[[email protected]]

Hmmm, for some reason my preferred connection isn't posting
newsgroup articles since Saturday. Will try this.

On Sat 2011-Dec-03 14:25, Scott Dorsey writes:
The other problem I see is that folks aren't going to get
back to really appreciating music as music until music
appreciation is more widely taught in schools, and that
means learning wtf instruments that aren't all
electronically produced sound like, and the joy they can
bring to both player and listener.

I think it's the parents' job to do that, but if the schools have to
do that, well, that's fine too.

HOw are the parents going to do that, they don't know
either! My parents didn't know that, really. They didn't
get that. I got it at school. You have to remember my
mother thinks Boots Randolf and Danny DAvis, Ray Conniff,
etc. is quality music rotfl My dad grew up on a farm, and music wasn't a big
part of his life either. HE didn't know
a horn from the horse nebula. Had it not been for school
shoving it at me and exposing me to itI never would have
picked up on it. Remember, I'm not a young whippersnapper
either, so think about the kids of today, and parents who
listened to nothing but rock and pop, our generation, many
of those were not taught this at home. The parents can't
teach what they don't themselves grok.

Most of the kids today have never sat down and _listened_ to music
and picked it apart and tried to figure out what went into it. If
anything, I think doing this with classical music is easier than
doing it with rock since so many rock and pop tracks today have
extreme layering with a lot of parts compared with a string quartet.

I agree wholehearteedly, it's what also makes you think
about arrangements, how the pieces fit together. YOu can
translate that very well to pop and rock, but unless you
understand the basic building components you shouldn't be
making creative musical decisions, just as I shouldn't be
permitted to drive your church bus.

And this is why I think learning to listen to classical music is a
good first step toward learning to listen to rock music. Pop music
isn't designed to listen to closely....

MOst of it isn't really designed to be anything but the
flavor of the month. That which is was designed by folks
who themselves appreciate good music. It's why a chef I was reading an article
about earlier today blindfolds his
students when it comes time to eat what they prepare, so
that their whole sensory input is based on what they smell,
and what goes in the mouth. YOu can't know what you've been
taught to appreciate, or even understand why it is that you
like one dish adn don't like another. This imho is why most modern mainstream
music today sucks! iT wasn't created with anybody who has any real appreciation
of the elements that
make great music. IT's why the Beatles with George Martin
surpass the Beatles with anybody else, or as individuals.
The whole was greater than the sum of tis parts, in large
due to George Martin.

I think getting people to actually sit down and listen to music is
90% of the struggle, but how to accomplish this I don't know. I am
not sure music appreciation class is the solution but then I was
kicked out of elementary school choir for yodeling and did not
experience much benefit from such classes.

Can relate to that. A buddy of mine who taught music
professionally was taught that parallel thirds were the big
don't go there too. when i first played Booker T and the
mg's doing Green Onions he did a wtf. Then I told him that
there were people making millions writing songs using
parallel third chord changes.

I dig my ROland 88 key
electronic piano for touring, but I've found myself enjoying my practice
sessions more even when playing a tuned spinet
or upright in an average room than I enjoy them when I throw the switch
because
I've either got to listen to the dinky
speakers that get funky at normal piano levels of sound, or
plug the damned thing into an amp and because of the room's
characteristics listen a litle louder than I like. oh
well.

Clearly you need a travel melodeon.

Maybe, it works, and I still practice enough, but that
acoustic piano is just more satisfying on so many levels to
create music on.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article ,
wrote:

Hmmm, for some reason my preferred connection isn't posting
newsgroup articles since Saturday. Will try this.

On Sat 2011-Dec-03 14:25, Scott Dorsey writes:
The other problem I see is that folks aren't going to get
back to really appreciating music as music until music
appreciation is more widely taught in schools, and that
means learning wtf instruments that aren't all
electronically produced sound like, and the joy they can
bring to both player and listener.

I think it's the parents' job to do that, but if the schools have to
do that, well, that's fine too.

HOw are the parents going to do that, they don't know
either! My parents didn't know that, really. They didn't
get that. I got it at school. You have to remember my
mother thinks Boots Randolf and Danny DAvis, Ray Conniff,
etc. is quality music rotfl My dad grew up on a farm, and music wasn't a
big
part of his life either. HE didn't know
a horn from the horse nebula. Had it not been for school
shoving it at me and exposing me to itI never would have
picked up on it. Remember, I'm not a young whippersnapper
either, so think about the kids of today, and parents who
listened to nothing but rock and pop, our generation, many
of those were not taught this at home. The parents can't
teach what they don't themselves grok.

Most of the kids today have never sat down and _listened_ to music
and picked it apart and tried to figure out what went into it. If
anything, I think doing this with classical music is easier than
doing it with rock since so many rock and pop tracks today have
extreme layering with a lot of parts compared with a string quartet.

I agree wholehearteedly, it's what also makes you think
about arrangements, how the pieces fit together. YOu can
translate that very well to pop and rock, but unless you
understand the basic building components you shouldn't be
making creative musical decisions, just as I shouldn't be
permitted to drive your church bus.

And this is why I think learning to listen to classical music is a
good first step toward learning to listen to rock music. Pop music
isn't designed to listen to closely....

MOst of it isn't really designed to be anything but the
flavor of the month. That which is was designed by folks
who themselves appreciate good music. It's why a chef I was reading an
article
about earlier today blindfolds his
students when it comes time to eat what they prepare, so
that their whole sensory input is based on what they smell,
and what goes in the mouth. YOu can't know what you've been
taught to appreciate, or even understand why it is that you
like one dish adn don't like another. This imho is why most modern
mainstream
music today sucks! iT wasn't created with anybody who has any real
appreciation
of the elements that
make great music. IT's why the Beatles with George Martin
surpass the Beatles with anybody else, or as individuals.
The whole was greater than the sum of tis parts, in large
due to George Martin.

I think getting people to actually sit down and listen to music is
90% of the struggle, but how to accomplish this I don't know. I am
not sure music appreciation class is the solution but then I was
kicked out of elementary school choir for yodeling and did not
experience much benefit from such classes.

Can relate to that. A buddy of mine who taught music
professionally was taught that parallel thirds were the big
don't go there too. when i first played Booker T and the
mg's doing Green Onions he did a wtf. Then I told him that
there were people making millions writing songs using
parallel third chord changes.

I dig my ROland 88 key
electronic piano for touring, but I've found myself enjoying my practice
sessions more even when playing a tuned spinet
or upright in an average room than I enjoy them when I throw the switch
because
I've either got to listen to the dinky
speakers that get funky at normal piano levels of sound, or
plug the damned thing into an amp and because of the room's
characteristics listen a litle louder than I like. oh
well.

Clearly you need a travel melodeon.

Maybe, it works, and I still practice enough, but that
acoustic piano is just more satisfying on so many levels to
create music on.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

The state of arts (including music) education in this country is a very
sad indicator of where we are as a country. As a more-than-full-time
music educator, performer, and administrator since 1979, I'm very
saddened by the average state of things across the country.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[polymod]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,

The state of arts (including music) education in this country is a very
sad indicator of where we are as a country. As a more-than-full-time
music educator, performer, and administrator since 1979, I'm very
saddened by the average state of things across the country.

Amen.
As a professional piano tuner for about the same amount of years, I work in
many school systems.
For years the pianos have been treated like musical instruments, lasting
decades in pristine condition.

Now they get banged on like they're a toy....if the piano is lucky. Even in
front of uninterested teachers oblivious to the damage being done.
I'm seeing 4 year old $5,000+ pianos getting trashed.
I'm seeing a soundboard caved in due to an angry teen's kick.
I'm seeing a 1960 Baldwin R being used as a workbench, complete with
circular saw and screws (which eventualy found their way between the plate
and the soundboard.
Sad indeed.


Poly

[[email protected]]

On Dec 5, 11:08*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article ,
wrote:









Hmmm, for some reason my preferred connection isn't posting
newsgroup articles since Saturday. *Will try this.

On Sat 2011-Dec-03 14:25, Scott Dorsey writes:
The other problem I see is that folks aren't going to get
back to really appreciating music as music until music
appreciation is more widely taught in schools, and that
means learning wtf instruments that aren't all
electronically produced sound like, and the joy they can
bring to both player and listener.

I think it's the parents' job to do that, but if the schools have to
do that, well, that's fine too.

HOw are the parents going to do that, they don't know
either! *My parents didn't know that, really. *They didn't
get that. *I got it at school. *You have to remember my
mother thinks Boots Randolf and Danny DAvis, Ray Conniff,
etc. is quality music rotfl *My dad grew up on a farm, and music wasn't a
big
part of his life either. *HE didn't know
a horn from the horse nebula. *Had it not been for school
shoving it at me and exposing me to itI never would have
picked up on it. *Remember, I'm not a young whippersnapper
either, so think about the kids of today, and parents who
listened to nothing but rock and pop, our generation, many
of those were not taught this at home. *The parents can't
teach what they don't themselves grok.

Most of the kids today have never sat down and _listened_ to music
and *picked it apart and tried to figure out what went into it. *If
anything, I think doing this with classical music is easier than
doing it with rock since so many rock and pop tracks today have
extreme layering with a lot of parts compared with a string quartet.

I agree wholehearteedly, it's what also makes you think
about arrangements, how the pieces fit together. *YOu can
translate that very well to pop and rock, but unless you
understand the basic building components you shouldn't be
making creative musical decisions, just as I shouldn't be
permitted to drive your church bus.

And this is why I think learning to listen to classical music is a
good first step toward learning to listen to rock music. *Pop music
isn't designed to listen to closely....

MOst of it isn't really designed to be anything but the
flavor of the month. *That which is was designed by folks
who themselves appreciate good music. *It's why a chef I was reading an
article
about earlier today blindfolds his
students when it comes time to eat what they prepare, so
that their whole sensory input is based on what they smell,
and what goes in the mouth. YOu can't know what you've been
taught to appreciate, or even understand why it is that you
like one dish adn don't like another. *This imho is why most modern
mainstream
music today sucks! *iT wasn't created with anybody who has any real
appreciation
of the elements that
make great music. *IT's why the Beatles with George Martin
surpass the Beatles with anybody else, or as individuals.
The whole was greater than the sum of tis parts, in large
due to George Martin.

I think getting people to actually sit down and listen to music is
90% of the struggle, but how to accomplish this I don't know. *I am
not sure music appreciation class is the solution but then I was
kicked out of elementary school choir for yodeling and did not
experience much benefit from such classes.

Can relate to that. *A buddy of mine who taught music
professionally was taught that parallel thirds were the big
don't go there too. *when i first played Booker T and the
mg's doing Green Onions he did a wtf. *Then I told him that
there were people making millions writing songs using
parallel third chord changes.

I dig my ROland 88 key
electronic piano for touring, but I've found myself enjoying my practice
sessions more even when playing a tuned spinet
or upright in an average room than I enjoy them when I throw the switch
because
I've either got to listen to the dinky
speakers that get funky at normal piano levels of sound, or
plug the damned thing into an amp and because of the room's
characteristics listen a litle louder than I like. *oh
well.

Clearly you need a travel melodeon.

Maybe, it works, and I still practice enough, but that
acoustic piano is just more satisfying on so many levels to
create music on.

Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com

The state of arts (including music) education in this country is a very
sad indicator of where we are as a country. *As a more-than-full-time
music educator, performer, and administrator since 1979, I'm very
saddened by the average state of things across the country.

--www.jennifermartinmusic.com

Yeahbut.....Gummint IS NOT the solution.

Governments don't do anything well or efficiently.For that and other
reasons government must be strictly limited in its sphere. When the
Federal government had NO role in schooling and public schools were
subject to local control and had competition from churches and other
entities the schools worked a lot better.

Let's face it, education was MUCH BETTER before 1965 for just about
everyone.

There is no group today you can point to and say that things are
better for. It doesn't exist. But there are a lot of educrats living
the life of Riley and earning retirements that are twice or three
times what any private business would pay.

[Trevor]

wrote in message
...
Governments don't do anything well or efficiently.

Totally agree, NOR does greed motivated private enterprise unfortunately,
which leaves very little else :-(

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

Let's face it, education was MUCH BETTER before 1965 for just about
everyone.

I don't think so, really. Most of what I remember about education in that
era was being forced to memorize things I didn't understand and being beaten.
I did eventually learn why multiplication was useful, but to this day I can
tell you there are 160 square rods to an acre without much of a good intuitive
idea about how large a square rod really is. I don't see how being slapped on
the knuckles with a ruler on a regular basis improved my learning.

Education in this country has been pretty awful for most of my life. It's
not particularly good today, but I don't think it has been any better.

There is no group today you can point to and say that things are
better for. It doesn't exist. But there are a lot of educrats living
the life of Riley and earning retirements that are twice or three
times what any private business would pay.

Sounds like things are pretty good for them, then.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."