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#1
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Contrary to popular urban myths, downloading doesn't account but for a
tiny minorty in drop in cd sales. In fact research shows that cd downloading increases are followed by greater sales for the same cd. It is not unlike radio playtime, the more it is heard, either by download or on the radio, the more likely for a purchase. The music biz needs to wake up and smell the shrink wrap on recordable cdr's. It is a loss in quality of music stupid and manipulation of talent in an attempt to create the next "big" act that is at fault. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994831 |
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#3
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Bob Cain" wrote in message
... The reasoning is flawed. The same pressures which increase downloading will increase purchase. This doesn't begin to isolate or disprove the effect that downloading has on sales. You're just not looking deeply enough. The study was conducted based on individual album sales, rather than combined numbers, and actually showed that albums which were released in previous years' sales went up directly proportionally to the amount of times they were downloaded. For a specific case, albums that sold more than 600k copies were shown to not only *not* drop as downloading increased, but go *up* by approximately one sale per 150 downloads. It was only the least popular music that seemed to suffer because of downloading, which I would assume is because people tried it and didn't like it enough to buy it. It is not precisely the same pressures that cause increases in both behaviors, although there is significant overlap. P2P software acts as an aggregator, allowing people to find music according to genre and other grouping methods, which actually causes it's own pressure on cd sales. People are using P2P software to shop for the music they will buy next. ryanm |
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#4
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
ryanm wrote:
"Bob Cain" wrote in message ... The reasoning is flawed. The same pressures which increase downloading will increase purchase. This doesn't begin to isolate or disprove the effect that downloading has on sales. You're just not looking deeply enough. The study was conducted based on individual album sales, rather than combined numbers, and actually showed that albums which were released in previous years' sales went up directly proportionally to the amount of times they were downloaded. For a specific case, albums that sold more than 600k copies were shown to not only *not* drop as downloading increased, but go *up* by approximately one sale per 150 downloads. It was only the least popular music that seemed to suffer because of downloading, which I would assume is because people tried it and didn't like it enough to buy it. That still falls within what I said. There is no reason to see causality in this coincidence. They can both have the same cause. Popularity. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#5
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"ryanm" wrote in message
... You're just not looking deeply enough. The study was conducted based on individual album sales, rather than combined numbers, and actually showed that albums which were released in previous years' sales went up directly proportionally to the amount of times they were downloaded. Not that this makes any difference but before I ran Kazaa I had about 10 CD's. Now I have over 300 all purchased at retail. Since I stopped using Kazaa (about a year ago) I think I've bought about 3 CD's. |
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#6
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"ryanm" wrote in message ...
"Bob Cain" wrote in message ... The reasoning is flawed. The same pressures which increase downloading will increase purchase. This doesn't begin to isolate or disprove the effect that downloading has on sales. You're just not looking deeply enough. The study was conducted based on individual album sales, rather than combined numbers, and actually showed that albums which were released in previous years' sales went up directly proportionally to the amount of times they were downloaded. For a specific case, albums that sold more than 600k copies were shown to not only *not* drop as downloading increased, but go *up* by approximately one sale per 150 downloads. Which could also mean 149 sales lost. It was only the least popular music that seemed to suffer because of downloading, which I would assume is because people tried it and didn't like it enough to buy it. A good enough point, which is a quality issue, not a moral or legal one, but... It is not precisely the same pressures that cause increases in both behaviors, although there is significant overlap. P2P software acts as an aggregator, allowing people to find music according to genre and other grouping methods, which actually causes it's own pressure on cd sales. People are using P2P software to shop for the music they will buy next. ryanm And hopefully iTunes, etc. will be the cure, and forever banish the lame excuses that people come up with to steal music. If you, or anyone, take music by downloading it, and use it by listening to it, without the copyright owner's permission you are STEALING IT REGARDLESS OF WHETEHER YOU INTENDED TO BUY IT. THEFT IS THEFT AND ONLY THE ARTIST AND/OR COPYRIGHT HOLDER SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE IF THEIR WORK CAN BE DOWNLOADED. How many artists decide what 'data' you will release about yourself? How would you feel if an artist uploaded very important files about you for the whole world to d/l? Forgive me if you've answered this before, but do you, Ryan M, record or create music with the intention of profiting or at least breaking even? Do you offer any music or music service for sale? Or are you just an onlooker of this group? I've seen a few of your posts, but only in regard to d/l'ing. If you are a music professional (or even money-making amateur), or have any other music industry experience, I will be more inclined to weigh your arguments as to how d/l'ing can help the industry. More importantly, do you have any friends in bands? Isn't an unsigned, on-their-own band the *most* likely to suffer the greatest from music theft? Most likely from their 'friends' or 'fans'? Every penny counts, at that stage of an act's development. Or should only the wealthy be able to afford the equipment and resources needed to succeed? I've said this befo The ONLY way to assure that an artist doesn't make any $ on a song is to promote d/l'ing it for free against their will. If the artist wants to benefit from d/l'ing, THAT IS THE ARTIST'S CHOICE, NOT YOURS OR ANYONE ELSE'S. Mikey Nova Music Productions |
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#7
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
Not that this makes any difference but before I ran Kazaa I had about 10 CD's. Now I have over 300 all purchased at retail. Since I stopped using Kazaa (about a year ago) I think I've bought about 3 CD's. I would really hope that effect is found to be widespread and counteracts the others that cease buying but I'm skeptical. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#8
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Bob Cain" wrote in message
... That still falls within what I said. There is no reason to see causality in this coincidence. They can both have the same cause. Popularity. Well, the difficulty is the overlap. Popularity certainly does drive both, but since the advent of P2P downloading, some artists' back catalog purchases have gone up significantly. So have "unknowns" that happen to have names that start with the same letter as popular bands in the same genre. And so on. There *is* actually evidence that people are finding music they never would've heard otherwise on P2P networks, and that they are purchasing as a result. Personally, I don't know anyone who downloads that doesn't also have a pretty large CD collection. Most of them download for the immediacy of it; they want to hear a particular song *right now*, and after listening to it, they often buy the cd so that they don't have to search for it the next time they want to hear it. I've used it to look up songs I heard on a movie soundtrack based on the first line of the chorus, which helped me find the artist and album name, which allowed me to buy it when I couldn't have otherwise (have you ever tried to read the publishing info at the end of a movie on VHS? Illegible between the scan-lines and the blur). If you look at the studies, there really is no doubt that people are using it to find new music, not just to get what they hear on the radio, and that many of them are purchasing after finding it. The thing that makes it look like a lot more people are downloading than buying is the fact that, when people can sit at home in their underwear and browse 1000 songs, they *do*. As opposed to having to get dressed and go to the store, find a disc, get the high-school kid working the section to put it in a demo player (assuming they even have one), just to listen to a few songs on a single cd. So, yeah, they download a *lot* more than they buy, but for the most part it seems to be a browsing behavior, rather than a collection behavior. ryanm |
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#9
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Mikey" wrote in message
m... Which could also mean 149 sales lost. Not on planet earth. There is absolutely *no* reason to believe that those people would've bought the cd just because they were curious about one song on it. Chances are, they would've simply done without. All 150 of them. Instead, 150 downloaded, one bought, and the other 149 didn't like it so they deleted it. 1 is better than 0. lame excuses that people come up with to steal music. If you, or anyone, take music by downloading it, and use it by listening to it, without the copyright owner's permission you are STEALING IT No, it's not, and I'm not going to go into that again. Theft involves tangible property, this is a completely different offense with a completely different set of laws that cover it. Forgive me if you've answered this before, but do you, Ryan M, record or create music with the intention of profiting or at least breaking even? Do you offer any music or music service for sale? Or are you just an onlooker of this group? I've seen a few of your posts, but only in regard to d/l'ing. If you are a music professional (or even money-making amateur), or have any other music industry experience, I will be more inclined to weigh your arguments as to how d/l'ing can help the industry. No, I don't publish any of my music, if that's what you mean. I do game, presentation, and short film soundtracks occasionally, but those are works for hire. Mostly, my music is just for me, or for the occasion when I drag one out for a crowd at my regular (hobby) gig, which is a cover band. But what, exactly, does that have to do with facts and carefully considered studies? I'm not stating my opinion, here, I'm quoting or summarizing scientific studies, conducted by well-respected companies who do the same kind of studies on the effects of Mtv or radio airplay on purchasing trends. Or I'm quoting or summarizing news articles, or other perfectly reasonable sources. Why would my status as a professional musician have any bearing whatsoever? Just like the question of whether downloading is theft: it is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. The law says it is not theft, so it is not, it is a copyright violation, and that is all that it is (unless RIAA lobby money can get that changed as wellg). More importantly, do you have any friends in bands? Isn't an unsigned, on-their-own band the *most* likely to suffer the greatest from music theft? Most likely from their 'friends' or 'fans'? Every penny counts, at that stage of an act's development. Or should only the wealthy be able to afford the equipment and resources needed to succeed? I've said this befo The ONLY way to assure that an artist doesn't make any $ on a song is to promote d/l'ing it for free against their will. Actually, the unsigned bands and the indy acts seem to be, by all studies and accounts, getting the *most* benefits from P2P downloading. It gives them instant access to a worldwide market, something that they *never* would've been able to get under a label unless they were lucky enough to be one of the (very) few who the labels decide can make a lot of money. It is only the signed acts on the top labels who are selling hundreds of thousands of units a year that are seeing *any* decline in sales, and I do mean *any* decline, which could be attributed to *anything* (the economy, a crap 2nd album, dixie chicks syndrome, etc), not just downloading. Check out the other thread I started called "Some Industry News" for some news articles relating specifically to this subject. ryanm |
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#10
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Bob Cain writes:
Not that this makes any difference but before I ran Kazaa I had about 10 CD's. Now I have over 300 all purchased at retail. Since I stopped using Kazaa (about a year ago) I think I've bought about 3 CD's. I would really hope that effect is found to be widespread and counteracts the others that cease buying but I'm skeptical. Record labels whine all the time about kazaa users listening to CD tracks without paying for the CD's, but another group of people, namely radio listeners, does exactly the same thing, without the labels complaining. The labels even ENCOURAGE radio stations to broadcast the CD's, sometimes to the extent of dispensing illegal payola to get their CD's on the air more, to get as many people as possible to listen without paying. You figure it out. |
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#11
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
Bob Cain writes: Not that this makes any difference but before I ran Kazaa I had about 10 CD's. Now I have over 300 all purchased at retail. Since I stopped using Kazaa (about a year ago) I think I've bought about 3 CD's. I would really hope that effect is found to be widespread and counteracts the others that cease buying but I'm skeptical. Record labels whine all the time about kazaa users listening to CD tracks without paying for the CD's, but another group of people, namely radio listeners, does exactly the same thing, without the labels complaining. It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. |
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#12
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
... It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. Exactly. Radio is advertising. You can't "keep" the product. Kazaa would be the equivalent of a car dealer trying to get you interested in them by giving you the very car you want to buy. What kind of business could succeed like that? |
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#13
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. Exactly. Radio is advertising. You can't "keep" the product. Kazaa would be the equivalent of a car dealer trying to get you interested in them by giving you the very car you want to buy. What kind of business could succeed like that? Agreed, but it's not exactly a black-and-white distinction. Anybody who wants to can make a recording of a FM station and use a wave editor to pluck recordings out and save them. Some people have been doing this for decades. It's always been a relatively easy possibility, as long as we at least had magnetic tape. Satellite radio can be "mined" the same way. The trade-offs relate to sound quality and convenience. The combination of file-sharing and high speed internet connections made this sort of thing really scary to many producers. Too easy, too fast, and the sound quality was too high. But, it's a qualitative thing. It's not like a car dealer giving away new cars. It's always been a matter of how nasty the metaphorical free *car* actually was. |
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#14
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
From: Paul Rubin
Record labels whine all the time about kazaa users listening to CD tracks without paying for the CD's, but another group of people, namely radio listeners, does exactly the same thing, without the labels complaining. The labels even ENCOURAGE radio stations to broadcast the CD's, sometimes to the extent of dispensing illegal payola to get their CD's on the air more, to get as many people as possible to listen without paying. You figure it out. I've read that payola is a CODB. Doesn't do my appreciation for the money folks in the "biz" to see them siccing the FBI on kids and suing them besides while they bribe radio stations. Especially when I read that overall CD sales were actually up a bunch (12%) in '03. I remember the Payola crackdown of the early 60's. One of my favorite DJ's, on WKBW (name sadly lost in foggy memory), said he'd take his in the form of a swimming pool "because they can't take that back". We've lost a lot. He had a ceremony: After lighting the candle, repeat after me: "I will not be a tuning knob twister, or I will get a K-big blister" (something like that, anyhow). When do you think the Cult of the CEO is going to decline as a national pastime? Back to the peanut gallery. --TP |
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#15
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
It is common knowledge among music industry types that downloading is hurting
sales tremendously. All of the big labels are freaking out right now. The plan now is how to tap into it instead of fight it. Whether the musicians know it or not, it is hurting everyone's chances at ever getting any sort of record deal from a label with enough money to make a deal worth getting. If your goal is to make a living doing something other than selling records, then my point is moot. JJ |
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#16
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Druhms wrote:
It is common knowledge among music industry types that downloading is hurting sales tremendously. All of the big labels are freaking out right now. The problem is that the music industry isn't one monolithic block, even though Sony might everyone to think that it is. Some folks do seem to be really hurt by downloading, while other sectors of the industry have possibly benefitted by it (in that obscure and unavailable material has become available, which would not have been cost-effective for the labels to re-release, and that this has interested people in other material by the same performers or composers). The plan now is how to tap into it instead of fight it. Whether the musicians know it or not, it is hurting everyone's chances at ever getting any sort of record deal from a label with enough money to make a deal worth getting. In the classical world, those chances are so close to zero (and have been for thirty years) that it's not too big an issue. If your goal is to make a living doing something other than selling records, then my point is moot. Well, it would sure be nice if performers could make a living actually going out on the road and performing. But THAT has turned into a rotten market too, with a few groups making huge money and the middle-range dropped totally out. I hear people blaming this on everything from bars banning smoking to the increase in drinking age to the lack of music appreciation classes in schools. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#17
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Arny Krueger" writes:
It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. |
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#18
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
Record labels whine all the time about kazaa users listening to CD tracks without paying for the CD's, but another group of people, namely radio listeners, does exactly the same thing, without the labels complaining. The labels even ENCOURAGE radio stations to broadcast the CD's, sometimes to the extent of dispensing illegal payola to get their CD's on the air more, to get as many people as possible to listen without paying. You figure it out. Okay, I'll figure that out, from the artist/composer/publisher viewpoint: performance rayalties - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, etc. How much performance royalty money can be expected from P2P? -- ha |
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#19
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Ricky W. Hunt" writes:
It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. Exactly. Radio is advertising. You can't "keep" the product. That's silly, as anyone with a tape deck can tell you. When I was in college, whenever a hot new album came out, the local radio stations would buy copies and play tracks, and also announce for several days that at a certain time (say 8pm on Thursday) they were going to play the entire album start to finish commercial-free. No prizes for figuring out why listeners would care about such precise scheduling. It'rs true that music taped from FM broadcasts back then didn't sound as good as CD's do now, but MP3's don't sound so great either. You might like reading Prof. Lessig's new book "Free Culture", available in bookstores or also downloadable from his web site (http://free-culture.org) in pdf form (Creative Commons license). It's a good description of how copyright developed and how its reach has expanded drastically in the past few decades. I have it in HTML form on my own site: http://www.nightsong.com/phr/free-culture (warning, the html file is around 700k). Prof. Lessig seems to think that the free downloads help sales of the printed version, and there are obvious analogies with mp3's. |
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#20
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Tom Paterson" wrote in message
... Doesn't do my appreciation for the money folks in the "biz" to see them siccing the FBI on kids and suing them besides while they bribe radio stations. Especially when I read that overall CD sales were actually up a bunch (12%) in '03. I think what the music business leaders don't want to realize is that they're simply losing money through bad business practices, just like many other industries have. Any company that thinks suing the customer is the way to return to profitability is simply deluding themselves. Sean |
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#21
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
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#22
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
"Arny Krueger" writes: It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. Do we have to rehash how long it takes to do that, and then how long it would take to make a cassette for every person in the online world just in case they wanted it, too? Versus Kazaaing? Yeah, people could copy stuff off of the radio, in realtime, and the dupe it in realtime or halftime, but there is no comparison there with the minimal time and materials required for P2P distribution. -- ha |
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#23
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
From what I gather, there's no performance royalty from radio broadcast either, just composer/songwriter royalties. I think you might want to get with the _definition_ of "performance royalties", Paul. It isn't what you're thinking it is; ASCAP et al are _performance royalty collection organizations_. Cogent discussion of these issues requires working knowledge of the terminology. If an artist is also the composer, then the artist/cpmposer and publisher will receive payment. -- ha |
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#24
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
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#26
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
hank alrich wrote:
A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. Do we have to rehash how long it takes to do that, and then how long it would take to make a cassette for every person in the online world just in case they wanted it, too? Versus Kazaaing? Yeah, people could copy stuff off of the radio, in realtime, and the dupe it in realtime or halftime, but there is no comparison there with the minimal time and materials required for P2P distribution. That is so ****ing obvious I just wish it didn't need constant repeating. But it sure seems to. Heavy sigh. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#27
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
"Ricky W. Hunt" writes: It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. Exactly. Radio is advertising. You can't "keep" the product. That's silly, as anyone with a tape deck can tell you. When I was in college, whenever a hot new album came out, the local radio stations would buy copies and play tracks, and also announce for several days that at a certain time (say 8pm on Thursday) they were going to play the entire album start to finish commercial-free. No prizes for figuring out why listeners would care about such precise scheduling. You'll notice that stations haven't done this for years. The whole notion of an album has changed from the standpoint of radio, too. It'rs true that music taped from FM broadcasts back then didn't sound as good as CD's do now, but MP3's don't sound so great either. Actually, I used to get calls at the station from folks who said that the air processing made them sound better. And we used a little compression, but nothing like you see on the air today. You might like reading Prof. Lessig's new book "Free Culture", available in bookstores or also downloadable from his web site (http://free-culture.org) in pdf form (Creative Commons license). It's a good description of how copyright developed and how its reach has expanded drastically in the past few decades. I have it in HTML form on my own site: http://www.nightsong.com/phr/free-culture (warning, the html file is around 700k). Prof. Lessig seems to think that the free downloads help sales of the printed version, and there are obvious analogies with mp3's. Depends. Part of the thing is that the book and/or the physical album has more of a sense of physical reality, and comes with additional value (ie. nifty liner notes and photos, and in the case of books the ability to read them on the toilet without printing a huge file out). If that value is perceived as being greater than the cost of the product, then yes, downloaders will be the first people to go out and buy it. If not, they will be far less likely to buy it than if they hadn't downloaded it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#28
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
In article ,
Paul Rubin wrote: A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. Digital media changed everything. The people with their Nakamichis and their quiet reception were the same people who spent the big bucks on records, videotapes, cd's. Best case of a 2nd generation tape from the radio was nothing to worry about. Worst case of a Nth generation digital format is a whole nother ballgame. But I don't think the media companies are anywhere near as upset about file sharing as they make themselves out to be. The whole think is a smokescreen for the real nefarious plans. The media companies do not like the idea that people might return to independently making their own music. Pro audio snobs will disagree (and I concur with their views), but the reality is that you can do a pretty damned good job of audio production with pretty damned small resources. And if your product has any appeal, you have quite the unlimited distribution channel, and there's no overhead for any of it. Where the last generations of garage bands had to settle for a 4-track portastudio and however many cassettes they could make labels for at Kinkos, today's garage bands can take for granted 24 bit multitrack, signal paths and distribution entirely in the digital domain, and a distribution channel that's potentially better than anything the industry has ever bought and paid for, and it's all vanishingly near "free." Yes, it takes talent, but that's a constant whether you have a hundred bucks to make your demo or 20 million to make your reunion record. Consumer video is nowhere near caught up with consumer audio. But the folks peddling their commercial, 2-channel audio-only wares are understandably terrified at the idea that an individual can churn out and distribute material that the average consumer cannot discern from their expensive product. I'm not speaking to audiophiles or engineers here, I *know* where the hype collides with the reality. But audiophiles and engineers aren't the audience, and they aren't the consumer. So we end up with media companies making sure that it's always difficult and expensive for an amateur to produce his own creations. They'd really like to go back to cassette tape and vinyl, but they can't. So, out of ideas, they turn to the last resort: influence government to make it illegal to threaten the business model. |
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#29
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
In article ,
Tom Paterson wrote: When do you think the Cult of the CEO is going to decline as a national pastime? When there's enough of them in prison to do a reality show that demonstrates how prisons really don't have golf courses and full service dining rooms. |
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#30
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
In article ,
hank alrich wrote: How much performance royalty money can be expected from P2P? They had a chance to give, say, shoutcast servers the opportunity to acquire ascap licenses just like your diner has on the jukebox, but they asked for unreasonable terms, game over. But really, the goal isn't to get money out of P2P. The goal is to squash it. See, for an independent artist like a singer/songwriter, selling the one recording isn't the goal. The *exposure* is worth *far* more. And there's never been a medium that can provide the kind of exposure that the p2p networks gives naturally. If your stuff is good, it'll get out there because of it's merits, not because of the picture on the jewel case, not because of it's position on an endcap in the department store, and not because some paid salesman suggested that you buy it. People will listen to your stuff because they like it. If you're lucky, they will remember your name, and they will do the legwork of distributing your material for you. Historically that's been the single biggest cost for a struggling band. What a miracle that there's now a way to do that part without work! What a tragedy that the establishment is trying desperately to take that opportunity away from you! But it's for the *children*, you see. The last vinyl thing I was involved in, more of the budget was to pay the *photographer* and costs associated with moving the boxes of discs where they needed to be, than everything else combined! If we'd had P2P in those days, damn, if *only*. I wish more people could see what's really going on with the attack against "p2p". I am very offended when I get the impression that anyone who ever uses p2p for anything is automatically labeled "pirate" and "thief". I feel that infringes upon my rights as an artist, because you're painting my own humble works with that brush, and you're trying to take away the one workable means of distribution that's ever been available, and I have a big problem with that. |
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#31
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
wrote in message ...
Contrary to popular urban myths, downloading doesn't account but for a tiny minorty in drop in cd sales. In fact research shows that cd downloading increases are followed by greater sales for the same cd. It is not unlike radio playtime, the more it is heard, either by download or on the radio, the more likely for a purchase. The music biz needs to wake up and smell the shrink wrap on recordable cdr's. It is a loss in quality of music stupid and manipulation of talent in an attempt to create the next "big" act that is at fault. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994831 CD sales are not down. CD sales tracked by soundscan are down. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
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#32
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
In article writes: A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. Yeah, but he has to do more work than drag-and-drop, and most of today's music collectors won't put up with real time recording, fast-wind-and-search, the pause button, and most of all, not having a source list generated automatically. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#33
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"ryanm" wrote in message ...
lame excuses that people come up with to steal music. If you, or anyone, take music by downloading it, and use it by listening to it, without the copyright owner's permission you are STEALING IT No, it's not, and I'm not going to go into that again. Yes it is, and you won't go into it because you are both morally and legally wrong. Theft involves tangible property, this is a completely different offense with a completely different set of laws that cover it. If you think that's true, go to a doctor, dentist, or barber shop, use their services and walk out without paying. See what happens. It's called theft of services. snip... Actually, the unsigned bands and the indy acts seem to be, by all studies and accounts, getting the *most* benefits from P2P downloading. It gives them instant access to a worldwide market, of people who will d/l their stuff w/o paying, against their will. The are other options. something that they *never* would've been able to get under a label unless they were lucky enough to be one of the (very) few who the labels decide can make a lot of money. It is only the signed acts on the top labels who are selling hundreds of thousands of units a year that are seeing *any* decline in sales, and I do mean *any* decline, which could be attributed to *anything* (the economy, a crap 2nd album, dixie chicks syndrome, etc), not just downloading. Check out the other thread I started called "Some Industry News" for some news articles relating specifically to this subject. I realize the sales decline is/was not only a d/l problem. But someone's desire to do an end-run around the labels does NOT require abandoning moral, fair-to-the-artists-wishes approaches to the situation. I notice you haven't replied to the part of my last post saying that the decision to offer for download should be the artist's, not yours or some freeloader's. Or do you feel that the artist should not have that right? Mikey Nova Music Productions "my turn in the barrel..." |
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#34
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
... "Arny Krueger" writes: It's not exactly the same thing. A radio listener usually can't make up his own play lists. A Kazaa user can. A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. I think he means in radio you can only tape what they play. Meaning if they don't play the songs you want your screwed. Whereas with Kazaa everything is available to you. |
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#35
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
but since the advent of P2P downloading, some artists' back catalog
purchases have gone up significantly. Who? --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#36
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
CD sales are not down. CD sales tracked by soundscan are down.
Care to explain? --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#37
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
P2P is an enormous pain in the neck. I've never used it. Me either. I confess to having made a few real time cassette dubs off the air or from CD's or LP's here and there, but I never saw P2P as being worth the hassle. I know some people who use it and it just sounds like a big mess. Probably, and I'm not all that interested in opening up any part of my computer to a world of folks passing around music that isn't their own, because that sounds like it could turn into unprotected sex easily. I'd rather swap music in person with other poeple who are manipulating musical instruments. Obviously a lot of other people thought it was worth the inconvenience. Napster had something like 60 million users. However, that just means they were willing to go to more trouble than I was. Anyway, if that much of the public think something is a good thing, maybe the public policy that criminalizes it needs to be re-examined. There are some proposals floating around for mechanical royalty schemes for internet downloads similar to broadcast royalties, but the industry seems opposed to anything that gets in the way of their choosing what people are allowed to listen to. Okay, mechanical royalties and performance royalties (what you are calling "broadcast royalties") are two different things. The latter would apply appropriately to streaming broadcasts and the former to downloads. -- ha |
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#38
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
Paul Rubin wrote:
(hank alrich) writes: I think you might want to get with the _definition_ of "performance royalties", Paul. It isn't what you're thinking it is; ASCAP et al are _performance royalty collection organizations_. Cogent discussion of these issues requires working knowledge of the terminology. If an artist is also the composer, then the artist/cpmposer and publisher will receive payment. OK. The fact is though, performers record cover songs and try to get them broadcast, even though don't collect any royalties that way. Right, because in theory that drives both product sales and concert ticket sales. Anyway, if that's your sole gripe, then having a royalty system for internet distribution similar to broadcast royalties would seem to take care of the problem, however the industry seems opposed to that, based on a fundamentally wedged attitude. I wasn't griping at all, just pointing out who earns from what when a tune is boradcast ovr the radio. -- ha |
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#39
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
james wrote:
hank alrich wrote: How much performance royalty money can be expected from P2P? They had a chance to give, say, shoutcast servers the opportunity to acquire ascap licenses just like your diner has on the jukebox, but they asked for unreasonable terms, game over. I'm not up on that but it sounds interesting. What were the terms? Were they different than for a traditional radio station broadcast in amount of money per play? -- ha |
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#40
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Study shows downloading helps cd sales
"Ricky W. Hunt" writes:
A radio listener with a tape deck can do the same thing. I think he means in radio you can only tape what they play. Meaning if they don't play the songs you want your screwed. Whereas with Kazaa everything is available to you. True and valid. However, at least back in the day, you could call a radio station and ask them to play a particular song, and they would play it. |
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