[Nate Najar]

man what great folks. I had been emailing back and forth with Wes about this and that over the last few months and he has always been very gracious and helpful. So I'm in LA for a few days doing some shows with a latin band I work in, and I called AEA about a shop visit. So after rehearsal today I made my way to Pasadena and had a fantastic time over there. I am so grateful for the hospitality they gave me.

The front of the shop is an incredible microphone museum. The old style shotgun mics are a trip to say the least. And they showed me where and how they manufacture and assemble the microphones, including the actual ribbons themselves. so cool. Physics are an amazing thing.

so I'm recording my new trio record in January at Nola in NYC and AEA is providing me some mics and pres for the date. I'm looking forward to hearing the new KU4 on my guitar.... well... Charlie's guitar. Yeah, I'm playing Charlie Byrd's Ramirez on my new record. I'm a lucky guy!

N

[Mike Rivers]

On 12/20/2011 2:49 AM, Nate Najar wrote:
man what great folks.

Wes and company are the greatest and, as you no doubt know,
is a great fan of guitar music.. Glad you got together, and
cool about the guitar.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Nate Najar" wrote in message
news:28882483.435.1324367393829.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqba2...
And they showed me where and how they manufacture and assemble the
microphones, including the actual ribbons themselves. so cool. Physics are
an amazing thing.

Intresting comment given that if you really understand the physics of making
good microphones, ribbons are probably not the best way to go.

Ribbon mics are legacy technology and give you a bunch of hard-to-change
parameters in a figurative sealed bag. If they do what you want that is
great, but if you need something else, making big changes inside the bag is
tough.

That all said, I'm having fun with two CAD 1700VPs and a CAD 1800VP. They
would be an example of opening up the sealed bag of parameters just a
little.

[hank alrich]

Nate Najar wrote:

man what great folks. I had been emailing back and forth with Wes about
this and that over the last few months and he has always been very
gracious and helpful. So I'm in LA for a few days doing some shows with a
latin band I work in, and I called AEA about a shop visit. So after
rehearsal today I made my way to Pasadena and had a fantastic time over
there. I am so grateful for the hospitality they gave me.

The front of the shop is an incredible microphone museum. The old style
shotgun mics are a trip to say the least. And they showed me where and
how they manufacture and assemble the microphones, including the actual
ribbons themselves. so cool. Physics are an amazing thing.

so I'm recording my new trio record in January at Nola in NYC and AEA is
providing me some mics and pres for the date. I'm looking forward to
hearing the new KU4 on my guitar.... well... Charlie's guitar. Yeah, I'm
playing Charlie Byrd's Ramirez on my new record. I'm a lucky guy!

N

Congrats on all of that, Nate!

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Arny Krueger wrote:

Intresting comment given that if you really understand the physics of making
good microphones, ribbons are probably not the best way to go.

WTF, Arny? A bunch of bad turkey for Thanksgiving or something?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Arny Krueger wrote:

Intresting comment given that if you really understand the physics of
making
good microphones, ribbons are probably not the best way to go.

WTF, Arny? A bunch of bad turkey for Thanksgiving or something?

Strange comment given how ballistic you went over my comments about the
simplistic eq in that guitar preamp.

More to the point, is there any actual informed technical comments about the
point that I am raising, or comments about the alternative, namely modern
mics with bidirectional patterns.

[William Sommerwerck]

Arny Krueger wrote:

Intresting comment given that if you really understand the physics of
making good microphones, ribbons are probably not the best way to go.

You're joking, Arnyn't you?

One of the desirable characteristics of an acoustic transducer is that it
should have a very low unit mass. That is, its motion should be heavily
damped by the air around it. This greatly reduces the reactive component of
its movement.

Why do you think (true) ribbon speakers and mics are generally
well-respected for their sound quality?

Now, if you want to raise issues about the need for a transformer to
increase its output, or the general fraGEELity * of ribbon transducers, I
won't argue. But you said "the physics of making good microphones".

* It's almost Christmas. I couldn't resist.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...

Arny Krueger wrote:

Intresting comment given that if you really understand the physics of
making good microphones, ribbons are probably not the best way to go.

You're joking, Arny aren't you?

Not at all.

One of the desirable characteristics of an acoustic transducer is that it
should have a very low unit mass. That is, its motion should be heavily
damped by the air around it. This greatly reduces the reactive component
of
its movement.

Why do you think (true) ribbon speakers and mics are generally
well-respected for their sound quality?

AFAIK, that would be a made-up fact. Even among just professional
microphones and speakers, ribbon transducers represent only a tiny fraction
of the market. IOW, just about everybody avoids them just about all of the
time.

Now, if you want to raise issues about the need for a transformer to
increase its output, or the general fraGEELity * of ribbon transducers, I
won't argue. But you said "the physics of making good microphones".

I can still remember when professional audio people working in the
mainstream took ribbon mics very seriously. Like in the early 1950s.

What is the dominant microphone technology for profesional mics, today?

What are the top two dominant microphone technologies for professional mics,
today?

How about 10 years ago?

What technology is used to build the most mics with serious pretentions to
high quality or even highest quality?

What is the market share of ribbon mics in the professional market?

I suspect that even among bipolar microphones for professional use, ribbons
are in the minority.

I rest my case









* It's almost Christmas. I couldn't resist.

[William Sommerwerck]

Arny, there's a huge distinction between quality and popularity.

Yes, most high-quality mics are condenser. They're more-rugged than ribbon
mics, and have higher output. So what? That doesn't mean ribbon mics aren't
of good quality.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Arny, there's a huge distinction between quality and popularity.

Yes, most high-quality mics are condenser. They're more-rugged than ribbon
mics, and have higher output.

Condensors are also far easier to build with a variety of useful acoustic
characterstics. Yes, there have been ribbon mics with various directional
patterns, such as the once-popular RCA 77 unidirectional mic.

Ribbon mics are often very fragile in comparison to condenser and dynamic
mics. Often they have proven to be diasterously fragile.

Ribbon mics also tend to be soft at higher frequencies.

Check out the response curves at the AEA web site such as:

http://www.ribbonmics.com/aea/KU4.html

http://www.ribbonmics.com/pdf/R44-A4...al_Dec2009.pdf

http://www.ribbonmics.com/pdf/A840_T...nesheet_v2.pdf

I don't see anything there that couldn't sound good in the right situation.
But, in terms of range and smoothness, they are eclipsed by more modern
technology.

So what?

Perhaps you might speak differently if you worked with mics all the time,
particularly while recording in the field and also while doing live sound.

I let teenagers and untrained adults use condensor and dynamic mics quite
casually all of the time. Would anybody do that with ribbons?

Not to say they can't be used that way, just that using them that way would
involve some inconviences.

That doesn't mean ribbon mics aren't of good quality.

I never said that ribbon mics aren't of good quality in some sense. However,
they often have these fairly profound inherent practical limitations.

[Mike Clayton]

Nate Najar wrote:
man what great folks. I had been emailing back and forth with Wes about this and that over the last few months and he has always been very gracious and helpful. So I'm in LA for a few days doing some shows with a latin band I work in, and I called AEA about a shop visit. So after rehearsal today I made my way to Pasadena and had a fantastic time over there. I am so grateful for the hospitality they gave me.

The front of the shop is an incredible microphone museum. The old style shotgun mics are a trip to say the least. And they showed me where and how they manufacture and assemble the microphones, including the actual ribbons themselves. so cool. Physics are an amazing thing.

so I'm recording my new trio record in January at Nola in NYC and AEA is providing me some mics and pres for the date. I'm looking forward to hearing the new KU4 on my guitar.... well... Charlie's guitar. Yeah, I'm playing Charlie Byrd's Ramirez on my new record. I'm a lucky guy!

N

Nate, How would one get a copy of your recording?

I have an mono LP of the Charlie Byrd trio (Keter Betts, bass and a 21
year old Buddy Deppenschmidt, drums. It's an outstanding disc, both from
the artisitic side and from the production side. I'd love to hear your
efforts on that same guitar.

Mike

[hank alrich]

Mike Clayton wrote:

Nate Najar wrote:
man what great folks. I had been emailing back and forth with Wes about
this and that over the last few months and he has always been very
gracious and helpful. So I'm in LA for a few days doing some shows with
a latin band I work in, and I called AEA about a shop visit. So after
rehearsal today I made my way to Pasadena and had a fantastic time over
there. I am so grateful for the hospitality they gave me.

The front of the shop is an incredible microphone museum. The old style
shotgun mics are a trip to say the least. And they showed me where and
how they manufacture and assemble the microphones, including the actual
ribbons themselves. so cool. Physics are an amazing thing.

so I'm recording my new trio record in January at Nola in NYC and AEA is
providing me some mics and pres for the date. I'm looking forward to
hearing the new KU4 on my guitar.... well... Charlie's guitar. Yeah,
I'm playing Charlie Byrd's Ramirez on my new record. I'm a lucky guy!

N

Nate, How would one get a copy of your recording?

I have an mono LP of the Charlie Byrd trio (Keter Betts, bass and a 21
year old Buddy Deppenschmidt, drums. It's an outstanding disc, both from
the artisitic side and from the production side. I'd love to hear your
efforts on that same guitar.

Mike

Bet it'll turn up here when it's fully baked and wrapped:

http://natenajar.com/store/

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:32:44 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ) :

Ribbon mics are often very fragile in comparison to condenser and dynamic
mics. Often they have proven to be diasterously fragile.

Not any more.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Mike Clayton]

hank alrich wrote:

Bet it'll turn up here when it's fully baked and wrapped:

http://natenajar.com/store/


I bet your bet is right too Hank! Thanks a bunch and happy holidays to
you and yours. Hope the snow isn't too deep at your mountain hideaway.

Mike