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Steve S
 
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Default Electrical ground question

I have a small bedroom studio which mostly consists of keyboards and
computers. Once in a while I plug in my electric guitar. I ammoving
to a new rental house which does not have grounded power
unfortunately. I really want to avoid spending too much money to try
to get grounded power in there. Do you gurus have any other
suggestions about it? Will the sound suffer? Will I electricute
myself when I play the guitar? Are there any alternatives to wiring
up ground? I guess I can have an electrician come out and run a
ground wire up from the crawl space..providing he can find something
to ground to. Would probably cost me up to $500 to do that
though..which is enough to buy a cool music toy...so... not
insignificant..

Suggestions?

-steve
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Tim Perry
 
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Default Electrical ground question


"George" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve S) wrote:

I have a small bedroom studio which mostly consists of keyboards and
computers. Once in a while I plug in my electric guitar. I ammoving
to a new rental house which does not have grounded power
unfortunately. I really want to avoid spending too much money to try
to get grounded power in there. Do you gurus have any other
suggestions about it? Will the sound suffer? Will I electricute
myself when I play the guitar? Are there any alternatives to wiring
up ground? I guess I can have an electrician come out and run a
ground wire up from the crawl space..providing he can find something
to ground to. Would probably cost me up to $500 to do that
though..which is enough to buy a cool music toy...so... not
insignificant..

Suggestions?

-steve


Steve find a eletrician who need a recording made
and barter
George


point out to your new landlord that there may be liability issues to
substandard electrical wiring.

i have seen quite a few of these older houses. some are quite hazardous to
live in. in one case a wall mounted lamp fixture was wired hot to the metal
frame. when the tenant turned the lamp on while touching the metal kitchen
sink he got a zap.
this was a 2 conductor wire.

recently one of my friends was getting shocked while cooking on an electric
stove. the heating elements were intermittently shorting to to the outer
covering of the element which in turn lacked a ground. the replacement
burners came with grounding kits.






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Bob
 
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Default Electrical ground question

On 2 Apr 2004 12:00:06 -0800, (Steve S) wrote:

I have a small bedroom studio which mostly consists of keyboards and
computers. Once in a while I plug in my electric guitar. I ammoving
to a new rental house which does not have grounded power
unfortunately.


Is that legal? What country are you in??

I really want to avoid spending too much money to try
to get grounded power in there.


Doesn't the landlord pay for that??

Do you gurus have any other
suggestions about it? Will the sound suffer?


Maybe...

Will I electricute
myself when I play the guitar?


Maybe...

Are there any alternatives to wiring up ground?


no

I guess I can have an electrician come out and run a
ground wire up from the crawl space..providing he can find something
to ground to.


Do you have running water? Ground usually goes to the copper water pipe where it
enters the building...

Would probably cost me up to $500 to do that
though..which is enough to buy a cool music toy...so... not
insignificant..


If you buy 100' of proper 14 gauge 3 conductor wire and run it between the
incoming power and your bedroom, you will save a fortune in labor. Also run a
single ground wire between the fuse box and the water pipe. Ask at your hardware
store for the proper sizes and accessories... Don't connect anything, the
electrician will want to do that... Just support the wire every 4 feet.

Suggestions?


or...

Buy a proper 3 prong extension cord with a multi outlet that can accommodate all
of your equipment, and run a ground wire from a metal part of something you can
verify is grounded, such as the chassis of your guitar amp if it has a 3 prong
plug, and run this ground wire down to the copper water pipe. You can buy a
clamp for this connection. You could also place an outlet box near the pipe, and
ground to that, and plug your extension in there. Then run the 2 wire line from
your box to another outlet and plug in there. As long as you use plugs, you
don't need to be an electrician. Remember that plugs are polarized today for hot
and neutral.

GET A POWER PLUG TESTER!! Those little plug-in boxes with the 2 lights to tell
you the outlet is ok, you really need one... You may need to reverse your 2 line
connection.

If you have a voltmeter, use it to verify everything is grounded together, and
there is no AC volts on any exposed metal parts.

Be careful... if in doubt get someone to help you.

-steve



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Tom Paterson
 
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Default Electrical ground question

From: "Bob FlintsTone":

(Steve S) wrote:

I have a small bedroom studio which mostly consists of keyboards and
computers. Once in a while I plug in my electric guitar. I ammoving
to a new rental house which does not have grounded power
unfortunately.
I really want to avoid spending too much money to try
to get grounded power in there.


Here we go again.

So the move is a done deal? How's the landlord about needed improvements?

You need a ground rod ground *and* a waterpipe ground.

Today in the 1940 house my wife and I just bought, the old cloth insulated wire
started coming out, the new Romex going in. New 200 amp service, will have lots
of dedicated circuits, will all be to new code incl. 120v/battery
interconnected fire alarms and GFCI's where needed plus the new arc fault
breakers for bedrooms ($30.00 each for these breakers where GE single space
20amp "normal" breakers are $3-4.00). The old Federal Pacific Electric breaker
panel will be replaced with aforesaid GE unit (~ cheapest breakers and good
stuff at reasonable price, esp. at Home Depot, Lowes).

While taking apart one of the old medicine cabinets, not intending to expose
bare wire yet, the chromed steel end cap for the plastic light fell into an old
extension cord being used as a shaver outlet (not plugged in all the way,
prongs exposed). My hand was on the endcap. I felt nothing before my hand flew
off, but even with sparks flying and bouncing on the floor, and the old
wallpaper burnt, the FPE breaker did *not* trip. They are famous for this,
staying open under full load dead short ("house fire" and/or "electrocution").
"One of those things", I was lucky I wasn't grounded.

Sorry for long. A master electrician friend and I worked out a deal (I play
helper, do the grunt/dirty work and run for parts, pay him by the hour, buy his
coffee. He knows how to wire houses 100% to code and will do it only that
way.). If I had a landlord, I'd work out a deal to run at least one dedicated,
code-legal circuit in his house, and pay for it myself if that's what it took.
Given an open place in the panel for another breaker, $500 should do that
easily, even without knowing an electrician. Two open breaker spaces, two
circuits.

While the real electrician is there, he can correct any handyman errors he
finds, per landlord approval, which person should be glad if a dangerous
(death/injury lawsuit, loss of dwelling) situation is corrected. --Tom
Paterson
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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Electrical ground question

Tom Paterson wrote:

While taking apart one of the old medicine cabinets, not intending to expose
bare wire yet, the chromed steel end cap for the plastic light fell into an old
extension cord being used as a shaver outlet (not plugged in all the way,
prongs exposed). My hand was on the endcap. I felt nothing before my hand flew
off, but even with sparks flying and bouncing on the floor, and the old
wallpaper burnt, the FPE breaker did *not* trip. They are famous for this,
staying open under full load dead short ("house fire" and/or "electrocution").
"One of those things", I was lucky I wasn't grounded.


I worked in a government facility that used Federal no-blows. An electrician
working on an outdoor lighting circuit accidentally shorted something. The
breaker for the circuit did not trip. The main service breaker did not trip.
The substation breaker DID trip. I don't know how that happened, but the
neighbors were not happy and the panel was replaced within eight hours.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Kurt Albershardt
 
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Default Electrical ground question

Bob wrote:

If you buy 100' of proper 14 gauge 3 conductor wire and run it between the
incoming power and your bedroom, you will save a fortune in labor.


But you will not have a 20A circuit and you will have voltage drop even on a 15A one. Spend the extra $2 and get 12 gauge, please. If you really need to run 100 feet for a 20A circuit, you'll be wanting 10 gauge.


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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Electrical ground question

Tom Paterson wrote:
From: (Scott Dorsey)


An electrician
working on an outdoor lighting circuit accidentally shorted something.


Even the pros can mess up.


Yup, that's why we have breakers.

The
breaker for the circuit did not trip. The main service breaker did not trip.


What can I say? This is where someone dies and/or the house burns.


That happens a lot with Federal No-Blows, apparently.

One of the many subjects I'm ignorant on, but another consideration or two: an
electrician told me a dedicated computer power circuit was highly advisable.
Didn't get an explanation. Another more recently pointed out that one advantage
of "localized" (by room or function) circuits is that if you do pop a breaker,
the cause is easier to locate. Sounds good to me.


Makes sense. Also you can reduce noise issues with isolated grounding.

Repeating motive for posting: Handyman electrical work kills people and starts
fires. Yes, I've gotten away with (e.g.) plugging room heaters into known-bad
wire, etc. But when you don't "have to"...

Ground rods are "code" for good reason. They can be a PITA to drive and make
work. BTDT myself and also witnessed the struggle on the job. Install problems
are inconsequential.


Grounding systems have been required since the 1930s. But grounded outlets
have not been required until comparatively recently.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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