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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I
want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Hope this makes sense! Thanks James |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:07:54 +0100, James wrote:
I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Was the original done to a click all the way through? If wasn't, then you'll never find a tempo that works. Why not sync the click track to the WAV instead? You can draw a tempo map in Cubase. It's going to be a bit fiddly, but the alternative is a lot of micro edits or time stretching. Make sure you lock the original WAV to sample rather than musical time, so it doesn't move when you change tempo. The easiest way to do this is to put it in the project so it starts at 0:0:00:00. Hope this makes sense! Thanks James |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:28:00 +0000, philicorda wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:07:54 +0100, James wrote: I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Ah, forgot one thing. If the original was done to a click, try changing the tempo up and down by .01 of a bpm or so, and see if the audio starts to line up with the Cubase bar lines by the end of the song. Some DAWs don't quite agree on BPM for some strange reason. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
James wrote:
I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. Overdubbing drums to a complete song takes quite a bit of skill and practice. The setup isn't difficult (depending, of course, on what you really mean by "multi-tracked") but the playing won't be easy. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Even if the original was recorded to a metronome (and they stuck to it) it's difficult to find exactly the right tempo. Try counting beats with a stopwatch and start with that beats-per-minute setting for the Cubase metronome. You'll probably have to tweak it some. But if the tempo wanders, there are really only two things that you can do. You can create a tempo map (tedious) or you can just play along enough times so that you get a feel for where the song is going, and then record. There are programs such as ACID that attempt to find the tempo and will actually let you stretch or compress the song in segments to get it to a steady tempo, but that's a whole lot of work. Better to just set up your mics and drums and play along. You will probably find it easier to move your drum tracks around to match up with the song than the other way around. at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? You don't. Unless you take it apart and put it back together phrase by phrase (in time, of course) the recording is fixed in time, and that determines the song structure. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:07:54 +0100, "James"
wrote: I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Later versions of Cubase have excellent tools for aligning the MIDI tempo map with already-recorded material. Basically all you have to do is drag a barline to the appropriate place on the waveform. This alignment can easily be done every bar, every 8 bars - even every beat if required. But be warned. If the tempo varies enough to make more than occasional re-alignment necessary, a quantised drum groove will sound most odd while following the tempo map. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:07:36 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote:
snip Later versions of Cubase have excellent tools for aligning the MIDI tempo map with already-recorded material. Basically all you have to do is drag a barline to the appropriate place on the waveform. This alignment can easily be done every bar, every 8 bars - even every beat if required. But be warned. If the tempo varies enough to make more than occasional re-alignment necessary, a quantised drum groove will sound most odd while following the tempo map. Wow, that's a new and very useful one for me, and I thought I knew Cubase pretty well. Time to hit the manuals! |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:42:38 GMT, philicorda
wrote: But be warned. If the tempo varies enough to make more than occasional re-alignment necessary, a quantised drum groove will sound most odd while following the tempo map. Wow, that's a new and very useful one for me, and I thought I knew Cubase pretty well. Time to hit the manuals! The "drag to the waveform" thing has been there for a couple of versions. Previously you could do a rather laborious process with hitpoints and a one-shot align function. It's dead easy now. Once you see the tempo map, you can decide whether there's any point in trying to make a drum groove follow it. Sometimes playing the drums live from a keyboard works better, if it's "musical" music (if you see what I mean:-) |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message The "drag to the waveform" thing has been there for a couple of versions. Previously you could do a rather laborious process with hitpoints and a one-shot align function. It's dead easy now. Once you see the tempo map, you can decide whether there's any point in trying to make a drum groove follow it. Sometimes playing the drums live from a keyboard works better, if it's "musical" music (if you see what I mean:-) Great - thanks for that, I'll give it a try. The original recording was recorded perfectly in time so in theory I've just to find the right tempo for it to sync, so I'll try a few tempo fractions first James |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:26:58 +0100, "James"
wrote: "Laurence Payne" wrote in message The "drag to the waveform" thing has been there for a couple of versions. Previously you could do a rather laborious process with hitpoints and a one-shot align function. It's dead easy now. Once you see the tempo map, you can decide whether there's any point in trying to make a drum groove follow it. Sometimes playing the drums live from a keyboard works better, if it's "musical" music (if you see what I mean:-) Great - thanks for that, I'll give it a try. The original recording was recorded perfectly in time so in theory I've just to find the right tempo for it to sync, so I'll try a few tempo fractions first James Select exactly one minute of the tune, and while playing it count the beats (it helps to tap a finger). The tempo falls nicely off the end of that. d |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:26:58 +0100, "James"
wrote: Great - thanks for that, I'll give it a try. The original recording was recorded perfectly in time so in theory I've just to find the right tempo for it to sync, so I'll try a few tempo fractions first If Cubase is available, it's MUCH easier and quicker to just align beat 1 with a bar line, drag (say) bar 16 to the appropriate beat on the waveform. If this results in the whole song staying synched (it might if the audio was recorded to a stable click) you're OK. If not, get more clever. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:26:58 +0100, "James" wrote: Great - thanks for that, I'll give it a try. The original recording was recorded perfectly in time so in theory I've just to find the right tempo for it to sync, so I'll try a few tempo fractions first If Cubase is available, it's MUCH easier and quicker to just align beat 1 with a bar line, drag (say) bar 16 to the appropriate beat on the waveform. If this results in the whole song staying synched (it might if the audio was recorded to a stable click) you're OK. If not, get more clever. The chance of it lining up as if to a click is roughly zero. And enforcing a tempo map on an existing performance is an art at best. -- Les Cargill |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:54:38 -0400, Les Cargill
wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:26:58 +0100, "James" wrote: Great - thanks for that, I'll give it a try. The original recording was recorded perfectly in time so in theory I've just to find the right tempo for it to sync, so I'll try a few tempo fractions first If Cubase is available, it's MUCH easier and quicker to just align beat 1 with a bar line, drag (say) bar 16 to the appropriate beat on the waveform. If this results in the whole song staying synched (it might if the audio was recorded to a stable click) you're OK. If not, get more clever. The chance of it lining up as if to a click is roughly zero. And enforcing a tempo map on an existing performance is an art at best. Maybe we can take James' statement: "The original recording was recorded perfectly in time..." at face value. Maybe not. But it's worth a try. Where tempo varies, deciding what compromises to make while constructing a tempo map is indeed an art. But we're lucky that the tools in Cubase (and doubtless in other good sequencer programs) now make the technical aspect very easy. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Jul 21, 9:07 am, "James" wrote:
I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Hope this makes sense! Thanks James I have added live drums to a recorded session after the fact, and it's not universally true that you always need to provide a good drummer with a click track, it kind of depends on the song, sometimes a song has a compelling enough performance that the drummer can just play along. You may have to reverse engineer a good count off though. More cowbell! Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:23:51 -0700 (PDT), WillStG
wrote: I have added live drums to a recorded session after the fact, and it's not universally true that you always need to provide a good drummer with a click track, it kind of depends on the song, sometimes a song has a compelling enough performance that the drummer can just play along. You may have to reverse engineer a good count off though. More cowbell! Of course, if a track has intrinsic rhythm to that degree, the question arises whether it NEEDS a drum kit at all. Maybe add some percussion sweetening. But if it drives already... What a pity so much recorded music is constructed in this way, rather than played. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
I wouldn't discount what I do pretty regularly, because sometimes even
the best syncing method isn't 100%, and actually sometimes if it's in sync it still might sound like it missed the "pocket", since the players didn't play with the drummer as feel influence. It's like the concept of making a sculpture of an elephant by chipping away anything that doesn't look like an elephant. I put the drums in, with whatever method of syncing, then go bar by bar and anything that doesn't sit right with me I move, rahther than assume it could be synced better. Because even if the transients or the actual tempo says it's lined up, that doesn't mean it's the best place to be. It's time consuming, but I just make a mug of coffee and have my manual way with it. It's a shame to do it in a normal session, but with in an situation like this I usually don't go with how tracks line up. d |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
On 21 Jul 2009, "James" wrote in
rec.audio.pro: I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I think you're going about it backwards. Instead of getting the audio to line up with the click track, you want to get the click track to line up with the audio. Are you planning to have a real drummer play along with the track? Or are you going to program a computerized drum track? If the former, just record a MIDI click track in real time to use as a metronome, tapping the beats on your keyboard. If the latter... I don't know Cubase to make a specific suggestion, but it can be pretty easily done with Cakewalk Sonar. Those two products seem to be always playing catchup with with each other, so I wouldn't be surprised if Cubase can do it, too. In Sonar, you can listen to the WAV track and record a MIDI click track along with it, one click per quarter note. Then you use the Fit Improvisation feature which will adjust the tempo map, adjusting the tempo slightly here (MIDI only, the audio isn't touched) and there so that the bar lines line up in the right places. After that, you can program your rhythm track, use loops, or whatever. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
"Nil" wrote in message Are you planning to have a real drummer play along with the track? Or are you going to program a computerized drum track? If the former, just record a MIDI click track in real time to use as a metronome, tapping the beats on your keyboard. I'm planning to record the drum track - putting acoustic drums down to this track is a little project I have. Its an extremely well recorded, slick pop track, similar in style to the better 'Go West' material. As such it needs to be very tight without being mechanical - tapping along simply isn't precise enough; that would be no different to playing along as it is. I can quite easily record the track without a click, but I'd like to do a really good job of this and ensure beat placement is entirely consistent throughout the recording and metronomically sound (yes, I'm one of those really anal drummers who analyse precise beat placement and define what limb plays at what part of the beat; kick and hat is dead centre, snare slightly anticipated on this track. Its very difficult to record a track like this without metronomic reference). |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
"James" wrote in message ... I have a final mix of a song track (minus drums) as a stereo WAV. What I want to do is add multi-tracked drums to it and try and mix it so that it sounds natural. For starters, I am trying to get the WAV to sync to the click track so that I can at least work with it using cubase's metronome and keep the additional recording focussed. Any suggestions as to how I do this? I know the original recorded tempo, but at the moment the audio is drifting out by the end of the track. How do I lock the audio track down into the cubase song structure? Hope this makes sense! Thanks James I have Nuendo and know how to warp the tempo map to a song. This will make you midi click go with the song. I have seen this done with Cubase too. 1) put clock into tempo map mode. 2) put timeline into bars and beats mode. 3) get the tempo and time signature close to the songs starting tempo 4) set the first beat in the song to happen right at the start of the clip (you can change this later) 5) set the cursor pointer to "time warp" ( arrow,sicsors,glue,timewarp etc.) 6)drag the first beat in the song to a "one"beat and lock the position of the song there. 6a) put markers on all the ones as you play the song. 6b) set snap to events 7)learn how the time warp cursor drags the subsequent ones on the timeline to the place in the song where the ones occur and hold shift while applying the warp. This locks that new one beat to the place in the song. There will not be an event for each lock in the tempo map. if this is played live than you may have to do this every few bars. Looking at the tempo map will tell you how good your cadence is. Now your midi track will play your sequencer in time with your song. peace dawg |
#19
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
"Wecan do it" wrote in message I have Nuendo and know how to warp the tempo map to a song. This will make you midi click go with the song. I have seen this done with Cubase too. Many thanks - I'll give this a try |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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'Adding' a drum track to a mastered stereo track in Cubase
my pleasure to be of assistance.
peace dawg "James" wrote in message ... "Wecan do it" wrote in message I have Nuendo and know how to warp the tempo map to a song. This will make you midi click go with the song. I have seen this done with Cubase too. Many thanks - I'll give this a try |
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