[[email protected]]

I noticed a lot of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are pushing the fact
that they have 5 ch analog outputs. Is this better or worse than just
using a single HDMI? My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont
use, am I unknowingly missing out on some great sound?

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

Tim

[Ethan Winer]

Tim,

My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont use, am I unknowingly
missing out on some great sound?

You could always try it and see for yourself. :-)

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

I agree. I imagine both sound exactly the same.

If you're concerned about audible degradation, the acoustics of your
listening room are infinitely more important than which device handles the
D/A conversion.

--Ethan

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:13:10 -0500, "Ethan Winer" ethanw at
ethanwiner dot com wrote:

Tim,

My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont use, am I unknowingly
missing out on some great sound?

You could always try it and see for yourself. :-)

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

I agree. I imagine both sound exactly the same.

If you're concerned about audible degradation, the acoustics of your
listening room are infinitely more important than which device handles the
D/A conversion.

Yes but the advantage of digital output is that the processor can
apply bass/channel management and EQ without additional conversions.

Kal

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:06:40 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I noticed a lot of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are pushing the fact
that they have 5 ch analog outputs. Is this better or worse than just
using a single HDMI? My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont
use, am I unknowingly missing out on some great sound?

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

If both ends of the HDMI wire are HDMI 1.3-whatever-letter
compliant, it will be able to pass the latest and greatest
"HD" audio too. This is a higher sampling rate and bit depth
format, and may include back channels.

It won't change your life, or even necessarily be audible,
but, hey, it's new!

The analog outputs are for compatability with surround
receivers of slightly earlier eras. This stuff changes fast.


All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

[willbill]

wrote:

I noticed a lot of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are pushing the fact
that they have 5 ch analog outputs. Is this better or worse than just
using a single HDMI? My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont
use, am I unknowingly missing out on some great sound?

I just cant see analog being better than digital.


i've got 2 decent players with 5.1 analog out
(an OPPO which doesn't do HD movies, but does
do SACD sound), and a 3rd gen Toshiba A35

on both the 5.1 analog is noticeably slightly
better than via the digital fiber (TOSLink)

i've also tried the OPPO's sound via an HDMI
cable, and it is the same as the TOSLink cable.
i clearly need to try the same (i.e. HDMI cable
for the sound into my AVR) with the A35 player


bill

[Matt Ion]

wrote:
I noticed a lot of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are pushing the fact
that they have 5 ch analog outputs. Is this better or worse than just
using a single HDMI? My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont
use, am I unknowingly missing out on some great sound?

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

Well if your receiver has 5.1 analog input and not HDMI, then you're
missing out on 5.1 surround.

I think the reason for pushing that point is probably more that there
aren't a lot of HDMI-equipped receivers on the market yet - the analog
is more backward-compatible.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:03:37 GMT, Matt Ion
wrote:

Well if your receiver has 5.1 analog input and not HDMI, then you're
missing out on 5.1 surround.

Surround receivers with either copper wire coax or optical cable
multichannel digital inputs are more than five years old now.

I think the reason for pushing that point is probably more that there
aren't a lot of HDMI-equipped receivers on the market yet - the analog
is more backward-compatible.

One brick-wall incompatability is SACD. At the opposite end of
the spectrum is HD audio. Both are deliberately restricted for DRM
reasons.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:40:59 -0600, willbill
wrote:

on both the 5.1 analog is noticeably slightly
better than via the digital fiber (TOSLink)

Depends on your discs and DACs. I would not
take this as a general statement.

i've also tried the OPPO's sound via an HDMI
cable, and it is the same as the TOSLink cable.

See above. Some materials will not be transmitted
via TOSlink at all.

Kal

[Ethan Winer]

Yes but the advantage of digital output is that the processor can apply
bass/channel management and EQ without additional conversions.

Good point Kal.

[Durround]

wrote in message
...
I noticed a lot of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are pushing the fact
that they have 5 ch analog outputs. Is this better or worse than just
using a single HDMI? My reciever has a 5 ch analog input which I dont
use, am I unknowingly missing out on some great sound?

I just cant see analog being better than digital.

Tim

Why don't you just try it for yourself?
Is it really so tricky to test using some spare budget anolog
interconnects that you may have hanging around. Or use the
interconnects from other devices such as CD player, DVD player etc.
If you like what you hear then invest in some interconnects.
Does someone dress you of a morning and chop your food for you?

[willbill]

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:40:59 -0600, willbill wrote:

on both the 5.1 analog is noticeably slightly
better than via the digital fiber (TOSLink)

Depends on your discs and DACs. I would not
take this as a general statement.


maybe

but this whole 5.1 multichannel via 6 analog
cables is starting to make me wonder just
how many high-enders really listen; or like
you, fail to revisit a hardware situation
(in this case, the hardware also includes
different cables)


i've also tried the OPPO's sound via an HDMI
cable, and it is the same as the TOSLink cable.

See above. Some materials will not be transmitted
via TOSlink at all.


if anything, that's my argument.

fwiw, i got an early Xmas present today,
as 4 of my HD-DVD disk orders with HD sound
showed up today (i didn't see who left
the package at the door but i'm assuming
it was the Post Office; on a Sunday!)

from a very quick/brief listen to the 4,
the one disk that may have high-end surround
aspirations is Mozart's Magic Flute opera.
Sir Colin Davis conducting chorus and
orchestra of The Royal Opera House/2003.
recorded live at Covent Garden

the disk has Dolby TrueHD 5.1, as well
as Dolby TrueHD stereo

out of curiosity i tried searching
www.stereophile.com for
mozart magic flute colin davis
but got zero

have you reviewed this disk?

anyhow for the moment, my main interest
is in using it to see if i can reach any
conclusions about how to connect my
new Toshiba A35 player; so far i've
been running the HDMI cable straight
into my LCD TV for the video (and turning
the TV's sound to zero), and both the 5.1
analog cables as well as optical TOSLink
for the sound (into the AVR). instead,
i'll now run the HDMI into my AVR (for
both sound and video), and 5.1 analog
cables, and disconnect the TOSLink

i'll also try the mutichannel PCM that
is available when using HDMI. although
that suggests going thru possible
additional sound conversions; although
you never know until you try

i mean hey, i'm not much of an opera fan.
just so long as the disk has high quality
multichannel sound

bill

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:43:37 -0600, willbill
wrote:

Kalman Rubinson wrote:
Depends on your discs and DACs. I would not
take this as a general statement.


maybe

but this whole 5.1 multichannel via 6 analog
cables is starting to make me wonder just
how many high-enders really listen; or like
you, fail to revisit a hardware situation
(in this case, the hardware also includes
different cables)

You presume that I do not but, in fact, it is encumbent on me to try
all the reasonable alternatives whenever I review a new piece of
equipment. My point is that using 6 analog interconnects is usually
OK but precludes using any post-processing and room EQ without
layering on additional A/D/A conversions.

i've also tried the OPPO's sound via an HDMI
cable, and it is the same as the TOSLink cable.

See above. Some materials will not be transmitted
via TOSlink at all.

if anything, that's my argument.

That makes for a difficult/complex comparison. I found the HDMI
superior to the TOSlink but I tend to listen to lossless multichannel
and that is not possible on TOSlink.

from a very quick/brief listen to the 4,
the one disk that may have high-end surround
aspirations is Mozart's Magic Flute opera.
Sir Colin Davis conducting chorus and
orchestra of The Royal Opera House/2003.
recorded live at Covent Garden

the disk has Dolby TrueHD 5.1, as well
as Dolby TrueHD stereo

out of curiosity i tried searching
www.stereophile.com for
mozart magic flute colin davis
but got zero

have you reviewed this disk?

Nope but I will comment on it in the March column. It is outstanding.

instead,
i'll now run the HDMI into my AVR (for
both sound and video), and 5.1 analog
cables, and disconnect the TOSLink

That's the day to do it.

i'll also try the mutichannel PCM that
is available when using HDMI. although
that suggests going thru possible
additional sound conversions; although
you never know until you try

No addition conversions with MPCM.

Kal

[Arny Krueger]

"willbill" wrote in message

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:40:59 -0600, willbill wrote:

on both the 5.1 analog is noticeably slightly
better than via the digital fiber (TOSLink)

Depends on your discs and DACs. I would not
take this as a general statement.


maybe

but this whole 5.1 multichannel via 6 analog
cables is starting to make me wonder just
how many high-enders really listen; or like
you, fail to revisit a hardware situation
(in this case, the hardware also includes
different cables)

Hi-enders listen.

They listen with salemen hovering over their demo.
They listen while trying to one-up their buddy.
They listen after emptying half a bottle of wine or single malt.
They listen with the fanciful words from the latest issue of SP or TAS
ringing in their ears.
They listen after they spent the price of a small car on a fancy gold-plated
watzamajiggie.

[Go Away[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Hi-enders listen.

They listen with salemen hovering over their demo.
They listen while trying to one-up their buddy.
They listen after emptying half a bottle of wine or single malt.
They listen with the fanciful words from the latest issue of SP or TAS
ringing in their ears.
They listen after they spent the price of a small car on a fancy
gold-plated watzamajiggie.


Nobody listens to you Arny.
Now Arny you just toodle off and listen to your pointless test CD.

[willbill]

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:43:37 -0600, willbill wrote:

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

Depends on your discs and DACs. I would not
take this as a general statement.

maybe

but this whole 5.1 multichannel via 6 analog
cables is starting to make me wonder just
how many high-enders really listen; or like
you, fail to revisit a hardware situation
(in this case, the hardware also includes
different cables)

You presume that I do not


that is the impression that i've
so far gotten from you

fwiw, no i do NOT presume


but, in fact, it is encumbent on me to try
all the reasonable alternatives whenever
I review a new piece of equipment.


agreed


My point is that using 6 analog interconnects is usually
OK but precludes using any post-processing and room EQ without
layering on additional A/D/A conversions.


A/D/A meaning low frequency? why is it
that you keep harping on an extra A/D/A
low frequency thing?

my crossover (via AVR and/or player)
is very low, so i have to think that
it really is not an issue in drawing
valid conclusions

my 1 yr old Denon 2307CI AVR has
2 settings for the subwoofer boost

maybe one of them does go thru
an additional A/D/A conversion;
so i have to think that it really
is not an issue in drawing
valid conclusions

maybe i'm wrong on this?


i've also tried the OPPO's sound via an HDMI
cable, and it is the same as the TOSLink cable.
See above. Some materials will not be transmitted
via TOSlink at all.
if anything, that's my argument.

That makes for a difficult/complex comparison. I found the HDMI
superior to the TOSlink but I tend to listen to lossless multichannel
and that is not possible on TOSlink.


thank you for actually saying
something meaningful

as far as i recently remember, others
on the r.a. n/g's have stated that digital
TOSLink and digital coax and HDMI are
all either similar or even identical
sound wise (which i suspect
is deeply suspect)


from a very quick/brief listen to the 4,
the one disk that may have high-end surround
aspirations is Mozart's Magic Flute opera.
Sir Colin Davis conducting chorus and
orchestra of The Royal Opera House/2003.
recorded live at Covent Garden

the disk has Dolby TrueHD 5.1, as well
as Dolby TrueHD stereo

out of curiosity i tried searching
www.stereophile.com for
mozart magic flute colin davis
but got zero

have you reviewed this disk?


Nope but I will comment on it in the March column. It is outstanding.


thank you for willing to say "outstanding"

i've only listened so far to the 1st 25 min.

so far a bit of a disappointment

of course, it (the vocals) was recorded live
and i've yet to see a mic in the video

so the front L/C/R sound is *remote*
at best

so far i've turned down my rear L/R
sound by ~9db and have to revisit from
the start


instead,
i'll now run the HDMI into my AVR (for
both sound and video), and 5.1 analog
cables, and disconnect the TOSLink

That's the day to do it.




"day" = way?



i'll also try the mutichannel PCM that
is available when using HDMI. although
that suggests going thru possible
additional sound conversions; although
you never know until you try

No addition conversions with MPCM.


ok.

my 1 yr old Denon AVR doesn't decode
the HD encodings (either Dolby or DTS);
my hunch is that it will recognize MPCM
that comes over the HDMI cable (yet to
be proven from my actually doing it;
as well as how well it may sound)

Merry Xmas to you.

i'll be back on this in ~2/3 days

i'll look forward to your review
of HD-DVD Magic Flute.

have you yet come across a convincing
review of HD sound from BD vs HD-DVD?

if yes, kindly post link(s)

bill

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:39:54 -0600, willbill
wrote:

A/D/A meaning low frequency? why is it
that you keep harping on an extra A/D/A
low frequency thing?

Never said anything about low frequency. If you feed
analog into the processor and intend to add postprocessing,
such as bass/channel management and/or and/or EQ, there will,
of necessity, be additional A/D and D/A conversions for
all channels.

my 1 yr old Denon 2307CI AVR has
2 settings for the subwoofer boost

maybe one of them does go thru
an additional A/D/A conversion;
so i have to think that it really
is not an issue in drawing
valid conclusions

maybe i'm wrong on this?

Can you pass through the 5 channels as analog but
digitize the .1? I think not. Besides, level setting is not
the point as that can be done in the analog domain.
So, I do not understand your point. If you are not using
the Denon for postprocessing, then the issue of additional
conversions is moot, for you.

thank you for willing to say "outstanding"

I do not understand your attitude.

have you yet come across a convincing
review of HD sound from BD vs HD-DVD?

Nope. I have yet to hear a difference as long as
it is the same program with the same CODEC.