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  #1   Report Post  
Chong Ong
 
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Default Beware EBay seller jeffluttrell from Boone, NC

This jeffluttrell ebay dude is bad bads - power ebay crook.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=2374502 440
Bad feedback given naturally. Had to do it this way.

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922
He never sent item. Refuse to send money back. No replies.
I claim from paypal and got only $150.00 back from paypal.
I won't get the balance back but at least this posting will let others
be aware of this power ebay crook.
I have evidence from paypal etc.
Told him I'd post negative etc and post on Newsgroup too and he ignores.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!

Chong Ong

  #2   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
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On 2/4/04 7:03, in article T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04, "Chong Ong"
wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=2374502 440
Bad feedback given naturally. Had to do it this way.

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922
He never sent item. Refuse to send money back. No replies.
I claim from paypal and got only $150.00 back from paypal.
I won't get the balance back but at least this posting will let others
be aware of this power ebay crook.
I have evidence from paypal etc.
Told him I'd post negative etc and post on Newsgroup too and he ignores.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!


Added to list of known SCAMMERS.



  #3   Report Post  
Brian Hill
 
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"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...
This jeffluttrell ebay dude is bad bads - power ebay crook.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=2374502 440
Bad feedback given naturally. Had to do it this way.

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.


The auction was only $150. What you mean you paid him $1K?

Brian


  #4   Report Post  
Steve Raasch
 
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What list is this?


OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION wrote:
On 2/4/04 7:03, in article T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04, "Chong Ong"
wrote:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=2374502 440
Bad feedback given naturally. Had to do it this way.

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922
He never sent item. Refuse to send money back. No replies.
I claim from paypal and got only $150.00 back from paypal.
I won't get the balance back but at least this posting will let others
be aware of this power ebay crook.
I have evidence from paypal etc.
Told him I'd post negative etc and post on Newsgroup too and he ignores.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!



Added to list of known SCAMMERS.




  #5   Report Post  
Jim Menning
 
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Default


"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!


My 2 cents worth:

It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that email sellers and buy outside of eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!

jim menning






  #6   Report Post  
Robert Morein
 
Posts: n/a
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"Steve Raasch" wrote in message
. ..

What list is this?

It's a list of honest people targeted by McCarty for harassment. McCarty
himself has never identified a real scammer.
On occasion, someone like Dave Palmer fingers a real scammer like Randy
Boggess. To my knowledge, Boggess the only scammer on the list.

The damage McCarty does to innocent individuals far outweighs the value of
his occasional publicization of the efforts of others like Dave Palmer or
Chong Ong. If you'd like to talk about McCarty, call me at (215) 646-4894.

I assume you've seen the material I put out about McCarty, but here it is
again. The supreme irony is that McCarty is himself a scammer. Perhaps he's
using some strange moral arithmetic such that if he manages to eliminate a
scammer, he's entitled to take his place. I really have no idea what powers
McCarty's insanity, except for the rumor that he left the U.S. to avoid
prosecution for a sex crime in Los Angeles County, California.

Brian L. McCarty is currently attempting investment fraud. McCarty is an
American citizen, living as an exile in Australia. Please read below for the
details. My personal opinion can be viewed at http://www.worldjazz.tv.

The website is remarkable in that it does not contain a single truthful
statement. It changes constantly. Always prominent are nonexistent people
as frontmen, and affiliation with nonexistent events. Previous versions have
also featured fictional alliances with large companies, and with nonexistent
companies. From time to time, McCarty also steals the names of actual people
to decorate his websites. For example, in the case of
http://www.coralseastudios.com, my name, Robert Morein, was once featured as
an "endorsement."

From the current version of the website:


WORLDJAZZ NEWS
IPO ALLOCATIONS NOW UNDERWAY
(for a fraudulent enterprise, consisting of fictitious people, while the
real "owner" remains hidden)
U.S. BASED BROKERS:
SEC FORM 6 - FAX TO: (270) 812-2208
(Like hell would they go for this scam)
INTERNATIONAL BROKER/DEALERS:
SEC FORM 6 (or equivalent) FAX: +852 3015-2696
(I don't think so)
SIGNED AND FAXED FORM 6'S MUST BE RECEIVED IN ORDER TO GUARANTEE ALLOCATION.
DON'T MISS OUT ON THIS EXCITING OPPORTUNITY!
(to keep Brian L. McCarty off the dole?)
MOSCOW CENTRAL TV: Jazz programming to be supplied by WorldJAZZ to Moscow
Central Television beginning 2004
(A complete lie. Moscow Central TV is informed about the scam.)

TOP FOUR U.S. CABLE TV COMPANIES: Negotiations for carriage rights
currently underway
(probably means Brian wrote them a letter in the name of one of his fake
frontmen)


EVENT SPONSORSHIP: WorldJAZZ has been named OFFICIAL CO-SPONSOR of the 2004
Jersey Jazz Bass Festival (second year running!)
(Nonexistent Event! Total Fabrication!)


Live broadcast planned September 22-25, 2004.
(of what, a blank screen?)


DR. KRISHNA MAHBREN Named as CEO of WorldJAZZ
(Dr. Krishna Mahbren is a nonexistent person)


JAZZ MUSIC LINKS COURTESY OF
(an irrelevant collection of links vastly inferior to what Google provides,
to give the impression Brian is actually providing a public service. NOT! )

The author of the above post under the name "OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK
VALUATION" is actually Brian L. McCarty, a notorious scammer, whose
current website, http://www.worldjazz.com, is a farrago of lies, fictitious
front people, and nonexistent associations. Speculation as to why McCarty
viciously attacks individuals who at the worst, might have slight
irregularities in business registrations, revolves around his suddenly
leaving the United States in the late 1990's. One rumor has it that McCarty
was about to be charged with a sex crime, and that he avoided prosecution by
leaving. It is possible McCarty paid off the victim's family.

Once in Australia, McCarty founded Coral Seas Studios, which quickly became
financially insolvent. Perhaps the major backer, ABN Amro, already detected
anomalies in McCarty's personality. Following that business failure, which
became a minor issue in the reelection of P.M. John Howard, McCarty
concentrated on funding a second initiative, "WorldJAZZ", a scheme for
Internet broadcasting. But with his reputation damaged and cut off from
legitmate business activity, McCarty's predatory tendency came more to the
fore. His website became ever more devious in an attempt to lure investors.

In 2003, notices appeared in several online publications that McCarty was
producing jazz broadcast material for Gene Parrish
(http://www.worldwidejazz.com ) Notices appeared in a publication of the
Embassy of France, and in one other publication. Mr. Parrish is a noted NPR
jazz broadcast host. When contacted, it was apparent that Parrish had never
heard of McCarty. While I cannot prove that McCarty posted these bogus
notices, he certainly had the motive to do so.

Following the exposure of the false producing notices, McCarty's name
completely vanished from the Internet. He resorted entirely to false
identities to create business partners who do not exist. As of 1/14/03, a
quick glance at http://www.worldjazz.com, discloses the following:

(Note: the following actually applies to the version of the website prior to
1/20/04, but it is relevant nevertheless:

1. Clicking on the banner "WorldJAZZ" produces an unresolved link to K1
Ventures, the largest venture capital company in Singapore. In discussion
with that company's secretary, she disavowed any connection between them and
McCarty, and was shocked at his implication that they were involved.

2. "Dr. Krishna Mahbren" is derived from a real person, Krishna Mahadoo,
V.P. of Beverly Hills Film Studios, a pink-sheet stock. McCarty cruises the
Internet for companies that don't answer the phone. McCarty made Mahadoo an
employee of that company's stock transfer agent, First American Stock
Transfer of Phoenix. When I pointed this out in a usenet post and notified
Mr. Mahdoo by mail, McCarty changed the company to "First American Stock of
Denver." Then he changed Mahadoo to Mahbren, and tacked on a "Dr." to the
phony name.

3. The claim that Moscow Central TV is to use material supplied by WorldJAZZ
is doubtful, as they were notified by mail. This claim has been made for the
better part of a year. When the date expires, McCarty simply creates a new
one.

4. "Event Sponsorship 2nd Year Running". This event does not exist. There is
no "Jersey Jazz Bass Festival." Previously, the website has exhibited a link
to the Island of Jersey in the English Channel. This locale has a surf
fishing festival, the Jersey Bass festival. There is no music festival. In
the past, association was advertised with "jazz musician" Peter Thliveros,
who is, in fact, a professional bass fisherman, not a musician.

5. The website is registered to "David Ellison", a fictitious person. In
the past, many different fictitious persons have been used, in conjunction
with yahoo mailboxes. Among McCarty's aliases, we have: Krishna Mahadoo,
Anthony Ramallo, David Ellison, David C.L. Feng, Ying Hong Huang, Lee
Hodges, Melinda Hsu, Melinda Shu, Robert Morein, Robert X Morein, Sylvan
Morein, Sylvan X Morein, et al.

6. The website morphs constantly. McCarty combs the Internet for identities
to steal. He chooses victims who do not represent themselves on the Web, and
are not easily reached by phone.

7. McCarty's other website, http://www.coralseastudios.com, has a similar
history. In the past, McCarty has actually used MY name as an endorsement,
apparently as a taunt, even though it makes extremely bad business sense.
Fortunately, Coral Seas went belly up, although the website lives on as a
zombie.

The obvious question is, if McCarty is so anxious to scam, why does he make
a constant racket under easily detectable fictitious names? It appears that
part of McCarty's mental illness is a distortion of reality. McCarty has an
obsession with the formal aspects of registering a business. To him, the "in
print" appearance is all that counts. It doesn't occur that people can
detect the reality that lies beyond. To McCarty fictitious names and posting
aliases are a real shield, just like a cat will crawl into a shopping bag to
hide.

McCarty had an early scheme for Internet radio. He claims to have sold
musical performance properties and/or a business plan to Black Entertainment
Television for $9.2M. Subsequently, he left Los Angeles. One unsubstantiated
rumor is that he left to avoid prosecution for a sex crime, presumably by
paying off the victim or family. Once in Australia, he made the acquaintance
of the brother of P.M. John Howard, who introduced him to contacts at ABN
Amro, an investment banking firm. They created a business plan for some kind
of a sound studio, still represented by the website
http://www.coralseastudios.com. After approximately a year, ABN withdrew
from partnership, but left the studio project still solvent. Some time
later, it went bankrupt or nearly so, owing $270,000 to it's employees. At
this point, Australia's entitlement law kicked in, paying the employees
monies owed them, with the exception of codirectors McCarty and Jeff Wexler.

It would appear that McCarty's enterprises failed because he has some kind
of mental imbalance, which exhibits signs of both schizophrenia and
obsessive-compulsive disorder. The impersonations which he makes of me are
a fraction of the numerous identities which he has used in the past, and
continues to use, on occasion, in the present. McCarty may actually believe
he is the person who he impersonates. Many of the identities are of
elaborate construction, taking some six months or more to take shape.
McCarty seems to have a magical belief that use of false identities provides
a shield.

In Australia, McCarty lived, and may continue to reside, in a condo at 65
Vasey Esplanade, Trinty Beach,
Cairns, Queensland, Australia. I periodically check to determine if he
relocates.

But why would McCarty want to escape his own identity so badly? Speculation
centers around the possibility that he did something not socially acceptable
in Los Angeles County in the late 90', possibly a sex crime.





  #7   Report Post  
KSM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have to agree with Jim on this one........buy through e-Bay and have some
protection, or suffer the consequences as Chong did.
"Jim Menning" wrote in message
...

"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!


My 2 cents worth:

It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that email sellers and buy outside of eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!

jim menning






  #8   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that e-mail sellers and buy outside eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.


Excuse me, but just who is at fault in such cases? It's not the buyer; he simply
made a request. Nor does the buyer being a "vulture" (which is highly debatable)
justify his being cheated.

Another point...

The eBay rules allow the seller to cancel the listing -- for any reason, for no
reason -- if he has received no bids. If a potential buyer offers more money
than the seller thinks he'll receive in an open auction, why shouldn't he cancel
the auction and sell to that buyer? Who, exactly -- other than eBay, who made
the rule in the first place -- is being cheated?

  #9   Report Post  
Brenda Ann
 
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"KSM" wrote in message
link.net...
I have to agree with Jim on this one........buy through e-Bay and have

some
protection, or suffer the consequences as Chong did.


What protection is that?

I bought a used laptop on 12/11/2003, and paid via PayPal.. the ultimate in
protection as far as an ebay purchase, right?

I paid for Priority mail shipping, the item should have been here in time
for Christmas. Along about 1/2 or 1/3, I sent the seller an e-mail and
asked how it had been shipped, and when. They told me it had been delayed
in shipping, and offered to refund me the extra that I paid for Priority
Mail shipping, which they did, about a week later.

I then e-mailed them to let them know that I had received the refund for
the extra postage, and they said that it would be shipped as soon as
possible. At this point, I informed them that if it had yet to be shipped,
that they should just refund my money for the entire sale, as it had been a
month since the end of the auction.

I got no response from them for a few days, so I went to leave negative
feedback. To my surprise, they were no longer a registered ebay seller. At
this point I sent another e-mail to them, and also a PayPal request for
funds to refund my purchase price. This they (apparently) did, a few days
later. They did this by PayPal e-check, which normally takes a few days to
clear. On the day it was to have cleared, I checked my PayPal account to
find that it had been instead cancelled. The sellers e-mail accounts have
all been closed, and the contact information is invalid (disconnected
telephone, etc.).

Now, this seller had good feedback, in the hundreds of positive feedbacks
(only about 4 out of over 600 were negative)..

Long story short, I am out my money, and out the item. I have absolutely no
recourse whatsoever, because both PayPal and ebay require you to file a
complaint/claim within 30 days. This does not even allow time for delayed
deliveries or shipping on the seller's behalf..

In other words, there IS no protection, other than Caveat Emptor, when
buying from ebay..



  #10   Report Post  
Steve O'Neill
 
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Hi:

Ironic that Chong finds himself in this situation. Wasn't too long ago that
the following statement (more or less) was in every one of HIS auction
descriptions "First rule: Please not email me to end auction early".

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

--
Steve


"Jim Menning" wrote in message
...

"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!


My 2 cents worth:

It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that email sellers and buy outside of eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!

jim menning








  #11   Report Post  
Jim Menning
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no

sympathy for
people that e-mail sellers and buy outside eBay. That's

not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of

times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the

auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I

am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such

occurrences.

Excuse me, but just who is at fault in such cases?


BOTH buyer and seller. But the seller doesn't pick a name
out of a hat and make a solicitation to do so. The act must
be initiated by the buyer. And Chong admits in his post
that he has done this before and sometimes gets "stung". I
have no sympathy for either buyer or seller when they get
burned in situations like this. As I said, there are rules
in eBay to make things fair for ALL buyers and sellers.
Those who consistently break the rules don't belong in the
game.

It's not the buyer; he simply
made a request.


Of course it's the buyer. Solicitations to buy off eBay are
specifically banned by eBay rules.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ebay-sale.html

Nor does the buyer being a "vulture" (which is highly

debatable)
justify his being cheated.


I never said they deserve to get ripped off. I said I have
no sympathy for them if they do. And the use of the term
"vulture" applies to anyone who engages in these
solicitations. They only make the offer to try to get the
item cheaper than they think it will go for legitimately.
And if they are correct about that, they are also cheating
the seller.


Another point...

The eBay rules allow the seller to cancel the listing --

for any reason, for no
reason -- if he has received no bids.


Obviously you don't know what you are talking about here.
There are only four reasons eBay allows you to end an
auction early. To sell an item off eBay certainly isn't one
of them. http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html
a.. The item is no longer available for sale.
b.. There was an error in the starting price or reserve
amount.
c.. There was an error in the listing.
d.. The item was lost or broken.

If a potential buyer offers more money
than the seller thinks he'll receive in an open auction,

why shouldn't he cancel
the auction and sell to that buyer?


Certainly not the case here, check the auction--it had a
Buy-It-Now price included.

Who, exactly -- other than eBay, who made
the rule in the first place -- is being cheated?


ALL other potential bidders are. They lose their fair
chance to add the item to their collections. If you would
have any reading comprehension, you would have seen that was
the point I made in my first post.

Obviously intellect and common sense are two entirely
different things. And it looks like you have a severe
ethics problem as well.

jim menning


  #12   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Long story short, I am out my money, and out the item. I have absolutely no
recourse whatsoever, because both PayPal and eBay require you to file a
complaint/claim within 30 days. This does not even allow time for delayed
deliveries or shipping on the seller's behalf..


That's the trick... Get the victim to hang on for 30 days, then they can't file
a claim.


In other words, there IS no protection, other than Caveat Emptor, when
buying from eBay.


I got some of my money back for a bad purchase from a Russian seller, using the
eBay fraud system. But I was still out over $100.

  #13   Report Post  
Mike Schultz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to where
the seller comments on one of them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3

--
Mike Schultz


"Jim Menning" wrote in message
...

"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!


My 2 cents worth:

It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that email sellers and buy outside of eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!

jim menning






  #14   Report Post  
Jim Menning
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Schultz" wrote in
message ...
Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and

scroll down to where
the seller comments on one of them:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3


Exactly, Mike. Thanks for pointing that auction out. This
behavior is inexcusable. If someone wants the item, they
will bid to win. Vultures hurt eBay, buyers, and sellers,
no matter what some others here seem to think. Reminds me
of a thread on ethics we had here some time back when buying
radios from people who have no idea what they are really
worth. Do you try to rip them off and ruin any reputation
you have? Or do you want to offer a fair amount, and have
word of mouth bring more deals your way? I believe that you
should always offer a fair amount, and you'll likely sleep
better at night. For those who choose to do otherwise, word
eventually gets around.

Me, I sleep great!

jim menning



  #15   Report Post  
- - Bill - -
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike Schultz wrote:
Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to where
the seller comments on one of them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3


Shouldn't this "FABA" be under one of the spelling threads?

-BM



  #16   Report Post  
Brenda Ann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"- - Bill - -" wrote in message
...
Mike Schultz wrote:
Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to

where
the seller comments on one of them:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3


Shouldn't this "FABA" be under one of the spelling threads?


And served with a nice chianti??



  #17   Report Post  
Joe Bento
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At the current bid, I don't think the seller needs to worry about his
spelling. :-)

Joe


- - Bill - - wrote:
Mike Schultz wrote:

Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to
where
the seller comments on one of them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3



Shouldn't this "FABA" be under one of the spelling threads?

-BM


  #18   Report Post  
Bob Weiss
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Joe Bento wrote:
At the current bid, I don't think the seller needs to worry about his
spelling. :-)

Joe


Wonder how much higher it might go if he were to put the search keyword
"catalin" in the title/description somewhere, though.

Bob Weiss N2IXK

  #19   Report Post  
allens
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...

Another point...

The eBay rules allow the seller to cancel the listing -- for any reason,

for no
reason -- if he has received no bids. If a potential buyer offers more

money
than the seller thinks he'll receive in an open auction, why shouldn't he

cancel
the auction and sell to that buyer? Who, exactly -- other than eBay, who

made
the rule in the first place -- is being cheated?


That's one of the ways to get free advertising via e-Bay.
Post an item with an opening bid or reserve price that is
so high that nobody (...but a true sucker) will touch it.
Then when the auction ends without a winning bidder
the sucker sends a private e-mail to the seller, offering
a price above the high bid, then counter with a slightly
higher offer, and complete the sale. Free advertising
(well, pay a listing fee) and make $$$ after the auction
ends.

  #20   Report Post  
JOE
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm still very confused - the item closed for $150 but you say
you sent him $1000? Now why would that be?? Why on earth
would you send this fellow almost ten times what you owed?
Maybe that's why he took off - he was LAUGHING!!!

Then you got a refund from Paypal for $150 - the price they
show as the closing price of the auction - sounds fair to me...
seems it's YOUR fault you paid ten times too much. Why blame
Paypal?

And you still hold the guy is a ripoff artist?

I contend that you are really really confused.

JOE




  #23   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The eBay rules allow the seller to cancel the listing -- for any reason,
for no reason -- if he has received no bids. If a potential buyer offers
more money than the seller thinks he'll receive in an open auction,
why shouldn't he cancel the auction and sell to that buyer? Who,
exactly -- other than eBay, who made the rule in the first place --
is being cheated?


Uh, if I place a bid on and item and I find it cheaper before the auction
is over, I am legally bound by my bid. In the same way, if the seller
puts it up for auction, he is obligated to sell the item to the high bidder
even if he gets a higher bid else where.


Please reread the second line above -- "if he has received no bids."
  #24   Report Post  
Kim Johan Andersson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex


The eBay fraud protection allows for 90 days before filing a complaint, which
have just been changed from 120 days.

Regards,
Kimjand


  #25   Report Post  
- - Bill - -
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kim Johan Andersson wrote:
Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex



The eBay fraud protection allows for 90 days before filing a complaint, which
have just been changed from 120 days.

Regards,
Kimjand



To boot, unless it has changed, you must wait 30 days before filing.
-BM



  #26   Report Post  
Brenda Ann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kim Johan Andersson" wrote in message
...
Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex



All you can get back from ebay is your final fees. PayPal gives you just 30
days to file for compensation.


  #27   Report Post  
- - Bill - -
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brenda Ann wrote:
"Kim Johan Andersson" wrote in message
...

Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex



All you can get back from ebay is your final fees. PayPal gives you just 30
days to file for compensation.


You might benefit by checking out eBay's Buyer Protection Claim program
if you paid via PayPal and/or credit card to get at least some of your
money back.

"eBay's standard purchase protection will reimburse buyers up to $200.00
(less $25.00 to cover processing costs) in cases of non-shipment or
significant misrepresentation of items purchased on eBay, provided the
buyer's claim meets our protection claim eligibility requirements.
The maximum reimbursement for any claim is $175."

-Bill M

  #28   Report Post  
Brenda Ann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"- - Bill - -" wrote in message
...
Brenda Ann wrote:
"Kim Johan Andersson" wrote in message
...

Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex


All you can get back from ebay is your final fees. PayPal gives you

just 30
days to file for compensation.


You might benefit by checking out eBay's Buyer Protection Claim program
if you paid via PayPal and/or credit card to get at least some of your
money back.

"eBay's standard purchase protection will reimburse buyers up to $200.00
(less $25.00 to cover processing costs) in cases of non-shipment or
significant misrepresentation of items purchased on eBay, provided the
buyer's claim meets our protection claim eligibility requirements.
The maximum reimbursement for any claim is $175."



Thanks Bill.. I did finally figure out how to do that.. ebay does NOT make
it simple to file complaints, and all but impossible to contact them
directly (yes, I know if you dig deeply enough, you can, but they should
have a more direct approach).

Take care, and stay well.


  #29   Report Post  
Jiri Placek
 
Posts: n/a
Default

- - Bill - - wrote in message ...
Brenda Ann wrote:
"Kim Johan Andersson" wrote in message
...

Alex Rodriguez wrote:


Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should raise a red
flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a real address and phone
number, just in case.
------------
Alex


All you can get back from ebay is your final fees. PayPal gives you just 30
days to file for compensation.


You might benefit by checking out eBay's Buyer Protection Claim program
if you paid via PayPal and/or credit card to get at least some of your
money back.

"eBay's standard purchase protection will reimburse buyers up to $200.00
(less $25.00 to cover processing costs) in cases of non-shipment or
significant misrepresentation of items purchased on eBay, provided the
buyer's claim meets our protection claim eligibility requirements.
The maximum reimbursement for any claim is $175."

-Bill M


Even better and free aternative is to pay using a premium credit card
(gold or platinum) with the protection policy. I have one from MBNA
and it worked with full refund except the postage.

Jiri Placek
Boyertown, PA
  #30   Report Post  
ddr
 
Posts: n/a
Default

those must be moon-dollars...



"Joe Bento" wrote in message
...
At the current bid, I don't think the seller needs to worry about his
spelling. :-)

Joe


- - Bill - - wrote:
Mike Schultz wrote:

Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to
where
the seller comments on one of them:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3



Shouldn't this "FABA" be under one of the spelling threads?

-BM






  #31   Report Post  
Mike Schultz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Moon dollars? Try Mars dollars. The auction's over and the big boys came
to play.

--
Mike Schultz


"ddr" wrote in message
...
those must be moon-dollars...



"Joe Bento" wrote in message
...
At the current bid, I don't think the seller needs to worry about his
spelling. :-)

Joe


- - Bill - - wrote:
Mike Schultz wrote:

Funny you should mention vultures. Check this one and scroll down to
where
the seller comments on one of them:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=93 3



Shouldn't this "FABA" be under one of the spelling threads?

-BM






  #32   Report Post  
Richard Freeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Schultz" wrote in message
...
Moon dollars? Try Mars dollars. The auction's over and the big boys came
to play.

--


I'm just having a bit of Trouble coming to terms with USD $12,664 for a
Radio Can anyone enlighten me as to what is so special about this one??

Regards
Richard Freeman


  #33   Report Post  
Chris F.
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jim Menning" wrote in message
...

"Chong Ong" wrote in message
news:T0UTb.18625$u_6.6716@lakeread04...

Paypal him $1K for this item out of ebay.
Occasionately the experience (me) gets stung
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3066633922

It gives a sigh of relief to air it out!
Thanks!


My 2 cents worth:

It's regrettable that you got burned, but I have no sympathy for
people that email sellers and buy outside of eBay. That's not
fair to those of us who play by the rules. Dozens of times I
have been bidding/watching rare items and see the auction ended
early by the seller who has sold to vultures like you. I am sure
I'm not the only one that has been upset by such occurrences.

You certainly aren't. It also may not be fair to the seller; often, the
"vulture" will make what seems like a great offer, but it's really less than
what he expects the auction to end for. Otherwise, he'd place a bid like
everyone else. Any competent/experienced seller should easily see that
he/she is probably being ripped off.
Too bad Ebay can't police such activities.....


  #34   Report Post  
Richard Steinfeld
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

|
| Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should
| raise a red flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a
| real address and phone number, just in case.
| ------------
| Alex

eBay only reveals the seller's contact information after you've
won the auction. At that point, you, the buyer, are committed to
completing the transaction.

I discovered that my seller had listed with a free webmail
address, a Mailboxes Etc. postal address, a non-existant business
name, and an unlisted phone. Upon my repeated requests for her
bona-fides, she refused to divulge them. I reneged on my purchase
after eBay took the attitude that I was out-of-compliance. As far
as they were concerned, they were satisfied because they had her
credit card number to satisfy *their* needs.

On another occasion, a seller who had lied about the condition of
his product cause me to file via "safe harbor." eBay kept
throwing obstacles in my path: new unpublished rules such as that
they would not accept electronic photographs and that they would
accept second party verification only upon printed letterhead. I
quit in disgust. It wasn't worth persuing. I'd wanted to receive
half my money back. Although William and a couple of other people
here have been successful in at least getting some sort of refund
from eBay, my experience has been that the deck is stacked
against the buyer and there's little chance of recourse.

eBay's public mouthpiece is a former public radio host turned a
government mouthpiece, and now eBay's. He claims, in innocence,
that there are thousands of successful transactions every day,
and why, eBay "is only a venue."

And, illusions to the contrary, images of safe harbors in the
sunrise, what you're buying for your money is a temporary venue.
With luck you'll get the merchandise that you paid for, in the
condition it was advertised. I said "luck."

Richard

  #35   Report Post  
norml
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Richard Steinfeld" wrotf:

eBay's public mouthpiece is a former public radio host turned a
government mouthpiece, and now eBay's. He claims, in innocence,
that there are thousands of successful transactions every day,
and why, eBay "is only a venue."


While not technically untrue, this is a mean-spirited description of the
man, whom I personally know to be of impeccable integrity.

And, FWIW, he left ebay last September. I know nothing of his successors.

Are you, BTW, contending that there are NOT "thousands of successful
transactions every day?" With one picayune exception, my ebay
disappointments have been caused only by clueless packers not unscrupulous
schemers.

I am a little sceptical of those here who claim loudly and often to have
been cheated.

Norm Lehfeldt


  #36   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am a little skeptical of those here who claim loudly and often
to have been cheated.


I've been cheated several times, most of which were intentional fraud. (I've
been cheated by people who didn't describe the item properly, but most of them
made good.) The total I lost, however, is a tiny percentage of the total I've
spent. I'm not complaining.

  #37   Report Post  
Philip Meech
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your credit card insurance is your best recourse.

Richard Steinfeld wrote:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

|
| Knowing you have only 30 days, anything past 2 weeks should
| raise a red flag. Also, even if you pay with paypal, get a
| real address and phone number, just in case.
| ------------
| Alex

eBay only reveals the seller's contact information after you've
won the auction. At that point, you, the buyer, are committed to
completing the transaction.

I discovered that my seller had listed with a free webmail
address, a Mailboxes Etc. postal address, a non-existant business
name, and an unlisted phone. Upon my repeated requests for her
bona-fides, she refused to divulge them. I reneged on my purchase
after eBay took the attitude that I was out-of-compliance. As far
as they were concerned, they were satisfied because they had her
credit card number to satisfy *their* needs.

On another occasion, a seller who had lied about the condition of
his product cause me to file via "safe harbor." eBay kept
throwing obstacles in my path: new unpublished rules such as that
they would not accept electronic photographs and that they would
accept second party verification only upon printed letterhead. I
quit in disgust. It wasn't worth persuing. I'd wanted to receive
half my money back. Although William and a couple of other people
here have been successful in at least getting some sort of refund
from eBay, my experience has been that the deck is stacked
against the buyer and there's little chance of recourse.

eBay's public mouthpiece is a former public radio host turned a
government mouthpiece, and now eBay's. He claims, in innocence,
that there are thousands of successful transactions every day,
and why, eBay "is only a venue."

And, illusions to the contrary, images of safe harbors in the
sunrise, what you're buying for your money is a temporary venue.
With luck you'll get the merchandise that you paid for, in the
condition it was advertised. I said "luck."

Richard


  #38   Report Post  
Richard Steinfeld
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"norml" wrote in message
...
| "Richard Steinfeld" wrotf:
|
| eBay's public mouthpiece is a former public radio host turned
a
| government mouthpiece, and now eBay's. He claims, in
innocence,
| that there are thousands of successful transactions every day,
| and why, eBay "is only a venue."
|
| While not technically untrue, this is a mean-spirited
description of the
| man, whom I personally know to be of impeccable integrity.
|
| And, FWIW, he left ebay last September. I know nothing of his
successors.
|

Norm, I know you used to work with him. I protected his identity
as I am still doing. And I used to respect him (I won't mention
names). I understand your kind feelings for him. In years past,
you both did a good program every day. With the replacement host,
it is sitll a really great radio program.

But I was distressed to hear how he responded to the complaints
that came in when he appeared in the eBay capacity on the radio.
The complaints are very legitimate. In fact, I wonder if you were
on the board that day, so you may recall it. I have read,
repeatedly, that the largest class of complaints to the FTC for
the last few years have been about being cheated in on-line
auction transactions. In other words, a really great number of
people have been ripped off via on-line auctions. That means
eBay. I maintain that internet auction seller ripoffs are a
plague. Your friend, as eBay had done before he'd gone to work
for them, presented the same response: things are just fine. They
aren't. I think that our man really wasn't as experienced as many
of the actual buyers and sellers.

Further, I am pleased that you wrote that he'd left. I submit
that he is too good for this company!

| Are you, BTW, contending that there are NOT "thousands of
successful
| transactions every day?" With one picayune exception, my ebay
| disappointments have been caused only by clueless packers not
unscrupulous
| schemers.

|
No. There are indeed thousands of successful eBay transactions
daily. There are many honest sellers.

| I am a little sceptical of those here who claim loudly and
often to have
| been cheated.

But, Norm, with all due respect for you, too, I want to point out
that the experiences that I had were as I stated. I found that
eBay threw obstacle after obstacle in my path, one self-help
hurdle after another, "help" sequences that after a number of
steps, returned the user right back to the beginning. They bloody
wear you out, Norm. You are given stage after stage of
generalized "advice" to use in the attempt to solve the problem
without ruffling their feathers. Have you actually been through
the sequence all the way through attempting to obtain an
"insurance" refund through eBay? Sometimes the path is
successful. Sometimes not. William made out OK, after the
deductable. I did not.

I have attempted to communicate with eBay many times. I have yet
to receive an answer that wasn't boilerplate, and rarely has one
of those boilerplate answers been squarely about what I wrote
about. Can you discuss anything on the phone with them? One's
fingers can get mighty tired. Remember, you can't post an actual
message to anyone until you have plowed through page after page
of autooated FAQs. You can't, for example, fire off an email to
an email address because you can only initiate an email via the
self-help slog. You've gotta play the game all the way through at
considerable cost of your own time (not theirs).

When I asked my witness to produce yet a third letter of
verification, he blew up in rage and refused. I'd already
submitted two letters he'd written to eBay; each time they
politely refused to accept it: they rejected his letter the first
time because it was on disk, not on paper; they rejected his
letter the second time because it was on paper, but not on
printed letterhead. Their requirements for accepting
documentation of fraud were not spelled out in advance; the
submissions were only rejected after I'd gone through each step
in turn. First, you and the seller have to go through a 30-day
purgatory. During this time, you and the seller yell at each
other. In my case, the seller had told me that I was a fool to
expect that "mint" meant anything other than "used." ("You have
bought a used CD player in mint condition. Everything sold on
eBay is used.") Then you submit the claim. And wait.

Let's run through the second part of this script in a bit more
detail this time. Let's say that you've asked your friend Harry
to sign a statement that he has seen that the CD player that was
advertised as "Mint" is, in fact, scratched, scuffed, and filthy,
that the loading door is mindlessly going in and out, that the
remote control is coated with a thick, wide blob of adhesive
glop. You send the letter on a disk, with photos you've
painstakenly taken, paper copies of the auction listing and all
correspondence to eBay in Salt Lake City. Your proof is a slam
dunk: the seller has lied. And they reject the whole thing
because they won't put a floppy disk into their computer. It is
the year 2003, and eBay, a superbly computerized operation, will
only accept paper photographs. I didn't make this up. My
experience with them was that when there's a problem, their
systems are user-hostile. Perhaps this has been improved since
then. I've already done approximately 50 transactions on eBay.
And, yes, most bad received merchandise has been due to bad
packing, as you said.

Unfortunately, I stand by everything that I wrote. The CD player
example I've been talking about is my own: the scuffed,
scratched, filthy "Mint" product with a loading door going in and
out nonstop. I do not think that this company is willing to give
adequate help to people who have been cheated in the system that
they've set up. They do a fine job protecting their own
interests, however, and buying up and crushing any competition.
Reminds me of Rockefeller and Microsoft. Sorry, Norm: that's what
I see and that's what I've experienced. Your friend did not help
dispell the illusion and experience of many people. Luckily, I
was able to clean the machine with a lot of work and alcohol. The
scratches and scuffs remain. I was able to clean and relubricate
the complicated loading door mechanism. The door, of course,
would still benefit from a "mint" belt like what I paid for. And
the machine sounds good. But the fact remains that I was cheated
and that eBay did a fine job of wearing out the buyer.

In the other case in my earlier post, the seller was hiding
behind totally bogus contact information. That's a clear eBay
address violation, right? Wrong: they accused me of wanting to
pull out after winning with a stern notice.

Regarding the issue of mispacking damage, here's what happened.
Between myself and a few other people I'd corresponded with, I
noted that I had either bought or knew about 18 turntables
purchased on eBay: every one of them damaged due to mispacking.
So I wrote to eBay about this epidemic of broken turntables. I
suggested that they send an automated email to all listers of
turntables with packing instructions. They have the technology to
do this; I also figured that they would care. You know what they
did: nothing, Norm. Didn't even have the courtesy to answer me.
Right into the trash. Hit the delete button.

Regarding business practices, I found and bought on a competing
auction site three times. I was happy to find an alternative. But
eBay sued them for name infringement, and sued them again after
they'd changed their name. That company is a ghost now. I used a
competing payment service. eBay bought up that service and
promptly shut it down. There comes a point at which the behavior
of the 900-pound gorilla becomes very clear.

As much as I respect you, I must disagree in this case. I know
what I've gone through and what I've witnessed. I cannot regard
this company as a good corporate citizen: there's a fig leaf of
responsibility, but that fig leaf is etched very clearly. Yet, it
has been useful. I am grateful to have been able to purchase
certain items that I never though I'd ever be able to find again
during my lifetime: wonderful historic audio treasures. I still
use the service from time to time, a lot less than earlier. Why?
Because it is the only game in town. You play that game or you
don't play at all. That's the way it is.

I hope that I have presented a more fleshed-out explanation this
time, Norm. In the beginning, I really had hope for this venue. I
wanted eBay to be a success; I wanted everyone to play by the
rules. I wanted eBay to police their "community" and keep things
fair. I wanted the company to behave in an enlightened manner, in
the spirit of what they'd created and in the spirit of the
message that they put out (Safe Harbor and all that). Now, sadly,
it's just, "Buyer beware."

Richard

  #39   Report Post  
Jon Yaeger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Richard,

You cite some very interesting and valid points.

Sometimes I try to put myself in eBay's shoes and think what it must be like
to try to discern truth from noise. It's probably not easy. However, IMHO,
they don't want to be an arbitrator and take a "wash our hands" approach to
most problems.

I've encountered real weakness among the 200 or so transactions that I've
made there. For example, eBay requires that you wait 30 days to file a
formal complaint, but PayPal won't give you a refund after 30 days! Nice
way to avoid giving refunds . . .

In another case, I paid for some stuff from a "Power User." They never
shipped the item and lied every time I contacted them. Of course I gave
them negative feedback, and they simply retaliated, ruining my perfect
score. As a buyer my only obligation is too pay, which I did within 24
hours. Like you, I became quite annoyed with the boilerplate responses and
the "we won't do anything" attitude.

A few years ago I was VP for a new software company. The management team
was unusually bright (myself excepted, perhaps). However, they wanted all
transactions to be internet based with no contact number for presales or
problem calls. I managed to convince them otherwise.

I'm afraid the trend now for companies is to distance themselves from the
customer, and eBay is a perfect example of this folly.

The very nature of the internet encourages this from a cost perspective.
The net levels the playing field to where the key consideration for most
people is price alone. If a business wants to compete, they usually can't
afford to have a great customer service staff. People want the lowest price
on anything including customer service and don't grasp that good service has
a real cost. This doesn't excuse eBay from their unfriendly policies but
unfortunately they aren't alone in this bad behavior.

Off of soapbox for the moment . . .


Jon

  #40   Report Post  
MR NO SPAM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...
Richard,

You cite some very interesting and valid points.

Sometimes I try to put myself in eBay's shoes and think what it must be

like
to try to discern truth from noise. It's probably not easy. However,

IMHO,
they don't want to be an arbitrator and take a "wash our hands" approach

to
most problems.

I've encountered real weakness among the 200 or so transactions that I've
made there. For example, eBay requires that you wait 30 days to file a
formal complaint, but PayPal won't give you a refund after 30 days! Nice
way to avoid giving refunds . . .

In another case, I paid for some stuff from a "Power User." They never
shipped the item and lied every time I contacted them. Of course I gave
them negative feedback, and they simply retaliated, ruining my perfect
score. As a buyer my only obligation is too pay, which I did within 24
hours. Like you, I became quite annoyed with the boilerplate responses

and
the "we won't do anything" attitude.

A few years ago I was VP for a new software company. The management team
was unusually bright (myself excepted, perhaps). However, they wanted all
transactions to be internet based with no contact number for presales or
problem calls. I managed to convince them otherwise.

I'm afraid the trend now for companies is to distance themselves from the
customer, and eBay is a perfect example of this folly.

The very nature of the internet encourages this from a cost perspective.
The net levels the playing field to where the key consideration for most
people is price alone. If a business wants to compete, they usually can't
afford to have a great customer service staff. People want the lowest

price
on anything including customer service and don't grasp that good service

has
a real cost. This doesn't excuse eBay from their unfriendly policies but
unfortunately they aren't alone in this bad behavior.

Off of soapbox for the moment . . .


Jon


I'm curious about one thing.... there can be some misunderstandings easily
answered or worked out between parties, so do you suppose E-Bay wants to
allow that to happen as a first line of action before they jump in? I've
never had a "real" problem dealing on E-Bay so I can't say you guys are
wrong. The only situation where I did contact them was when a buyer reneged
on a deal - so I thought. I had e-mailed him the total, boxed it up ready to
go out the door. No payment, no replies. I went through E-Bay. Still no
action from the buyer after they sent him and I the notice of his failure to
complete. Finally the guy wrote me out of the blue to tell me his computer
crashed and he was sorry. He still wanted the item if I had it. He overnight
mailed the payment at considerable expense to himself. I sent him the item
and still had time to go back and adjust the negative feedback. I believe he
had to reply to mine, then I had a last retort, which was favorable. Since
then, I've had other deals which didn't go sour with the seller, but the
shipping times came into play to make it "appear" the item wasn't shipped.
Taking considerably more time than normally expected. So.... my point is
"misunderstandings". Though I believe E-Bay SHOULD get involved to help out
however they can, they may have the wait and see approach at the onset for
just such reason as I stated. Otherwise, their reasoning could be the same
as for any other corporation. They protect the stock holders. They won't
risk chasing clients away to lose money... So who suffers? Other customers.
Seems to be the way of Corporate America anymore. Aside from all that, my
E-Bay experience has been pretty decent to date. I really can't complain.
One thing I do, is IF NEEDED - take a photo of the money order receipt being
sent to seller or of the shipping receipt if to a buyer and if any questions
arise, send them the photos. I also provide any tracking numbers. Maybe this
isn't a cure all for all woes of E-Bay sales, but it sure has worked for me.
MNS.


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