Les, do you know of a good online source for those Behringer pieces - one
that supports the warranty. I think I'll also need the RS-485 cable to
connect the two together. I'll be hooking it up to RS-232 on the computer.

Also, any recommendations on a power inverter for these?

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Les, do you know of a good online source for those Behringer pieces - one
that supports the warranty. I think I'll also need the RS-485 cable to
connect the two together. I'll be hooking it up to RS-232 on the
computer.

Also, any recommendations on a power inverter for these?


Either www.Partsexpress.com or www.musiciansfriend.com will have them for
$250. MF has free shipping right now on all orders over $200. But if you
needed other parts then PE may be the way to go. The warranty will be
honored at either place, Behringer offers excellent warranty service. Good
luck with it, take some pictures and let me know how is works out.

Les

Cool, I'll order it this weekend.

One more question: do you know how to "convert" an optical digital output
to the AES/EBU input which connects to the XLR on this unit? And apparently
I need a "splitter" (ie. distribution box) to provide input for both units.
Any ideas on a piece that will do this?


"Les" wrote in message
...

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Les, do you know of a good online source for those Behringer pieces - one
that supports the warranty. I think I'll also need the RS-485 cable to
connect the two together. I'll be hooking it up to RS-232 on the
computer.

Also, any recommendations on a power inverter for these?


Either www.Partsexpress.com or www.musiciansfriend.com will have them for
$250. MF has free shipping right now on all orders over $200. But if you
needed other parts then PE may be the way to go. The warranty will be
honored at either place, Behringer offers excellent warranty service. Good
luck with it, take some pictures and let me know how is works out.

Les

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Cool, I'll order it this weekend.

One more question: do you know how to "convert" an optical digital output
to the AES/EBU input which connects to the XLR on this unit?

I've never personally done that but I know it can be done. I did a quick
search on Google and found several units that would do that, but the
cheapest was $220! I've never had the need to convert between the 2 since
anytime I've used the digital input it has always been AES/EBU. But most of
the time I use the analog inputs. Chad may know more about the digital
connection.

And apparently
I need a "splitter" (ie. distribution box) to provide input for both
units.
Any ideas on a piece that will do this?

They make optical digital splitters for around $10. So those are pretty
cheap and easy to find, even Radio Shack has them. I would imagine that
Parts Express would have them as well. It may be worth giving them a call as
they might be able to solve both of your problems at once.

Les

"Les" wrote in message
...

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Cool, I'll order it this weekend.

One more question: do you know how to "convert" an optical digital
output
to the AES/EBU input which connects to the XLR on this unit?

I've never personally done that but I know it can be done. I did a quick
search on Google and found several units that would do that, but the
cheapest was $220! I've never had the need to convert between the 2 since
anytime I've used the digital input it has always been AES/EBU. But most
of
the time I use the analog inputs. Chad may know more about the digital
connection.

And apparently
I need a "splitter" (ie. distribution box) to provide input for both
units.
Any ideas on a piece that will do this?

They make optical digital splitters for around $10. So those are pretty
cheap and easy to find, even Radio Shack has them. I would imagine that
Parts Express would have them as well. It may be worth giving them a call
as
they might be able to solve both of your problems at once.

Les



The optical splitters do work, some are as crude as "a couple mirrors" I use
one at home and half of it runs a fairly long way.

There is a way to just cable convert SPDIF to AES/EBU, crude but it works no
electronics involved. AES/EBU is just "balanced consumer" digital but has a
different impedance than SPDIF. An optical to SPDIF converter is fairly
cheap. I think Hosa makes one but it's a got a guzinta and cumzata
conversion, twice as much as you need. Parts express sells a one-way unit,
I think less than 50 bucks. OR switch to an audio card with SPDIF output,
simple old school SB audigy has it and works well. Some el-cheapo usb
soundcards have SPDIF and Toslink.

Check this out for conversion, comes in a kit form:

http://www.murraypro.com/spdif.htm

General info:

http://www.answers.com/topic/s-pdif

I honestly think that the wiring is Pin1XLR to sheild of SPDIF, Pin2XLR to
tip of SPDIF. Use 75 ohm cable for short runs and you will be OK. If you
have dropouts you can use a pseudo balancing method if the receiving device
will allow it or tie pin 3 to pin 1 via a 110 ohm resistor. I have used
cable conversions up to 6' long with no error from a AD converter to a
Tascam DA30II, prolly could go longer but I never tried Digital is
amazlingly forgiving depsite what some audiophools believe

Mark, let us know how it works out. I also think the Behringer may come
with the computer cable but if not those conversions are on line, I may even
have an extra one around the house, I'll look tonight. If I have one I'll
drop it in the mail to you, let you know tomorrow. E-bay has them for cheap
too!

Chad

The optical splitters do work, some are as crude as "a couple mirrors" I
use
one at home and half of it runs a fairly long way.

There is a way to just cable convert SPDIF to AES/EBU, crude but it works
no
electronics involved. AES/EBU is just "balanced consumer" digital but has
a
different impedance than SPDIF. An optical to SPDIF converter is fairly
cheap. I think Hosa makes one but it's a got a guzinta and cumzata
conversion, twice as much as you need. Parts express sells a one-way
unit,
I think less than 50 bucks. OR switch to an audio card with SPDIF output,
simple old school SB audigy has it and works well. Some el-cheapo usb
soundcards have SPDIF and Toslink.

Check this out for conversion, comes in a kit form:

http://www.murraypro.com/spdif.htm

General info:

http://www.answers.com/topic/s-pdif

I honestly think that the wiring is Pin1XLR to sheild of SPDIF, Pin2XLR to
tip of SPDIF. Use 75 ohm cable for short runs and you will be OK. If you
have dropouts you can use a pseudo balancing method if the receiving
device
will allow it or tie pin 3 to pin 1 via a 110 ohm resistor. I have used
cable conversions up to 6' long with no error from a AD converter to a
Tascam DA30II, prolly could go longer but I never tried Digital is
amazlingly forgiving depsite what some audiophools believe

Mark, let us know how it works out. I also think the Behringer may come
with the computer cable but if not those conversions are on line, I may
even
have an extra one around the house, I'll look tonight. If I have one I'll
drop it in the mail to you, let you know tomorrow. E-bay has them for
cheap
too!

Yeah, that'd be great. I don't know what it comes with. It doesn't say on
the website.

Anyway, I've ordered 2 of the DCX-2496's and also a Behringer SRC-2000,
which is discounted on musiciansfriend.com because it's been replaced with
the newer SRC-2496. For $79, it'll do the optical - AES/EBU XLR
conversion, and it has pretty lil' lights and buttons. I'm still trying to
figure out how difficult it will be to switch to an analog source with it.
The USB FM radio device I use has an analog output, so I guess I'll just
switch with the SRC-2000.

With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.

Yeah, that'd be great. I don't know what it comes with. It doesn't say
on
the website.

Anyway, I've ordered 2 of the DCX-2496's and also a Behringer SRC-2000,
which is discounted on musiciansfriend.com because it's been replaced with
the newer SRC-2496. For $79, it'll do the optical - AES/EBU XLR
conversion, and it has pretty lil' lights and buttons. I'm still trying
to
figure out how difficult it will be to switch to an analog source with it.
The USB FM radio device I use has an analog output, so I guess I'll just
switch with the SRC-2000.

With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers
and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.


Also, if anyone reading this is interested in my Zapco D/A converter, I'll
be selling it once I install this new stuff...

"MZ" wrote in message
...

Mark, let us know how it works out. I also think the Behringer may come
with the computer cable but if not those conversions are on line, I may
even
have an extra one around the house, I'll look tonight. If I have one
I'll
drop it in the mail to you, let you know tomorrow. E-bay has them for
cheap
too!

Yeah, that'd be great. I don't know what it comes with. It doesn't say
on
the website.


I'll look tonight, no problem! Most things come with them. How are you
planning to power it? I'm ALMOST certain that the DCX has a switch mode
supply in it, since the converter is older I'd wonder if it has iron or
switcher.

If both have a switcher PS you could use an old computer UPS gutted out.
Word to the wise, these are not intended for use with anything that has a
transformer as the first stage of step down. They are basically pulsed DC
and will tear up a tranny in short order and possibly infect the audio with
harmonics. If the converter has a tranny you are probably stuck finding a
small pure sine inverter. Shield the inverter well in a grounded case, they
will produce spurious emissions... How is your computer powered?

Anyway, I've ordered 2 of the DCX-2496's and also a Behringer SRC-2000,
which is discounted on musiciansfriend.com because it's been replaced with
the newer SRC-2496. For $79, it'll do the optical - AES/EBU XLR
conversion, and it has pretty lil' lights and buttons. I'm still trying
to
figure out how difficult it will be to switch to an analog source with it.
The USB FM radio device I use has an analog output, so I guess I'll just
switch with the SRC-2000.


Perfect, if I had more room I'd do that but I'm stuck in an analog domain
for now due to size constriants.

With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers
and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.


Nah, finding that much current for big amps would suck, unless you modded
out car amps but that would be a pain. Later you could go with the DEQ2496,
it has nice parametrics but if you are good with your driver shaping then
you probably won't need it. In other works I would leave 1-2 extra spaces
for addition, blanks are cheap or you could something weird like this....

http://www.funklogic.com/products.htm

Funky blank rack panels that look cool!!!! Yee-haw, us pro guys are wierd
eh?

I think you are going to love what you are about to create! Think about it
dealy, and EQ on EVERY input and output. It don't get no better than this,
dolan!!!

Chad

I'll look tonight, no problem! Most things come with them. How are you
planning to power it? I'm ALMOST certain that the DCX has a switch mode
supply in it, since the converter is older I'd wonder if it has iron or
switcher.

If both have a switcher PS you could use an old computer UPS gutted out.
Word to the wise, these are not intended for use with anything that has a
transformer as the first stage of step down. They are basically pulsed DC
and will tear up a tranny in short order and possibly infect the audio
with
harmonics. If the converter has a tranny you are probably stuck finding a
small pure sine inverter. Shield the inverter well in a grounded case,
they
will produce spurious emissions... How is your computer powered?

I was planning on buying a pure sine inverter. It seems the smallest I can
find is 150w, which tend to run a little over $100 new. I could get away
with a 75w I think, since the devices are rated at about 15w a piece if I
recall, but I can't seem to find a 75w pure sine inverter around. Thanks
for the tip about shielding it.

The computer is powered directly off 12v. It's designed to receive both
types of output. I have an isolating diode and capacitor in there (a few
thousand microfarads - admittedly, not really big enough to provide
appreciable support for dips, since the computer draws about 3 amps or so),
and basically nothing else. I was considering upgrading this little circuit
to something a bit more substantial, also idiot-proofing it so that it shuts
off due to undervoltage (considering my recent experience with mechanics and
their apparent inability to keep from pressing the on button).


With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers
and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.


Nah, finding that much current for big amps would suck, unless you modded
out car amps but that would be a pain.

That's an idea. How much of a pain would that be? Relocate a PCB and
redesign the heat sink. Add some *good* terminals (instead of the crap that
the car audio manufacturers continue to insist on using - yeah, I'm talkin'
to you, Durbin). Maybe stick some terminals for balanced XLR back there.
Voila! Rack-mount Orion/MTX/whatever amps with some custom (ie. pretty)
front-panel knobs for gain control, status LEDs...VU meter... err, but I'm
too lazy for that too.

Later you could go with the DEQ2496,
it has nice parametrics but if you are good with your driver shaping then
you probably won't need it. In other works I would leave 1-2 extra spaces
for addition, blanks are cheap or you could something weird like this....

http://www.funklogic.com/products.htm

Funky blank rack panels that look cool!!!! Yee-haw, us pro guys are wierd
eh?

I want the Digilog Dynamicator!!


I think you are going to love what you are about to create! Think about
it
dealy, and EQ on EVERY input and output. It don't get no better than
this,
dolan!!!

The level-adjusting will be ideal too. Especially in my current
kick-panel-less system, where the left tweet is too loud because of
proximity and the right midrange is too loud because of aiming. Phase
inversion will be useful too. I still haven't tested my tweeters and sub
inverted yet, mostly because I'm avoiding having to actually go back there
and unplug speaker wires. Now I'll be able to adjust it all on the
computer...

"MZ" wrote in message
...
I'll look tonight, no problem! Most things come with them. How are you
planning to power it? I'm ALMOST certain that the DCX has a switch mode
supply in it, since the converter is older I'd wonder if it has iron or
switcher.

If both have a switcher PS you could use an old computer UPS gutted out.
Word to the wise, these are not intended for use with anything that has a
transformer as the first stage of step down. They are basically pulsed
DC
and will tear up a tranny in short order and possibly infect the audio
with
harmonics. If the converter has a tranny you are probably stuck finding
a
small pure sine inverter. Shield the inverter well in a grounded case,
they
will produce spurious emissions... How is your computer powered?

I was planning on buying a pure sine inverter. It seems the smallest I
can
find is 150w, which tend to run a little over $100 new. I could get away
with a 75w I think, since the devices are rated at about 15w a piece if I
recall, but I can't seem to find a 75w pure sine inverter around. Thanks
for the tip about shielding it.


Pure sine's aren't as nasty as you don't have oversoot on the square wave,
it's the overshoot that gets everywhere, you should be fine unshielded, When
I referred to shielding I was referring to a computer UPS homebrew job. I
was thinking of going digital and using a homebrew making sure I use a unit
with a switcher. With the different voltages in these (+/-15-17, +12, +5,
and +3.3) it's cheaper to just build up a switcher that fab out a torrid
with that many taps and then rectify, regulate, and filter it.

But if the processors have a switcher in them then you are wasting your
money on a pure sine unless down the road you want to use something with a
transformer. With a switcher the first thing the AC hits is a rectifier no
matter what comes in it's all good after that, they will even run well on
DC, a chopper still has 120V RMS output at 60 cycles It's just very brutal
developing it. Hell 60 cycles don't mean nothing to them and they can
accept a wide range of voltage.

One quick way to find out is to look at the engineering specs, if it
specifys an input of like 100-240V 40-70Hz (some say 50-60) then it's a
switcher..... If it says 115 OR 230V, 50 OR 60Hz then it's iron. Iron is
very picky on input freq as the resonance of the primary has to be accounted
for.

The computer is powered directly off 12v. It's designed to receive both
types of output. I have an isolating diode and capacitor in there (a few
thousand microfarads - admittedly, not really big enough to provide
appreciable support for dips, since the computer draws about 3 amps or
so),
and basically nothing else. I was considering upgrading this little
circuit
to something a bit more substantial, also idiot-proofing it so that it
shuts
off due to undervoltage (considering my recent experience with mechanics
and
their apparent inability to keep from pressing the on button).


With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers
and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.


Nah, finding that much current for big amps would suck, unless you modded
out car amps but that would be a pain.

That's an idea. How much of a pain would that be? Relocate a PCB and
redesign the heat sink. Add some *good* terminals (instead of the crap
that
the car audio manufacturers continue to insist on using - yeah, I'm
talkin'
to you, Durbin). Maybe stick some terminals for balanced XLR back there.
Voila! Rack-mount Orion/MTX/whatever amps with some custom (ie. pretty)
front-panel knobs for gain control, status LEDs...VU meter... err, but
I'm
too lazy for that too.


Big pain, but you could do a front panel on a shelf that holds components,
as with all amps, sinks need air, but with amp kits you could build speaker
specific designs such as class A for tweets, AB1 for mids, and D for subs.
Power supplies could come out of old amps. Many are so seperated that a
hacksaw down the board will seperate the supply from the amp, done it
Presto! a hacksawed bipolar supply running from 12V, start collecting those
amps with blown finals Flip a dead amp over and it's obvious where the
supply ends and amp begins. They wanna keep the audio away from a switching
supply! I've seen older designs even use seperate boards.

Later you could go with the DEQ2496,
it has nice parametrics but if you are good with your driver shaping then
you probably won't need it. In other works I would leave 1-2 extra
spaces
for addition, blanks are cheap or you could something weird like this....

http://www.funklogic.com/products.htm

Funky blank rack panels that look cool!!!! Yee-haw, us pro guys are
wierd
eh?

I want the Digilog Dynamicator!!


Thought you's like those, you can even make the VU meters work and light up
if you want! For show you could use multi channel Dorrough loudness
monitors, pricey but way cool eye candy!


I think you are going to love what you are about to create! Think about
it
dealy, and EQ on EVERY input and output. It don't get no better than
this,
dolan!!!

The level-adjusting will be ideal too. Especially in my current
kick-panel-less system, where the left tweet is too loud because of
proximity and the right midrange is too loud because of aiming. Phase
inversion will be useful too. I still haven't tested my tweeters and sub
inverted yet, mostly because I'm avoiding having to actually go back there
and unplug speaker wires. Now I'll be able to adjust it all on the
computer...



Not to mention once it's aligned you will find it soooo much more focused
and less fatiguing, everything arrives at precisely the correct time. I'm
jealous, Currently in the new car I'm aftermarket head and ****TY stock
speakers!

Chad

Pure sine's aren't as nasty as you don't have oversoot on the square wave,
it's the overshoot that gets everywhere, you should be fine unshielded,
When
I referred to shielding I was referring to a computer UPS homebrew job. I
was thinking of going digital and using a homebrew making sure I use a
unit
with a switcher. With the different voltages in these (+/-15-17, +12, +5,
and +3.3) it's cheaper to just build up a switcher that fab out a torrid
with that many taps and then rectify, regulate, and filter it.

But if the processors have a switcher in them then you are wasting your
money on a pure sine unless down the road you want to use something with a
transformer. With a switcher the first thing the AC hits is a rectifier
no
matter what comes in it's all good after that, they will even run well on
DC, a chopper still has 120V RMS output at 60 cycles It's just very
brutal
developing it. Hell 60 cycles don't mean nothing to them and they can
accept a wide range of voltage.

One quick way to find out is to look at the engineering specs, if it
specifys an input of like 100-240V 40-70Hz (some say 50-60) then it's a
switcher..... If it says 115 OR 230V, 50 OR 60Hz then it's iron. Iron is
very picky on input freq as the resonance of the primary has to be
accounted
for.

Checking the spec sheet, it says "internal switch-mode power supply for
maximum flexibility (110-240 v).


That's an idea. How much of a pain would that be? Relocate a PCB and
redesign the heat sink. Add some *good* terminals (instead of the crap
that
the car audio manufacturers continue to insist on using - yeah, I'm
talkin'
to you, Durbin). Maybe stick some terminals for balanced XLR back
there.
Voila! Rack-mount Orion/MTX/whatever amps with some custom (ie. pretty)
front-panel knobs for gain control, status LEDs...VU meter... err, but
I'm
too lazy for that too.


Big pain, but you could do a front panel on a shelf that holds components,
as with all amps, sinks need air, but with amp kits you could build
speaker
specific designs such as class A for tweets, AB1 for mids, and D for subs.
Power supplies could come out of old amps. Many are so seperated that a
hacksaw down the board will seperate the supply from the amp, done it
Presto! a hacksawed bipolar supply running from 12V, start collecting
those
amps with blown finals Flip a dead amp over and it's obvious where the
supply ends and amp begins. They wanna keep the audio away from a
switching
supply! I've seen older designs even use seperate boards.

Do you know of any amps off the top of your head that are especially
adaptable for being separated? Speaker specific designs are probably the
way to go, but I might have trouble with the class D though. I've never
done one of those before. I'm almost thinking of just re-housing a class D
like I mentioned in my last post. Maybe I should ask JD if he has any
Directed 600d's sitting around with a destroyed chassis/pots/connectors but
intact guts..

"MZ" wrote in message
...

Yeah, that'd be great. I don't know what it comes with. It doesn't say
on
the website.

Anyway, I've ordered 2 of the DCX-2496's and also a Behringer SRC-2000,
which is discounted on musiciansfriend.com because it's been replaced with
the newer SRC-2496. For $79, it'll do the optical - AES/EBU XLR
conversion, and it has pretty lil' lights and buttons. I'm still trying
to
figure out how difficult it will be to switch to an analog source with it.
The USB FM radio device I use has an analog output, so I guess I'll just
switch with the SRC-2000.

With all this rack-mount stuff, I should probably build some amplifiers
and
throw them in some 3u cases... but I know I'm way too lazy for that.


See, I told you Chad would know all about that for you They do not come
with anything other than the power cable and instruction book (although in
many different languages). So, you will need to purchase the serial cable.
Be sure when you get the units you check the firmware version. I've had to
update all the ones I have purchased.

You could do some sort of rackmount amps. They sell just plain old 16 gauge
rackmount chassis in various depths and rack units. You could almost just
drop one in there! Of course you would have cooling and size issues.

Hope you enjoy them, show some pics of the final product.

Les

"MZ" wrote in message
...

Bad news... No cable. It must have gotten sold, given away, or pitched
during the recent move, sorry

Checking the spec sheet, it says "internal switch-mode power supply for
maximum flexibility (110-240 v).


There ya go! Many companies are doing this now to keep costs down, they no
longer have to make seperate units for American and overseas units, with
production bering in China it's much easier for them. No sorting just one
unit for everyone. Makes it nice for us touring guys going overseas in that
we don't have to worry about conversion, although 50% of my gear is still
iron core

When I went to school at Crown some of the overseas clients were upset that
Crown made the CE4000 universal voltage, now Americans could get them for
cost then sell them privately overseas and make a profit while selling them
less than the overseas dealers could get them for due to tarrifs. I think
that has been worked around but it was a problem for a while.


Do you know of any amps off the top of your head that are especially
adaptable for being separated? Speaker specific designs are probably the
way to go, but I might have trouble with the class D though. I've never
done one of those before. I'm almost thinking of just re-housing a class
D
like I mentioned in my last post. Maybe I should ask JD if he has any
Directed 600d's sitting around with a destroyed chassis/pots/connectors
but
intact guts..




Ironically I just got an old Phoenix Gold MS275 in for repair last night,
wow that's an easy one! Honestly they are all pretty much easy, it's just
inherent in the design, the only thing that will keep it from working from
the get go is the fact that there is usually thermal protection around the
finals in the form of a thermistor. You will need to relocate this to the
new PS sink. This is to shut down the power supply if the amp section gets
too hot. Other than that the other protection for the PS is usually just
overcurrent protection in case the finals short and it starts drawing huge
current too fast. So grab some old ones and hack away!

I used an old (targa!) amp power supply to power some Rane gear. Rane has
an external AC power wart that delivers split phase AC to the rectifier,
filtering and regulation that is built into the unit. The old Targa had
around 20V rails on the HV side. I regulated this down to 17V with LM317's
and 318's in a 220 case and mounted them where the old finals were, Wola a
bipolar 5A power supply for analog gear! The amp was very small and easy to
conceal, it NEVER got hot with such a light load

As for building amps.... Why re-invent the wheel? There are countless kits
and modules out there. Some are even PWM capable of doing HF also.
Although the idea of using class A for the tweets sounds sweet to me.

One company that sells modules that comes to mind is Powersoft, they make
KILLER PA amps, they are VERY efficient and I have been beating the snot out
of a Digam5000 on subs for 3 years without a glitch, it barely gets warm. I
also use them for mids and highs and notice no sound difference than from
using standard class AB's.

Powersoft link:
http://pro-audio.powersoft.it/

You may be able to get them for use with an external supply, most already
accept AC

Here's a taste of a kit amp:
http://www.quasarelectronics.com/1199.htm

http://www.cadaudio.dk/pwmaudio_en.htm

http://www.d2audio.com

TDA devices work too!!!

http://www.radiolocman.com/electrica....html?di=18795


Now I want some pics!!!

Did you order rack rail yet? Parts express sells Middle Atlantic, just angle
iron already tapped for rack spacing. Much easier than DIY.

Don't forget to pick up some XLR Female and RCA males! Also don't be afraid
to use install grade wire Like Gepco 61801EZ or the Belden equiv, (I like
Gepco) It looks thin but it's nice because it's easy to work with and has a
100% foil shield. It's nice cable, I have no problems using it under a
50,000 watt FM tower with a 1000 watt AM sideskirt (good rejection) May get
strange looks because it's far from "monster". It's balanced cable so you
can wire the XLR end balanced and unbalance at the RCA this will allow you
to only switch one end out if you decide to balance your amps.


Best of luck, please ask and tell, BTW my mail is valid if you need it.

Chad

Bad news... No cable. It must have gotten sold, given away, or pitched
during the recent move, sorry

It's ok. Isn't it just cat5 though? I could always make one...

I'll be checking out your links tomorrow. I haven't yet decided on how to
mount these - or how to do my entire amp/computer/processor rack, for that
matter. The rack-mount amp project will be later, so I'll need to do
something in the meantime.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Bad news... No cable. It must have gotten sold, given away, or pitched
during the recent move, sorry

It's ok. Isn't it just cat5 though? I could always make one...


Nope, it's just whatever they make bulk serial cable out of... the cheap
stuff Prety sure places like best buy have what you need.

I'll be checking out your links tomorrow. I haven't yet decided on how to
mount these - or how to do my entire amp/computer/processor rack, for that
matter. The rack-mount amp project will be later, so I'll need to do
something in the meantime.

Rackmount the computer

Chad

Bad news... No cable. It must have gotten sold, given away, or pitched
during the recent move, sorry

It's ok. Isn't it just cat5 though? I could always make one...


Nope, it's just whatever they make bulk serial cable out of... the cheap
stuff Prety sure places like best buy have what you need.

But it appears to have ethernet ends on it in the picture.



I'll be checking out your links tomorrow. I haven't yet decided on how
to
mount these - or how to do my entire amp/computer/processor rack, for
that
matter. The rack-mount amp project will be later, so I'll need to do
something in the meantime.

Rackmount the computer

Actually, that's exactly what I'll do. I'll rackmount the whole lot, and
nevermind the intermediate installation. That reminds me... I was
considering wiring up my computer to turn on via RF remote, since my USB
turnon method from my LCD has been acting up. My car has those programmable
garage door buttons built in, and alas, here I am garageless. I don't know
how these things program - but I was thinking of trying one of those radio
shack RF switches on it. Then I realized that they need 110v. Do you know
of any that will run off 12v, or do I have to roll my own?

Anyway, the computer motherboard and power supply are currently on separate
boards inside the ITX chassis. They're set on spacers, so they'd be easy to
adapt to another case. I've actually got a hard drive shock absorber around
that wouldn't fit in the ITX case, so moving it into a larger rack-mount
case would work. My remote turn on circuit, the USB hub, the undervoltage
circuit, etc, can probably all make its way into the case, saving space and
cleaning up wires a bit.

Any ideas on how to get a rack to look good in a car trunk? It seems to me
that it might look a bit too out of place.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Rackmount the computer

Actually, that's exactly what I'll do. I'll rackmount the whole lot, and
nevermind the intermediate installation. That reminds me... I was
considering wiring up my computer to turn on via RF remote, since my USB
turnon method from my LCD has been acting up. My car has those
programmable garage door buttons built in, and alas, here I am garageless.
I don't know how these things program - but I was thinking of trying one
of those radio shack RF switches on it. Then I realized that they need
110v. Do you know of any that will run off 12v, or do I have to roll my
own?

You can roll your own from.... A garage door opener board. I actually think
they run on 12V internal. But easier... What would stop you from using the
terminals supplied on the MOBO and running a wire up to a button? XP and
BIOSs can be configured so that a push of the power button will start the
windoze shutdown sequence, I would even consider a safety roll your own
device that would pulse a relay and shut down the computer if the ignition
has been of for say, 30 minutes to keep it from, well, you already went thru
that

But if you want to go RF a cheapo opener device should do the trick. Your
IM for the car has instruction on how to program them. I know most will
adapt to the X10 home automation systems, for example in our 300M I could
open the garage door with one button and turn on an inside light with
another. I wonder what voltage the internals of the ratshaq remote run at?
Never had one apart.



Any ideas on how to get a rack to look good in a car trunk? It seems to
me that it might look a bit too out of place.


Do you have a false wall anywhere? You could just flush it into the wall
using rack rail. Unfortunately I do not know your sub config and where it is
mounted, etc. Put a pic on photobucket or something and e-mail it over and
we can scratch heads in unison (or just e-mail me a pic, uni caps me at 5MB)
Really a false wall is the only way I have seen it done other than
removing the front of the rack mount device and remoting the guts. It's a
caddy right? Mafia trunk? One time I saw someone build up a step in the
side of the trunk and used it as a rack power, and cable management. It
made the trunk an odd size and would be difficult to get to the gear as it
sits sideways.

Rack rail for roll your own cases:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=262-386

You can roll your own from.... A garage door opener board. I actually
think
they run on 12V internal. But easier... What would stop you from using
the
terminals supplied on the MOBO and running a wire up to a button? XP and
BIOSs can be configured so that a push of the power button will start the
windoze shutdown sequence, I would even consider a safety roll your own
device that would pulse a relay and shut down the computer if the ignition
has been of for say, 30 minutes to keep it from, well, you already went
thru
that

I could easily reroute the power button on the computer to the front. But I
just didn't want to bother with that approach because I have nowhere to
really put a button. On the other hand, I could make use of the buttons
already present in my car going the RF route.

The way I currently power OFF the machine is via the touchscreen - there's
an "OFF" icon in the quick launch bar. One touch and it shuts down. Since
it's an ATX supply, this automatically turns the computer off. Turning on
the computer is done by simply turning on the touchscreen. Somehow, this is
sending a signal, presumably through the USB connection, which turns on the
computer. It only works when attached to the USB card and not to the
on-board USB. I'm not sure why. Sometimes it doesn't turn on this way and
I have no idea why, which is why I was considering adding the RF capability.


But if you want to go RF a cheapo opener device should do the trick. Your
IM for the car has instruction on how to program them. I know most will
adapt to the X10 home automation systems, for example in our 300M I could
open the garage door with one button and turn on an inside light with
another. I wonder what voltage the internals of the ratshaq remote run
at?
Never had one apart.

I looked in the car's manual and it seems pretty simple to program. You
basically point the remote at it after entering a sequence of button pushes.


Any ideas on how to get a rack to look good in a car trunk? It seems to
me that it might look a bit too out of place.


Do you have a false wall anywhere? You could just flush it into the wall
using rack rail.

I don't have a false wall. And for the purpose of maximizing trunk space,
I'd prefer not to install one. On the other hand, I'm going the rackmount
route, which isn't exactly the best approach for maximizing trunk space.

Unfortunately I do not know your sub config and where it is
mounted, etc. Put a pic on photobucket or something and e-mail it over and
we can scratch heads in unison (or just e-mail me a pic, uni caps me at
5MB)
Really a false wall is the only way I have seen it done other than
removing the front of the rack mount device and remoting the guts. It's a
caddy right? Mafia trunk? One time I saw someone build up a step in the
side of the trunk and used it as a rack power, and cable management. It
made the trunk an odd size and would be difficult to get to the gear as it
sits sideways.

The sub is mounted behind the left wheel well in a ~1cu ft box. I've got a
temporary box in place now which fits in that space surprisingly well, but
the real box should be a little tighter and push further back. I was
basically planning on just sticking the rack towards the front (ie. cabin
side) of the trunk. I'll make measurements and take a picture or two later.
I've got a web server to host it on.

I guess what I'm asking is how I should actually build the rack. I don't
know if there are prefab sides of all sizes, and I don't know how to
actually affix it to the car. I have places where it can attach at the top
(where I was going to hang my newly constructed - and now useless - amp
rack). I could attach it to the floor as well. That should be sufficient.
The big question will be how much space I have under the rear deck to put
all this stuff. I fear that I may need to do two racks side by side because
one might be too tall. If that's the case, then yeah, I'll go the false
wall route.

Anyway, yesterday I did some tinkering. I have an older a/d/s/ 625x
collecting dust. I opened it up, and it would be an ideal candidate for
transplantation into a rackmount chassis. It removes easily from the
chassis, and the transistors/rectifiers are affixed to a metal plate
embedded in the PCB. The plate already has screwholes in it. What do you
suggest I do for heatsinking these things?

I think going this route will end up being easier and cheaper than doing a
kit. The problem with this amp though is that it's only 25 watts per
channel - fine for my front tweeters and rear dome mids, but probably not
quite enough for my front 4" mids. Currently I'm using a P840 for these
three pairs of speakers, with 4 of the channels bridged down to two for the
front mids. Hopefully this amplifier is as "transplantable" as the 625x.
My other two amps are an Orion 8004 for the front and rear 6's, and an ESX
Q1752 for the sub. If I recall, the ESX is a poor choice for removal from
the chassis. This may be the right time to pick up a class D amp from
Directed or MTX or something, and put the ESX into retirement. I'll put
them into empty cases and install my own status LEDs on the front and better
terminals on the back. In the process, I'll have to create balanced XLR
connections for them.

As for the computer, I was thinking about installing the mini-ITX board in
something like this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=3#c146 . Basically
plug and play there, though it appears I may have to go off the power
inverter with that one. The alternative to that would be to buy a generic
2U chassis and install the board in it, as well as a 12v input computer
power supply I have. The power supply is probably too tall to fit in a 1U.
The advantage of this is that it will have its own power supply, and the
case will have more room in it for a hard drive shock absorber that I
already have and the separate remote/auto-off circuit. We'll see how I'm
doing for space once I make the measurements.

The way I currently power OFF the machine is via the touchscreen - there's
an "OFF" icon in the quick launch bar. One touch and it shuts down.

A command chainer? Good deal.

Since
it's an ATX supply, this automatically turns the computer off. Turning on
the computer is done by simply turning on the touchscreen. Somehow, this
is
sending a signal, presumably through the USB connection, which turns on
the
computer. It only works when attached to the USB card and not to the
on-board USB. I'm not sure why. Sometimes it doesn't turn on this way
and
I have no idea why, which is why I was considering adding the RF
capability.


The card usb prolly has +5V all the time and the on board does not. You can
get usb to get along with the "wake on lan" unfortunately welcome to
windoze. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Every time I start my
home PC I have to go to the control panel to get the volume icon to pop up,
even though I've told it countless times to stick there. That's the only
way I can quickly switch between digital and analog outputs going to
different monitoring rigs, grrrrr, thankfully that machine rarely shuts off


Being active in RF I don't trust anything, there's so much RF junk out there
I would not trust a reliable ride home to a frequency that is accessable to
anyone with a garage door opener in their car. But failure is unlikely and
should work well. Going to the rednek rummages this weekend to pick up some
disposable cheapo tools, if I find a remote suystem for a sacrificial price
I'll grab it and throw it on the bench.


Any ideas on how to get a rack to look good in a car trunk? It seems
to
me that it might look a bit too out of place.


Do you have a false wall anywhere? You could just flush it into the wall
using rack rail.

I don't have a false wall. And for the purpose of maximizing trunk space,
I'd prefer not to install one. On the other hand, I'm going the rackmount
route, which isn't exactly the best approach for maximizing trunk space.


Unfortunately I do not know your sub config and where it is
mounted, etc. Put a pic on photobucket or something and e-mail it over
and
we can scratch heads in unison (or just e-mail me a pic, uni caps me at
5MB)
Really a false wall is the only way I have seen it done other than
removing the front of the rack mount device and remoting the guts. It's
a
caddy right? Mafia trunk? One time I saw someone build up a step in the
side of the trunk and used it as a rack power, and cable management. It
made the trunk an odd size and would be difficult to get to the gear as
it
sits sideways.

The sub is mounted behind the left wheel well in a ~1cu ft box. I've got
a
temporary box in place now which fits in that space surprisingly well, but
the real box should be a little tighter and push further back. I was
basically planning on just sticking the rack towards the front (ie. cabin
side) of the trunk. I'll make measurements and take a picture or two
later.
I've got a web server to host it on.

I guess what I'm asking is how I should actually build the rack. I don't
know if there are prefab sides of all sizes, and I don't know how to
actually affix it to the car. I have places where it can attach at the
top
(where I was going to hang my newly constructed - and now useless - amp
rack). I could attach it to the floor as well. That should be
sufficient.
The big question will be how much space I have under the rear deck to put
all this stuff. I fear that I may need to do two racks side by side
because
one might be too tall. If that's the case, then yeah, I'll go the false
wall route.


3 space computer case? +2 spaces for processing. Is there enough room in
the other wheel well for a stair step angled rack with the computer on top
(many have very deep cases) and processing below?

Or as luck would have it, is the spare there?

Anyway, yesterday I did some tinkering. I have an older a/d/s/ 625x
collecting dust. I opened it up, and it would be an ideal candidate for
transplantation into a rackmount chassis. It removes easily from the
chassis, and the transistors/rectifiers are affixed to a metal plate
embedded in the PCB. The plate already has screwholes in it. What do you
suggest I do for heatsinking these things?


My grad student has a source for some cool sinks, he built a class A
headphone amp that you can heat your beverage with. He's gone now but I
will E-mail him, they were well built and came in a multitude of sizes.

I think going this route will end up being easier and cheaper than doing a
kit. The problem with this amp though is that it's only 25 watts per
channel - fine for my front tweeters and rear dome mids, but probably not
quite enough for my front 4" mids. Currently I'm using a P840 for these
three pairs of speakers, with 4 of the channels bridged down to two for
the
front mids. Hopefully this amplifier is as "transplantable" as the 625x.
My other two amps are an Orion 8004 for the front and rear 6's, and an ESX
Q1752 for the sub. If I recall, the ESX is a poor choice for removal from
the chassis. This may be the right time to pick up a class D amp from
Directed or MTX or something, and put the ESX into retirement. I'll put
them into empty cases and install my own status LEDs on the front and
better
terminals on the back. In the process, I'll have to create balanced XLR
connections for them.


Just use good transformers for unbalancing, this will eliminate any possible
reason for ground loops. I know it would SUCK to do another mounting method
for my 860MX, it just sucked taking it apart!!! If an amp is thin enough
it would fit on a 2 space shelf with a fan blowing across, fab up a front
panel, ghetto but effective

As for the computer, I was thinking about installing the mini-ITX board in
something like this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=3#c146 . Basically
plug and play there, though it appears I may have to go off the power
inverter with that one. The alternative to that would be to buy a generic
2U chassis and install the board in it, as well as a 12v input computer
power supply I have. The power supply is probably too tall to fit in a
1U.
The advantage of this is that it will have its own power supply, and the
case will have more room in it for a hard drive shock absorber that I
already have and the separate remote/auto-off circuit. We'll see how I'm
doing for space once I make the measurements.



I think you have to go 3U to get cards in it. I had a rackmount 3U with a
1U keyboard/LCD on the road (my RackTop as opposed to a Laptop) I think 3
is the lowest you can go without using riser cards, these suck as they limit
your card count immensely. Mine had 2 SC's 1 USB 2.0, 1 Firewire, ethernet,
and Vid. I needed the space then! I'll keep thinking, fun project!

Chad

The card usb prolly has +5V all the time and the on board does not. You
can
get usb to get along with the "wake on lan" unfortunately welcome to
windoze. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Every time I start my
home PC I have to go to the control panel to get the volume icon to pop
up,
even though I've told it countless times to stick there. That's the only
way I can quickly switch between digital and analog outputs going to
different monitoring rigs, grrrrr, thankfully that machine rarely shuts
off


Being active in RF I don't trust anything, there's so much RF junk out
there
I would not trust a reliable ride home to a frequency that is accessable
to
anyone with a garage door opener in their car. But failure is unlikely
and
should work well. Going to the rednek rummages this weekend to pick up
some
disposable cheapo tools, if I find a remote suystem for a sacrificial
price
I'll grab it and throw it on the bench.

Sounds good. Thanks.


3 space computer case? +2 spaces for processing. Is there enough room in
the other wheel well for a stair step angled rack with the computer on top
(many have very deep cases) and processing below?

Or as luck would have it, is the spare there?

Spare is under the floor. That well isn't very deep because it has one of
those organizer panel things built into it, which can't be removed without
re-doing the entire carpeting job. Currently, I've actually got things like
the USB sound, Zapco DAC's power supply, computer remote circuit, USB tuner,
etc mounted in there. I'd like to be able to remove those USB devices and
remote circuit and mount them IN the rackmount chassis with a terminal on
the back plate. They're fairly small.

My grad student has a source for some cool sinks, he built a class A
headphone amp that you can heat your beverage with. He's gone now but I
will E-mail him, they were well built and came in a multitude of sizes.

Cool. Lemme know...

Just use good transformers for unbalancing, this will eliminate any
possible
reason for ground loops. I know it would SUCK to do another mounting
method
for my 860MX, it just sucked taking it apart!!! If an amp is thin enough
it would fit on a 2 space shelf with a fan blowing across, fab up a front
panel, ghetto but effective

The P840 is very thin. I was considering using perforated front and back
plates anyway. I suppose I should go with a fan as well. I wonder if it
would be worthwhile trying to tap into the thermistor to make it variable
speed? My concern though is introducing noise.


I think you have to go 3U to get cards in it. I had a rackmount 3U with a
1U keyboard/LCD on the road (my RackTop as opposed to a Laptop) I think 3
is the lowest you can go without using riser cards, these suck as they
limit
your card count immensely. Mine had 2 SC's 1 USB 2.0, 1 Firewire,
ethernet,
and Vid. I needed the space then! I'll keep thinking, fun project!

The ITX board that I currently have has everything on-board, except for the
audio stuff and GPS which are USB. I have only one card on a short riser,
and that's the USB card. The case it's in now is probably the same height
inside as a 2U, so I should be ok.