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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work
because the player moves around too much. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? |
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#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
mcp6453 wrote:
What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work because the player moves around too much. I might not even spot the bass at all, since it's going to be leaking all over the place. And, for the most part the bluegrass folks don't care so much about definition or low end accuracy; tubbiness is fine. A lot of bluegrass folks wrap an SM-57 in a towel and jam it behind the bridge. Doesn't get any worse than that. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? If I had to mount something on the guitar, I'd probably use Paul Stamler's radio shack mike trick. But I bet you'd get way better results with an RE-20. Pull it back a few feet and it doesn't matter so much where the player is or if he's moving around. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
Mounting a mic on a guitar never gives very decent results, but the best always seems to be an omni lav just inside the soundhole. If you can manage to keep it above the top of the guitar but still out of the player's way, even better.
On the bass, if you really need it, an omni lav suspended in the bridge can be very good. Upmarket the dpa4060 series is excellent. Countryman is probably the most used here and excellent, and Bruce Bartlett who developed the little crown mini mics back in the day has his own line now which are very reasonably priced and do an excellent job. Some of Bruce's mics have a low frequency rolloff built into the preamp to compensate for suggested placements, so you have to take that into account with which mic you use and where you stick it. |
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#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:11:10 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
mcp6453 wrote: What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work because the player moves around too much. I might not even spot the bass at all, since it's going to be leaking all over the place. And, for the most part the bluegrass folks don't care so much about definition or low end accuracy; tubbiness is fine. A lot of bluegrass folks wrap an SM-57 in a towel and jam it behind the bridge. Doesn't get any worse than that. But if you do the same with a decent omni condenser mic like a Neumann KM 130 or an Oktava MC012 with the omni capsule, you can get really nice results. Here in St. Louis that's called the "Boris" trick after Boris Golynsky, who taught it to all of us. But you want to wrap the mic in foam, not a towel. And it *has* to be an omni; anything else gets way too boomy. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? If I had to mount something on the guitar, I'd probably use Paul Stamler's radio shack mike trick. Thanks for the mention, but it's really Martin Carthy's trick; I just reported it. I've never tried it on a Martin D-series guitar. Carthy used it on his 000-18. and I use it on my 00-18. But I bet you'd get way better results with an RE-20. Pull it back a few feet and it doesn't matter so much where the player is or if he's moving around. Yep. You can do that with an RE-15 too. Peace, Paul |
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
PStamler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:11:10 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote: mcp6453 wrote: What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work because the player moves around too much. I might not even spot the bass at all, since it's going to be leaking all over the place. And, for the most part the bluegrass folks don't care so much about definition or low end accuracy; tubbiness is fine. A lot of bluegrass folks wrap an SM-57 in a towel and jam it behind the bridge. Doesn't get any worse than that. But if you do the same with a decent omni condenser mic like a Neumann KM 130 or an Oktava MC012 with the omni capsule, you can get really nice results. Here in St. Louis that's called the "Boris" trick after Boris Golynsky, who taught it to all of us. But you want to wrap the mic in foam, not a towel. And it *has* to be an omni; anything else gets way too boomy. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? If I had to mount something on the guitar, I'd probably use Paul Stamler's radio shack mike trick. Thanks for the mention, but it's really Martin Carthy's trick; I just reported it. I've never tried it on a Martin D-series guitar. Carthy used it on his 000-18. and I use it on my 00-18. It works better IME with sensitive fingerpickers than with bluegrass flatpickers. Dougie MacLean sounded fabulous with a litte Sony stuck with his own Romex mount at the soundhole. He played a big custom Taylor of the quality provided for international endorsement artists (very good guitar, and nothing like the typical Taylor), and he played it delicately. Terrific sound. Flatpicking for most of us, not being Tony Rice or Bryan Sutton, often has stout peaks right up close like that and the result is pretty trashy sounding. I'd like to experiment with those DPA guitar mics with the mount to attach to the body, and the K&K Meridian mic, too. I have become fond of the sound from a Schoeps or other good condensor cardioid placed below and slightly away from the lower large bout aimed across the whole instrument. That position seems to work well, and offer good floor monitor rejection, too. While I can stand still enough in concert to use the Schoeps mounted on the mic stand, we have more fun when I step away from the stand and toward Shaidri for solos. We enjoy it and so does the audiece. That takes me out of the pickup pattern. If the mic went with me this might work really nicely. I have also recorded upright bass using a litle Countryman omni mic, fastened to the underside of the fingerboard with double-sticky tape. It gets a good bass sound, and because it's so close to the source, bleed is not a problem. In fact, the eveness of the omni off-axis often works deliciously in context, with the bleed being just right. Peace, Paul -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
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#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 10:43:52 AM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work because the player moves around too much. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? DPA 4099 is one of the best sounding microphones I've ever heard on a bass. The player was using a U87 as their staionary mic and I had the DPA with an adapter to plug into a Shure wireless beltpack. When they moved away from the Neuman there was no difference in quality between the DPA and the Neuman. |
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#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
On Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:27:32 PM UTC-7, cedricl wrote:
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 10:43:52 AM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote: What mic would you attach to a double bass in a bluegrass band for a live recording? A stationery mic will not work because the player moves around too much. What about the same question for an acoustic guitar, like a Martin D35? DPA 4099 is one of the best sounding microphones I've ever heard on a bass. The player was using a U87 as their staionary mic and I had the DPA with an adapter to plug into a Shure wireless beltpack. When they moved away from the Neuman there was no difference in quality between the DPA and the Neuman. You can go to Bob Gollier's web site http://www.gollihurmusic.com/ They have mic's with clamps for the bass. The best bass pickup by far I've seen and used is made by Rick Turner. He's the company that started Alembic. He takes an existing bridge (either get a second one fitted or trace yours) and send it to him. He puts ultra high impedance elements in slots so all the energy of the string goes though the string. It is sensitive to the most subtle changes in your playing. You will either need an acoustic image amp like the AR or a preamp, as simple as a K&K sold on Bob's web site. It's utterly fantastic. You can also plug it into a PA with excellent results. It's sensitive to strings. It does not interfere with the acoustic sound of the bass though it may look unusual. I first tried it with Helicore Orchestral strings and was so so. Then I used it on Helicore Hybrids and they sounded incredible. They also work great with Kolstein Heritiage Strings. I use it on a Kolstein Bridge with exotic legume naturally oily adjusters. Best bridge you can get. In fact, when I got my old Pedegree Feratti Bass from Barry Kolstein I had them fit two bridges in case I ever traded in this bass, I would keep the Turner pickup. In case you don't know, Alembic is the leader in high tech guitar and bass electronics, and Rick Turner was the original president and designer. He had a difference of opinion, as Alembic basses are very heavy and he makes the Renaissance line which is light weight and uses similar pickups to the upright pickup or in combination with magnetic high fidelity pickups. You can also mix a Turner pickup with a mic. Once again, Bob Gollier's web site has clamps made for putting on a bass, mics, and preamps that accept both a Turner pickup or a Turner Pickup and a Mic. I also carry custom made Hickory End Pins for the bass. You measure how far out you want an endpin and there is a fat part of the endpin that sticks out. and the diameter that is thinner goes into you end pin collar. That way the screw does not grind into it and it lasts forever. In Traeger's Optimizing the String Bass he says the end pin is more important than the sound post for sound. A hickory end pin will clarify the sound and make your bass more responsive. For less than the cost of strings you will significantly improve the sound. It should be removed when you transport the bass as it could otherwise bang into something and break off. Not a big deal. It will really improve any bass. They are made with removable crutch tips with a sharp spike under the rubber crutch tip for screwing into a wooden stage. You and your ensemble with love it. Write me for a picture. |
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
"Beach Runner" skrev i en meddelelse
news:03c54cda-1a5a-4a8a- ... On Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:27:32 PM UTC-7, cedricl wrote: On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 10:43:52 AM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote: You can go to Bob Gollier's web site http://www.gollihurmusic.com/ They have mic's with clamps for the bass. It wold appear that you ARE Bob Gollier. Your post would have been immensely clearer and easier to read - and no less informative - if you had been up front about it rather than obfuscating. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
Ty Ford wrote:
On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:47:02 -0400, Nate Najar wrote (in article ): Mounting a mic on a guitar never gives very decent results, but the best always seems to be an omni lav just inside the soundhole. If you can manage to keep it above the top of the guitar but still out of the player's way, even better. On the bass, if you really need it, an omni lav suspended in the bridge can be very good. Upmarket the dpa4060 series is excellent. Countryman is probably the most used here and excellent, and Bruce Bartlett who developed the little crown mini mics back in the day has his own line now which are very reasonably priced and do an excellent job. Some of Bruce's mics have a low frequency rolloff built into the preamp to compensate for suggested placements, so you have to take that into account with which mic you use and where you stick it. The "in guitar" mics I've heard replicate the sound field inside a guitar. I'm not a fan of that sound. Thanks. The perpetrator of the best known of those rigs lives right close by. When he comes up with a new version (You should try our new model with _two_ mics!) I have to insist I'm quite happy with the K&K into the Red-Eyes. It does NOT sound like a guitar, inside of a guitar. -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
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#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:54:53 PM UTC-7, Peter Larsen wrote:
On Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:27:32 PM UTC-7, cedricl wrote: On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 10:43:52 AM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote: You can go to Bob Gollier's web site http://www.gollihurmusic.com/ They have mic's with clamps for the bass. It wold appear that you ARE Bob Gollier. Your post would have been immensely clearer and easier to read - and no less informative - if you had been up front about it rather than obfuscating. Kind regards Peter Larsen That's incorrect. There's a great mailing list called the 2X Bass List. There's also a mailing list/Group The Bottom Line. I'm an active member of both lists. 2X bass list is more devoted to upright bass, jazz and classical, while the bottom line is more devoted to electric bass players and modern music and electronics. Bob Gollier is well respected on both lists. Generally for upright basses, but not accessories I recommend Barry Kolstein, the most respected bass luthier in the US. His Web Site is wwww.kolstein.com It's amazing. He's seen and restored the inside of more old Italian basses and other European basses in the world. He has 100% integrity. I am a musician and music teacher with an MA in music and music education from Columbia. I have a special expertise in the Psychology of Music and the Neuroscience of music. My website is www.comarow.com I came here because people here have the best knowledge of equipment. To be perfectly honest, in general audiophiles do not really know what real music sounds like. The best audiophile equipment is nothing like listening to real acoustic music, unamplified in a great concert hall. Many acoustic instruments simply can't be recorded, such as Leslie Speakers of Vibes.. And no speaker systems can reproduce permanbuco bows vibrating on strings with old growth aged spruce tops. The only headphones that really impressed me were the Koss Electrostatic headphones. I simply want the best headphones I can use with an IPHONE for exercise and at the gym. As far as the comment that the limiting factor in the 1812 overture might be the source, the IPHONE, on the Seenhowser head sets, on some bose headphones I don't have that problem. But the Bose, while pretty good certainly don't have the fidelity I hope for. There's a reason Bose doesn't publish specs. I bought them because they were discounted at Costco. I rebought them because I'm sure my cleaning lady stole them. They are no longer carried by Costco. My cleaning lady I'm sure stole my Phillips 212 turntable, as records are still far better than compressed MP3, a laptop, silverware, a camera and who knows what else. Needless to say I'm no longer going to use her. I had thought with my bad organizational skills at first I lost them. No I am not Bob Gollier. I am a customer of his. I am a full time professional musician. I play and teach Guitar, Upright and Electric bass, and teach piano. I recommend on my web site Barry Kolstein, Bob Gollier, local luthiers to repair instruments. I also have sections on how to select a good student guitar or bass. I have sections on the psychology and neuroscience of music. I always welcome feedback. www.comarow.com www.kolstein.com http://www.gollihurmusic.com/ Learning to play a musical instrument, real lessons, not mechanical lessons in tab, has been proven to increase academic performance, intelligence and abstract thinking. I have a writeup about it on my web site. It also keeps the mind sharp. Regardless of how busy people are I recommend learning to play an instrument. Guitar is great, portable, versatile and can play solo or with people. There's a great repertoire of great classical pieces and well as jazz chord solos. MRI studies of musician's brains show they create data structures later used for abstract concepts in math, science and physics. If you want to create future scientists or engineers, No Child Left Behind does not create the brain to do so. Give the child the gift of music study. I've also taught many adults, including retirees that started an instrument.. Many were successful, joining community orchestras or learning to play all kinds of guitar or piano. It keeps the mind shart and growing. I think all teachers should learn a new musical instrument to remember what it's like to learn. The following story is a great example. Albert Einstein attributed his abilities on learning the violin when he was 4. At Princeton, where he was a faculty member, Horowitz, the great concert pianist gave a concert. Afterwards there was a party for Horowitz and the faculty. Einstein brought his a Violin Concerto with him and cajoled Horowitz into playing it with him. After a short while, a frustrated Horowitz said to Einstein "What's the matter Albert, can't you count?" As far as expertise in mics for bass, Bob Gollier is a great resource, an honest and reliable person. And, no, I'm not him but a customer and colleague in the world of upright bass players. My advise for people on this list is two fold. 1: Learn to play a musical instrument. An acoustic instrument such as a classical guitar, piano, bass, cello, what have you. (Note, if you learn to play upright bass, you'll be able to play classical, jazz, bluegrass and other forms. And, the electric bass will be like a toy in your hands and you'll easily play electric bass.) 2: Get out of your wonderful audiophile music sound stage, go to see real life music in a great concert hall. That's what music sounds like. 3: Enjoy your love of great electronic music equipment. At home I have a Nakamichi 700 receiver and two ancient EPI with Heil Air Motion Transformers. The speakers are incredibly heavy, have a down facing 12" woofer and a 12" passive woofer. The highs are handled by the Heil Air Motion transformers. I've never heard speakers that handled highs well. My favorite speakers are the full range Electrostatic Speakers, even though most would say they lack bass. As a real bass player, thuds are not what basses sound like. I love but do not have the Koss Electrostatic headphones. Much of my life I listen to music on my IPHONE, which has very mediocre sound. This is what most people think of as music, and think ITUNES, with it's compressed formats is a great evolution of music. That's sad. But no, I'm not Bob Gollier but bass players on the double bass mailing list use him for their electronic needs. As for amplifying my upright bass for jazz gigs, I have Rick Turner's original pickups. Rick Turner was the original president of Alembic, the start of high end electronics for musicians. However, he moved away as Alembic was building absurdly heavy instruments and his line are more playable, with top of the line piezo pickups optionally mixed with magnetic pickups. For bass players, he takes your existing bridge, cuts out slots, and inserts incredibly high impedance, high output elements in such as way as all the energy from the string goes through the elements. It is sensitive to the most subtle changes in one's playing. It's very sensitive to one's choice of strings. Because of the high output, it requires a pre-amp to buffer the sound. Bob Gollier is a great supplier of pre-amps. Some folks mix the Turner pickup with a mic. Bob Gollier sells ha clamps to attach a mic to a bass, mics ideally suited to the uprights, and 2 channel pre-amps if that's the way one goes. The Turner pickup can be plugged directly into Acoustic Image Amplifiers, but I prefer the punch and sound of an SWR Mini Brute III with a pre-amp and no mics. I played with the most active big band in the State of Florida for 12 years with that setup and everyone loved my sound. Even better was an old Fender Bassman and a 2 10" Hartke Cab, but when I moved from Florida I stupidly sold my old Fender Bassman. On my website I often have guitars or basses in stock that I generally have available for new players that play and sound great yet are economical. I can't tell you over the years how many parents show up with an unplayable instrument and say "If Johnny loves playing it we'll get him a better instrument." News flash, no one loves playing a piece of junk and it dooms the student to failure. Thus I keep some great low priced instruments available. If any list members want my help getting a starter instrument, write me off list and I'll be glad to help them. I hope this clarifies that I am not Bob Gollier as the poster accused me of, and hopefully the information I provided, as a professional musician, is of value to the audiophile community. I know many of you do play musical instruments and do get out and hear live music. Other's seem to think that having better "stereo systems" somehow makes them better people, not unlike having a fancier car. Enjoy. |
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#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
"Low Hertz" skrev i en meddelelse
... On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:54:53 PM UTC-7, Peter Larsen wrote: It wold appear that you ARE Bob Gollier. Your post would have been immensely clearer and easier to read - and no less informative - if you had been up front about it rather than obfuscating. That's incorrect. Not it is not incorrect, that is how it APPEARS. To be perfectly honest, in general audiophiles do not really know what real music sounds like. We are not audiophiles here, we record, produce and master recordings of music. No I am not Bob Gollier. I am a customer of his. Thank you for making that clear, that makes that post make a lot more sense. I hope this clarifies that I am not Bob Gollier as the poster accused me of, It was not an accusation, it was a reference to a self-implication of yours. the audiophile community. I know many of you do play musical instruments and do get out and hear live music. Here in rec.audio.pro(duction) we are sound recordists, producers and mixers here, not audiophiles, you will find those in rec.audio.high-end. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#12
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 2:39:33 PM UTC-8, Peter Larsen wrote:
... On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:54:53 PM UTC-7, Peter Larsen wrote: It wold appear that you ARE Bob Gollier. Your post would have been immensely clearer and easier to read - and no less informative - if you had been up front about it rather than obfuscating. That's incorrect. Not it is not incorrect, that is how it APPEARS. To be perfectly honest, in general audiophiles do not really know what real music sounds like. We are not audiophiles here, we record, produce and master recordings of music. No I am not Bob Gollier. I am a customer of his. Thank you for making that clear, that makes that post make a lot more sense. I hope this clarifies that I am not Bob Gollier as the poster accused me of, It was not an accusation, it was a reference to a self-implication of yours. It was a silly statement by someone. Bob Gollier is highly respected in the upright and electric bass community. And, I am too. the audiophile community. I know many of you do play musical instruments and do get out and hear live music. Here in rec.audio.pro(duction) we are sound recordists, producers and mixers here, not audiophiles, you will find those in rec.audio.high-end. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#13
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Quote:
I'm Mark Gollihur, from Gollihur Music. I'm also a hobbyist home studio engineer/producer, so I'm sure I'd find plenty of interesting topics on this forum. FWIW, Bob Gollihur is my father, and he started Gollihur Music over 15 years ago. Bob C (who posted above) kindly let me in on this little conversation, and I just wanted to clarify that he is indeed NOT Bob from Gollihur Music. He is, in fact, a fairly regular customer of ours, as he stated. We don't engage in any "guerilla posting" techniques by posting under false names or getting people to sign up on forums to write glowing reviews of us or our products. On a side note, I do think that if he was Bob Gollihur, he wouldn't have repeatedly misspelled his own name (Gollier?) In any case, we are upright bass specialists, and work with several mics and pickups, and whether you're buying something or not, you're welcome to hit me up for information. Hope that clears things up. |
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#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
Low Hertz wrote:
I am a musician and music teacher with an MA in music and music education f= rom Columbia. I have a special expertise in the Psychology of Music and t= he Neuroscience of music. My website is www.comarow.com This is a good thing... but why don't you put your name in the header so as to prevent this sort of misunderstanding in the first place? To be perfectly honest, in general audiophiles do not really know what real= music sounds like. This is unfortunately very true, and it's a result of an insular community that spends too much time listening to audio equipment and too little time listening to acoustical music. But who brought up audiophiles? The best audiophile equipment is nothing like listeni= ng to real acoustic music, unamplified in a great concert hall. Many acou= stic instruments simply can't be recorded, such as Leslie Speakers of Vibes= . Actually, getting an accurate Leslie sound _is_ possible, by recording the room rather than the instrument. Most folks don't do that, because they don't want it to sound that way, because they want the sound of the spotmiked Leslie because that is what listeners are accustomed to. I'll say that the best audiophile equipment is remarkably close to a concert experience today, given recordings that are intended to be like the concert experience. There are two major factors that prevent this, though. First of all, there is also plenty of godawful playback equipment out there, some of it extremely expensive, and almost always people neglect proper treatment and setup of playback rooms. Secondly, most recordings today are made to sound artificially close in part so they can be played back pleasantly on cheap equipment and in part because listeners have become used to that. But if you ever have a chance to hear a good, well-made minimalist recording played back in a good mastering suite, it can be pretty amazing. The only headphones that really impressed me were the Koss Electrostatic he= adphones. I simply want the best headphones I can use with an IPHONE for exercise and= at the gym. I suggest trying the Grados, then. They do not block outside sounds, but they are easy to drive and they are very pleasant sounding. They are not analytical. As far as the comment that the limiting factor in the 1812 overture might b= e the source, the IPHONE, on the Seenhowser head sets, on some bose headpho= nes I don't have that problem. But the Bose, while pretty good certainly d= on't have the fidelity I hope for. There's a reason Bose doesn't publish sp= ecs. I bought them because they were discounted at Costco. I rebought the= m because I'm sure my cleaning lady stole them. They are no longer carried= by Costco. If the amplifier is clipping, don't blame the headphones, blame the iPhone. Some headphones will need more power to drive than others. Many of them will not be happy with a teeny-tiny class-D amplifier run off of 3V supply rails. Life is just like that, and you may have to make severe sacrifices in order to gain portability. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#15
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
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#16
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What Mic for a Double Bass or Guitar
"Mark Gollihur" skrev i en
meddelelse ... Hi Peter (and everyone else here)! I'm Mark Gollihur, from Gollihur Music. I'm also a hobbyist home studio engineer/producer, so I'm sure I'd find plenty of interesting topics on this forum. FWIW, Bob Gollihur is my father, and he started Gollihur Music over 15 years ago. Thank you, your website is quite interesting even though your physical shop is quite far away as seen from over here. In any case, we are upright bass specialists, and work with several mics and pickups, and whether you're buying something or not, you're welcome to hit me up for information. I have taken note of that, one never knows what one might need in a recording kit ... Hope that clears things up. Certainly, thank you! Mark Gollihur Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#17
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
Anyway. Just curious if anyone has heard anything in this regard, literally or figuratively,  and if so, what all might be going on in the audio realm of chip design and manufacture? Thanks, Frank -- . it's really not that hard these days to design and build a good flat flat D/A and audio amp to drive headphones. IMO the weakest link in the chain of most commercial recordings is not the hardware but rather the processing decisions made during mixing and mastering. In this case, since you mixed it yourself, you are bound to like the results :-) Mark |
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#18
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
wrote:
it's really not that hard these days to design and build a good flat flat D/A and audio amp to drive headphones. The problem is that the goalposts have been moved, and now the goal is to design and build such a thing that can run on two AA batteries. imo THe weakest link in the chain of most commercial recordings is not the hardware but rather the processing decisions made during mixing and mastering. In this case, since you mixed it yourself, you are bound to like the results :-) I don't know about Frank, but that's how I got into this business in the first place. "I bet I could make something that sounds better than THAT..." and next thing you know you look around and you're on a first-name basis with your Ampex rep... --scot -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#19
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...
it's really not that hard these days to design and build a good flat D/A and audio amp to drive headphones. The problem is that the goalposts have been moved, and now the goal is to design and build such a thing that can run on two AA batteries. The earphone part is solved. The STAX electrostatic earphones run on two AA cells. Now, if STAX added a killer DAC to the package (and maybe a crosstalk generator)... |
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#20
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 8:02:21 AM UTC-8, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... it's really not that hard these days to design and build a good flat D/A and audio amp to drive headphones. The problem is that the goalposts have been moved, and now the goal is to design and build such a thing that can run on two AA batteries. The earphone part is solved. The STAX electrostatic earphones run on two AA cells. Now, if STAX added a killer DAC to the package (and maybe a crosstalk generator)... I'd love to hear more about the new STAX electrostatic headphones. The only headphones I have ever been impressed with were Koss electrostatic headphones, but the extra parts seemed to make them kludgy. For a while they were available for $650 on EBAY, but now I can't find them. It sounds like the STAX might be a better solution. Can you plug them into a headphone jack. I know I misunderstood what this group was, but you guys have a lot of knowledge I want. Years back I used to do multi-track recording with a Reel to Reel clone of a Teac, a Dacorder and did jingles and things like that. In spite of having a career as a systems engineer I've never blended the two. I'd love to get a multi track recording capability that lets me lay down bass tracks, guitar tracks and the like. I want something that's fairly easy to get started with as the initial learning curve is difficult for me on new software, but once I get started I can run with it. I don't know if I should get a dedicated system or a software package. So, I'd like information on the Stax headphones referenced, will they plug into a regular headphone jack or how do they connect? And, I'd like opinions on a multi track recording system. What I offer are the real experiences of musician that has a bias against electronic reproduction of great acoustic instruments. I play a 100 year old Italian String bass, but when I do play electrically have what I consider the best pickup system made, a Rick Turner set of high impedience elements cut into slots on my bridge so all the string's energy goes through them. Rick Turner was the original president of Alembic which started super high end electronics starting with the Greatful dead, but split with Alembic because their instruments were insanely heavy and wanted to produce his own line. His string bass pickup is unlike anything in the market, but is by far the most sensitive to subtle nuances in your playing of any pickup. Still, I prefer to play acoustically, and also play classsical guitar (and solo jazz chord solos) acoustically at fine restaurants and the like. This should probably be two separate topics but please excuse me. 1: Tell me about the Stax, and where to get them. 2: Opinions on a multi-track system. Much thanks to the group knowledge here. |
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
"Low Hertz" wrote in message
... I'd love to hear more about the new STAX electrostatic headphones. They are not headphones, they are earphones. They come with a surprisingly small amplifier/energizer that runs for about five hours on two AA alkaline cells. (Rechargeable NiMH cells are recommended.) They can be plugged into any headphone jack or line-level source. They are not cheap, but less expensive than a pair of Etymotic earphones and a good amplifier. http://www.amazon.com/SRS-002-IN-THE...stax+headphone |
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
Frank Stearns wrote:
So the question still is whether affordable progress toward truly hi-fi, even at the low-end of the market, has simply lurched ahead, or whether some DSP trickery is taking place. And, in the end does it really matter if that DSP trickery is good enough? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
"Frank Stearns" skrev i en meddelelse
... But he was quick to condemn the ignorant consumer practice of cranking contrast, brightness, saturation, and edge enhancement to make a "loud" picture. ? - that is how they come out of the box, there hardly even is a natural setting, the choice is between colourful, more colourful and added contrast and even more colourful and more edge-enhancement, more NR and more contrast and more colourful just in case it wasn't colourful enough, did I remember added contrast? - but: twiddle dee, twiddle dum and hey presto tweed looks right again and pinstripe suits get their contours back. So advanced that there isn't even a setting for it and audio EQ is also wrong out of the box and has a large number of settings that range from reduced intelligibility to none. Usually there is a 5 band EQ somewhere in a menu and the option of adding a USER setting, for a starter set band 2 minus a wee bit, band 4 minus a bit less and band 5 a wee bit plus and you're likely to be at a good starting point that compensates for actual properties of a flat screen box and the loudspeaker drivers the production budget allows OR insert a headphone cable and connect it to something useful. Frank Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 10:35:19 AM UTC-8, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Low Hertz" wrote in message ... I'd love to hear more about the new STAX electrostatic headphones. They are not headphones, they are earphones. They come with a surprisingly small amplifier/energizer that runs for about five hours on two AA alkaline cells. (Rechargeable NiMH cells are recommended.) They can be plugged into any headphone jack or line-level source. They are not cheap, but less expensive than a pair of Etymotic earphones and a good amplifier. http://www.amazon.com/SRS-002-IN-THE...stax+headphone Are these electrostatic? Doesn't say anywhere in the ad they are. Much Thanks |
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:36:42 PM UTC-8, Peter Larsen wrote:
"Frank Stearns" skrev i en meddelelse ... But he was quick to condemn the ignorant consumer practice of cranking contrast, brightness, saturation, and edge enhancement to make a "loud" picture. ? - that is how they come out of the box, there hardly even is a natural setting, the choice is between colourful, more colourful and added contrast and even more colourful and more edge-enhancement, more NR and more contrast and more colourful just in case it wasn't colourful enough, did I remember added contrast? - but: twiddle dee, twiddle dum and hey presto tweed looks right again and pinstripe suits get their contours back. So advanced that there isn't even a setting for it and audio EQ is also wrong out of the box and has a large number of settings that range from reduced intelligibility to none. Usually there is a 5 band EQ somewhere in a menu and the option of adding a USER setting, for a starter set band 2 minus a wee bit, band 4 minus a bit less and band 5 a wee bit plus and you're likely to be at a good starting point that compensates for actual properties of a flat screen box and the loudspeaker drivers the production budget allows OR insert a headphone cable and connect it to something useful. Frank Kind regards Peter Larsen As a musician and appreciates live music in a good accoustical hall, I will say most people boost the bass and treble out the ying yang and that's how they understand music. I'll tell you a story about how drums evolved. In older days drummer would tune their drums so they had beautiful sustained tones. When they went into the primitive recording studios the engineers couldn't record drums so they deadened the drums so they had a short, crisp sound. People heard their recordings, and thought that's how drums should sound. So they made their live drum sets have no beautiful sustained tones. Thus, the rock era was filled with drummers playing drum sets designed for the limitations of early recording studios. Only real percussionists tuned their drums and instruments for a beautiful tone. |
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#28
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
"Low Hertz" skrev i en meddelelse
... I'll tell you a story about how drums evolved. In older days drummer would tune their drums so they had beautiful sustained tones. When they went into the primitive recording studios the engineers couldn't record drums so they deadened the drums so they had a short, crisp sound. Well, this is perhaps over-simplified. Werner Scherrer in Copenhagen once demonstrated to me how he tuned his studio drumkit, and it was indeed singing rather than whomping but tuned deeper than you would for jazz. The whomping tuning and damping it my knowledge has its origin on the road because of the way a drumkit on stage tends to be miked up. People heard their recordings, and thought that's how drums should sound. So they made their live drum sets have no beautiful sustained tones. Thus, the rock era was filled with drummers playing drum sets designed for the limitations of early recording studios. Live stage sound is a very special kind of beast, including loud surrounding noises that will resonate in a singing drum kit and including extreme close miking and drastic audio processing in the mixing desk. The latter has of course led to similar practices taken into the studio, I remember Werner Scherrers despair over Alrune Rod wanting to deploy 9 microphones in the drum booth using their (excellent) road mixer as side-car to this studio setup, probably about 6 microphones more than he saw fit. Only real percussionists tuned their drums and instruments for a beautiful tone. I don't like that wording, "real", simply because it implies that someone specializing for specific circumstances is "unreal" to those specializing to other circumstances. You tune a drumkit different for PA and for acoustic events, select different skins etc. just as you select different microphones for recording a rock band on stage and for recording a string quartet and indeed different for a rock singer and a wagnerian baryton and most certainly very different mic positioning. The one does not make the other "unreal". Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#29
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
Low Hertz wrote:
Are these electrostatic? Doesn't say anywhere in the ad they are. Much Thanks There's this thing, "Google". Here's what it could do for you: https://www.staxusa.com/STAX-SRS-002.html (Fer cryin' outloud, yer postin' from a GMail acct€¦) -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
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#30
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
Low Hertz wrote:
I'd love to hear more about the new STAX electrostatic headphones. They are basically the same Stax earspeaker technology that they have been selling since the seventies, although I think all the newer ones are now all electrets and they have discontinued the high voltage ones. The Stax earspeaker design actually minimizes frequency response differences from listener to listener due to ear shape, but at the same token it also is very uncomfortable to me and feels like it's always going to fall off my head. And of course it does not block outside sound at all. In the seventies they were very popular for field monitoring. The only headphones I have ever been impressed with were Koss electrostatic= headphones, but the extra parts seemed to make them kludgy. For a while t= hey were available for $650 on EBAY, but now I can't find them. Planar headphones of various designs have become a big thing right now. There has been an enormous explosion in high end headphone equipment in the past few years as a new generation of young people discover that they can have good sound quality. We have a lot of younger folks who grew up wearing headphones and never heard good sound, and they are beginning to discover it. It sounds like the STAX might be a better solution. Can you plug them into= a headphone jack. Some you can, some require external devices. Personally if I were looking for something for casual listening I would try the Grados, though. I know I misunderstood what this group was, but you guys have a lot of know= ledge I want. Have you considered looking at the FAQ then? Years back I used to do multi-track recording with a Reel to Reel clone of = a Teac, a Dacorder and did jingles and things like that. You had a Dokorder that actually worked? I saw hundreds of the things on my bench when they were new... soldiers bought them at the PX in Saigon or they bought them in Japan and thry brought them back and they very seldom actually worked properly. If you got a good one, you did well. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#31
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Something New in Commodity Audio? Was What Mic for a Double Bass
"William Sommerwerck" skrev i en meddelelse
... "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Low Hertz wrote: I'd love to hear more about the new STAX electrostatic headphones. They are basically the same Stax earspeaker technology that they have been selling since the seventies, although I think all the newer ones are now all electrets and they have discontinued the high voltage ones. Scott, how could you... AFAIK, STAX has never made electret headphones or earphones. The high-voltage designs (which include the earphones) have the obvious advantage of higher output for a given drive level. STAX has had two decades to perfect the HV design; I doubt it would be abandoned. Scott probably was wrong some time - anybody here remember when? - but in this he is right. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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