In April, I asked for help in recording a quartet. I finished
recording this weekend and am starting to mix. The comments in the
thread I began really helped but now I have some additional questions:

(1) How do you pan the vocals...like this??? ...baritone 9 left, bass
9 right, high tenor 2 left and reg tenor 2 right?? They each take
solos in different songs...

(2) Was there a better way i should have tracked the vocals?

I ended up tracking each voice seperately so that I would have more
control during mixdown. They have really good voices, but I am glad I
did that as balance was sometimes a problem. I am not sure I used the
mics I had well and would appreciate your opinion: I borrowed to 87s
and put those on the tenors - I used my AKG Solidtube on the baritone
and the Soundelux u99 on the bass. To me the bass sounds tremendous
and the baritone sounds really very good. The high tenor (sometimes
falsetto)sounds kinda screetchy on the u87 and yet to hear him live,
you would say he had a creamy smooth, almost too good if you know what
I mean. I just figured U87s to be great mics and they would give me
very transparent - accurate sound. (BTW, I ran these through Pendulum
MDP-1 and Apogee converters. The tube mics went through an avalon
AD2022 + Apoggee converters and like I said, that combination was
really good.)The piano was tracked via oktava 012s in xy through a
Studio Technologies preamp which sounds ok...maybe a little
mid-rangey.

Thanks,

John

john muir wrote:
In April, I asked for help in recording a quartet. I finished
recording this weekend and am starting to mix. The comments in the
thread I began really helped but now I have some additional questions:

(1) How do you pan the vocals...like this??? ...baritone 9 left, bass
9 right, high tenor 2 left and reg tenor 2 right?? They each take
solos in different songs...

Why not pan them as they stood?

I ended up tracking each voice seperately so that I would have more
control during mixdown. They have really good voices, but I am glad I
did that as balance was sometimes a problem.

(2) Was there a better way I should have tracked the vocals?

I do a 2-track minimalist recording of the whole event, and then overlay the
spot mics on top of it, pretty much as the performers actually stood.

I am not sure I used the
mics I had well and would appreciate your opinion: I borrowed to 87s
and put those on the tenors - I used my AKG Solidtube on the baritone
and the Soundelux u99 on the bass. To me the bass sounds tremendous
and the baritone sounds really very good. The high tenor (sometimes
falsetto)sounds kinda screetchy on the u87 and yet to hear him live,
you would say he had a creamy smooth, almost too good if you know what
I mean.

You can undo some of this with eq appled to the afflicted track, as
required.

john muir wrote:
In April, I asked for help in recording a quartet. I finished
recording this weekend and am starting to mix. The comments in the
thread I began really helped but now I have some additional questions:

(1) How do you pan the vocals...like this??? ...baritone 9 left, bass
9 right, high tenor 2 left and reg tenor 2 right?? They each take
solos in different songs...

Why not pan them as they stood?

I ended up tracking each voice seperately so that I would have more
control during mixdown. They have really good voices, but I am glad I
did that as balance was sometimes a problem.

(2) Was there a better way I should have tracked the vocals?

I do a 2-track minimalist recording of the whole event, and then overlay the
spot mics on top of it, pretty much as the performers actually stood.

I am not sure I used the
mics I had well and would appreciate your opinion: I borrowed to 87s
and put those on the tenors - I used my AKG Solidtube on the baritone
and the Soundelux u99 on the bass. To me the bass sounds tremendous
and the baritone sounds really very good. The high tenor (sometimes
falsetto)sounds kinda screetchy on the u87 and yet to hear him live,
you would say he had a creamy smooth, almost too good if you know what
I mean.

You can undo some of this with eq appled to the afflicted track, as
required.

Thanks Arnie. I panned as they stood and it sounded too heavy on the
right as the baritone and bass stood on the right. I was just
wondering when panning a quartet, do you bring the main vocal to
center and balance the others to each side or do you leave the main
vocal in whatever position they're standing in.

And would you have used the 87 on a tenor? I thought it would probably
be good on just about any voice. I guess I just wasn't that impressed
with the 87.

Thanks,


John

Thanks Arnie. I panned as they stood and it sounded too heavy on the
right as the baritone and bass stood on the right. I was just
wondering when panning a quartet, do you bring the main vocal to
center and balance the others to each side or do you leave the main
vocal in whatever position they're standing in.

And would you have used the 87 on a tenor? I thought it would probably
be good on just about any voice. I guess I just wasn't that impressed
with the 87.

Thanks,


John

john muir wrote:
Thanks Arnie. I panned as they stood and it sounded too heavy on the
right as the baritone and bass stood on the right. I was just
wondering when panning a quartet, do you bring the main vocal to
center and balance the others to each side or do you leave the main
vocal in whatever position they're standing in.

Let's put it this way. The way I do things which is to layer spot mics on a
two-mic recording of the overall performance, there's a natural tension
between how the vocalists are positioned, and how I pan them.

I find that it's possible to shift the panning of the various singers around
some, but its like they are on a sonic rubber band. If I move them around
too much, the band snaps and the naturalness of the mix falls apart.

There's one other dimension besides panning, and that's the level of each
track. I find that there is a small but definate range over which a voice
fits into the mix and blends well enough. I don't think I have to hit the
exact midpoint. I think I have some discression about how I set the level of
the track adn thus the singer, to bring a voice further out of the mix, or
drop it back into the mix.

I would probably address the problem of a bass and baritone that were to
prominent, by cutting their levels by up to a few dB, and letting them slip
back into the mix a little more.

And would you have used the 87 on a tenor? I thought it would probably
be good on just about any voice. I guess I just wasn't that impressed
with the 87.

I have no experience with 87s so I have no idea.

I know that if I dont' like how a mic is working out in a mix, I fire up a
parametric eq on that track, and adjust FR to suit. Eq is yet another sonic
rubber band, but it is one that does have some give to it.

I did suffer for more than a year with SM57s which I felt were overly harsh
and gave an electronic sound. I figured out some parametric settings that
pretty much tamed that. However, in the end I went to vocal mics that were
far smoother, and that seems to be really working out.

john muir wrote:
Thanks Arnie. I panned as they stood and it sounded too heavy on the
right as the baritone and bass stood on the right. I was just
wondering when panning a quartet, do you bring the main vocal to
center and balance the others to each side or do you leave the main
vocal in whatever position they're standing in.

Let's put it this way. The way I do things which is to layer spot mics on a
two-mic recording of the overall performance, there's a natural tension
between how the vocalists are positioned, and how I pan them.

I find that it's possible to shift the panning of the various singers around
some, but its like they are on a sonic rubber band. If I move them around
too much, the band snaps and the naturalness of the mix falls apart.

There's one other dimension besides panning, and that's the level of each
track. I find that there is a small but definate range over which a voice
fits into the mix and blends well enough. I don't think I have to hit the
exact midpoint. I think I have some discression about how I set the level of
the track adn thus the singer, to bring a voice further out of the mix, or
drop it back into the mix.

I would probably address the problem of a bass and baritone that were to
prominent, by cutting their levels by up to a few dB, and letting them slip
back into the mix a little more.

And would you have used the 87 on a tenor? I thought it would probably
be good on just about any voice. I guess I just wasn't that impressed
with the 87.

I have no experience with 87s so I have no idea.

I know that if I dont' like how a mic is working out in a mix, I fire up a
parametric eq on that track, and adjust FR to suit. Eq is yet another sonic
rubber band, but it is one that does have some give to it.

I did suffer for more than a year with SM57s which I felt were overly harsh
and gave an electronic sound. I figured out some parametric settings that
pretty much tamed that. However, in the end I went to vocal mics that were
far smoother, and that seems to be really working out.

john muir wrote:

I ended up tracking each voice seperately

I could end up considering that, but if so, then I would use identical
mics on all voices. I would rather use fewer mics than use non-identical
mics when it is to be A group.

John


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

john muir wrote:

I ended up tracking each voice seperately

I could end up considering that, but if so, then I would use identical
mics on all voices. I would rather use fewer mics than use non-identical
mics when it is to be A group.

John


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

(john muir) wrote in
om:

I ended up tracking each voice seperately so that I would have more
control during mixdown.

If you're going to track separately, you'll need a narrower stereo image
than if you recorded them using a stereo pair.

The pair let the sound of all four voices mix with the room and go two both
channels, with a different sound for each voice in each channel. Panning a
mono signal gives you a pinpoint image somewhere in the L/R spread.

Adding a nice reverb will help blend them together.

Don't pay any attention to the numbers on your controls when trying to
balance levels. If the baritone is heavy, then he's heavy and back off
some.

Also, if you miked closely, you might consider some compression. Dynamic
range decreases with distance as the room effects take over.

(john muir) wrote in
om:

I ended up tracking each voice seperately so that I would have more
control during mixdown.

If you're going to track separately, you'll need a narrower stereo image
than if you recorded them using a stereo pair.

The pair let the sound of all four voices mix with the room and go two both
channels, with a different sound for each voice in each channel. Panning a
mono signal gives you a pinpoint image somewhere in the L/R spread.

Adding a nice reverb will help blend them together.

Don't pay any attention to the numbers on your controls when trying to
balance levels. If the baritone is heavy, then he's heavy and back off
some.

Also, if you miked closely, you might consider some compression. Dynamic
range decreases with distance as the room effects take over.