(S888Wheel) wrote:

From: (Nousaine)
Date: 5/23/2004 3:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 4H9sc.102341$xw3.6074920@attbi_s04

Bromo wrote:

On 5/22/04 10:18 AM, in article , "cjc"
wrote:


I did miss the boat on Dolby S. From what I read it made metal tape
sound about as clean as one could want (well, lets not get crazy,
there's always *cleaner* I guess). To me, that would be digital
clean. But it got replaced by the MD and CD-R, kinda like the big-iron
steam trains right at the cusp of diesel.

I figure as the CD players are getting really good as DVD-A/SACD, MP3, AAC,
AIFF are all taking off - doesn't it seem like the best innvations and
equipment ends up as they are challenged by new technologies that will
eventually replace them?

It is often true that the soon-to-be-replaced technology gets much better in
its final days as it tries to hold on. For example, it was known for at
least
a
decade prior to cd that radial tracking tone arms were superior to pivoted
arms.

While there were a few very expensive radial trackers available from time to
time they never really were implemented UNTIL cd came on the scene and
almost
overnight even close-n-play turntables sprouted linear tracking arms.

So, quite typically, the last models of obsolete technolgy are the very best
ever made.


So those were "the last models" twenty + years ago? So much for vinyl being
obsolete.

Actually there often remains a residual-use phase of the technology life cycle
where new off-beat applications (turntablist recordings where record players
are used as musical instruments), nostalgia and collectors cherish days gone
by.

Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not obsolete" in
performance terms.

On 5/24/04 9:11 PM, in article I2xsc.38198$zw.15564@attbi_s01, "Nousaine"
wrote:

So those were "the last models" twenty + years ago? So much for vinyl being
obsolete.

Actually there often remains a residual-use phase of the technology life cycle
where new off-beat applications (turntablist recordings where record players
are used as musical instruments), nostalgia and collectors cherish days gone
by.

I do know about that hardcore base - but I wonder if there are some figures
that would show how many new-to-vinyl (such as people that came of age
starting in the 80's when CD was on the rise) people would take the plunge.

Meaning - those not nostalgic, nor experienced with the medium.

Anyone know?


Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and
generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not obsolete"
in
performance terms.

Good analogy about Corvettes - and very apt! Having had the pleasure of
riding in an '53 Corvette once - I would tend to agree that they aren't
obsolete the way a Model A or T might be! :-)

On Tue, 25 May 2004 01:42:31 GMT, Bromo wrote:

Tom Nousaine wrote:

Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not obsolete" in
performance terms.

Good analogy about Corvettes - and very apt! Having had the pleasure of
riding in an '53 Corvette once - I would tend to agree that they aren't
obsolete the way a Model A or T might be! :-)

An apt analogy indeed - as a '53 Corvette will be handily outperformed
by the 'CD' of a modern Toyota Corolla...........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

From: (Nousaine)
Date: 5/24/2004 6:11 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: I2xsc.38198$zw.15564@attbi_s01

(S888Wheel) wrote:

From: (Nousaine)
Date: 5/23/2004 3:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 4H9sc.102341$xw3.6074920@attbi_s04

Bromo wrote:

On 5/22/04 10:18 AM, in article , "cjc"
wrote:


I did miss the boat on Dolby S. From what I read it made metal tape
sound about as clean as one could want (well, lets not get crazy,
there's always *cleaner* I guess). To me, that would be digital
clean. But it got replaced by the MD and CD-R, kinda like the big-iron
steam trains right at the cusp of diesel.

I figure as the CD players are getting really good as DVD-A/SACD, MP3,
AAC,
AIFF are all taking off - doesn't it seem like the best innvations and
equipment ends up as they are challenged by new technologies that will
eventually replace them?

It is often true that the soon-to-be-replaced technology gets much better
in
its final days as it tries to hold on. For example, it was known for at
least
a
decade prior to cd that radial tracking tone arms were superior to pivoted
arms.

While there were a few very expensive radial trackers available from time
to
time they never really were implemented UNTIL cd came on the scene and
almost
overnight even close-n-play turntables sprouted linear tracking arms.

So, quite typically, the last models of obsolete technolgy are the very
best
ever made.


So those were "the last models" twenty + years ago? So much for vinyl being
obsolete.

Actually there often remains a residual-use phase of the technology life
cycle
where new off-beat applications (turntablist recordings where record players
are used as musical instruments), nostalgia and collectors cherish days gone
by.


Which has nothing to do with the multitude of highend turntables arms and
cartridges that followed since twenty years ago. Let's not forget the audiofile
original recordings and reissues that also came well after twenty years ago.
The fact is high end vinyl playback equipment is still being designed and
produced today and will likely for the long term future. Same for the music on
vinyl as well.

Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and
generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the
most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not obsolete"
in
performance terms.

Your analogy simply does not apply. I'm noty talking about equipment from the
fifties.

On 5/25/04 10:02 PM, in article OUSsc.25963$af3.1355334@attbi_s51,
"S888Wheel" wrote:

Which has nothing to do with the multitude of highend turntables arms and
cartridges that followed since twenty years ago. Let's not forget the
audiofile
original recordings and reissues that also came well after twenty years ago.
The fact is high end vinyl playback equipment is still being designed and
produced today and will likely for the long term future. Same for the music on
vinyl as well.

Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and
generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the
most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not obsolete"
in
performance terms.

Your analogy simply does not apply. I'm noty talking about equipment from the
fifties.

Question about this, though: Are there newbies to vinyl that were born late
enough that it was at most a childhood memory - but never actually owned or
bought the recordings?

I think that will answer the question about if the nostalgia crowd is
fuelling the current turntable and vinyl record drive ... ?

Bromo wrote:

On 5/24/04 9:11 PM, in article I2xsc.38198$zw.15564@attbi_s01, "Nousaine"
wrote:

So those were "the last models" twenty + years ago? So much for vinyl
being
obsolete.

Actually there often remains a residual-use phase of the technology life
cycle
where new off-beat applications (turntablist recordings where record
players
are used as musical instruments), nostalgia and collectors cherish days
gone
by.

I do know about that hardcore base - but I wonder if there are some figures
that would show how many new-to-vinyl (such as people that came of age
starting in the 80's when CD was on the rise) people would take the plunge.

Meaning - those not nostalgic, nor experienced with the medium.

Anyone know?

Actually I don't. And I don't think that I know anyone who does. About the
closest person who comes close to that idea was a young fellow who bought a
cardboard carton full of Motown 45s (he'd been hearing the songs on oldies
stations) at a garage sale and was looking for a record player to play them. As
far as I know he never acquired same.

The big users of vinyl known to me are a surf-band musicologist and older
hardcore jazz fans (who also use wax cylinders, 78s, 45s, 33.3s, 4-track,
8-track, cassettes, DAT, open reel, cds, laser discs and even dvd.)

.....Remainder snipped.....

From: Bromo
Date: 5/26/2004 5:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 5/25/04 10:02 PM, in article OUSsc.25963$af3.1355334@attbi_s51,
"S888Wheel" wrote:

Which has nothing to do with the multitude of highend turntables arms and
cartridges that followed since twenty years ago. Let's not forget the
audiofile
original recordings and reissues that also came well after twenty years
ago.
The fact is high end vinyl playback equipment is still being designed and
produced today and will likely for the long term future. Same for the music
on
vinyl as well.

Sometime ago I read that more than 85% of all Corvettes ever sold are
still
registered . This is because they are highly valued by collectors and
generally
do not (aside from frame rust) self-decompose with time. But not even the
most
ardent collector and enthusiast will argue that a 53 vette is "not
obsolete"
in
performance terms.

Your analogy simply does not apply. I'm noty talking about equipment from
the
fifties.

Question about this, though: Are there newbies to vinyl that were born late
enough that it was at most a childhood memory - but never actually owned or
bought the recordings?

I think that will answer the question about if the nostalgia crowd is
fuelling the current turntable and vinyl record drive ... ?







Well, in a way, I would be such a person. Yes I had records before the
invention of CDs but it was the invention of CDs that sparked my interest in
high end audio. I was quite taken by the promise of perfect sound and set out
to build a system that would do justice to the new,"perfect sound forever"
format. When it was suggected by a particular dealer that some people prefer
the sound of vinyl I scoffed at the idea. I told him I do not believe that
dragging a rock over a piece of plastic could possiblt sound as good as digital
playback. But I had never heard or heard of high end turntables. So I was
already an enthusiast of CDs before I ever compared them to high end LP
playback. My preference is *not* based in nostalgia.