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  #41   Report Post  
Pooh Bear
 
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lex wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
lex wrote:

Hi, I've been playing in a restaurant that sometimes holds 80 people.
When there are around 30 or less I have no problems, however when it's
a packed house I'm drowned out by the talking to the point where I can
barely hear myself play.


Hi Lex, this is an example where it's actually a good idea to crosspost to
aapls too.

You'll see my response there. Sadly those in rap won't.

Graham


I've never tried to crosspost. So this will make it so this same exact
thread is shown there?


Yes. The same posts will appear in both groups. This only recommended when the
subject is on-topic for both ( or more ) groups.

Ok, how can I do that?


Ohhh - possibly since you're using google groups you may not be able to !

Do you have an ISP with a news server ? Such as news.myisp.com ?

If so - use a proper newsreader - or even - dare I say it even Outlost Express.
I use the newsgroups function in Netscape. I happen to like its format.

Google groups is a truly dreadful way to access Usenet.

Graham


  #42   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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"lex" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. I remember getting something like this
with my Pendulum Preamp. Either the preamp is already designed for
this or this little adapter does the trick. So it looks like I'll be
able to use the Pendulum and not have to get a DI box.

Check it out:
http://www.pendulumaudio.com/SPS-1.html

Anyway, when I tried the pickup I just went straight into the console.
I had given up on the pickup before bringing in my pendulum preamp to
use with the mics. Someone asked about the quality of the Pendulum.
The quality is amazing. It's my favorite piece I own, more so than any
mics or other things I own. My guitar is my baby though.

My pickup is a Fishman Rare Earth. It's supposed to sound good. I
think I will try it with the Pendulum and see if that does it.


I suspect you will be astonished at how good it sounds. I think the one
Renbourn was using when I worked with him a couple of weeks ago was a
Fishman Rare Earth as well, and it's about as good as I've heard a pickup
get. The Pendulum should do a good job of terminating it.

I tried using just one mic on the guitar and one for voice yesterday.
I also flew the speakers up as far as they would go (6 ft). The brand
of the console is Crate Audio.


If the speakers are also Crate then that's another part of your problem.
Their speakers don't have particularly flat frequency responses, and the
peaks add to the feedback problem.

Peace,
Paul


  #44   Report Post  
Phil Allison
 
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"Mike Rivers"


It must be a psychoacoustical effect. g



** That seems to be misspelled - it should be "psycho-acoustical ".

The first word being the operative one.





............ Phil


  #46   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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In article writes:

I tend to like to run amps with the attenuators down some so you can get a 'hot
mix' on the desk.


It depends on the mixer, and what else it's feeding, if anything,
other than a power amplifier. For example, if I'm sending the mixer
output to my Jukebox 3 for recording and also to a PA system, I don't
want to put too much signal into the Jukebox because it doesn't have
an input attenuator. So I'll set the gain so I'll have plenty of
headroom there and then make it up at the power amp. So what if the PA
has an extra 2 dB of noise that I _might_ be able to better if I ran
the mixer output hotter. I'd rather not have my recording clipped on
peaks if I can make things work satisfactorily all around.

Trying to
mix with the led ladders causing clipping when they're only 'half way up' is
nonsence.


Some mixers sound better that way. Besides, why worry about where the
meters are if they're running low? The important thing is that they
tell you that you have plenty of room in the mixer before clipping.

I'm not saying that there's one and only one right way to do it.
There's an optimum way if everything is calibrated to the same
reference level, but you rarely have that even if you own all the
equipment. All the rest of the time, you make the best compromise all
around.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #47   Report Post  
Adrian Tuddenham
 
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Agent 86 wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:41:33 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:

Nope. Problem: Lousy gig. Don't you realize that all of those people are
drowning you out because they're there to eat dinner and talk, not to
listen to you, and particularly not to listen to your sound system feed
back.


Welcome to the real world.


If the pay is good, leave your ego in the parking lot and accept the
fact that you're acoustic wallpaper. Play songs that you're still learning
or practice hot guitar riffs. They'll never notice when you make a
mistake. But stay tuned to your audience. When you see that they're
actually listening, pull out your best material, and be sure to sell them
CDs before they leave.


Good advice. I'll add keep an eye out for good looking women on blind
dates with losers or assholes. Knowing which songs to play, and when can
turn a nowhere gig into a fountain of opportunity, especially if you're
single.


Do you really want to go out with women who date losers and assholes.?

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
  #48   Report Post  
NoName
 
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Speakers would be the first place to start (as already mentioned taking
them off the ground will make a difference)

Also, put them at the end of the room instead of the middle - then
people can choose to sit near or not - that way the people who want to
chat over their meal can get a seat away from the sound, and not fight
with it, and those who want to listen can get close, and will be
quieter (in an ideal world - it won't work perfectly,but it will help)

Position yourself out of direct throw range of the speakers - ie behind
them. From what you say, the music isn't over bassy, which is the
frequency most prevalent from behind a PA due to the spherical
dispersion. Other frequencies have a more directional dispersion.

If you can't do any of that, work out which mic it is that is causing
the problem (I would suspect the Shure), by deliberately inducing
feedback on one mic only (do it during a break, when the place is full
- you don't need to push to full howl round, just to the point it
starts to build, and note which mic causes most)

If it is the Shure, you could get a directional muffler for it like the
ones tv or film engineers use - they usually set you back around =A3100
- =A3250 for a good one.

Or tune the room (either spectral analysis if you're a sound gorilla
like me, or by ear if you are a good musician). Find the frequencies
that cause the feedback (it will usually be one main frequency, with a
1st order harmonic either side) which reacts to the room acoustics
badly - I've seen rooms with more, but they tend to be stone barns with
lots of fixed furnishing, and odd shapes. Then set up a compressor with
side chain eq between your mixer and amp to keep that frequency under
control.

Remember as well that tube amps actually add a certain amount of
distortion (usually lots of 2nd order harmonic which sounds nice - the
cause of the "warm" sound tube amp users like), but it is still a form
of harmonic distortion, and will induce feedback more readily than a
more linear amplification without the distortion.

Or you could get a feedback destroyer - which is essentially the above
idea, but with several compressors linked each to a parametric eq
(Behringer do one that works fairly well. Expect to take a hit on sound
quality, but only when necessary). They work well, and have the benefit
of an auto listen and tune mode (which much to my suprise also works
well)

If you're in the UK, I have one of the above Behringers that I'm
selling (don't do band work anymore, and it's surplus to requirements -
well looked after though, and I have the manuals, and probably the
original box somewhere). If you're interested (I'll probably want
about =A340ish for it), email me at . We can do
it through ebay or something (I'm going to list it anyway, but would be
happy not to have to...Shameless selling attempt over, and my apologies
to all for the fact that this ng is an info node, and not a
marketplace...:-) )

Also, if you want to get in touch at the email above, I am happy to
give you a more in depth analysis of the room and setup (we can do it
on here, but I'm not very regular in my newsgroup habits, and it will
probably take a good few answered questions to nail it fully. I can
save the mails, and post them as a faq if there is interest).

Feedback is a swine though. I've been in that position often enough
that I'll happily help anyone as much as I can (definetly comes under
the heading of my boy scout good deed for the day...:-) - the fewer
tarnished Karma's from feedback the better - I used to end up
apologising to everybody for days after a bad run in with howlround,
because it made me really snappy and grumpy until I'd sorted it -
usually got lots of noise from the bands too who would spend days
rubbing in the fact that it was them who had the right to grump, as it
was my job to solve those problems, and having me grump about them
wasn't fair...:-)

Anyway, hope this helps some.

Leo.

  #49   Report Post  
NoName
 
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BTW - with ref to posts on netiquette, can someone tell me how my posts
are coming out on nntp. I'm using google groups to post, as my net
connection is slow, and I don't have to d/l on google. I will go back
to nntp if the way google posts replies gets up anyone's nose though
(get broadband finally next month anyway and I'll go back to using nntp
then, but there seem to be some fairly *ahem* strong views on proper
netiquette here. Would prefer not to offend anyone between now and 27th
july.)

Cheers

Leo

  #50   Report Post  
NoName
 
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Sorry. email address got half deleted. Liking google groups less and
less....

Email is "thealternatives @ gmail.com" take out the spaces before and
after the @ obviously. I suspect google are *keeping* me safe from spam
or somesuch. Doesn't work of course, as the spammers use the nntp
header anyway...

Leo



  #51   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
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NoName wrote:

BTW - with ref to posts on netiquette, can someone tell me how my posts
are coming out on nntp. I'm using google groups to post


When using a web based interface then copy the relevant quote to
notepad, insert quote prefix as relevant and write the follow up in
notepad, select all, copy, paste to web interface "reply text" window.
Do remember to use web interface "follow-up" function, do not just make
it a new post when you follow up. This because some proper usenet news
readers actually DO use message ID chaining to keep a thread together,
you would break that by simply making a new post with same subject
header.

Leo



Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
* The Vienna Copyright convention applies *
*******************************************
  #52   Report Post  
Leo
 
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Peter Larsen wrote:

When using a web based interface then copy the relevant quote to
notepad, insert quote prefix as relevant and write the follow up in
notepad, select all, copy, paste to web interface "reply text" window.
Do remember to use web interface "follow-up" function, do not just make
it a new post when you follow up. This because some proper usenet news
readers actually DO use message ID chaining to keep a thread together,
you would break that by simply making a new post with same subject
header.


Cheers for the info. Bit the bullet, and set up nntp though, as I know
my way round it, and can read offline (which I hadn't thought about when
I started using google - having a moment...:-)

Now to find out if Thunderbird posts properly...

Cheers

Leo
  #53   Report Post  
lex
 
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Paul Stamler wrote:
"lex" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. I remember getting something like this
with my Pendulum Preamp. Either the preamp is already designed for
this or this little adapter does the trick. So it looks like I'll be
able to use the Pendulum and not have to get a DI box.

Check it out:
http://www.pendulumaudio.com/SPS-1.html

Anyway, when I tried the pickup I just went straight into the console.
I had given up on the pickup before bringing in my pendulum preamp to
use with the mics. Someone asked about the quality of the Pendulum.
The quality is amazing. It's my favorite piece I own, more so than any
mics or other things I own. My guitar is my baby though.

My pickup is a Fishman Rare Earth. It's supposed to sound good. I
think I will try it with the Pendulum and see if that does it.


I suspect you will be astonished at how good it sounds. I think the one
Renbourn was using when I worked with him a couple of weeks ago was a
Fishman Rare Earth as well, and it's about as good as I've heard a pickup
get. The Pendulum should do a good job of terminating it.

I tried using just one mic on the guitar and one for voice yesterday.
I also flew the speakers up as far as they would go (6 ft). The brand
of the console is Crate Audio.


If the speakers are also Crate then that's another part of your problem.
Their speakers don't have particularly flat frequency responses, and the
peaks add to the feedback problem.

Peace,
Paul


I thought I'd post an update and some more solutions I stumbled upon.

I couldn't get the pickup working without lots of distortion/static
background noise. I tried it with the pendulum preamp. I knew it
couldn't be the pendulum so I examined the pickup and reread the
instructions. It says if there is distortion you should change the
battery. Thing is I've barely used the pickup so I never thought it
could be the onboard batteries. This battery is a 3V camera battery or
2 1.5V's stacked.

Well, I changed the battery and the Pickup came alive.

Lesson: Never trust the onboard battery that came with your gadget.
Your sound is only as good as the weakest link... it really rings true
right about now. Can't wait to use it now... it's sounding so great
now.

  #55   Report Post  
Joe Kesselman
 
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lex wrote:
Lesson: Never trust the onboard battery that came with your gadget.


Secondary lesson: If doing a live gig with anything that uses batteries,
replace batteries before starting the performance, every time. Cheap
insurance against having it go bad in mid-show.


  #56   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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"Joe Kesselman" wrote in message
...
lex wrote:
Lesson: Never trust the onboard battery that came with your gadget.


Secondary lesson: If doing a live gig with anything that uses batteries,
replace batteries before starting the performance, every time. Cheap
insurance against having it go bad in mid-show.


Last week my tuner crapped out at the top of the evening's gig. Miraculously
the guitars behaved themselves all night.

The new 9V battery I'd just put in measured 6.72V, no load, and 6.62V under
load.

Tertiary lesson: when replacing batteries, put the new ones on the voltmeter
first.

Peace,
Paul


  #57   Report Post  
lex
 
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Paul Stamler wrote:
"Joe Kesselman" wrote in message
...
lex wrote:
Lesson: Never trust the onboard battery that came with your gadget.


Secondary lesson: If doing a live gig with anything that uses batteries,
replace batteries before starting the performance, every time. Cheap
insurance against having it go bad in mid-show.


Last week my tuner crapped out at the top of the evening's gig. Miraculously
the guitars behaved themselves all night.

The new 9V battery I'd just put in measured 6.72V, no load, and 6.62V under
load.

Tertiary lesson: when replacing batteries, put the new ones on the voltmeter
first.

Peace,
Paul


I tried the pickup through the pendulum preamp yesterday. I had the
sm58 and the pickup going through the preamp on the 2 separate
channels. I then monitored with headphones plugged into the preamp.

When I was listening through the headphones I got a strange buzz.
Strangely I could avoid some buzz simply by turning the guitar or
swiveling my position/facing. I faced north I got lots of buzz. I
faced west no buzz.??? It's too bad I have to face north to present
myself to the audience. I moved a little there or a little here I
could change the volume and amount of buzz.

Any ideas on what could be causing this buzz? It was so distracting
I couldn't monitor with headphones in the end. Turning down the pickup
gain revealed it was to do with the pickup and not the vocal mic.

I don't think it's the headphones because I use them all the time and
have never encountered this problem before.

I thought maybe the adapter on the end of the jack was providing a bad
connection. I will try a different adapter today. I thought also
maybe some magnetic fields caused by something in the restaurant
ceiling was the culprit. I have no idea what it is.

I tried the ground lift switch on the pickup and that did nothing at
all. I tried everything I could on the preamp.

Oddly enough, I got no buzz at all through the house speakers. Those
are also made by Crate Audio by the way.

So it's something to do with the preamp, pickup, headphones, and house.
That's what I've narrowed it down to so far.

  #58   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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lex wrote:

When I was listening through the headphones I got a strange buzz.
Strangely I could avoid some buzz simply by turning the guitar or
swiveling my position/facing. I faced north I got lots of buzz. I
faced west no buzz.??? It's too bad I have to face north to present
myself to the audience. I moved a little there or a little here I
could change the volume and amount of buzz.


This is the pickup nature. High-Z unbalanced connections are always
sensitive to RF noise issues. Look for nearby noise sources like CRTs,
TV sets, light dimmers, touch lamps, and neon signs.

Oddly enough, I got no buzz at all through the house speakers. Those
are also made by Crate Audio by the way.


At the same location or a different location?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #59   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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In article om writes:

I tried the pickup through the pendulum preamp yesterday. I had the
sm58 and the pickup going through the preamp on the 2 separate
channels. I then monitored with headphones plugged into the preamp.

When I was listening through the headphones I got a strange buzz.
Strangely I could avoid some buzz simply by turning the guitar or
swiveling my position/facing.


This is typical of electromagnetic pickups. Where were you when you
tried this experiment? If you were near a computer, turn off the
monitor. If you were in a room with a light dimmer, turn off the
lights.

I faced north I got lots of buzz. I
faced west no buzz.??? It's too bad I have to face north to present
myself to the audience. I moved a little there or a little here I
could change the volume and amount of buzz.


There's nothing sacred about facing North, it's just where the
hum-producing fields are most strongly aligned with your pickup in the
particular place where you tried it. It's quite likely to be a
different direction in another location, or it may not occur at all.

Any ideas on what could be causing this buzz? It was so distracting
I couldn't monitor with headphones in the end. Turning down the pickup
gain revealed it was to do with the pickup and not the vocal mic.


Piezoelectric pickups are less susceptible to this, as are humbucking
pickups (hence the name). But the problem is that an electromagnetic
field is present near your pickup. You need to find the source of that
field and either remove it (like turning off a light on a dimmer,
turning off a CRT monitor, turning off your cell phone that's lying on
the table) or move to a location where that electromagnetic field
doesn't reach. Building a shielded room in which to practice your
guitar while listening on headphones is possible, but not practical.

maybe some magnetic fields caused by something in the restaurant
ceiling was the culprit. I have no idea what it is.


Ah, so you were in the location where you actually have to use this
rig. Well, you'll just have to do some detective work. Try turning
things off, or walking around.

Oddly enough, I got no buzz at all through the house speakers. Those
are also made by Crate Audio by the way.


Well, if you were to plug the output of the preamp into whatever is
feeding those speakers, you'd get teh buzz. The reason why you don't
get the buzz there is because there's no pickup to pick up the
interfering electromagnetic field.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #61   Report Post  
lex
 
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Ron(UK) wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
In article om writes:


I tried the pickup through the pendulum preamp yesterday. I had the
sm58 and the pickup going through the preamp on the 2 separate
channels. I then monitored with headphones plugged into the preamp.

When I was listening through the headphones I got a strange buzz.
Strangely I could avoid some buzz simply by turning the guitar or
swiveling my position/facing.



This is typical of electromagnetic pickups. Where were you when you
tried this experiment? If you were near a computer, turn off the
monitor. If you were in a room with a light dimmer, turn off the
lights.


I faced north I got lots of buzz. I
faced west no buzz.??? It's too bad I have to face north to present
myself to the audience. I moved a little there or a little here I
could change the volume and amount of buzz.


snip


Earthing the strings to signal ground might help (not easy on an
acoustic guitar I know) also check for induction based hearing loops in
the restaurant.

Ron(UK)

--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com


Yeah, it has to be a magnetic field, nothing else makes sense. I
looked around and I can't figure out what is creating it though. There
are no cell phones near, there are the speakers of course a few feet in
front. I move away from them and the field gets even stronger so I
don't think that's it. I can't remember, but I think I turned them off
and it was still there.

There is an air conditioning system, dimmers in lights above me. If
you turn off the lights the field should be gone though, shouldn't it?
We turned off the lights and it was still there. I don't know...
Perhaps the air conditioning... I think I'll just have to come in
early some time and find a new area to play in.

I told the owners about a distributed sound system. They want to keep
what they have and perhaps do a rudimentary version. For example,
instead of an elaborate job of mounting speakers in ceiling or walls;
something where the speakers are on stands around the walls of the
restaurant. They aren't exactly rolling in dough, and the place just
opened a few months ago. They are probably paying back loans and such.
I think they would be willing to try a rudimentary system. I think
this should work, it will get the speakers away from the stage at
least. I just have to figure out where exactly, and how many speakers
they need for a good balance.

Perhaps they should hire an acoustician to survey the place and give
some advice as to placement and types of speakers.

In the meantime I'm going to do a little research of my own. Anybody
know some good sites for this?

  #62   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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"lex" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yeah, it has to be a magnetic field, nothing else makes sense. I
looked around and I can't figure out what is creating it though. There
are no cell phones near, there are the speakers of course a few feet in
front. I move away from them and the field gets even stronger so I
don't think that's it. I can't remember, but I think I turned them off
and it was still there.

There is an air conditioning system, dimmers in lights above me. If
you turn off the lights the field should be gone though, shouldn't it?
We turned off the lights and it was still there. I don't know...
Perhaps the air conditioning... I think I'll just have to come in
early some time and find a new area to play in.


Most likely source is a dimmer someplace, and it doesn't have to be right
near you; at Focal Point electric guitars buzz when you face certain
directions on stage (one of them being out at the audience). The chief
engineer used a cheap guitar for a probe and discovered the culprit was a
small, cheap dimmer -- in the restaurant next door.

Other possibilities in your case include a utility transformer in the back
and a fluorescent light in the kitchen. If it's a buzz rather than a hum,
though, first suspect is a dimmer. Hums and buzzes are the curse of magnetic
pickups; perhaps a fancier one will have better humbucking coils. Or you may
have to rely on orientation to keep the hum down and ambient noise to hide
it.

I told the owners about a distributed sound system. They want to keep
what they have and perhaps do a rudimentary version. For example,
instead of an elaborate job of mounting speakers in ceiling or walls;
something where the speakers are on stands around the walls of the
restaurant. They aren't exactly rolling in dough, and the place just
opened a few months ago. They are probably paying back loans and such.
I think they would be willing to try a rudimentary system. I think
this should work, it will get the speakers away from the stage at
least. I just have to figure out where exactly, and how many speakers
they need for a good balance.


The trouble with rudimentary systems is that six crappy speakers will
probably sound worse than two decent speakers.

Perhaps they should hire an acoustician to survey the place and give
some advice as to placement and types of speakers.


They should, but they won't. Trust me on this one.

In the meantime I'm going to do a little research of my own. Anybody
know some good sites for this?


I suggest you order the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook; best single
resource on the subject. Way better than any website.

Peace,
Paul


  #65   Report Post  
Drily Lit Raga
 
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Ron(UK) wrote:

Earthing the strings to signal ground might help (not easy on an
acoustic guitar I know) also check for induction based hearing loops in
the restaurant.


What is an "induction based hearing loop"?



  #66   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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"Drily Lit Raga" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ron(UK) wrote:

Earthing the strings to signal ground might help (not easy on an
acoustic guitar I know) also check for induction based hearing loops in
the restaurant.


What is an "induction based hearing loop"?


Devices used to provide a signal to special hearing-aid receivers to assist
hearing-impaired listeners. They're mostly used in theatres; I haven't
noticed any at restaurants.

Peace,
Paul


  #67   Report Post  
Ron(UK)
 
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Paul Stamler wrote:
"Drily Lit Raga" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ron(UK) wrote:

Earthing the strings to signal ground might help (not easy on an
acoustic guitar I know) also check for induction based hearing loops in
the restaurant.


What is an "induction based hearing loop"?



Devices used to provide a signal to special hearing-aid receivers to assist
hearing-impaired listeners. They're mostly used in theatres; I haven't
noticed any at restaurants.

Peace,
Paul



They are becoming very common here in the UK, even in shops, filling
stations etc. They play havoc with guitars fitted with single coil
pickups, and high impedance microphones. Even the small portable ones
can radiate a filed of several metres.

Ron(UK)

--
www.lunevalleyaudio.com
  #72   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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In article writes:

What is an "induction based hearing loop"?


For the benefit of the deaf or hard of hearing. Here, it`s becoming
law that all premises where the public are served must eventually be
fitted with a hearing loop for the disabled - Deaf people do go to the
cinema and theatre, and buy groceries and fuel.


But what do they send to the loop? Does the clerk pick up a microphone
and talk (through the loop) to the customer? An induction loop is
designed to work with a hearing aid. If you're a customer, I'm a sales
clerk, and we're talking over a sale, I would expect that we're close
enough so that the hearing aid would work without an induction loop.

I can see it where a gas station is unattended outside and the
customer needs some help. There's often an intercom for this which is
hard enough for those of us with normal hearing to understand, but
it's not because of a lack of volume.

In a grocery store? Yeah, I guess it's important to hear that grocery
store music and announcements of what's on sale (which actually might
be of interest, but most people read the flyers).

I have nothing against the hearing-challanged, I just think some laws
to accommodate those with disabilities are kind of silly.

The program material - whether music or speech is usually 'collected' by
a microphone, fed into a powerful amplifier which is capable of driving
a very low impedance load, and hence into a loop of wire, often all
around the building. Theatres often have just a pair of mikes up in the
ceiling somewhere.


Right. So pull out your guitar in a theater, plug it into an
amplifier, and the movie sound track comes out of the speaker. The
problem here isn't stray audio (that's another thread), it's a hum or
buzz. Unless there's a strong buzz being sent to the induction loop
(in which case the people with hearing aids would surely complain)
that can't be the problem here.

Believe me, if you're playing something like a Fender Strat or Tele with
single coil pickups in a room with an induction loop, you`ll experience
anything from buzzing, to uncontrollable feedback.


Can you explain why? Maybe feedback if you're feeding the loop with
your amplifier. But why buzzing?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #73   Report Post  
Adrian Tuddenham
 
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Mike Rivers wrote:

In article ron@
lunevalleyaudio.com writes:

What is an "induction based hearing loop"?


For the benefit of the deaf or hard of hearing. Here, it`s becoming
law that all premises where the public are served must eventually be
fitted with a hearing loop for the disabled - Deaf people do go to the
cinema and theatre, and buy groceries and fuel.


But what do they send to the loop? Does the clerk pick up a microphone
and talk (through the loop) to the customer? An induction loop is
designed to work with a hearing aid. If you're a customer, I'm a sales
clerk, and we're talking over a sale, I would expect that we're close
enough so that the hearing aid would work without an induction loop.


You seem to have missed the point of recent European disability
legislation. It's no longer there to help disabled people in a logical
way, it is there to make everyone and every business demonstrate that
they are doing *something*, even if that 'something' is completely
pointless and may actually make the situation worse.

That way, there is plenty of employment for 'trained' civil servants to
come around and check that the 'something; has been done.

When everyone has finally done whatever was specified, the people who
invent and enforce the laws and run the training courses will have
nothing to do, so they will invent another raft of idiotic regulations
and the costs of being seen to do something will ratchet-up even
further.

I am all in favour of helping disabled people, but we leap-frogged over
the basic and the difficult bits of that many years ago. The whole
thing has now become an expensive form-filling exercise.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
  #74   Report Post  
Ron(UK)
 
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Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:


What is an "induction based hearing loop"?



For the benefit of the deaf or hard of hearing. Here, it`s becoming
law that all premises where the public are served must eventually be
fitted with a hearing loop for the disabled - Deaf people do go to the
cinema and theatre, and buy groceries and fuel.



But what do they send to the loop? Does the clerk pick up a microphone
and talk (through the loop) to the customer?


Yep the mic is usually either built into the couter or on the back of
the portable induction loop

An induction loop is
designed to work with a hearing aid. If you're a customer, I'm a sales
clerk, and we're talking over a sale, I would expect that we're close
enough so that the hearing aid would work without an induction loop.


Maybe so, but regulations is regulations

I can see it where a gas station is unattended outside and the
customer needs some help. There's often an intercom for this which is
hard enough for those of us with normal hearing to understand, but
it's not because of a lack of volume.

In a grocery store? Yeah, I guess it's important to hear that grocery
store music and announcements of what's on sale (which actually might
be of interest, but most people read the flyers).


On the counter for the benefit of the hard of hearing, I dont think they
deliberately pipe the advertising through it

I have nothing against the hearing-challanged, I just think some laws
to accommodate those with disabilities are kind of silly.


Yep, I can agree with that in some cases.


The program material - whether music or speech is usually 'collected' by
a microphone, fed into a powerful amplifier which is capable of driving
a very low impedance load, and hence into a loop of wire, often all
around the building. Theatres often have just a pair of mikes up in the
ceiling somewhere.



Right. So pull out your guitar in a theater, plug it into an
amplifier, and the movie sound track comes out of the speaker. The
problem here isn't stray audio (that's another thread), it's a hum or
buzz. Unless there's a strong buzz being sent to the induction loop
(in which case the people with hearing aids would surely complain)
that can't be the problem here.


There is often a lot of extranious noise on induction loops, They are
generally very high gain systems. It`s probably not the problem in the
OP`s case, but still something to be aware of.


Believe me, if you're playing something like a Fender Strat or Tele with
single coil pickups in a room with an induction loop, you`ll experience
anything from buzzing, to uncontrollable feedback.



Can you explain why? Maybe feedback if you're feeding the loop with
your amplifier. But why buzzing?


Yep feedback, guitar picks up it`s own signal but it`s not feedback
from the strings, it`s oscillation, the same as when the gain is high
on the guitar and the pickups are responding to the field from the
speakers. As has been said before most single coil pickup guitars buzz
and fizz anyway, picking up the field from their own amplifier,
speakers, lights etc. and it`s usually quite directional, Any noise in
the induction loop can be introduced into the guitars sensitive pickups
quite easily.

Ron



  #75   Report Post  
 
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On 2005-06-24
said:
That year they build a traditional Georgia "dog trot" house which
has an entrance at either end a few steps up from the ground. They
were required to build a wheelchair ramp for it even though it
wasn't meant to be walked through by the visitors. That rapidly
became a Pargo ramp for the grounds crew who took great sport in
driving up the ramp, through the house, and trying to get up enough
speed to clear the steps on the other end. --

Hey that's about like a place downtown NEw Orleans where I see a set
of steps going into a skywalk system and no possibility of an elevator
there. GUess what gets you to the steps? YOu got it, a wheelchair
ramp.

tHen there's the places where my lady can go in fine, but if she
wishes to use the ladies' room independently it's nigh on impossible
with her wheelchair. sHE can't open the door and get herself through
it, then when she does she can't get to the sink.

Then there's a hospital where I volunteer regularly. THe wheelchair
accessible buttons are brailled, not the ones on the other end of the
elevator. Hmmm, awkward reading braille down near your belt.

GUess they figure all blind folks are in wheelchairs grin.

Maybe I should sue under ADA because I can't be hired as a truck
driver smirk




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



CON is the opposite of PRO - i.e. Congress and Progress


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On 2005-06-25
said:
I wrote:
awkward reading braille down near your belt.
GUess they figure all blind folks are in wheelchairs grin.

Sometimes when looking for a room on a hotel's web site, I'll check
the "senior" rate, and the only rooms they have at that rate are
handicap-accessable (the toilet is too high and the shower is too
low). And often they're only smoking rooms. I guess they figure all
us old folks are in wheelchairs and got there from smoking too much.

Hmmm, seen the opposite at motels where I might go, Ramada Inns etc.
now and then. Lady needs a wheelchasir accessible shower and high
seated commode with the grab bars so she can get her butt off it
again. Meanwhile I'm not going to get up and go outside to smoke
first thing, especially if they've left me one of those little coffee
makers grin.

Guess it depends on where you go, hotels and the higher end places
think seniors are all smokers and need wheelchair accomodation, drive
in motel type places think that wheelchair users will have a carekater
who's a nonsmoker.

Hmmm



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



"Applying computer technology is as simple as
finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw."
  #79   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Joe Kesselman wrote:

lex wrote:
Lesson: Never trust the onboard battery that came with your gadget.


Secondary lesson: If doing a live gig with anything that uses batteries,
replace batteries before starting the performance, every time. Cheap
insurance against having it go bad in mid-show.


Tertiary Lesson: I just replaced the litium 9 v in my Ibanez "Musician".
It powered the axe for a year and a half.

--
ha
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