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  #1   Report Post  
George M. Middius
 
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Default What's all this gum-beating about "tests"?



Is somebody trying to peddle some "test" equipment on the audio newsgroups?

I can't figure out the point of this discussion. Who would want to go to all
the trouble of setting up a scientifically meaningful "test" just to decide
which CD player to get? I don't think there's a shred of realism in this
ideology.

If you want "science", you can't just have a friend switch the components
back and forth, and then try to decide which is which. That's not a real
"test", it's just a crude simulation. If you want a real "test", you need
testing equipment, a truly quiet environment, and meaningful controls of
bias. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.

So I have to think that after one of these inane go-rounds about "tests",
somebody is going to pop up with an offer to sell some "test" equipment.
When it happens, we can all laugh about the salesman who tried to sell snow
to Eskimos.





  #2   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message


Is somebody trying to peddle some "test" equipment on the
audio newsgroups?


Yes. We've got a problem here with people who seem to think
that CD players and amplifiers are test equipment that
everybody needs to buy.

I can't figure out the point of this discussion.


Given your demonstrated lack of interest in audio Middius,
this surprises me very little.

Who would
want to go to all the trouble of setting up a

scientifically
meaningful "test" just to decide which CD player to get?


Good question. People like Pinkerton and I tell people that
CD players tend to sound very much alike. Therefore they
should make their CD player choices based other factors that
are more important to them.

Unfortunately we've got the technologically backward
nay-sayers like Fella, who want people to believe that their
are mind-boggling audible differences between CD players,
amplifiers and everything else. They're the guys who are
peddling tests - in their case sighted, non-level-matched,
non-time-synched listening tests. They're the guys who are
peddling test equipment, in their case people should buy
this amplifier and test it at home, and then buy that
amplifier and test it at home, and so forth.

I don't think there's a shred of realism in this

ideology.

Middius, you're not even a real person. How can you
logically present yourself as a judge of realism? Look at
the people around you like Art and Surf. They are so ashamed
of what they post here and their long-term close association
with you that they won't even use their real names here.

If you want "science", you can't just have a friend switch

the
components back and forth, and then try to decide which is
which.


It's not about science, its about doing a reasonble
comparison. That is, if you are actually going to do the
listening tests that people lik Fella and Art keep pushing.

That's not a real "test", it's just a crude simulation.


Agreed, what that kind of test procedure there's no
level-matching and there's no time-synching so of course
everything will sound different, which is what Art and Fella
keep pushing.

If you want a real "test", you need testing equipment, a

truly
quiet environment, and meaningful controls of bias.

Otherwise
you're just spinning your wheels.


Since when are you an expert about testing, Middius? What
good listening tests have you done and where have you posted
the results? Have you written any papers or magazine
articles about testing? Since when have you been in favor of
testing audio equipment? Why the change of heart?

So I have to think that after one of these inane go-rounds
about "tests", somebody is going to pop up with an offer

to
sell some "test" equipment.


Seems like a worthy business opportunity for you Middius,
given that you have no known job, no known tradem, no known
business, no known education, and no known means of support.

When it happens, we can all laugh
about the salesman who tried to sell snow to Eskimos.


Whatever that means.


  #3   Report Post  
Ayn Marx
 
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George M. Middius wrote:
Is somebody trying to peddle some "test" equipment on the audio newsgroups?

etc,,,,,,,,,Snip...

Please **** off back to the Land of The Brave and Zenophobic. We have
enough nut cases of our own here on Aus.Hi-Fi.

  #4   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
oups.com
George M. Middius wrote:
Is somebody trying to peddle some "test" equipment on the
audio newsgroups?

etc,,,,,,,,,Snip...

Please **** off back to the Land of The Brave and

Zenophobic.
We have enough nut cases of our own here on Aus.Hi-Fi.


The irony is that we have an Aussie who wants to chase all
the xenophobic Americans out of her sacred little part of
the world. Yes, she wants to chase the foreigners out!

Naah, Ayn isn't a xenophobe, no not even a little bit! ;-)


  #5   Report Post  
Fella
 
Posts: n/a
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Arny Krueger wrote:


Good question. People like Pinkerton and I tell people that
CD players tend to sound very much alike.


You impose your misconceptions upon people, you try to rob them of their
freedom of choice and preference, you try to rob them of their potential
audio enjoyment. It's almost criminal. There is almost a touch of evil
in ferstlers cynicism of "everything sounds the same you dumb tweakos"
attitude, for instance.

What's more, you people seem to be going after the high-end industry.
You'd be happy if they all just buckled up and whithered away into
bankruptcy. I don't want my kids to have to listen to music from wicked
sounding metallic assembly line crap gear produced with only
cost-effectiveness in mind and nothing else.

Therefore they
should make their CD player choices based other factors that
are more important to them.


Thus you mislead them.


Unfortunately we've got the technologically backward
nay-sayers like Fella, who want people to believe that their
are mind-boggling audible differences between CD players,
amplifiers and everything else.


I wouldn't go so far as to say "mind-boggling" .. When or if a piece of
equipment introduces mind-boggling huge differences to the music, it is
IMHO, somewhat "improper". It almost leads to means taking over the end,
that is, we have audio equipment in order to be able to listen to music,
yes, but with an amp like the BAT, you have music in order to be able to
listen to the luscious, extravagant, grandiose sound of the amp! Some
might "prefer" to have things that way, OK. But to me, it's improper,
though I am not offended by it in any way.

(It was quite a surprise actually. I had expected the BAT to sound more
like the lean, fast densen but with a better, a bit more daring bass
slam. Though it was fast, not the usually flatulent, slow bass one gets
from tube amps, but it turned out it was a tube-wannabe in the midrange.)


They're the guys who are
peddling tests - in their case sighted, non-level-matched,
non-time-synched listening tests.


You are the one peddling tests. I just merely say that the tests you
meddle do not work, since they kill off existing subtle differences,
what with the setup and the actual act of being subjected to them. I
just resist. I trust what I hear.



in their case people should buy
this amplifier and test it at home,


You do not need to buy something to test it at home. I never said that
people should constantly buy amps and switch them around. You have
trouble enough trying to express yourself, don't try it on my behalf also.



Agreed, what that kind of test procedure there's no
level-matching and there's no time-synching so of course
everything will sound different, which is what Art and Fella
keep pushing.


This is another example of your bull**** arny. There has been many
instances where with sighted auditioning a given piece of equipment
sounded almost identical to the piece it was supposed to better.



Since when are you an expert about testing, Middius?



Compared to you my dog is an expert-shlexpert on testing. And just
think, I don't even have a dog.


  #6   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"Fella" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:


Good question. People like Pinkerton and I tell people

that
CD players tend to sound very much alike.


You impose your misconceptions upon people,


Fella, you make it sound like Pinkerton and I have some
supernatural control over readers. Reading our posts is a
free choice. Our posts unlike yours Fella, are headed up
with our correct legal names. If people don't want to be
influenced by us, they have free control over their thoughts
and minds.

you try to rob them of their freedom of choice and

preference,

Fella, how do we rob people of their freedom via Usenet? It
appears that you are trying to rob us of our rights to free
speech by telling lies about us.

you try to rob them of their potential audio enjoyment.


Which audio enjoyment is that, Fella. Is it the enjoyment of
being duped into buying overpriced audio gear by nameless
aliases such as yourself who take advantage of the
untracable nature of Usenet to make elaborate claims about
expensive equipment that you show evidence of never having
even seen a proper picture of?

It's almost criminal.


Quit hyperventillating, Fella or whatever your real legal
name is.

There is almost a touch of evil
in ferstlers cynicism of "everything sounds the same you

dumb
tweakos" attitude, for instance.


Thanks Fella for showing that you can't distinguish between
what Ferstler actually says which is that some things sound
the same and what you make up for him to say, which is that
everything sound the same.


What's more, you people seem to be going after the

high-end industry.

So what is the High End industry, a sacred cow?

You'd be happy if they all just buckled up and
whithered away into bankruptcy.


If you haven't noticed Fella, most of us live in
more-or-less free competitive capitalist societies. Nobody
deserves a big chunk of people's cash just because they are
high end audio dealers or manufacturers.

I don't want my kids to have
to listen to music from wicked sounding metallic assembly

line
crap gear produced with only cost-effectiveness in mind

and
nothing else.


Fella, you make it sound like we put a freeze on your bank
accounts and are stopping you from wasting your money.

Therefore they
should make their CD player choices based other factors

that
are more important to them.


Thus you mislead them.


What is misleading about suggesting to people that they
should base their choices on real differences that matter to
them?

Unfortunately we've got the technologically backward
nay-sayers like Fella, who want people to believe that

their
are mind-boggling audible differences between CD players,
amplifiers and everything else.


I wouldn't go so far as to say "mind-boggling"


Perhaps, not with the rest of us watching.

.. When or if a
piece of equipment introduces mind-boggling huge

differences
to the music, it is IMHO, somewhat "improper".


Now you're splitting hairs Fella. Look at the elaborate
overblown claims you made about that BAT integrated amp
whose basic properties you didn't even know until I pointed
them out to you a few days ago.

It almost leads


They're the guys who are
peddling tests - in their case sighted,

non-level-matched,
non-time-synched listening tests.


You are the one peddling tests.


That's just a lame come-back. Try something original next
time, Fella.

I just merely say that the tests you meddle do not work,

since they kill off existing
subtle differences, what with the setup and the actual act

of being subjected to
them. I just resist. I trust what I hear.


No Fella, you trust uncontrolled level differences,
auditions where the identical same music is not played over
both pieces of equipment, and equipment being in full sight;
so that your prejudices and biases can control your choices.

in their case people should buy
this amplifier and test it at home,


You do not need to buy something to test it at home.


That may be true if you are your local hifi dealers favorite
sucker.

I never said that people should constantly buy amps and

switch them
around.


Well Fella you rant and rave against us for saying that is a
bad idea.

You have trouble enough trying to express yourself,
don't try it on my behalf also.


That's just another lame come-back. Try to say something
original next time, Fella.

Agreed, what that kind of test procedure there's no
level-matching and there's no time-synching so of course
everything will sound different, which is what Art and

Fella
keep pushing.


This is another example of your bull**** arny. There has

been
many instances where with sighted auditioning a given

piece of
equipment sounded almost identical to the piece it was
supposed to better.


Fella I note that you aren't addressing the fact that by
criticizing us for wanting levels to be matched, you are
promoting tests with mismatched levels. I note that you
aren't addressing the fact that by criticizing us for
wanting the music being matched, you are promoting tests
with mismatched music. I note that you aren't addressing the
fact that by criticizing us for sighted bias to be
controlled, you are promoting tests that are dominated by
sighted bias.

Since when are you an expert about testing, Middius?


Compared to you my dog is an expert-shlexpert on testing.

And
just think, I don't even have a dog.


That's just yet another insulting lame come-back. Try
something original and clever next time, Fella.


  #7   Report Post  
Fella
 
Posts: n/a
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Arny Krueger wrote:


Look at the elaborate
overblown claims you made about that BAT integrated amp
whose basic properties you didn't even know until I pointed
them out to you a few days ago.


You dumb-schmuck, I had just auditioned that amp for two weeks. Gees,
you can be dumb.

You google skccieenctist you.



Fella I note that you aren't addressing the fact that by
criticizing us for wanting levels to be matched,


No you dumb schmuck all I am saying is sit down and listen to the audio
gear as you are supposed to and trust your ears if they tell you they
hear something. Where is the word "test" there?



Try
something original and clever next time, Fella.



Why? It would be wasted on you.
  #8   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"Fella" the anonymous alias wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:


Look at the elaborate
overblown claims you made about that BAT integrated amp
whose basic properties you didn't even know until I

pointed
them out to you a few days ago.


You dumb-schmuck, I had just auditioned that amp for two
weeks. Gees, you can be dumb.


Given how little you actually knew about the BAT before I
corrected you Fella, that is highly doubtful. You didn't
even know its correct price. You were obviously just
dropping names, which is one of those things that people
like you that hide behind anonymous aliases can do quite
easily.

Fella I note that you aren't addressing the fact that by
criticizing us for wanting levels to be matched,


No you dumb schmuck all I am saying is sit down and listen

to
the audio gear as you are supposed to and trust your ears

if
they tell you they hear something. Where is the word

"test"
there?


The word test has been replaced by vague words and phrases
like "sit down and listen to
the audio gear as you are supposed to", and "trust your ears
if they tell you they hear something". You're just dancing
around the fact that you're talking about listening tests.

Fella, you like to joke about what my Pioneer receiver tells
me, but its not your ears but your brain that is telling you
things when you listen. One of the things that your brain
knows with your sighted evaluations is what you are
listening to. Anything that you might have been told about
the piece of equipment in the past could be affecting your
judgements.

Fella, your dismissal of the need for level-matching shows
how intellectually lazy you really are.




  #9   Report Post  
George Middius
 
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Arnii Kroofeces, destructor of human language, plops a big stinking one on
Usenet.

You impose your misconceptions upon people,


Fella, you make it sound like Pinkerton and I have some
supernatural control over readers.


I think he meant you want to brainwash people, not that you actually do it.

Reading our posts is a free choice.


I agree with this. If at all possible, Normals should ignore the Big **** and
the other 'borgs.

Our posts unlike yours Fella, are headed up
with our correct legal names.


"Headed up"? What's that, some new Krooglish term?

Who is "NYOB"? Who is "torrie****s"? Who is "Geostynch"? They're pseudonyms that
your apologists hide behind. Stop your lying, Mr. ****.


you try to rob them of their freedom of choice and preference,


Fella, how do we rob people of their freedom via Usenet?


Thanks Mr. Kroo**** for admitting that you are unable to read three words in a
row without losing the thread.

  #10   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
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"George Middius" wrote in
message

Arnii Kroofeces, destructor of human language, plops a big
stinking one on Usenet.

You impose your misconceptions upon people,


Fella, you make it sound like Pinkerton and I have some
supernatural control over readers.


I think he meant you want to brainwash people, not that

you
actually do it.


Middius, how can you say "I think" with a straight face?

Reading our posts is a free choice.


I agree with this. If at all possible, Normals should

ignore
the Big **** and the other 'borgs.


That seems to not even be working for your inner circle of
supporters, as important as they are to you Middius.

Our posts unlike yours Fella, are headed up
with our correct legal names.


"Headed up"? What's that, some new Krooglish term?


Vain attempt at obfuscation noted.

Who is "NYOB"? Who is "torrie****s"? Who is "Geostynch"?
They're pseudonyms that your apologists hide behind. Stop

your
lying, Mr. ****.


Thanks Middius for showing that you already forgot about
what I wrote at the top of the post about this being about
Pinkerton and I.

you try to rob them of their freedom of choice and
preference,


Fella, how do we rob people of their freedom via Usenet?


Thanks Mr. Kroo**** for admitting that you are unable to

read
three words in a row without losing the thread.


Totally non-responsive and irrelevant, Middius. Please post
again when your disability insurance covers prescribing you
a clue.




  #11   Report Post  
Stewart Pinkerton
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:50:08 +0300, Fella wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:


Good question. People like Pinkerton and I tell people that
CD players tend to sound very much alike.


You impose your misconceptions upon people, you try to rob them of their
freedom of choice and preference, you try to rob them of their potential
audio enjoyment.


Actually no, we're providing them with useful information which could
save them enough money to buy better speakers.........

It's almost criminal. There is almost a touch of evil
in ferstlers cynicism of "everything sounds the same you dumb tweakos"
attitude, for instance.

What's more, you people seem to be going after the high-end industry.


Yup, that's because it's full of incompetent con artists like Mark
Levinson, George Cardas, Yves Bernard Andre and Peter Qvortrup.

You'd be happy if they all just buckled up and whithered away into
bankruptcy.


Yup.

I don't want my kids to have to listen to music from wicked
sounding metallic assembly line crap gear produced with only
cost-effectiveness in mind and nothing else.


Pity that, since it sounds just the same as *well designed* high end
gear such as you can buy from Meridian or Krell. And you could then
buy really good speakers, which actually *do* make a difference.

Therefore they
should make their CD player choices based other factors that
are more important to them.


Thus you mislead them.


Nope, that's top-drawer advice.

Unfortunately we've got the technologically backward
nay-sayers like Fella, who want people to believe that their
are mind-boggling audible differences between CD players,
amplifiers and everything else.


I wouldn't go so far as to say "mind-boggling" .. When or if a piece of
equipment introduces mind-boggling huge differences to the music, it is
IMHO, somewhat "improper". It almost leads to means taking over the end,
that is, we have audio equipment in order to be able to listen to music,
yes, but with an amp like the BAT, you have music in order to be able to
listen to the luscious, extravagant, grandiose sound of the amp!


You just crucified your own argument. You're supposed to be listening
to the *musical performance*, you cretin!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
  #12   Report Post  
Stewart Pinkerton
 
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:35:40 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
roups.com
George M. Middius wrote:
Is somebody trying to peddle some "test" equipment on the
audio newsgroups?

etc,,,,,,,,,Snip...

Please **** off back to the Land of The Brave and

Zenophobic.
We have enough nut cases of our own here on Aus.Hi-Fi.


The irony is that we have an Aussie who wants to chase all
the xenophobic Americans out of her sacred little part of
the world. Yes, she wants to chase the foreigners out!

Naah, Ayn isn't a xenophobe, no not even a little bit! ;-)


Well, at least she's not a phukkin Abo or a Chink, Ms Hansen sorted
them out! Australia for the Australians, I say! I mean, the *real*
Australians, you know, the dregs from England's gutters.

As the New Zealanders say, anyone who emigrates from NZ to Oz is
obviously increasing the average IQ of both countries........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
  #13   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:21:54 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

Pity that, since it sounds just the same as *well designed* high end
gear such as you can buy from Meridian or Krell.


Said the Krell owner.
  #14   Report Post  
Fella
 
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Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:50:08 +0300, Fella wrote:



I wouldn't go so far as to say "mind-boggling" .. When or if a piece of
equipment introduces mind-boggling huge differences to the music, it is
IMHO, somewhat "improper". It almost leads to means taking over the end,
that is, we have audio equipment in order to be able to listen to music,
yes, but with an amp like the BAT, you have music in order to be able to
listen to the luscious, extravagant, grandiose sound of the amp!



You just crucified your own argument. You're supposed to be listening
to the *musical performance*, you cretin!


Now how does my observation about the sound of BAT "crucify" my own
argument, you dumbskull? I stated that I chose *not* to purchase the BAT
since it was exaggerating itself and getting in front of the music.
How the f.ck does that tell you that I am not listening to the musical
performance you idiot!

Were trying the "debating trade" **** that you quote out of context and
think to gain the upper hand?! That is soo cheap.

What the ****! is wrong with you borgs?! Damn, this is just phenomenal!
  #15   Report Post  
Fella
 
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Arny Krueger wrote:



Given how little you actually knew about the BAT before I
corrected you Fella, that is highly doubtful. You didn't
even know its correct price.



You idiot, 5000 was the price it was offered to me. And I *did* mention
the tube sound since the tube stage it was in there.

You google skccientsstist you.. As if I am under some obligation to give
every gritty detail to you if I mention a piece of gear. Before that I
auditioned the PrimaLuna Prologue Two, it had bass all over the place
*and* a bloated midrange to boot. And yeah, I didn't like it too.




The word test has been replaced by vague words and phrases
like "sit down and listen to
the audio gear as you are supposed to",



Yes, with a glass of red wine preferably. That's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO far away
from abx boxes, careful level matching with pink noise and that nauseous
tom putting a gun over your head threatning to pull the trigger if you
can't hear differences.. You dumbdumb borgs, one is called listening to
music, the other is called ABX torture!


  #16   Report Post  
 
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Fella is at it again:

I am saying is sit down and listen to the audio
gear as you are supposed to and trust your ears if they tell you they
hear something. Where is the word "test" there?


If a comparison is blind and level matched, then you are relying on
your ears and them alone, so why the angst? Some people use the word
test, I prefer comparison, since there is only listening for
difference.

The high end industry you speak of, is mostly myth. The knowledge on
building audio equipment is known and has been for some time. That you
did an ABX test that you yourself said did not reveal differences
should have taught you that.

Nobody can force anyone to buy or not buy expensive equipment. The
point of doing blind level matched comparisons is to discover if
there's any reason to spend more money to get better quality sound. As
it turns out, there isn't in most cases. Why that bothers so many
people is strange, since you'd think real music lovers would be pleased
to know that they can listen to their favorite music on equipment that
is within most people's budgets. That way they can afford to buy more
of their favorite music and put the money for improvements where they
really count, on speakers and/or room treatments.

  #17   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"Fella" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:


Given how little you actually knew about the BAT before I
corrected you Fella, that is highly doubtful. You didn't
even know its correct price.


You idiot, 5000 was the price it was offered to me.


You want us to believe that you were seriously considering
this device, but you didn't know its proper retail price?

And I *did* mention the tube sound since the tube stage

it was in there.

A knowlegable person would know that it is window dressing.



  #18   Report Post  
 
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The entity calling himself George Middius wrote:

Who is "NYOB"?

You already know the answer to that question, so why do you ask it?

Who is "torrie****s"? Who is "Geostynch"? They're pseudonyms that
your apologists hide behind. Stop your lying, Mr. ****.


They are people who don't need the extra problems that people like you
are capable of, should they reveal themselves.

Who are you to judge, since you are doing the same thing, hiding
behaind an alias.

  #19   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"Fella" wrote in message


What the F*CK! is wrong with you borgs?!


We're tired of your stupid antics, Fella.

Damn, this is just phenomenal!


You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh?


  #20   Report Post  
George Middius
 
Posts: n/a
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In answer to that question that keeps dogging you, Mickey: No, high-end audio is
not for Bug Eaters.

The high end industry you speak of,[sic] is mostly myth.


That's the spirit, Mickey. If you can pretend it doesn't exist, then how can it
bother you?



  #21   Report Post  
George Middius
 
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The Bug Eater picks at the lice.

Who is "NYOB"?


You already know the answer to that question, so why do you ask it?


If nothing else, because your jerkwad response is an encore demonstration of
your epochal stupidity.

Who is "torrie****s"? Who is "Geostynch"? They're pseudonyms that
your apologists hide behind. Stop your lying, Mr. ****.


They are people


Prove it.

  #22   Report Post  
 
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Eight to five "Ayn" is another swinging dick like Margaret....
However, it's my opinion everyone serious about audio should own some
test equipment. Not a peecee, but some actual test equipment.

  #23   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"George Middius" wrote in
message


In answer to that question that keeps dogging you, Mickey:

No,
high-end audio is not for Bug Eaters.


How childish can you get, Middius?

I'm sure you'll give us some examples real soon now! :-(

The high end industry you speak of,[sic] is mostly myth.


Yet another case of Middius pulling the debating trade
gambit of picking at the details in order to distract
attention from the real issue.

That's the spirit, Mickey. If you can pretend it doesn't
exist, then how can it bother you?


Let's review a few facts like how bogus it is for Middius to
claim expertise or even minimal knowlege about what audio's
high end is all about.


  #24   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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"George Middius" wrote in
message

The Bug Eater picks at the lice.

Who is "NYOB"?


You already know the answer to that question, so why do

you
ask it?


If nothing else, because your jerkwad response is an

encore
demonstration of your epochal stupidity.


ooooOOOHHHHhhhh, Middius has his panties in a bunch.

Who is "torrie****s"? Who is "Geostynch"? They're

pseudonyms
that your apologists hide behind. Stop your lying, Mr.

****.

They are people


Prove it.


Let's start with who you really are, Middius.


  #25   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message
oups.com

Eight to five "Ayn" is another swinging dick like

Margaret....

I wouldn't bet against you with those odds.

However, it's my opinion everyone serious about audio

should
own some test equipment.


Been there, done that.

Not a peecee,


This is just Cal being his usual sweet backward Luddite
self.

but some actual test equipment.


I have a goodly collection of both PC and tranditional audio
test equipment. I get just about everything done with one or
more PCs with apropriate audio interfaces and software, as
well as a couple of audio-competent DVMs, namely a Fluke and
a Protek.




  #26   Report Post  
 
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What does your lashup do an AP Portable One or ATS-1 couldn't do as
well, Arny?

  #27   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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wrote in message
oups.com

What does your lashup do an AP Portable One or ATS-1

couldn't
do as well, Arny?


Not cost me $10,000's.


  #28   Report Post  
 
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I've seen ATS-1's go in the threes on eBay, and a desktop PC with a
first rate sound card is a thousand bucks even today, times two-we're
not an order of magnitude apart. A 339 or a Potomac pair is cheaper,
used.

But a hobbyist can start with a HP200 bench osc (very cheap, eminently
repairable), a dummy load, a HP or Fluke wideband voltmeter and a
simple scope, and add on a HP 334 a little later on for the budget of a
nice PC. I'd then drag home a HP 8903 (I hate Sound Tech...my
prejudice) and a budget PC with a scrounged HPIB card. You don't need
to **** ten grand off the bat-but if you're going to, a AP makes a lot
more sense than a Krell or Mark Levinson pair, resale wise, and, for
me, enjoyment-wise as well. With good test equipment I can build and
verify my homebuilt or repaired scrounged boxes. And **** off high end
saloon salespeople too!

  #29   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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wrote in message
ups.com
I've seen ATS-1's go in the threes on eBay, and a desktop

PC
with a first rate sound card is a thousand bucks even

today,
times two-we're not an order of magnitude apart. A 339 or

a
Potomac pair is cheaper, used.

But a hobbyist can start with a HP200 bench osc (very

cheap,
eminently repairable),


You forgot that the HP200 is an obsolete piece of junk every
day of this millenium.

a dummy load, a HP or Fluke wideband voltmeter and a

simple scope, and add on a HP 334 a little
later on for the budget of a nice PC.


The HP334 is another one of those obsolete pieces that
needs to be sent out to pastre. I have two HP broadband
voltmeters and they stay on the shelf.

I'd then drag home a HP 8903 (I hate Sound Tech...my

prejudice) and a budget PC with a
scrounged HPIB card.


Seems like unecessary cost, size, weight and complexity.

Hey Cal, let us know when you wake up and find out that
we've been in the 21st century for almost 5 years!


  #30   Report Post  
 
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Hey Arny, when you wake up and do your homework, and find out that
Agilent's last box that would replace a HP200 was the HP 8904, but only
with an expensive option that forfeited many capabilities of the
standard set, at a total price on the order of four grand, vis-a-vis
reworking a $25 HP200CD of which there are a half million around and
most still work and the rest easily repairable, but Corporate America
is so ****in' gullible they bought the butchered 8904's anyway, then
you will be smelling the 21st century air, and it doesn't smell too
good does it, Arny???

And the 334 is basically the receive half of a 339, a box still in
high demand.



  #31   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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wrote in message
oups.com

Hey Arny, when you wake up and do your homework, and find

out
that Agilent's last box that would replace a HP200 was the

HP
8904,


As if that was the only viable option.

And the 334 is basically the receive half of a 339, a box
still in high demand.


As if that were the only viable option.


  #32   Report Post  
 
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The entity posting as George Middius said:


In answer to that question that keeps dogging you, Mickey: No, high-end audio is
not for Bug Eaters.




The high end industry you speak of is mostly myth.



That's the spirit, Mickey. If you can pretend it doesn't exist, then how can it
bother you?


That explains why you don't own anything that could be considered high
end. Of course not being a real person, you can't actually own
anything.

  #33   Report Post  
 
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The entity posting as George Middius said:

The Bug Eater picks at the lice.


Thanks for admitting you are a louse.

Who is "NYOB"?
You already know the answer to that question, so why do you ask it?



If nothing else, because your jerkwad response is an encore demonstration of
your epochal stupidity.


I see, it's jerkwad to point out that you asked a question that has
already been answered.
This would make you a world class jerkwad, no?

  #34   Report Post  
Ayn Marx
 
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Arny Krueger wrote:
"Fella" wrote in message


What the F*CK! is wrong with you borgs?!


We're tired of your stupid antics, Fella.

Damn, this is just phenomenal!


You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh?


Please boys, Take your ball back to your own back-yard and play with it
there and leave us at Aus.Hi-Fi to indulge in our own particular form
of insanity.

  #35   Report Post  
Mr.T
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
oups.com
Please **** off back to the Land of The Brave and

Zenophobic.
We have enough nut cases of our own here on Aus.Hi-Fi.


The irony is that we have an Aussie who wants to chase all
the xenophobic Americans out of her sacred little part of
the world. Yes, she wants to chase the foreigners out!


The real irony is that this thread isn't even cross posted to aus.hi-fi!!!
:-)

MrT.




  #36   Report Post  
Mr.T
 
Posts: n/a
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wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen ATS-1's go in the threes on eBay, and a desktop PC with a
first rate sound card is a thousand bucks even today, times two-we're
not an order of magnitude apart.


So why not compare to a S/H PC? A couple of hundred for a PC and a couple of
hundred for a pro soundcard, will do the job.
Software is another matter though, but there is reasonable freeware
available, adequate for many people.

The beauty of the PC option is that it can do the same job as a number of
test instruments, plus automatic data acquisition, plus data analysis, plus
data storage and presentation etc.

Yes dedicated instruments have their benefits, but even multi million dollar
test labs are full of PC's as well, and have been for decades.

MrT.


  #37   Report Post  
Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
oups.com...


Arny Krueger wrote:
"Fella" wrote in message


What the F*CK! is wrong with you borgs?!


We're tired of your stupid antics, Fella.

Damn, this is just phenomenal!


You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh?


Please boys, Take your ball back to your own back-yard and play with it
there and leave us at Aus.Hi-Fi to indulge in our own particular form
of insanity.

Ayn ,but we know the Americans like to play in everyones backyard but their
own (with the exception of my cousins ,who are all jolly nice folk.
Gordon


  #38   Report Post  
Mr.T
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Please boys, Take your ball back to your own back-yard and play with it
there and leave us at Aus.Hi-Fi to indulge in our own particular form
of insanity.

Ayn ,but we know the Americans like to play in everyones backyard but

their
own (with the exception of my cousins ,who are all jolly nice folk.


Since this is cross posted to 3 non Australian news groups, it's hardly fair
to blame them for Ayn's Xenophobia.

MrT.


  #39   Report Post  
Stewart Pinkerton
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:39:34 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:21:54 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

Pity that, since it sounds just the same as *well designed* high end
gear such as you can buy from Meridian or Krell.


Said the Krell owner.


Indeed - but not many modern speakers are as hard to drive as my
Apogee Duetta Sigs.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
  #40   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:28:22 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:39:34 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:21:54 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

Pity that, since it sounds just the same as *well designed* high end
gear such as you can buy from Meridian or Krell.


Said the Krell owner.


Indeed - but not many modern speakers are as hard to drive as my
Apogee Duetta Sigs.


Don't you know that Arnold claims that $200 commercial amps from
companies like Behringer don't have any problems delivering massive
amounts of power to almost any load?
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