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#1
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the
audio compressed to the max,,, even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now now EVERYTHING is squashed. At least before I could mute the commercials, now I have to mute everything and read the closed captions... :-) or just turn it off... Is this an example of unintended consequences with the new govt' regs? Mark |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Mark wrote:
I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the audio compressed to the max,,, even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now now EVERYTHING is squashed. How are you watching it? Because.... the studio compresses the signal... then the network compresses the signal... then the local affiliate compresses the signal... then the local cable system compresses the signal. Video people use AGC so they don't actually have to set and ride gains. It's a small step from that to using faster compression. At least before I could mute the commercials, now I have to mute everything and read the closed captions... :-) or just turn it off... Is this an example of unintended consequences with the new govt' regs? No, it's been this awful since I was a kid at least. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
On Feb 20, 12:12*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Mark wrote: I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the audio compressed to the max,,, * even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now *now EVERYTHING is squashed. How are you watching it? Because.... the studio compresses the signal... then the network compresses the signal... then the local affiliate compresses the signal... then the local cable system compresses the signal. Video people use AGC so they don't actually have to set and ride gains. It's a small step from that to using faster compression. At least before I could mute the commercials, *now I have to mute everything and read the closed captions... :-) *or just turn it off... Is this an example of unintended consequences with the new govt' regs? No, it's been this awful since I was a kid at least. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." __________________ This discussion should include decision makers at your local affiliates, cable providers, or if you live near one, the nearest major network anchor. Once consumers complain and threaten to cut off their subscriptions to pay TV - they'll listen. Certainly, a channel-to-channel standard should be established so you don't get blasted going from one to another, but 1,000Googol:1 ratio compression is not the answer! This brings to light an experiment I conducted. I played a high- bitrate mp3 of "No Reply at All" by Genesis ripped from their album on repeat for an hour at avg. 85dB, and felt the top of my stereo amp. It was warm. The next day(allowing time for the amp to cool off) - I played a severely compressed high-bitrate mp3 I created of that same song, in Audacity, for an hour, at the same volume level, and the top of my amp nearly burned my f#*king HAND! 'nuff said... -CC -CC |
#4
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Feb 20, 12:12 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: Mark wrote: I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the audio compressed to the max,,, even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now now EVERYTHING is squashed. How are you watching it? Because.... the studio compresses the signal... then the network compresses the signal... then the local affiliate compresses the signal... then the local cable system compresses the signal. Video people use AGC so they don't actually have to set and ride gains. It's a small step from that to using faster compression. At least before I could mute the commercials, now I have to mute everything and read the closed captions... :-) or just turn it off... Is this an example of unintended consequences with the new govt' regs? No, it's been this awful since I was a kid at least. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." __________________ This discussion should include decision makers at your local affiliates, cable providers, or if you live near one, the nearest major network anchor. Once consumers complain and threaten to cut off their subscriptions to pay TV - they'll listen. Certainly, a channel-to-channel standard should be established so you don't get blasted going from one to another, but 1,000Googol:1 ratio compression is not the answer! Isn't that what these "audio exciters" do....Rexpand compressed signals? |
#5
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Bill Graham wrote:
Isn't that what these "audio exciters" do....Rexpand compressed signals? No. Remember your freshman information theory class? Once information is lost, it cannot be regenerated. When you compress a signal you are losing information about the original level, because a compressor is not a 1:1 system. (Okay, there is a special case of a compressor designed for noise reduction that is actually a 1:1 system but normal compressors are not 1:1). So you cannot undo compression. The exciters just add high order even harmonics to make things sound brighter, so after you have ruined your high end with a compressor set too fast, you can make it shrieky. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
On Feb 20, 12:12*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Mark wrote: I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the audio compressed to the max,,, * even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now *now EVERYTHING is squashed. How are you watching it? via Comcast Cable/via the local NBC station... but the audio is ok on most of the other NBC programs I watch via the same chain, the Chris Mathews show was squashed to the point that it gave me a headache, (yeah the content was too) a lot of it had to be in the orignal production of the show.. Mark |
#7
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
When you compress a signal you are losing information
about the original level, because a compressor is not a 1:1 system. I think Messrs Dolby and Blackmer would disagree. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
On Feb 20, 12:12*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Mark wrote: I'm watching the morning political talk shows on NBC and they have the audio compressed to the max,,, * even my wife noticed it.. Ok, so the commercials are no louder, but now *now EVERYTHING is squashed. How are you watching it? Because.... the studio compresses the signal... then the network compresses the signal... then the local affiliate compresses the signal... then the local cable system compresses the signal. Video people use AGC so they don't actually have to set and ride gains. It's a small step from that to using faster compression. At least before I could mute the commercials, *now I have to mute everything and read the closed captions... :-) *or just turn it off... Is this an example of unintended consequences with the new govt' regs? No, it's been this awful since I was a kid at least. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Last year tried to contact people from Fox, local hockey broadcast. I don't know for sure if its just the cable or Fox. Every time the puck was hit, the broadcasters voices would drop way down. It was and is very annoying. Not a problem on other channels. greg |
#9
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
William Sommerwerck wrote:
When you compress a signal you are losing information about the original level, because a compressor is not a 1:1 system. I think Messrs Dolby and Blackmer would disagree. You clipped out the next sentence in which I specifically mentioned that as being an unusual special case of the compressor. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: Isn't that what these "audio exciters" do....Rexpand compressed signals? No. Remember your freshman information theory class? Once information is lost, it cannot be regenerated. When you compress a signal you are losing information about the original level, because a compressor is not a 1:1 system. (Okay, there is a special case of a compressor designed for noise reduction that is actually a 1:1 system but normal compressors are not 1:1). So you cannot undo compression. The exciters just add high order even harmonics to make things sound brighter, so after you have ruined your high end with a compressor set too fast, you can make it shrieky. --scott Thanks.... I have often wondered what those things do. You can read the catalogs until the cows come home, but they won't tell you anything outside of their advertising hype..... |
#11
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Bill Graham wrote:
Thanks.... I have often wondered what those things do. You can read the catalogs until the cows come home, but they won't tell you anything outside of their advertising hype..... I would consider a good introduction to audio technology like "Technique Of The Sound Studio" by Nisbett. His book on microphones is good too. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: Thanks.... I have often wondered what those things do. You can read the catalogs until the cows come home, but they won't tell you anything outside of their advertising hype..... I would consider a good introduction to audio technology like "Technique Of The Sound Studio" by Nisbett. His book on microphones is good too. --scott Trouble is, he would have to come out with a new edition every year in order to keep up with the boys in Madison Avenue who are pushing all that junk to the buying public. Every time I get a new catalog I find some new chassis that purports to make my sounds better without actually telling me just what it does...:^) |
#13
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TV audio -- entering the loudness wars
Bill Graham wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: Thanks.... I have often wondered what those things do. You can read the catalogs until the cows come home, but they won't tell you anything outside of their advertising hype..... I would consider a good introduction to audio technology like "Technique Of The Sound Studio" by Nisbett. His book on microphones is good too. --scott Trouble is, he would have to come out with a new edition every year in order to keep up with the boys in Madison Avenue who are pushing all that junk to the buying public. Every time I get a new catalog I find some new chassis that purports to make my sounds better without actually telling me just what it does...:^) It's all the same junk that folks were selling thirty years ago, just with different marketing attached. The marketing changes much faster than the technology. You need to stop reading marketing trash and actually read about audio, though. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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