What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Thanks.

Steve

"hollywood_steve" wrote in message
om...
What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

Haven't bought from one but what I've gathered talking with friends who did
it all depends on the builder. Some builders go above the beyond the call of
duty. Others I've heard are worse than ordering from Dell/Gateway/etc. (No
slams meant to those companies, just you'd expect "more" considering).

"hollywood_steve" wrote in message
om...
What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

Haven't bought from one but what I've gathered talking with friends who did
it all depends on the builder. Some builders go above the beyond the call of
duty. Others I've heard are worse than ordering from Dell/Gateway/etc. (No
slams meant to those companies, just you'd expect "more" considering).

In article writes:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?

One of the things that surprises me is that you don't pay a whole lot
for what's hopefully some specialized knowledge. Some people consider
than a dollar over the lowest possible on-line price for several
cartons of computer components is a ripoff ("anyone can build a
computer, why pay for it?") and those need not respond. I think it's
worth a few hundred bucks for someone else to do all the research,
purchasing, assembly, testing, and (if purchased along with the
computer) software and audio hardware installation.

When this product first came along, the premium was about $1000 and
that was enough to discourage many people. But today it tends to be
$300-500, and you get much more hardware performance for less money,
so when you look at the capability, the cost isn't that big a deal.
The trick is to find a good supplier. Carillion made a splash a few
years ago, but I haven't heard anything from them (good or bad)
recently. I was surprised not to see them in the survey of computers
for audio in the current issue of Recording. But there are a couple of
people around here who offer custom audio optimized computers if you
trust someone you run across in a newsgroup.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?

One of the advantages is that they're relatively small volume dealers,
so they don't buy motherboards in lots of 1000 and can buy whatever
you or they think would be best for your application.

If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Well, that's the sort of thing that you could probably do with a
server-quality computer. Sadly, the local computer shop seems to be
fading, so it's hard to find a neighborhood dealer who can discuss
your needs with you and pick out the best set of components that fit
your budget. If you have a place like that, I'd talk to them first.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?

One of the things that surprises me is that you don't pay a whole lot
for what's hopefully some specialized knowledge. Some people consider
than a dollar over the lowest possible on-line price for several
cartons of computer components is a ripoff ("anyone can build a
computer, why pay for it?") and those need not respond. I think it's
worth a few hundred bucks for someone else to do all the research,
purchasing, assembly, testing, and (if purchased along with the
computer) software and audio hardware installation.

When this product first came along, the premium was about $1000 and
that was enough to discourage many people. But today it tends to be
$300-500, and you get much more hardware performance for less money,
so when you look at the capability, the cost isn't that big a deal.
The trick is to find a good supplier. Carillion made a splash a few
years ago, but I haven't heard anything from them (good or bad)
recently. I was surprised not to see them in the survey of computers
for audio in the current issue of Recording. But there are a couple of
people around here who offer custom audio optimized computers if you
trust someone you run across in a newsgroup.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?

One of the advantages is that they're relatively small volume dealers,
so they don't buy motherboards in lots of 1000 and can buy whatever
you or they think would be best for your application.

If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Well, that's the sort of thing that you could probably do with a
server-quality computer. Sadly, the local computer shop seems to be
fading, so it's hard to find a neighborhood dealer who can discuss
your needs with you and pick out the best set of components that fit
your budget. If you have a place like that, I'd talk to them first.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.
I build my own 'puters and save lots of money in the process. Also, I
like knowing the nitty gritty so I can troubleshoot/install things and
work my way around difficulties. It's an area of my life that i like
to have mastery and to be able to control my own destiny.

I like technology, so this was fine for me.

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,
but I wouldn't be caught dead fattening the pockets of a "custom daw
pc" builder.

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard. that
is the most important area. in fact you should figure out what
soundcard you want, and then get a motherboard with a chipset that
works well with it.

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.
I build my own 'puters and save lots of money in the process. Also, I
like knowing the nitty gritty so I can troubleshoot/install things and
work my way around difficulties. It's an area of my life that i like
to have mastery and to be able to control my own destiny.

I like technology, so this was fine for me.

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,
but I wouldn't be caught dead fattening the pockets of a "custom daw
pc" builder.

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard. that
is the most important area. in fact you should figure out what
soundcard you want, and then get a motherboard with a chipset that
works well with it.

Really, if you don't need a rack mount unit, it's fairly easy to
research and build an system yourself if you are handy that way --
especially if you don't feel the need to be on the cutting edge of
everything, and can be happy with tried-&-true components from say 6
months ago. There is plenty of info on the net about what components
are most robust and/or best suited for DAWs.

Al

On 4 Oct 2004 18:23:30 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article writes:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?

One of the things that surprises me is that you don't pay a whole lot
for what's hopefully some specialized knowledge. Some people consider
than a dollar over the lowest possible on-line price for several
cartons of computer components is a ripoff ("anyone can build a
computer, why pay for it?") and those need not respond. I think it's
worth a few hundred bucks for someone else to do all the research,
purchasing, assembly, testing, and (if purchased along with the
computer) software and audio hardware installation.

When this product first came along, the premium was about $1000 and
that was enough to discourage many people. But today it tends to be
$300-500, and you get much more hardware performance for less money,
so when you look at the capability, the cost isn't that big a deal.
The trick is to find a good supplier. Carillion made a splash a few
years ago, but I haven't heard anything from them (good or bad)
recently. I was surprised not to see them in the survey of computers
for audio in the current issue of Recording. But there are a couple of
people around here who offer custom audio optimized computers if you
trust someone you run across in a newsgroup.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?

One of the advantages is that they're relatively small volume dealers,
so they don't buy motherboards in lots of 1000 and can buy whatever
you or they think would be best for your application.

If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Well, that's the sort of thing that you could probably do with a
server-quality computer. Sadly, the local computer shop seems to be
fading, so it's hard to find a neighborhood dealer who can discuss
your needs with you and pick out the best set of components that fit
your budget. If you have a place like that, I'd talk to them first.

Really, if you don't need a rack mount unit, it's fairly easy to
research and build an system yourself if you are handy that way --
especially if you don't feel the need to be on the cutting edge of
everything, and can be happy with tried-&-true components from say 6
months ago. There is plenty of info on the net about what components
are most robust and/or best suited for DAWs.

Al

On 4 Oct 2004 18:23:30 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article writes:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?

One of the things that surprises me is that you don't pay a whole lot
for what's hopefully some specialized knowledge. Some people consider
than a dollar over the lowest possible on-line price for several
cartons of computer components is a ripoff ("anyone can build a
computer, why pay for it?") and those need not respond. I think it's
worth a few hundred bucks for someone else to do all the research,
purchasing, assembly, testing, and (if purchased along with the
computer) software and audio hardware installation.

When this product first came along, the premium was about $1000 and
that was enough to discourage many people. But today it tends to be
$300-500, and you get much more hardware performance for less money,
so when you look at the capability, the cost isn't that big a deal.
The trick is to find a good supplier. Carillion made a splash a few
years ago, but I haven't heard anything from them (good or bad)
recently. I was surprised not to see them in the survey of computers
for audio in the current issue of Recording. But there are a couple of
people around here who offer custom audio optimized computers if you
trust someone you run across in a newsgroup.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?

One of the advantages is that they're relatively small volume dealers,
so they don't buy motherboards in lots of 1000 and can buy whatever
you or they think would be best for your application.

If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Well, that's the sort of thing that you could probably do with a
server-quality computer. Sadly, the local computer shop seems to be
fading, so it's hard to find a neighborhood dealer who can discuss
your needs with you and pick out the best set of components that fit
your budget. If you have a place like that, I'd talk to them first.

"hollywood_steve" wrote in message
om...
What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

There are a few specialist Audio PC builders on PCDAW list -

mailto

geoff

"hollywood_steve" wrote in message
om...
What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

There are a few specialist Audio PC builders on PCDAW list -

mailto

geoff

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:46:09 -0700, hollywood_steve wrote:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

I have a Carillion rack mount PC for live use and it's reliable, quiet and
physically robust. If you are just building a server then consider if you
really need the strength and low noise.

Will this server be on 24/7? If so, be sure you make that clear when
gettting quotes, you want proper server power supplys/fans etc that aren't
going to die after a years constant use.



Thanks.

Steve

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:46:09 -0700, hollywood_steve wrote:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

I have a Carillion rack mount PC for live use and it's reliable, quiet and
physically robust. If you are just building a server then consider if you
really need the strength and low noise.

Will this server be on 24/7? If so, be sure you make that clear when
gettting quotes, you want proper server power supplys/fans etc that aren't
going to die after a years constant use.



Thanks.

Steve

I've ordered components from endpcnoise.com before, and found the service
and pricing to be quite good (a lot cheaper than, e.g. Carillon, but also
less comprehensive). They put together complete systems, too. The Quiet Cube
Media PC looks like a very sweet starting point for a portable rig (paired
with a smallish LCD screen and a wireless mouse/keyboard, maybe).

On the other hand, I'm experienced enough to modify any system to suit my
needs, and am able to check for compatibility with my soundcard (Echo Layla
24). I also install all my own software and tweak the OS for audio from the
ground up.

Chipset/soundcard compatibility seems to be less of an issue than it used to
be, thankfully. Most disk drives/cables/controllers are more than up to the
demands of multitrack audio now, too. Video production may still be taxing
on the average system, OTOH.

Ryan

I've ordered components from endpcnoise.com before, and found the service
and pricing to be quite good (a lot cheaper than, e.g. Carillon, but also
less comprehensive). They put together complete systems, too. The Quiet Cube
Media PC looks like a very sweet starting point for a portable rig (paired
with a smallish LCD screen and a wireless mouse/keyboard, maybe).

On the other hand, I'm experienced enough to modify any system to suit my
needs, and am able to check for compatibility with my soundcard (Echo Layla
24). I also install all my own software and tweak the OS for audio from the
ground up.

Chipset/soundcard compatibility seems to be less of an issue than it used to
be, thankfully. Most disk drives/cables/controllers are more than up to the
demands of multitrack audio now, too. Video production may still be taxing
on the average system, OTOH.

Ryan

In article writes:

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.

How much of that learning will be valid when you replace this computer
in three years? The reason why I shy away from learning too much about
computers is that it can become a full time job to keep up, and a
computer is just a tool to get a job done.

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,

So you pay for someone to build things that you can't build your self.
That's fine. I build my own cables, and some people ask if they can
wire their studio with "a guitar cabel".

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard.

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card
2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has
3. What to do if you can't find what you think is correct? (answer:
go back to step 1.)

If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash. While you might indeed learn one case that
works, if you recommend your solution to someone six months from now,
he'll find himself at Step 1.

If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.

How much of that learning will be valid when you replace this computer
in three years? The reason why I shy away from learning too much about
computers is that it can become a full time job to keep up, and a
computer is just a tool to get a job done.

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,

So you pay for someone to build things that you can't build your self.
That's fine. I build my own cables, and some people ask if they can
wire their studio with "a guitar cabel".

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard.

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card
2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has
3. What to do if you can't find what you think is correct? (answer:
go back to step 1.)

If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash. While you might indeed learn one case that
works, if you recommend your solution to someone six months from now,
he'll find himself at Step 1.

If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article playonATcomcast.net writes:

Really, if you don't need a rack mount unit, it's fairly easy to
research and build an system yourself if you are handy that way --
especially if you don't feel the need to be on the cutting edge of
everything, and can be happy with tried-&-true components from say 6
months ago. There is plenty of info on the net about what components
are most robust and/or best suited for DAWs.

The problem is that there's TOO MUCH information. If you aren't
conversant with the industry technology, you can't understand what
you're reading.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article playonATcomcast.net writes:

Really, if you don't need a rack mount unit, it's fairly easy to
research and build an system yourself if you are handy that way --
especially if you don't feel the need to be on the cutting edge of
everything, and can be happy with tried-&-true components from say 6
months ago. There is plenty of info on the net about what components
are most robust and/or best suited for DAWs.

The problem is that there's TOO MUCH information. If you aren't
conversant with the industry technology, you can't understand what
you're reading.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Actually, quite a bit transfers from one computer to the other. Just
because there are new CPU architectures that incorporate new busses, new
technologies and such doesn't mean it takes another lifetime to learn them
in comparison to learning about the base level computer stuff I learned on
PCs in 1981 or Apple ][ even earlier. Although the Apple ][ knowledge
didn't translate to anything by the IIc, each of the enhancements to the
Intel based architecture is just that, an enhancement. Serial ATA isn't a
big step over Fibrechannel in learning curve. Extensions of SCSI don't
change SCSI in itself. ESDI is certainly different than the later IDE, but
again, it's a moot point to worry about. Hyperthreading, SSE (I and II),
3DMax, etc., are just additions that are still incorporated into the
firmware without being necessary. Dual application data pipelines, dual
data rates (data being sent on the rise and fall of current), etc., are not
something one can do anything about but make certain they get the right
memory dimms at the right voltages, but again, no one would even allow you
to buy the wrong memory for a new motherboard.

In other words, for all practical purposes it's just as easy today to build
one's own computer, perhaps even easier, than it was in the days of the
initial 16KB IBM PCs. In fact, it's far easier today, so much so that my
wife builds not only her own computers, but she usually builds/upgrades
those for her sisters, too. My son builds computers.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1096975353k@trad...

In article
writes:

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.

How much of that learning will be valid when you replace this computer
in three years? The reason why I shy away from learning too much about
computers is that it can become a full time job to keep up, and a
computer is just a tool to get a job done.

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,

So you pay for someone to build things that you can't build your self.
That's fine. I build my own cables, and some people ask if they can
wire their studio with "a guitar cabel".

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard.

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card
2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has
3. What to do if you can't find what you think is correct? (answer:
go back to step 1.)

If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash. While you might indeed learn one case that
works, if you recommend your solution to someone six months from now,
he'll find himself at Step 1.

If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Actually, quite a bit transfers from one computer to the other. Just
because there are new CPU architectures that incorporate new busses, new
technologies and such doesn't mean it takes another lifetime to learn them
in comparison to learning about the base level computer stuff I learned on
PCs in 1981 or Apple ][ even earlier. Although the Apple ][ knowledge
didn't translate to anything by the IIc, each of the enhancements to the
Intel based architecture is just that, an enhancement. Serial ATA isn't a
big step over Fibrechannel in learning curve. Extensions of SCSI don't
change SCSI in itself. ESDI is certainly different than the later IDE, but
again, it's a moot point to worry about. Hyperthreading, SSE (I and II),
3DMax, etc., are just additions that are still incorporated into the
firmware without being necessary. Dual application data pipelines, dual
data rates (data being sent on the rise and fall of current), etc., are not
something one can do anything about but make certain they get the right
memory dimms at the right voltages, but again, no one would even allow you
to buy the wrong memory for a new motherboard.

In other words, for all practical purposes it's just as easy today to build
one's own computer, perhaps even easier, than it was in the days of the
initial 16KB IBM PCs. In fact, it's far easier today, so much so that my
wife builds not only her own computers, but she usually builds/upgrades
those for her sisters, too. My son builds computers.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1096975353k@trad...

In article
writes:

It depends on *you* more than anything. I personally went the
sweat-it-out road, and learned what I need to know about this stuff.

How much of that learning will be valid when you replace this computer
in three years? The reason why I shy away from learning too much about
computers is that it can become a full time job to keep up, and a
computer is just a tool to get a job done.

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

On the other hand, when it comes time for me to buy an iso-booth, I'm
going straight to vocalbooth.com and picking out a nice one for
myself. It will be $3000+. But the fit and finish and guesswork will
be solved for me, and will save me a whole lot of saturdays at home
depot. So basically, I'm willing to pay the piper on the iso booth,

So you pay for someone to build things that you can't build your self.
That's fine. I build my own cables, and some people ask if they can
wire their studio with "a guitar cabel".

If you *do* decide to build your own computer, remember to make sure
the chipset on your motherboard is friendly to your soundcard.

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card
2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has
3. What to do if you can't find what you think is correct? (answer:
go back to step 1.)

If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash. While you might indeed learn one case that
works, if you recommend your solution to someone six months from now,
he'll find himself at Step 1.

If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article ,
(hollywood_steve) wrote:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Thanks.

Steve




Check out www.pcaudiolabs.com. These guys build audio PCs to order, but
their site is very informative for the do it yourselfer.

--
Bobby Owsinski
Surround Associates
http://www.surroundassociates.com

In article ,
(hollywood_steve) wrote:

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example? Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)? I
know that there are certain features that they provide that are all
but unavailable from the guys who build word processors, like rack
mount enclosures.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company? If it matters, I'm not looking to assemble
some high powered DAW, just a super reliable system for reading and
archiving files from removable SCSI drives.

Thanks.

Steve




Check out www.pcaudiolabs.com. These guys build audio PCs to order, but
their site is very informative for the do it yourselfer.

--
Bobby Owsinski
Surround Associates
http://www.surroundassociates.com

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example?
Well I'm biased but I think it's good to buy an audio specific
computer. I'm not a computer, just a single person who likes building
DAWs for people.

Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?
My prices are competitive to the big boys - apple for apple.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?
Working with a smaller company, myself or one of the others, will be
far more enjoyable that working w/ Dell (who won't be able to sell you
a quiet computer either).

Check out the specs on my DAWs at http://www.MusicIsLove.com.

Mike

PS - I'm also thinking about offering a "shuttle" type micro-computer
for those who need to go into the field.

What is the general consensus (if such thing exists...) concerning the
companies that build "audio specific" computers, Carillon, for
example?
Well I'm biased but I think it's good to buy an audio specific
computer. I'm not a computer, just a single person who likes building
DAWs for people.

Does the added value they provide warrant whatever markup
they charge over a similar system assembled by Dell (or whoever)?
My prices are competitive to the big boys - apple for apple.

I'm not looking for brand specific information so much, but whether it
makes sense to work with one of these audio PC companies versus going
with a general PC company?
Working with a smaller company, myself or one of the others, will be
far more enjoyable that working w/ Dell (who won't be able to sell you
a quiet computer either).

Check out the specs on my DAWs at http://www.MusicIsLove.com.

Mike

PS - I'm also thinking about offering a "shuttle" type micro-computer
for those who need to go into the field.

On 5 Oct 2004 10:09:53 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card

Ask in forums and/or newsgroups. There are a ton of audio forums and
website that have this kind of information.

2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has

This is also not difficult to discover. I've found many people who
build DAWs will generously share their knowledge. Everything I
learned about putting my computer together I learned from the
Samplitude forum and sites such as Overclock.com.

Al

On 5 Oct 2004 10:09:53 -0400, (Mike Rivers) wrote:

That's the first problem. How do you find out:

1. What chipset is friendly to your sound card

Ask in forums and/or newsgroups. There are a ton of audio forums and
website that have this kind of information.

2. What chipset the motherboard you're considering has

This is also not difficult to discover. I've found many people who
build DAWs will generously share their knowledge. Everything I
learned about putting my computer together I learned from the
Samplitude forum and sites such as Overclock.com.

Al

Check out www.pcaudiolabs.com. These guys build audio PCs to order, but
their site is very informative for the do it yourselfer.
I can beat their price & customize your DAW to your specs.

Mike
http://www.MusicIsLove.com

Check out www.pcaudiolabs.com. These guys build audio PCs to order, but
their site is very informative for the do it yourselfer.
I can beat their price & customize your DAW to your specs.

Mike
http://www.MusicIsLove.com

I will tell you this about Carillon - they still cannot supply a PC in a timely
fashion (as in 30 days from the day you ordered it). I've never heard anyone
say anything bad about their machines once they were able to get one, but I
(literally today) just cancelled my order with them, as four weeks after my
order was placed, they still could not give me any idea when the machine would
show up, and said they were still working on orders placed in July. How does a
place like that stay in business?

John

I will tell you this about Carillon - they still cannot supply a PC in a timely
fashion (as in 30 days from the day you ordered it). I've never heard anyone
say anything bad about their machines once they were able to get one, but I
(literally today) just cancelled my order with them, as four weeks after my
order was placed, they still could not give me any idea when the machine would
show up, and said they were still working on orders placed in July. How does a
place like that stay in business?

John

knowing and building computers is a skill that grows and sticks with
you over time. it's not like your knowledge base becomes irrelevant
after three years like you are suggesting.

as fast as computers change, it's also pretty slow. and things don't
all change at once. recently, it was s-ata drives that got a
foothold. now people are getting comfortable with them. then 64-bit
cpu's will be the new thing to absorb.

as i suggested earlier, it depends on the person. and my feeling is
that the computer is the hub of the modern studio. it's like the old
days of the 2" 24 track machine. any self-respecting engineer "back
in the day" would have gotten around to knowing how to align tapes
using tones, and also the whole nanoweb 'thang.

on a specific note, i'm amazed at how much you know about analog
circuitry, but then got seemingly freaked-out and confused by the
prospect of buying a little drum machine for a metronome...an object
that seems as obvious a toaster oven to me.

people's brains have different strengths. you have a strength with
analog ciruits, but an aversion to digital assimilation. i'm the
opposite in many ways.

it's totally worth getting over the hump on the whole computer thing.
as far as chipset compatibility, that's no big deal. in my latest
build, i contacted the sound card manufacturer to find out chipsets
they liked. and then looked around on the web newsgroups about what
people were using, what the successes were. you just have to find
someone who got it right, and then copy their homework.

there are many newsgroups on the web that spend lots of time on
computer configurations.

in any event, a motherboard is typically $100 or less, so it's not a
big deal to experiment with this stuff. in fact, you could buy 5
motherboards and throw a dart at them. one of them will likely work,
and you'll still likely be ahead cost-wise compared to buying a
"custom" daw.

I'll state this: NO "custom daw" builder creates their own ram, cpu,
mobo, hard drives, or operating systems. all they do is find out
configurations that work, and then sell them, often adding in
noise-reduction considerations and perhaps a custom case (big deal).
in fact, many "daw builders" sell their daw packaged with a
soundcard/software. they don't want to risk saying "our computer will
work with any hardware/software combo" and the leave themselves open
to complaints when a system they sell meets up against an unfriendly
match-up.

We all have biases. I think you are biased against learning
computers. I'm biased against wasting time learning how to mod an
Ocktava mk-012, when you could just go out and buy a real small-d
condenser like a km-184 or a Schoeps and be done with it. But again,
that's reflecting my bias.

knowing and building computers is a skill that grows and sticks with
you over time. it's not like your knowledge base becomes irrelevant
after three years like you are suggesting.

as fast as computers change, it's also pretty slow. and things don't
all change at once. recently, it was s-ata drives that got a
foothold. now people are getting comfortable with them. then 64-bit
cpu's will be the new thing to absorb.

as i suggested earlier, it depends on the person. and my feeling is
that the computer is the hub of the modern studio. it's like the old
days of the 2" 24 track machine. any self-respecting engineer "back
in the day" would have gotten around to knowing how to align tapes
using tones, and also the whole nanoweb 'thang.

on a specific note, i'm amazed at how much you know about analog
circuitry, but then got seemingly freaked-out and confused by the
prospect of buying a little drum machine for a metronome...an object
that seems as obvious a toaster oven to me.

people's brains have different strengths. you have a strength with
analog ciruits, but an aversion to digital assimilation. i'm the
opposite in many ways.

it's totally worth getting over the hump on the whole computer thing.
as far as chipset compatibility, that's no big deal. in my latest
build, i contacted the sound card manufacturer to find out chipsets
they liked. and then looked around on the web newsgroups about what
people were using, what the successes were. you just have to find
someone who got it right, and then copy their homework.

there are many newsgroups on the web that spend lots of time on
computer configurations.

in any event, a motherboard is typically $100 or less, so it's not a
big deal to experiment with this stuff. in fact, you could buy 5
motherboards and throw a dart at them. one of them will likely work,
and you'll still likely be ahead cost-wise compared to buying a
"custom" daw.

I'll state this: NO "custom daw" builder creates their own ram, cpu,
mobo, hard drives, or operating systems. all they do is find out
configurations that work, and then sell them, often adding in
noise-reduction considerations and perhaps a custom case (big deal).
in fact, many "daw builders" sell their daw packaged with a
soundcard/software. they don't want to risk saying "our computer will
work with any hardware/software combo" and the leave themselves open
to complaints when a system they sell meets up against an unfriendly
match-up.

We all have biases. I think you are biased against learning
computers. I'm biased against wasting time learning how to mod an
Ocktava mk-012, when you could just go out and buy a real small-d
condenser like a km-184 or a Schoeps and be done with it. But again,
that's reflecting my bias.

"xy" wrote in message
m...
knowing and building computers is a skill that grows and sticks with
you over time. it's not like your knowledge base becomes irrelevant
after three years like you are suggesting.

as fast as computers change, it's also pretty slow. and things don't
all change at once. recently, it was s-ata drives that got a
foothold. now people are getting comfortable with them. then 64-bit
cpu's will be the new thing to absorb.

as i suggested earlier, it depends on the person. and my feeling is
that the computer is the hub of the modern studio. it's like the old
days of the 2" 24 track machine. any self-respecting engineer "back
in the day" would have gotten around to knowing how to align tapes
using tones, and also the whole nanoweb 'thang.

on a specific note, i'm amazed at how much you know about analog
circuitry, but then got seemingly freaked-out and confused by the
prospect of buying a little drum machine for a metronome...an object
that seems as obvious a toaster oven to me.

people's brains have different strengths. you have a strength with
analog ciruits, but an aversion to digital assimilation. i'm the
opposite in many ways.

it's totally worth getting over the hump on the whole computer thing.
as far as chipset compatibility, that's no big deal. in my latest
build, i contacted the sound card manufacturer to find out chipsets
they liked. and then looked around on the web newsgroups about what
people were using, what the successes were. you just have to find
someone who got it right, and then copy their homework.

there are many newsgroups on the web that spend lots of time on
computer configurations.

in any event, a motherboard is typically $100 or less, so it's not a
big deal to experiment with this stuff. in fact, you could buy 5
motherboards and throw a dart at them. one of them will likely work,
and you'll still likely be ahead cost-wise compared to buying a
"custom" daw.

I'll state this: NO "custom daw" builder creates their own ram, cpu,
mobo, hard drives, or operating systems. all they do is find out
configurations that work, and then sell them, often adding in
noise-reduction considerations and perhaps a custom case (big deal).
in fact, many "daw builders" sell their daw packaged with a
soundcard/software. they don't want to risk saying "our computer will
work with any hardware/software combo" and the leave themselves open
to complaints when a system they sell meets up against an unfriendly
match-up.

We all have biases. I think you are biased against learning
computers. I'm biased against wasting time learning how to mod an
Ocktava mk-012, when you could just go out and buy a real small-d
condenser like a km-184 or a Schoeps and be done with it. But again,
that's reflecting my bias.


This is exactly how I feel about the dinosaurs holding on to the analog
debate.

It is over gentlemen. Stop trying to fix your old analog gear that keeps
breaking down and go digital already.

Sheesh.

*Where's the bunker?*


--

-Hev
find me he
www.michaelspringer.com

"xy" wrote in message
m...
knowing and building computers is a skill that grows and sticks with
you over time. it's not like your knowledge base becomes irrelevant
after three years like you are suggesting.

as fast as computers change, it's also pretty slow. and things don't
all change at once. recently, it was s-ata drives that got a
foothold. now people are getting comfortable with them. then 64-bit
cpu's will be the new thing to absorb.

as i suggested earlier, it depends on the person. and my feeling is
that the computer is the hub of the modern studio. it's like the old
days of the 2" 24 track machine. any self-respecting engineer "back
in the day" would have gotten around to knowing how to align tapes
using tones, and also the whole nanoweb 'thang.

on a specific note, i'm amazed at how much you know about analog
circuitry, but then got seemingly freaked-out and confused by the
prospect of buying a little drum machine for a metronome...an object
that seems as obvious a toaster oven to me.

people's brains have different strengths. you have a strength with
analog ciruits, but an aversion to digital assimilation. i'm the
opposite in many ways.

it's totally worth getting over the hump on the whole computer thing.
as far as chipset compatibility, that's no big deal. in my latest
build, i contacted the sound card manufacturer to find out chipsets
they liked. and then looked around on the web newsgroups about what
people were using, what the successes were. you just have to find
someone who got it right, and then copy their homework.

there are many newsgroups on the web that spend lots of time on
computer configurations.

in any event, a motherboard is typically $100 or less, so it's not a
big deal to experiment with this stuff. in fact, you could buy 5
motherboards and throw a dart at them. one of them will likely work,
and you'll still likely be ahead cost-wise compared to buying a
"custom" daw.

I'll state this: NO "custom daw" builder creates their own ram, cpu,
mobo, hard drives, or operating systems. all they do is find out
configurations that work, and then sell them, often adding in
noise-reduction considerations and perhaps a custom case (big deal).
in fact, many "daw builders" sell their daw packaged with a
soundcard/software. they don't want to risk saying "our computer will
work with any hardware/software combo" and the leave themselves open
to complaints when a system they sell meets up against an unfriendly
match-up.

We all have biases. I think you are biased against learning
computers. I'm biased against wasting time learning how to mod an
Ocktava mk-012, when you could just go out and buy a real small-d
condenser like a km-184 or a Schoeps and be done with it. But again,
that's reflecting my bias.


This is exactly how I feel about the dinosaurs holding on to the analog
debate.

It is over gentlemen. Stop trying to fix your old analog gear that keeps
breaking down and go digital already.

Sheesh.

*Where's the bunker?*


--

-Hev
find me he
www.michaelspringer.com

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1096975353k@trad...

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

In my case it's not so much about being a control freak -- more like
exercising some self-defence. Leaving equipment decisions up to others
has sometimes left me in a bad spot, so I prefer to make the investment
of time in pre-purchase research. Sometimes that means having to learn
how some stuff works so I can decide whether it's an asset or a
liability.

It isn't about saving money (especially when you consider the value of
the time I spend learning). It's about making sure all the parts will
play nicely together in *my* particular situation, as opposed to a
generalized picture of a generic target user.



If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash.

Right. Tonight I had to choose between two motherboards for a new rig,
and couldn't find enough data to support a well reasoned argument for
either one over the other. I flipped a coin, knowing that if the one I
choose doesn't work, I can always sell it at a small loss and just get
the other one.

There's no way for a third-party to anticipate exactly how I'm going to
use my machine, so there's an inherent risk of incompatibilities anyway
(like the system works fine until I plug in my shuttle controller which
causes the keyboard to produce only W's no matter which key you press).

There's a certain amount of risk either way. These days I put the money
on my choices over those of others ONLY because my batting average is
better (so far, the day ain't over yet). Knock wood.



If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.

My experience to date is with corporate IT types and computer store
customizers rather than audio-specific computer builders, but I haven't
had the good fortune to encounter people who draw good conclusions.
Many of their firmly-held beliefs are based on some pretty specious
logic. Maybe the people who build audio computers are better.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1096975353k@trad...

But I understand that some people just like the feeling of control (as
well as the feeling of not giving someone else money they can keep for
themselves).

In my case it's not so much about being a control freak -- more like
exercising some self-defence. Leaving equipment decisions up to others
has sometimes left me in a bad spot, so I prefer to make the investment
of time in pre-purchase research. Sometimes that means having to learn
how some stuff works so I can decide whether it's an asset or a
liability.

It isn't about saving money (especially when you consider the value of
the time I spend learning). It's about making sure all the parts will
play nicely together in *my* particular situation, as opposed to a
generalized picture of a generic target user.



If you aren't really committed to doing the research and, more
important, trusting that what you conclude from that research will be
valid (or be willing to do it again if you're wrong) you can waste a
lot of time and some cash.

Right. Tonight I had to choose between two motherboards for a new rig,
and couldn't find enough data to support a well reasoned argument for
either one over the other. I flipped a coin, knowing that if the one I
choose doesn't work, I can always sell it at a small loss and just get
the other one.

There's no way for a third-party to anticipate exactly how I'm going to
use my machine, so there's an inherent risk of incompatibilities anyway
(like the system works fine until I plug in my shuttle controller which
causes the keyboard to produce only W's no matter which key you press).

There's a certain amount of risk either way. These days I put the money
on my choices over those of others ONLY because my batting average is
better (so far, the day ain't over yet). Knock wood.



If you're a full time builder, you keep up with these things and know
which motherboard manufacturers use which chipsets, which sound cards
work best with which chips (or more important, which combinations
should be avoided) and you'll have some resources for components
developed so that you don't have to spend a couple of weeks searching
web sites for exactly what you want and for a really good price.

My experience to date is with corporate IT types and computer store
customizers rather than audio-specific computer builders, but I haven't
had the good fortune to encounter people who draw good conclusions.
Many of their firmly-held beliefs are based on some pretty specious
logic. Maybe the people who build audio computers are better.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Hev wrote:

This is exactly how I feel about the dinosaurs holding on to the analog
debate.

It is over gentlemen. Stop trying to fix your old analog gear that keeps
breaking down and go digital already.

As long as it still sounds good, and as long as I can bill it, I'm keeping
it running.

When I can't bill it, it's out the door in an instant.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

This is exactly how I feel about the dinosaurs holding on to the analog
debate.

It is over gentlemen. Stop trying to fix your old analog gear that keeps
breaking down and go digital already.

So I can replace my digital gear when it breaks? I guess that's the
way of the world now.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

knowing and building computers is a skill that grows and sticks with
you over time. it's not like your knowledge base becomes irrelevant
after three years like you are suggesting.

Like any skill, you lose it if you don't use it frequently. If you
keep up with computer updates (both hardware and software) every few
months, those skills probably stick with you, you continue to learn
new terms and interfaces, and and if you're not too old, you might
remember what you did three years ago in case you run into a three
year old problem.

But if you're like me, leaving the computer alone until something
actually breaks (usually attributed to a piece of hardware). - I
replaced a power supply once after troubleshooting it with an ANALOG
voltmeter, but had to ask the experienced computer builders here how
to bypass the soft power switch so I could isolate the problem to the
power supply rather than the motherboard or wiring. Thanks to whoever
provided that info.

as fast as computers change, it's also pretty slow. and things don't
all change at once. recently, it was s-ata drives that got a
foothold. now people are getting comfortable with them. then 64-bit
cpu's will be the new thing to absorb.

I'm still using IDE drives, not even any USB or Firewire drives. I
hope I'll be able to continue to buy them for a few more years. If I
bought an SATA drive, I'd have to buy an interface card for it, and
install a driver for that card. Why bother? It wouldn't give me any
better performance than I need.

as i suggested earlier, it depends on the person. and my feeling is
that the computer is the hub of the modern studio. it's like the old
days of the 2" 24 track machine. any self-respecting engineer "back
in the day" would have gotten around to knowing how to align tapes
using tones, and also the whole nanoweb 'thang.

Right, but this is something you can see and measure. You don't have
to take it on faith that if you re-install the operating system or get
a new driver, it will fix the problem. It's a different way of
working, and those of us who grew up solving problems rather than
disposing of the piece with the problem and replacing it, possibly
requiring a string of other changes, it's a hard concept to swallow.

on a specific note, i'm amazed at how much you know about analog
circuitry, but then got seemingly freaked-out and confused by the
prospect of buying a little drum machine for a metronome...an object
that seems as obvious a toaster oven to me.

No problem with buying one - anyone can do that. But when I only need
to use it a couple of times a year, I want to be sure that it's one
that I can just turn on, set the tempo, and it'll play. I don't want
to have to remember how to call up a program.

it's totally worth getting over the hump on the whole computer thing.
as far as chipset compatibility, that's no big deal. in my latest
build, i contacted the sound card manufacturer to find out chipsets
they liked. and then looked around on the web newsgroups about what
people were using, what the successes were. you just have to find
someone who got it right, and then copy their homework.

That's more than I want to know. I'd like to let someone else worry
about that and just buy what works. Then, if something goes wrong,
I'll have someone to go back to who knows exactly the configuration of
my computer and can suggest a troubleshooting path.

there are many newsgroups on the web that spend lots of time on
computer configurations.

So, let them. There are people who enjoy spending time on their
computers and discussing what they do with others of the same bent. If
I went to one of those newsgroups for info, I'd be like those who post
here who write "I have a Behringer mixer and a sound card and I want
to record my guitar but I don't get any sound."

in any event, a motherboard is typically $100 or less, so it's not a
big deal to experiment with this stuff. in fact, you could buy 5
motherboards and throw a dart at them. one of them will likely work,
and you'll still likely be ahead cost-wise compared to buying a
"custom" daw.

You don't learn anything by throwing darts.

I'll state this: NO "custom daw" builder creates their own ram, cpu,
mobo, hard drives, or operating systems. all they do is find out
configurations that work, and then sell them, often adding in
noise-reduction considerations and perhaps a custom case (big deal).

Exactly. And that knowledge is worth paying for. I could probably find
a web site that would tell me how to take out someone's appendix, but
I wouldn't do it.

in fact, many "daw builders" sell their daw packaged with a
soundcard/software. they don't want to risk saying "our computer will
work with any hardware/software combo" and the leave themselves open
to complaints when a system they sell meets up against an unfriendly
match-up.

That's good, too. I can decide what software I want to run, what level
of quality I want from the audio interface, how I want to mount my
computer (which affects the amount of mechanical noise reduction
necessary) and say "go to it." There are some builders who still don't
get it right, but many do. I believe that may have been the intent of
the post that started this tread - who's relliable.

We all have biases. I think you are biased against learning
computers.

I'm not biased against learning anything, but I don't want to spend
time learning something that I'll only need to know infrequently. I'd
love to understand how to troubleshoot my car, but just how often
would I have to do it? Back when they had distributor points and
carburetors, you could actually make it work better by adjusting
things and replacing parts when they wore out. Today the computer
forces it to work pretty well no matter what goes wrong (unless it's
the computer). I did eventaually find the oil filter so I change that
myself, but that's about all I can do. I feel the same way about
computers.

I'm biased against wasting time learning how to mod an
Ocktava mk-012, when you could just go out and buy a real small-d
condenser like a km-184 or a Schoeps and be done with it. But again,
that's reflecting my bias.

You're not learning how to modify a microphone by following the
instructions in an article. The author already learned that so you
don't have to. But what you learn by doing the modification is how to
safely disassemble, handle, and solder small stuff, and perhaps do
some troubleshooting, looking for bad solder joints, missed
connections, or components that have a polarity that you may have
installed backwards. You can transfer those skills to things like
fixing a cable that suddenly started buzzing. Or you could just go out
and buy another cable.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo