sadly borring....

Well, while I appreciate the kudos, I take breaks from the group as
well. Whether it be life that gets in the way, or frustration with
hackers, spammers, and flamers varies from break to break...

The last break I took was due to the fact that some jack-assed hacker/
spammer had "stolen" my ID... Still, to this day, if I check my
posting history (I use google groups to access) there's a bunch of
garbled crap that "I" have posted in many, many groups...

Moderated groups are fine (I was a member of one for quite a while
[can't remember the name now, but it's gone]), but sometimes I enjoy
using a little bit of colorful language to accentuate a point. When
you have a glorified digital janitor on a power-kick who erases half
your posts, even though they contained good advice, moderated forums
can be frustrating (not that all mods are like that, but as
stereotypes go...........).

~Mister.Lull

On Apr 8, 2:00*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
Oh, and just to add, I am certainly not the only one who feels this way.
Mr. Lull, for instance, has perhaps been the most consistently helpful
member of this fraternity. *Even when I feel like I've had enough of the
bull****, and have to give this group a rest for several months (because I
fear I will throw my monitor out the window), Lull keeps plugging away,
helping all those in need. *For that I applaud him because I fear my skin is
a bit too thin for the insults and hate and I just have to excuse myself for
a period of time now and then.

So for all of you who still try to always help the best you can, I salute
you.

Another thing that just came to mind that also may be the cause of very
little activity is the incredible amount of SPAM we started getting a couple
years ago. *You have to wade through all this BS to find an actual question
or someone in need. *I know this now happens in almost all newsgroups and it
is a shame. *Again, it represents yet ANOTHER difference between this group
now and this group 10-15 years ago. *It may confuse noobs as it appears
there are about 30 times the SPAM posts as there are actual car audio
related posts. *If I came to this group for the first time and all I saw
were SPAM posts, again I would likely seek my answer somewhere else. *Don't
think anything can be done about it, short of creating a new MODERATED, car
audio group. *I have flirted with this idea but I fear I wouldn't have the
time to moderate it. *Lull, what about you? *Just a thought because RAC is
dying a quick death.

MOSFET

"MOSFET" wrote in message

m...



I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car
once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you
might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from
Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after
a particularly nasty flame exchange). *The ONLY reason I found out about it
is because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage,
condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. *Naturally I reported
this (and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car
sales site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he
MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm.......


But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name
names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.


You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of
flame throwers. *However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame
wars with these guys that your theory could very well be true. *And it
always seemed like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the
notion that the only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT
scare away the noobs.


And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this
group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas
turned up to the max.


I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? *Hell,
no! *I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times
this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car".


I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group,
but I fear you may be on to something.


I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who
shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always
willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or
repetitious the question seemed to be.


I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live
up to this creed.


MOSFET


"Helen Weed" wrote in message
...
MOSFET wrote:
Come on guys! *This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.
...
Anyway, I felt like ranting. *Hell, nothing else was happening, right?


Anyway, it's a little sad. *I saw it happening 10 years ago with the
death of IASCA. *I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.


MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde


It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to
pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem
silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just
live for the opportunity to laugh at others.


So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to?- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


  #15   Report Post  
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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default This Group is sadly borring....

When
you have a glorified digital janitor on a power-kick who erases half
your posts, even though they contained good advice, moderated forums
can be frustrating (not that all mods are like that, but as
stereotypes go...........).


I hear you there, brother. I was a member of two moderated home-stereo
audiophile groups and my posts were often not posted although I knew they
were relevant and helpful to the discussion at hand (at least based on what
I saw from other postings, not that I am the end-all, be-all expert on
high-end home audio). Once I asked a question and recieved a curt Email
back that my question was not "worthy" for consideration by the regular
"gods".

What I began to notice was that certain individuals seemed to ALWAYS get
their posts listed, no matter how superflouous or unrelated their comments
were. And it wans't long before I relalized what I was TRULY dealing with
was a private club for "members only". Needless to say, after this
epiphany, I never went back.

So yes, I agree with you Lull. My experience with EVERY mod I've ever
participated in has not been a positive one.

And I suppose I can see why. Even the most earnest attempt at making an all
inclusive, helpful, flame and obsenity free moderated group will, in all
probability, eventually go south. The reason is simple, the moderator.

After wading through endless SPAM, obsenity, non-related topics, and
downright nastiness, a moderator will eventually find himself taxed for time
and become just a little jaded at all the garbage he has to read through.
No doubt a moderator will fall into the trap of creating a kind of
"short-hand" way of dealing with all the posts. The easist way is to first
allow all posts, sight unseen, from those people the moderator knows well.
The next bit of short-hand is a cursory look at everything else and at the
first sign of anything that doesn't smell right AT ALL, the delete button is
employed.

I mean, moderating a popular group CANNOT be easy and, of course, extremelly
time consuming. It is simply human nature that eventually a type of
shorthand by the moderator will evolve, no matter how noble the original
intentions. Like I said before, I don't think I'd want that job, in fact, I
KNOW I wouldn't want that responsibility.

Perhaps one day AI will evolve to the point that a computer can screen the
questions in a fair, unbiased way, but we are obviously VERY far from that
(heck, for now I'd take a bot that simply tossed out all those posts with
obsenities, it would at least be a small start down that road).

MOSFET




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James James is offline
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Posts: 83
Default This Group is sadly borring....

Just a quick comment from a casual "reader" of this group. I am a low key
person who mainly monitors this group, but as a novice in car audio, it has
been nice to post questions here and have some helpful responses,
especially including MOSFET.

Yes, it is mostly crud and spammers here, but if you need the help you need
the help............

Good Luck / Don't Give Up

James


  #17   Report Post  
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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Default This Group is sadly borring....

Well said. Be persistent.

If you need the help, despite all the BS, THE KNOWLEDGE IS HERE. I have
asked dozens of questions of my own over the years and was ALWAYS able to
get the info I needed right here. I posted a question only a couple months
back and got the information I wanted.

James, you raise a good point. This group may not be exactly the same as it
was 10 years ago with the SPAMMERS and such, but this is still where I go
when I need the 411.

I suppose my orginal post on this thread really was about how little
activity there seems to be these days, not that there still aren't nice
people willling to help anyone with a question. Fortunately there are such
folks quitely waiting in the wings ready to help anyone who asks.

It's just that I remember a day when this group was positively BRIMMING with
questions (I've got alternator whine; Dynamat's too expensive, any
alternatives; who makes the best this or that; how does IASCA judge this or
that; how do I connect my iPod to my stereo; etc.). Every day, dozens of
questions or comments.

Now, almost nothing. That was my original thought. And I just wanted to
kick around some ideas as to why this is so (too much SPAM, too many people
scaring the noobs, fewer people putting aftermarket systems in their cars,
etc.).

But James, you raise a good point. If persistent, this is STILL a good
place to get a question answered about car audio.

MOSFET


"James" wrote in message
...
Just a quick comment from a casual "reader" of this group. I am a low key
person who mainly monitors this group, but as a novice in car audio, it
has
been nice to post questions here and have some helpful responses,
especially including MOSFET.

Yes, it is mostly crud and spammers here, but if you need the help you
need
the help............

Good Luck / Don't Give Up

James




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