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jason jason is offline
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Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?

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On 10/07/2016 1:18 PM, Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


http://www.magix.com/us/
Magix has been responsible for a lot of cheap consumer photo, video and
audio software over the last 20 years, so that probably means the end
for Sound Forge and Vegas Professional development. :-(

Trevor.

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On 10/07/2016 7:48 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/07/2016 1:18 PM, Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


http://www.magix.com/us/
Magix has been responsible for a lot of cheap consumer photo, video and
audio software over the last 20 years, so that probably means the end
for Sound Forge and Vegas Professional development. :-(

Trevor.



Samplitude

geoff
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On 10/07/2016 6:59 PM, geoff wrote:
On 10/07/2016 7:48 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/07/2016 1:18 PM, Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


http://www.magix.com/us/
Magix has been responsible for a lot of cheap consumer photo, video and
audio software over the last 20 years, so that probably means the end
for Sound Forge and Vegas Professional development. :-(



Samplitude



Oops, forgot about Samplitude, (and Video pro X for that matter)
So I guess the question is will they compete, merge, or drop one line?
Time will tell I guess.

Trevor.


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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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On 7/10/2016 3:48 AM, Trevor wrote:

Magix has been responsible for a lot of cheap consumer photo, video and
audio software over the last 20 years, so that probably means the end
for Sound Forge and Vegas Professional development.



Magix distributes some inexpensive audio and video production software
as well as pro software like Samplitude and Sequoia. They're a good,
solid company. Vegas complements their existing line nicely, and the
Sound Forge line brings them some features that their other software
products don't have.

I think Acid has probably run its course since many other programs today
have its most popular features.




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On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:18:49 -0400 "Jason" wrote in
article

Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


I forgot the link to the announcement:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...sony-creative-
software-sell-products-to-magix
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Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
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Mike Rivers writes:

On 7/10/2016 3:48 AM, Trevor wrote:


Magix has been responsible for a lot of cheap consumer photo, video and
audio software over the last 20 years, so that probably means the end
for Sound Forge and Vegas Professional development.


Magix distributes some inexpensive audio and video production software
as well as pro software like Samplitude and Sequoia. They're a good,
solid company. Vegas complements their existing line nicely, and the
Sound Forge line brings them some features that their other software
products don't have.


I wonder what this acquisition will mean for SF.

At one time (10-12 years ago), SF was a fairly solid program, given the hardware of
the day.

Then Sony got their hands on it and in many ways things began to slip. (Best friend
of one of my clients used to work with the original development company, but
he and key people from the original team eventually left in disgust.)

It continued to slip, to the point where SF9 was a completely buggy joke, barely
able to stay running for more than a few minutes. Well, that's not completely true.
If you just loaded it and did nothing, it would not crash.

I gave up and left it behind, though I still use CD Architect. Was not even aware of
a "pro" (whatever that actually means) version until the Magix announcement.

Anyone use SF9 or later? Was there a point release that made the thing
stable?

Frank
Mobile Audio

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On 7/10/2016 11:25 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
I wonder what this acquisition will mean for SF.

At one time (10-12 years ago), SF was a fairly solid program, given the hardware of
the day.

Then Sony got their hands on it and in many ways things began to slip.


It continued to slip, to the point where SF9 was a completely buggy joke, barely
able to stay running for more than a few minutes. Well, that's not completely true.
If you just loaded it and did nothing, it would not crash.


I have SF 10 on most of my computers and it's fine. I had SF 9 for a
while and don't recall it being buggy, but then I don't do a lot with
it. It's my go-to program for 2-track recording that I don't do with a
hardware recorder, and my editing and (I hate to call it) mastering
program. I'm currently digitizing about a 200 reel archive and using a
computer with SF 8 that I never bothered to update to 10, and while it's
not buggy, it tends to skip on playback if I move the mouse. But then
it's running on a 15 year old Lenovo laptop with the a Pentium Mobile
CPU and 2 GB of RAM, running Windows XP.

I gave up and left it behind, though I still use CD Architect. Was not even aware of
a "pro" (whatever that actually means) version until the Magix announcement.


"Pro" bundles it with Spectral Layers. I have a copy of the first
version and never got the hang of relating what I see to what I hear.
Too bad, because it would be useful for de-crapping informal recordings
that people want to make records from, and Ozone won't give me a free
copy of their spectral editor program.

I have a feeling, based on absolutely no information, that Magix will
continue to support Sound Forge to the extent of maintaining
documentation and updates on line for the last version or two, but
probably won't make a new version if the the next version of Windows
doesn't run the last version of Sound Forge. They may even come up with
a deal to migrate to their 2-track "pro" editing program, whatever it's
called.




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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound
Forge Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to
MAGIX GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like
Audition better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


This has turned out to be a mixed blessing for me. Because of the Vegas
acquisition they have been selling Vegas Pro with DVD Architect for $199 (a
saving of over $400). I got it and have been playing with it last night. It
is a lot more clumsy than Adobe Premiere, but if I can just get the hang of
it maybe it will be a lot more functional than Premiere. Premiere dropped
their disc burning program, Encore, but Vegas has the DVD Architect and a
pro MP3 encoder and you can burn the disc right out of the timeline. Vegas
also has a wonderful plug-in feature that enables me to see the output of my
video editing on a large HDMI monitor as I edit.

Anyway, I am now competely video capable, 4k even, all the way to burning
the Blu-ray disc, and fully Dolby Digital surround sound capable, all the
way to burning the disc, and they are going to come out with a Vegas 14 Pro
in a couple of months and I will get it free with my purchase of 13.

Gary Eickmeier


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Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
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Mike Rivers writes:

So what are you using instead of Sound Forge? Have you gone completely
over to the dark side and do your stereo editing in Pro Tools? That's
always seemed too complicated to me.


Muhahahaha (evil laugh). Yes, indeed. The Dark Side.

But it depends on what you mean by "stereo editing". When I mix, all or nearly all
of the required editing is done on the multitracks such that what I print to stereo
already has all the edits I need.

Occasionally, I will pull something supplied from "the outside" into PT for editing
and sweetening. Not only is the editing faster (admittedly probably because I'm now
so familiar with it), but then I also have a large suite of tools to fix issues with
the source. And hands down the EQ and comp in PT10 or PT11 is easier to use and
sounds much better than what I remember doing with SF8.

The one thing SF has that PT does not is the real-time spectral analyzer. That can
be very handy at various times, so much so that I'll occasionally pull a track into
SF8 running on a XP emulator that lives on the Win7 DAW. (SF8 and Win7 do not get
along but SF8 in the emulator works fine. It's weird because CD Architect will run
directly in Win7, just so long as I run as admin. Otherwise, it won't see the CD
burner.)

Finally, if it's just a front or back trim of a stereo file, I'll do that
non-destructively from inside CD Architect.

Frank
Mobile Audio

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On 7/10/2016 3:20 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

But it depends on what you mean by "stereo editing". When I mix, all or nearly all
of the required editing is done on the multitracks such that what I print to stereo
already has all the edits I need.


These days, I don't do a lot of multitrack recording. I start with
stereo recordings, mostly live-in-the-studio or live shows, and I need
to get rid of all the garbage, maybe edit a couple of takes together,
and assemble a reasonable package. Sound Forge is great for that. I have
old copies of Wavelab and Sequoia that I can never remember how to use.
With Sound Forge, it's just highlight-and-delete, or grab-and-drag.

I find the integration (in SF 10) with CD Architect really convenient
when I need to give someone a CD. I can just mark the beginnings of
songs in Sound Forge, convert the markers to regions, then make CD
tracks from the regions, all from the Sound Forge menus.

Got another issue with that, but I'll start a new thread now that I'm
reminded.

The one thing SF has that PT does not is the real-time spectral analyzer.


I've never used it for anything other than to assess the amount of noise
that's hum, that might be worth trying to get rid of. I wish there was
a good de-hum plug-in. One of the things that Spectral Layers will do is
when you select a frequency range, it will select harmonics as well, so
you find the worst hum, usually at 60 or 120 Hz (US power), select it,
and tell it to do whatever you do with that to harmonics and
sub-harmonics (as far up and down as you want to go). Then you can
attenuate or, to be gross, delete all of those frequencies in one swell
foop.

I use a spectrum analyzer when testing/reviewing stuff to see what's
coming out that didn't go in. For that, I use the Voxengo SPAN plug-in,
which has a more "publishable" display than the analyzer built into
Sound Forge.



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Phil W Phil W is offline
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Mike Rivers:

So what are you using instead of Sound Forge? Have you gone completely
over to the dark side and do your stereo editing in Pro Tools? That's
always seemed too complicated to me.


Well, there´s still Wavelab by Steinberg - but it seems to me, that this is
considered even more evil than using anything else than PT (or maybe Reaper
for cheapsters) for multi-track.
Please correct me, if I´m wrong.

SoundForge never really convinced me over Wavelab, but that´s just me...


Phil

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On 11/07/2016 3:25 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:


It continued to slip, to the point where SF9 was a completely buggy joke, barely
able to stay running for more than a few minutes. Well, that's not completely true.
If you just loaded it and did nothing, it would not crash.



I gave up and left it behind, though I still use CD Architect. Was not even aware of
a "pro" (whatever that actually means) version until the Magix announcement.


There is no CD-A Pro. And yes, it seem seems to be the best tool for
the job (apart from the pain of needing to use a wrapper for VST)

Anyone use SF9 or later? Was there a point release that made the thing
stable?


Yeah, SF all the way through to current SF-Pro 11, with incremental
improvements and without any of the problems you mention.

geoff
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Phil W wrote:
Mike Rivers:

So what are you using instead of Sound Forge? Have you gone completely
over to the dark side and do your stereo editing in Pro Tools? That's
always seemed too complicated to me.


Well, there´s still Wavelab by Steinberg - but it seems to me, that this
is considered even more evil than using anything else than PT (or maybe
Reaper for cheapsters)


Cheap is only part of it. I can't get through a PT tutorial
video online without 'em inventing a small dictionary worth of
terminology, and I don't care about project-level interoperability.

The "small dictionary worth of terminology" also appears to be exposing
the internal state of the software, which is sort of nauseating.

REAPER is good enough to where I can use it for cue mix while I use an
old DAW - n-Track 3.0 - purely for tracking on the same machine at the
same time. I don't believe you can do that at all with PT.

Don't laugh too hard at n-Track 3.0 - I have an Acer Aspire One
net book and I can track live ( as in gigs ) with it up to 16 tracks.

for multi-track.
Please correct me, if I´m wrong.


I'd pick Sonar over PT for non-cheap but that's probably just me.

SoundForge never really convinced me over Wavelab, but that´s just me...


Phil


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On 11/07/2016 7:20 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:


Finally, if it's just a front or back trim of a stereo file, I'll do that
non-destructively from inside CD Architect.


For sure !

Lots of straightforward things like trimming, fading, cross-fading,
level envelopes, and even mastering(!) are just so easy in CD Architect.

And you have the whole album worth of tracks just sitting there on one
(or two if you want) timeline for easy visual comparison and hopping
around anywhere with a simple click for audio comparison.

geoff



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On 11/07/2016 4:12 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound
Forge Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to
MAGIX GmbH. I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like
Audition better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


This has turned out to be a mixed blessing for me. Because of the Vegas
acquisition they have been selling Vegas Pro with DVD Architect for $199 (a
saving of over $400). I got it and have been playing with it last night. It
is a lot more clumsy than Adobe Premiere, but if I can just get the hang of
it maybe it will be a lot more functional than Premiere.



Clumsy ?!!! You must be joking . The most straightforward and intuitive
workflow one could imagine. I guess unless already accustomed to
another particular app.

Premiere dropped
their disc burning program, Encore, but Vegas has the DVD Architect and a
pro MP3 encoder and you can burn the disc right out of the timeline. Vegas
also has a wonderful plug-in feature that enables me to see the output of my
video editing on a large HDMI monitor as I edit.

Anyway, I am now competely video capable, 4k even, all the way to burning
the Blu-ray disc, and fully Dolby Digital surround sound capable, all the
way to burning the disc, and they are going to come out with a Vegas 14 Pro
in a couple of months and I will get it free with my purchase of 13.


Just give it a bit more use and you'll soon wonder how other apps could
make things so difficult to do ;-)

geoff

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On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 11:18:55 PM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
Maybe it's old news, but new to me. Sony has unloaded their Sound Forge
Professional program (as well as most of its media software) to MAGIX
GmbH.


Might as well. The people who (re)master for Sony certainly don't know how to use it!

Jack

I was happy with SF for a number of years. Now I like Audition
better and wonder what'll become of SF. Who's MAGIX?


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
Magix distributes some inexpensive audio and video production software
as well as pro software like Samplitude and Sequoia. They're a good,
solid company. Vegas complements their existing line nicely, and the
Sound Forge line brings them some features that their other software
products don't have.


Agreed, and I think their ability to support the software properly is going
to be greater than Sony's. Of course, it's too late to do anything about the
feeping creaturism but that's how software goes.

I think Acid has probably run its course since many other programs today
have its most popular features.


It still has a very dedicated group of fans in the EDM crowd. Again, it is
easier to support a product like that in a smaller company. (Although one
can argue that Sony is actually a dozen or so smaller companies, often working
at odds with one another.)
--scott

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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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geoff wrote:

Clumsy ?!!! You must be joking . The most straightforward and
intuitive workflow one could imagine. I guess unless already
accustomed to another particular app.


Well - it's kind of like the '56 Chevy that had the gas filler hidden
beneath the left tail light. If you knew where it was, no problem. If you
were renting the damned thing, you started pulling out your hair at the
first gas stop.

It took me about 3 hours to figure out how to do a fade in. In Premiere,
there are tools for the most frequently used effects such as fades,
dissolves, and cuts. In Vegas, there is no tool for a fade-in or fade-out. I
kept reading and reading, searching (gave me everything but what I was
looking for), and finally in an obscure paragraph it mentioned that for a
fade in or out effect, you hover the cursor over the upper left corner of a
clip and a symbol will appear for a tool that lets you drag the corner over
for a fade-in. For a cut in Premiere, there is a little scissors tool. In
Vegas I learned a while back about the "S" key, but it took an equally long
search and happenstance to find that clue.

Title creation - holy goat**** Batman! Premiere has templates with a large
selection of type styles and easy movement among the other options to
manipulate the titles. With Vegas - at least so far - I have to manually
create each title. I will probably learn which plug-in is the easiest and
best and how to make my own templates, but this initial go was NOT easy. I
learned how to copy a title so that I could make another one with the same
attributes, but other than that there isn't a clue how to make multiple
titles of the same style. In Premiere there was a button called "make
another title with the same attributes."

Rendering my first project out to disc was equally disturbing. I tried (like
a fool) to just go "burn disc" after which you can specify what kind of disc
etc, but it just didn't work. Then I learned about pre-rendering, and that
would go a few minutes and then hang. So into the troubleshooting section
and I learned about turning the GPU acceleration OFF before rendering, and
that seemed to permit me to finally do what I wanted to do.

Like you say, it is a hard slog for the first couple of videos, but then it
gets smoother as you learn and customize the thing for your style.

Gary Eickmeier


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Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins. Many people decided Wavelab's counterintuitive interface is small
price to pay for a rack of real time processing and FX.

Vegas I'd always use for Video (as I used to), if I did it in any commercially
substantial quantities. However, for my personal use and to earn some odd $ from
YT, freebies (not freeware, comes preinstalled with HP Lap Tops) like Corel
VideoStudio Pro X3 and alike are more than enough.

For strictly audio multitrack I'd always stick to Cubase. I think they got the
UI just right. After all, these days when everything sounds the same anyway,
it's all about UI, isn't it?


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On 7/12/2016 10:56 AM, Luxey wrote:
Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins. Many people decided Wavelab's counterintuitive interface is small
price to pay for a rack of real time processing and FX.


And I felt exactly the opposite. I rarely use plug-ins, and never when
recording, so whatever they did with them, I guess I never noticed that
they were late to the party.

For strictly audio multitrack I'd always stick to Cubase. I think they got the
UI just right.


I played around with Nuendo when it was pretty much the same as Cubase
with more convenient routing for studio use - headphone mixes and such.
I couldn't get accustomed to the vocabulary. Since I use a console for
my mixing, I didn't really need all of those features. Reaper works just
fine for me when I'm tracking, and I only have Pro Tools for people who
insist, or so when I'm reviewing something and it's appropriate, I can
confidently say "it works with Pro Tools."

Understand that I'm not anti-ProTools, it's just that I don't need it
often enough to learn it so that I can be an effective user. And as a
very occasional user, I'm not enthusiastic about their subscription
policy. That's why unless I get a rich client (HA!!) I probably will
stick with PT 10 until it will no longer run on a computer that will no
longer run.




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On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 5:26:59 PM UTC+2, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/12/2016 10:56 AM, Luxey wrote:
Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins. Many people decided Wavelab's counterintuitive interface is small
price to pay for a rack of real time processing and FX.


And I felt exactly the opposite. I rarely use plug-ins, and never when
recording, so whatever they did with them, I guess I never noticed that
they were late to the party.


What did you use SF and WL for? BTW Wavelab's "Montage" module was soooo much
better than SF's detached and lame, heavy, prone to crashes "Architect" effort.

Back to real time processing ...
For me, having to render file only to hear if the EQ applied was right,
then undo, try again ... was not exactly ideal situation. I mean, there was a
short preview, which was OK while it was all you could find around, but once
you could do it in real time, over the course of the whole song, or other "program material" there was no going back to "preview - render - check - (try
again)" scheme.

Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time, but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...

So, if home made CD mastering was the deal ...

For strictly audio multitrack I'd always stick to Cubase. I think they got the
UI just right.


I played around with Nuendo when it was pretty much the same as Cubase
with more convenient routing for studio use - headphone mixes and such.
I couldn't get accustomed to the vocabulary. Since I use a console for
my mixing, I didn't really need all of those features. Reaper works just
fine for me when I'm tracking, and I only have Pro Tools for people who
insist, or so when I'm reviewing something and it's appropriate, I can
confidently say "it works with Pro Tools."


Since I use mixer, too, I also do not need all those features. Reaper
is fine and cheap, works well ...., but it looks too much like a PC to me. I
have to look and search for things too much. Maybe after a period of adapting
it'd all come in place, but I don't have the patience to go through learning
process.
With Cubase graphics I could instantly recognize studio stuff as I knew it in
hardware and most of the time I correctly guess which way to reach for
whatever.
Also, I never used too much of advanced functions, like audio quantizing and
all that. I'd rather manually cut, crossfade ...
I did use their built in version of "Melodyne", though. There I could move,
stretch and tune for all the money.
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Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time, but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...


To clarify, Cubase is quite OK to cut, paste and crossfade chunks of audio,
but it's pretty awful if you're to edit them, more so as you magnify down towards
sample level.
IMO & IME!!!
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On 7/12/2016 2:16 PM, Luxey wrote:

What did you use SF and WL for?


Editing stereo recordings, splicing pieces of alternate takes together,
putting songs in order, occasionally adjusting levels. I don't do
"mastering" - it bores me. I let someone else do it. They get paid more
than I do.

BTW Wavelab's "Montage" module was soooo much
better than SF's detached and lame, heavy, prone to crashes "Architect" effort.


I never understood Montage. I fumbled my way through it a time or two,
but I found it so much easier to do with Sound Forge. Actually, my
favorite stereo editor at the time was Fast Edit, but they stopped
supporting it years ago.

I never had a problem with CD Architect crashing, at least I don't
remember any issues. Now that it's integrated with the editor, once I
get a file of pieces stuck together the way I want them, creating an
audio CD from that is really simple, and I understand all the steps and
the vocabulary.

Back to real time processing ...
For me, having to render file only to hear if the EQ applied was right,
then undo, try again ... was not exactly ideal situation.


Sound Forge, at least for its own processes, has a "Preview" button so
you can play as much or as little of the file through it as you want,
and listen as you're making adjustments. You can bypass the process in
the preview mode so you can make sure you're really making things
better. I'm sure there are good reasons for liking whatever it is that
you like better, but I don't need to learn any more than I know now for
what work I do.

Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time, but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...


That's what I like about Sound Forge, and I agree with you that DAWs
weren't very good as editors. In fact, something I use now and then,
maybe it's Reaper, lets you send edits off to your favorite editing
program rather than using the built-in one. Actually, the best thing
I've ever used for editing within the multitrack environment is my
Mackie HDR24/96 recorder. When I tell people how easy it is to put
something right where I think it should go, then adjust it, and drag the
edges at the crossfade to make it work, they tell me "Pro Tools does
that." But Pro Tools didn't do it in 1999 when the HDR was designed.

Since I use mixer, too, I also do not need all those features. Reaper
is fine and cheap, works well ...., but it looks too much like a PC to me.


There are a whole bunch of "skins" to change the appearance. To me it
makes good sense - you have a recorder and you have a mixer. That looks
like a control room to me. Except that the mixer doesn't have enough knobs.

I've played around with Harrison MixBus and there are some things that I
like about it. One is that the mixer _does_ have enough knobs most of
the time - perfectly useful EQ and compressor. If I had a 50 inch
monitor I'd probably be reasonably happy with it. I never studied
editing with it though. It looks kind of like what a Linux programmer
who never edited audio would come up with, but then, that's its genesis.
It's built around Ardour. Harrison has done a lot to make it more like a
studio tool, and for the $20 I paid for it (I think it's back to $80 and
they haven't had a special for a while) it's a great deal. But I've been
dragging my feet to spend $40 for the update to the version I have
(since I don't use it enough to justify putting any more $$ into it),
and they have a new version that emulates the Harrison Series 32
console, that they want $150 for. I'm sure it's well worth it for those
committed to that path.

Also, I never used too much of advanced functions, like audio quantizing and
all that. I'd rather manually cut, crossfade ...
I did use their built in version of "Melodyne", though. There I could move,
stretch and tune for all the money.


I don't have the patience to do that. If somebody sings out of tune,
I'll have them do another take or two or do a punch-in. My time is worth
more to me than what I can justify charging, and I don't make any music
myself that I'd want to record.




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On 13/07/2016 2:56 AM, Luxey wrote:
Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins.


So its been pretty good for well over a decade then ?

geoff



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On 13/07/2016 6:16 AM, Luxey wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 5:26:59 PM UTC+2, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/12/2016 10:56 AM, Luxey wrote:
Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins. Many people decided Wavelab's counterintuitive interface is small
price to pay for a rack of real time processing and FX.


And I felt exactly the opposite. I rarely use plug-ins, and never when
recording, so whatever they did with them, I guess I never noticed that
they were late to the party.


What did you use SF and WL for? BTW Wavelab's "Montage" module was soooo much
better than SF's detached and lame, heavy, prone to crashes "Architect" effort.


I don't think CD Architect has EVER crashed on me, and doesn't appear to
be a common problem in their forum.

Lame ? Concise and intuitive more like it ! Wavelab was pretty good
too, if you could get your head around the teutonic workflow and
terminology.


Back to real time processing ...
For me, having to render file only to hear if the EQ applied was right,
then undo, try again ... was not exactly ideal situation.


Um, which millenium was that ?


geoff
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On 13/07/2016 6:23 AM, Luxey wrote:

Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time, but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...


To clarify, Cubase is quite OK to cut, paste and crossfade chunks of audio,
but it's pretty awful if you're to edit them, more so as you magnify down towards
sample level.
IMO & IME!!!



I got turned of Cubase in the early day when I found you couldn't just
arm on a track header then hit 'Record'. Turned out you had to draw an
empty space that you have to record into.

Maybe they sorted that counter-intuitive feature eventually, but I had
already gone.

geoff
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On 13/07/2016 7:30 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

I never had a problem with CD Architect crashing, at least I don't
remember any issues. Now that it's integrated with the editor, once I
get a file of pieces stuck together the way I want them, creating an
audio CD from that is really simple, and I understand all the steps and
the vocabulary.


I tend to use it more as stand-alone.


Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time,
but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...


That's what I like about Sound Forge, and I agree with you that DAWs
weren't very good as editors. In fact, something I use now and then,
maybe it's Reaper, lets you send edits off to your favorite editing
program



One of the features inspired by Vegas.

geoff

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On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/12/2016 10:56 AM, Luxey wrote:
Sound Forge lost it many years ago when it arrived too late to implement real
time plug ins. Many people decided Wavelab's counterintuitive interface is small
price to pay for a rack of real time processing and FX.


And I felt exactly the opposite. I rarely use plug-ins, and never when
recording, so whatever they did with them, I guess I never noticed that
they were late to the party.

For strictly audio multitrack I'd always stick to Cubase. I think they got the
UI just right.


I played around with Nuendo when it was pretty much the same as Cubase
with more convenient routing for studio use - headphone mixes and such.
I couldn't get accustomed to the vocabulary. Since I use a console for
my mixing, I didn't really need all of those features. Reaper works just
fine for me when I'm tracking, and I only have Pro Tools for people who
insist, or so when I'm reviewing something and it's appropriate, I can
confidently say "it works with Pro Tools."

Understand that I'm not anti-ProTools, it's just that I don't need it
often enough to learn it so that I can be an effective user. And as a
very occasional user, I'm not enthusiastic about their subscription
policy. That's why unless I get a rich client (HA!!) I probably will
stick with PT 10 until it will no longer run on a computer that will no
longer run.




--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


Rich client? I'd do the work for FREE, just so I can personally hear how fine it could be!! I mean, past music that I like I'd want free copies of the CD or whatever, to be sent to the critics of my work, that's all.

And, may I interject about "Remastering". I liked Van Morrison, don't believe he was all instrumental in his popularity. Lots of stuff was decided for him.
His "demos" sounded pathetically boring.

Since his Moondance remastered album sounded good, I thought I'd give another 2015 Remaster album a try. You'd find KMA applauding the sound (smile), while I'm demanding my money back!! Garbage, muddy audio. I'm seeing if my friend has the actual CD, as I feel there's an error in downloads!!

DAW's? So many, even "free", they'll end up as a prize in Cracker Jacks boxes!!

Jack
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On 13/07/2016 7:30 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:


That's what I like about Sound Forge, and I agree with you that DAWs
weren't very good as editors. In fact, something I use now and then,
maybe it's Reaper, lets you send edits off to your favorite editing
program



On 7/12/2016 4:12 PM, geoff wrote:
One of the features inspired by Vegas.


Hmmmm . . . I never used Vegas, but I tried to review Acid and couldn't
find enough that I could relate to. Maybe it was Acid that let you use
an external editor program. That would make some sense as (at least at
the time) Acid was mainly about fitting found sounds into the Acid
format so they could be manipulated. So you might have to do
considerable editing in the conventional sense before you had what you
wanted to "Acidize."



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Will not quote everyone ...

1. I surely do not remember preview being for whole file. I remember it as
being couple of seconds long. Could be it was RAM dependent and my machines
always were on the bottom side of computing power and capacity spectrum ...

2. ... which could be why I remember CD architect as heavy and clumsy. OK,
maybe it did not crash, I could be wrong. Maybe I even have it confused with
DVD Arch?! I remember those things rendering for ages something I expected
to be done in minutes (which some other apps, in following years, exactly did
as expected).
I think I speak about version 1.0, if there ever was another version.

3. Sound Forge versions I speak about are maybe up to version 4, I think.
Wave lab I also speak about versions up to 3, maybe 4, ... I've lost interest
in following it when it became clear there will never again be any real money
in demo studios world. I used version 6 quite a lot recently.

4. Cubase I mostly used in VST32 days (not counting ATARI ST), also people I
worked with had version 3, some have version 5. I know some who told me they
have version 6 but I've never touched that one. Quite recently I was shocked to
find out there is version 8 already. Maybe they went even further in the
meantime.

5. Dealing with user interface skins (as in Reaper) is the last thing I'd to
do.
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On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 12:33:48 AM UTC+2, Luxey wrote:
Will not quote everyone ...

1. I surely do not remember preview being for whole file. I remember it as
being couple of seconds long. Could be it was RAM dependent and my machines
always were on the bottom side of computing power and capacity spectrum ...


Something lit up in my head, could be at one point it was possible to listen all
the way, but you could do only one FX at time, render after each one? There was
no way to apply couple FX/ processors at once.
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On 7/12/2016 6:51 PM, Luxey wrote:

Something lit up in my head, could be at one point it was possible to listen all
the way, but you could do only one FX at time, render after each one? There was
no way to apply couple FX/ processors at once.


I had Sound Forge Version 2, that came along with a production music
library that I had. It was the first editor that I had, though I had
looked at one from Turtle Beach that was really popular at the time. The
next version I had was 8, and I have 9 and 10 now. I never got past 10.

They have what they call the "Plug-in Chainer" which lets you put
plug-ins in series. The only time I used it was when I wanted to plot
some equalizer frequency response curves for an article. I had a file of
pink noise that I put an EQ on, and then "chained" SPAN (a spectrum
analyzer) after it. I dreamed of watching the spectrum change as I
adjusted the EQ in the Preview mode, but SPAN takes up the whole screen
so I couldn't adjust the EQ with SPAN engaged. I ended up using Room EQ
Wizard to plot the EQ curve using a sine sweep, but that has nothing to
do with what most people use plug-ins for.




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On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 1:13:20 AM UTC+2, Mike Rivers wrote:

I had Sound Forge Version 2, that came along ... The
next version I had was 8, and I have 9 and 10 now.

They have what they call the "Plug-in Chainer" ...


I'm pretty sure they've got "Chainer" only after version 3, likely at version 4,
but will not insist on it. Also for quite a while SF could not accept VST, only
some proprietary format and Direct X.
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On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 4:13:16 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 13/07/2016 7:30 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

I never had a problem with CD Architect crashing, at least I don't
remember any issues. Now that it's integrated with the editor, once I
get a file of pieces stuck together the way I want them, creating an
audio CD from that is really simple, and I understand all the steps and
the vocabulary.


I tend to use it more as stand-alone.


Real time processing was available in popular multitracks at the time,
but they
were rather clumsy in basic editing, cut, insert fade ...


That's what I like about Sound Forge, and I agree with you that DAWs
weren't very good as editors. In fact, something I use now and then,
maybe it's Reaper, lets you send edits off to your favorite editing
program



One of the features inspired by Vegas.

geoff


ONE of the days I'll hear what you pros can do with audio!! Talk is cheap

Jack


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On 13/07/2016 11:49 a.m., Luxey wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 1:13:20 AM UTC+2, Mike Rivers wrote:

I had Sound Forge Version 2, that came along ... The
next version I had was 8, and I have 9 and 10 now.

They have what they call the "Plug-in Chainer" ...

I'm pretty sure they've got "Chainer" only after version 3, likely at version 4,
but will not insist on it. Also for quite a while SF could not accept VST, only
some proprietary format and Direct X.


SF3 was superseded last millennium. Sound Forge V4.5 was released at the
turn of the millennium, and SF6 in 2003.

Version 11 and over a decade later now. Not really helpful or fair to
equate that in any way to anything anybody would be likely to be using now.

geoff
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On 13/07/2016 12:10 p.m., JackA wrote:
ONE of the days I'll hear what you pros can do with audio!! Talk is cheap

Jack


Given that you have clearly demonstrated an inability to hear properly
(not clear if it is your equipment, ears, or brain that is flawed), what
would be the point.


geoff
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geoff:

I got turned of Cubase in the early day when I found you couldn't just arm
on a track header then hit 'Record'. Turned out you had to draw an empty
space that you have to record into.

Maybe they sorted that counter-intuitive feature eventually, but I had
already gone.


That has been sorted out long time ago already. When I started playing
around with DAWs, about 15 years ago, Cubase already worked the way:
hit "arm" on a track and start recording - it even works, while already
running and the recording for this track starts immediately.

Of course, you should still make sure, the desired input is selected, before
you hit "Record". ;-)
Just like in most/many other DAWs.


Phil

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On 13/07/2016 2:47 p.m., Phil W wrote:
geoff:

I got turned of Cubase in the early day when I found you couldn't
just arm on a track header then hit 'Record'. Turned out you had to
draw an empty space that you have to record into.

Maybe they sorted that counter-intuitive feature eventually, but I
had already gone.


That has been sorted out long time ago already. When I started playing
around with DAWs, about 15 years ago, Cubase already worked the way:
hit "arm" on a track and start recording - it even works, while
already running and the recording for this track starts immediately.


Doesn't seem that long ago - but as they say - time flies when you're
having fun !


Of course, you should still make sure, the desired input is selected,
before you hit "Record". ;-)
Just like in most/many other DAWs.


I'm sure :-)

In Vegas and Acid if you omit to arm a track (and select an input) , it
automatically creates and records a new track with the default input(s),
which may or may not save an embarrassing situation.

geoff
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Has anybody used N Track Studio?

I like the real time draw your own EQ overlayed on the spectrum analyzer feature.

How does it compare to these others?

Mark
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