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jwvm jwvm is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...fidelity/print
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straightnut straightnut is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 29, 12:11*am, jwvm wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid...


If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.

Jeff
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Peter Larsen[_2_] Peter Larsen[_2_] is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote:

On Dec 29, 12:11 am, jwvm wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid...


If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.


Teach her quality!

Jeff



Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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Ron Capik Ron Capik is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote:

On Dec 29, 12:11 am, jwvm wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid...


If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.

Jeff


Not all that long before high fidelity music was only being enjoyed
in live performance. ;-)

Then too, seems much of live performance has also been corrupted
by volume wars. ;-} ;-( :-{

Later...

Ron Capik
--


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straightnut straightnut is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 29, 9:13*am, Ron Capik wrote:
straightnut wrote:
On Dec 29, 12:11 am, jwvm wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid....


If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.


Jeff


Not all that long before high fidelity music was only being enjoyed
in live performance. * ;-)


I forgot about live performance. Can't get more high fidelity than
that. I bet many young people don't realize that recording can
actually approach it. Though they may not care all that much. As long
as they like the music, it wouldn't really matter. It's like there's a
restoration program in our brains to make up for what's lacking so we
can enjoy it.

Jeff


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straightnut straightnut is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 29, 5:06*am, "Peter Larsen" wrote:
straightnut wrote:
On Dec 29, 12:11 am, jwvm wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid...

If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.


Teach her quality!


She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.

Jeff

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Peter Larsen[_2_] Peter Larsen[_2_] is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote:

Teach her quality!


She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.


You could start with a compact better quality playback system ... quality is
a life strategy and not always costly.

Jeff



Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote:

She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.


So play her music through your system for her.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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straightnut straightnut is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 30, 8:17*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
straightnut wrote:

She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.


So play her music through your system for her.


Then I'd be running out of the room.
Jeff
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

"straightnut" wrote ...
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
straightnut wrote:

She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her
favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.


So play her music through your system for her.


Then I'd be running out of the room.

Mayabe her "music" sounds better with the doppler
effect of running away from it.



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote:
On Dec 30, 8:17=A0am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
straightnut wrote:

She'd run out of the room if I turned my cd's on her. I'm her favorite
uncle. I couldn't do that to her. Though we do agree on Nirvana.


So play her music through your system for her.


Then I'd be running out of the room.


One of the critical skills to learn in the audio production field is the
ability to sit there and smile rather than running out of the room.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 30, 12:20*am, straightnut wrote:

It's like there's a
restoration program in our brains to make up for what's lacking so we
can enjoy it.



Not to mention the fact that the cassettes we used to cherish didn't
sound better than today's mp3s, but we'll put the former above the
latter anyway : )
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

rboy wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:20=A0am, straightnut wrote:

It's like there's a
restoration program in our brains to make up for what's lacking so we
can enjoy it.


Not to mention the fact that the cassettes we used to cherish didn't
sound better than today's mp3s, but we'll put the former above the
latter anyway : )


Cherish? When cassettes were a popular release format, everybody _hated_
them. Getting decent duplication consistency was a nightmare too.

Much as I hate MP3s, I am very glad that I will never have to deal with
another bin loop machine again as long as I live.

At least the MP3 was actually designed for music, which is more than you
can say for the compact cassette.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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MG[_2_] MG[_2_] is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
rboy wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:20=A0am, straightnut wrote:

It's like there's a
restoration program in our brains to make up for what's lacking so we
can enjoy it.


Not to mention the fact that the cassettes we used to cherish didn't
sound better than today's mp3s, but we'll put the former above the
latter anyway : )


Cherish? When cassettes were a popular release format, everybody _hated_
them. Getting decent duplication consistency was a nightmare too.

Much as I hate MP3s, I am very glad that I will never have to deal with
another bin loop machine again as long as I live.

At least the MP3 was actually designed for music, which is more than you
can say for the compact cassette.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Will nobody defend the lowly cassette?

I never bought any pre-recorded ones. I made something of an investment in
a 3-head deck and experimented with a lot of different tape until I found
what worked best for me. I used some of these cassettes from the early 70s
until, well, now, and they still work. No, they don't sound better than
MP3s, but they sound differently bad, and not as unpleasant to my ear,
anyway. I didn't have a CD player in my car until 2000 or so (although I
could use the occasional discman) and every now and then I have to use one
of the kids' cars, both of which are old enough to have factory cassette
decks, and I pull out some of those old tapes and they still work. It was
the best portable (automobile, anyway) format for quite awhile. I'm not one
of the CD bashers or vinyl junkies, and I've moved on, but I appreciated it
when I had it. It sure beat listening to radio drift in and out while
traveling, and kept me interested for many mong trips over the years.

And every time my wife asks me if we can get rid of them, the answer is a
loud NO.

mg



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

MG wrote:
No, they don't sound better than MP3s, but they sound differently
bad, and not as unpleasant to my ear, anyway.


They certainly dopn't grab some minor instrumental or musical part and make
it into a solo !

And the reverb detail is still there, despite decaying into the mhist.

geoff




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Nick Brown Nick Brown is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On 31 Dec, 03:11, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

One of the critical skills to learn in the audio production field is the
ability to sit there and smile rather than running out of the room.
--scott


You know, I always had the sneaking suspicion I was missing a fairly
major trick, and *there* it is. Damn ;-)

Happy new year, folks.

-Nick
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Carey Carlan Carey Carlan is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

straightnut wrote in
:

I forgot about live performance. Can't get more high fidelity than
that. I bet many young people don't realize that recording can
actually approach it. Though they may not care all that much. As long
as they like the music, it wouldn't really matter. It's like there's a
restoration program in our brains to make up for what's lacking so we
can enjoy it.


Some of those who have been to concerts have still never heard live
performance. Putting a live signal through a compression masher is just as
easy as a recorded source. If all you hear is the PA system, you're no
better off.
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Bill[_5_] Bill[_5_] is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

Is this a gender thing? My wife couldn't care less about my excellent
surround sound stereo I hooked up to the DVD player. That amazes me.
How you can watch Amadeus through the TV alone once you've heard it
through a decent sound system.

Not unusual to hear a woman turn up her nose at surround sound. Is this
biological? Cultural? Coincidence? Are there men out there who don't
care about high fidelity?

straightnut wrote:
On Dec 29, 12:11 am, jwvm wrote:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...th_of_high_fid...



If you're never exposed to high fidelity, you don't realize what
you're missing. My 15 year old niece is perfectly happy listening
through cheap ear buds that came with her mp3 player. She even likes
her 3 inch $10 stereo speakers that her player can plug into. But she
truly loves music. I can't stand the music she loves, but I can tell
that she needs her music more than I need mine.
Before high fidelity, music was being enjoyed as well. We make do with
what's available. But once you've had a taste, you don't want to have
to settle for anything less.

Jeff

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

Bill wrote:
Is this a gender thing? My wife couldn't care less about my excellent
surround sound stereo I hooked up to the DVD player. That amazes me.
How you can watch Amadeus through the TV alone once you've heard it
through a decent sound system.

Not unusual to hear a woman turn up her nose at surround sound. Is this
biological? Cultural? Coincidence? Are there men out there who don't
care about high fidelity?


I fear that surround sound is most often the opposite of high fidelity.

And you'd have thought we'd have learned from the whole quad fiasco too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Dec 30 2007, 11:15*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Not to mention the fact that the cassettes we used to cherish didn't
sound better than today's mp3s, but we'll put the former above the
latter anyway *: *)


Cherish? *When cassettes were a popular release format, everybody _hated_
them. *Getting decent duplication consistency was a nightmare too.

Much as I hate MP3s, I am very glad that I will never have to deal with
another bin loop machine again as long as I live.



Well, I *was* saying that it wasn't better. But as a consumer it was
all we had if we wanted to listen to J Geils in the car, so I stand by
my "cherish"ed recollections. I was a listener, didn't have bin loops
machines to cloud my joy.

Smileys throughout.


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[email protected] audioaesthetic@gmail.com is offline
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On Dec 31 2007, 3:49 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
And you'd have thought we'd have learned from the whole quad fiasco too.
--scott



oh do you think that Electric Ladyland will be released on
surround???

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wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 3:49 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
And you'd have thought we'd have learned from the whole quad fiasco too.


oh do you think that Electric Ladyland will be released on
surround???


I am sure it will be, but I bet only in new mixes that bear no resemblance
to the original quad mixes.

The big labels have very few people left who remember quad, and the folks
that DO remember it only remember it as a disaster and want nothing to do
with the old quad mixes. Consequently a large part of our history is
inacessible.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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jwvm jwvm is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

On Jan 1, 5:15 pm, rboy wrote:

Well, I *was* saying that it wasn't better. But as a consumer it was
all we had if we wanted to listen to J Geils in the car, so I stand by
my "cherish"ed recollections. I was a listener, didn't have bin loops
machines to cloud my joy.


Cassettes were really a disaster in the car. If you think that CDRs
are highly unreliable, they look like the Rock of Gibraltar compared
to a cassette in a car for a month or two in the summer. The biggest
thrill, however, was trying to play them in the dead of winter. If you
liked loads of flutter as a sound effect, you were all set. Then, of
course, tapes would frequently jam in the player with gobs of tape
wrapped around the capstan, especially with the long-playing
cassettes. CDs get stuck in players occasionally too but much less
often than cassettes. Even if you have to burn a new CDR, its much
faster than making another tape due to a jam.
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars


"jwvm" wrote in message
...
On Jan 1, 5:15 pm, rboy wrote:

Well, I *was* saying that it wasn't better. But as a consumer it was
all we had if we wanted to listen to J Geils in the car, so I stand by
my "cherish"ed recollections. I was a listener, didn't have bin loops
machines to cloud my joy.


Cassettes were really a disaster in the car. If you think that CDRs
are highly unreliable, they look like the Rock of Gibraltar compared
to a cassette in a car for a month or two in the summer. The biggest
thrill, however, was trying to play them in the dead of winter. If you
liked loads of flutter as a sound effect, you were all set. Then, of
course, tapes would frequently jam in the player with gobs of tape
wrapped around the capstan, especially with the long-playing
cassettes. CDs get stuck in players occasionally too but much less
often than cassettes. Even if you have to burn a new CDR, its much
faster than making another tape due to a jam.


I used cassettes in the car for roughly 25 years. Never had a jam. Of
course, I stuck to 90s or shorter, and stayed with Maxell and TDK primarily.
Also kept them out of direct sun, and in winter let the car warm a bit. It
wasn't all _that_ hard.

mg



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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:01:28 -0800 (PST), jwvm wrote:

Cassettes were really a disaster in the car. If you think that CDRs
are highly unreliable, they look like the Rock of Gibraltar compared
to a cassette in a car for a month or two in the summer. The biggest
thrill, however, was trying to play them in the dead of winter. If you
liked loads of flutter as a sound effect, you were all set. Then, of
course, tapes would frequently jam in the player with gobs of tape
wrapped around the capstan, especially with the long-playing
cassettes. CDs get stuck in players occasionally too but much less
often than cassettes. Even if you have to burn a new CDR, its much
faster than making another tape due to a jam.


They worked OK in mine.


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

In article , MG wrote:
"jwvm" wrote in message
...
On Jan 1, 5:15 pm, rboy wrote:

Well, I *was* saying that it wasn't better. But as a consumer it was
all we had if we wanted to listen to J Geils in the car, so I stand by
my "cherish"ed recollections. I was a listener, didn't have bin loops
machines to cloud my joy.


Cassettes were really a disaster in the car. If you think that CDRs
are highly unreliable, they look like the Rock of Gibraltar compared
to a cassette in a car for a month or two in the summer. The biggest
thrill, however, was trying to play them in the dead of winter. If you
liked loads of flutter as a sound effect, you were all set. Then, of
course, tapes would frequently jam in the player with gobs of tape
wrapped around the capstan, especially with the long-playing
cassettes. CDs get stuck in players occasionally too but much less
often than cassettes. Even if you have to burn a new CDR, its much
faster than making another tape due to a jam.


I used cassettes in the car for roughly 25 years. Never had a jam. Of
course, I stuck to 90s or shorter, and stayed with Maxell and TDK primarily.
Also kept them out of direct sun, and in winter let the car warm a bit. It
wasn't all _that_ hard.


A lot of it has to do with the tape and shells used. I learned very soon
NEVER to use the high precision Shape shells for dubs for customers... the
first time they left them in a hot car they would start to jam. The cheap
generic white shells had much poorer azimuth stability, but they wouldn't
get damaged in a hot car.

God, I hated cassettes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Yet another take on the loudness wars

Sorry-- my carelessness. I used the phrase in a generic sense to refer
to the hardware-- I don't mean surround sound at all. I mean high
fidelity.

My point is the same: my wife doesn't care about the high fidelity. She
says she's quite content with the TV speakers.

I once noticed that the stereo in the dining room was only playing
through one speaker. Apparently it was doing this for weeks. She
hadn't noticed.



Les Cargill wrote:


Please do not confuse surround with high fidelity.

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