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#1
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jensen,sherwood,profile
are as good as any amps under $250.....
but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm. those high priced amps ya paying for advertising. you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed..... dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol |
#2
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"bob wald" wrote in message ... dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol Well I look at my local retailers, and none of them sell these brands. Also, their reputation is that they're a cheaper, and are of a "lesser quality" (I use that term loosely). I tend to stick with the top 15 brands, however I do like some more unknown higher quality stuff like Brax/Helix. |
#3
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youve never heard of ''jvc''-''soundstream''???
for this i am amazed....... sherwood may not still be in car audio. but they were in the top 3ever.with thier 'xat' line. these are more fair priced as to my point. you dont have to spend $1 or over a rms watt. |
#4
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You keep saying the same things over and over. Don't you have new material
to troll with? "bob wald" wrote in message ... are as good as any amps under $250..... but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm. those high priced amps ya paying for advertising. you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed..... dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol |
#5
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what??? i just added jvc.they just came out with thier amps. duh.
how could i say them before? geez i replaced boss with jvc. i did have boss in my super 5 lineup. |
#6
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bob wald wrote:
are as good as any amps under $250..... but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm. those high priced amps ya paying for advertising. you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed..... dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol WOW, someone has a bad idea of good amps, that or a bad ear for music. Sure, if you want quick SPL/Watts for cheap these brands are great. But the distortion factor is off the wall! Try 10% THD at 100W on a Profile amp. I know, me and a buddy chipped in to buy a "300W" Amp, about 2.5 years ago, just to see how horrible it was (I wasted like $20). We took it to our local dealer (Q&C Audio), who has a ton of test equiptment for the audio field (not just car audio) and hooked it up to a returned Xtant subwoofer and then later to a set of Alpine 6.5". It happens that they have a butt load of equiptment that connects to their laptop to measure things such as disortion, efficiency ratio (power drawn/power output to speaker(s) ), SPL meter, ad nauseum. Well, let's say that this thing sucked. I'd heard that Profile's amps sucked, but had never heard one in use. When we cranked it to put out 100 watts, the distortion meter read 10% THD, that's HORRIBLE! Oh, and for Sherwood, I know from Q&C that they're bad. And Boss sucks just as much. They may be cheap and put out power, but they can't run with companies such as Alpine, Audiobahn (which isn't great but it's better than the cheap ones), Crossfire, Xtant, and Orion. The money you put in and what you get, $1 for 1W RMS is very good retail. $.10 for 1W RMS, unless wholesale/used/ebayed is very bad. And JVC's new amps are good. |
#7
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WOW, someone has a bad idea of good amps, that or a bad ear for music.
Sure, if you want quick SPL/Watts for cheap these brands are great. But the distortion factor is off the wall! Try 10% THD at 100W on a Profile amp. If it was a 75w amp, then yeah, that's a distortion number that one would expect. Otherwise, care to cite where you arrived at that number? Even LA Sound (either they're the same company as Profile, or they're a similar "cheap" company - certainly not having a better reputation) amps only max out at about .05% THD prior to the onset of clipping (http://www.carsound.com/review_archi.../s835chts.html). I know, me and a buddy chipped in to buy a "300W" Amp, about 2.5 years ago, just to see how horrible it was (I wasted like $20). We took it to our local dealer (Q&C Audio), who has a ton of test equiptment for the audio field (not just car audio) and hooked it up to a returned Xtant subwoofer and then later to a set of Alpine 6.5". It happens that they have a butt load of equiptment that connects to their laptop to measure things such as disortion, efficiency ratio (power drawn/power output to speaker(s) ), SPL meter, ad nauseum. Well, let's say that this thing sucked. I'd heard that Profile's amps sucked, but had never heard one in use. When we cranked it to put out 100 watts, the distortion meter read 10% THD, that's HORRIBLE! I'd question their methodology then. I've personally benched dozens of car amps (and just bought a new 50A power supply on ebay to bench a few others I've got lying around), and have never come across one that exhibits that kind of distortion without clipping the amp. That includes Jensen, Alphasonik, Pyramid, Sony, and other brand names that are typically "frowned upon". However, I had one that gave a high measurement on a distortion meter - when I took a closer look, it turned out that there was a loose RCA connection. I had another one that also gave me high THD numbers at high output levels but prior to the onset of clipping (don't remember which amp) - turns out an input stage current source transistor was behaving erratically, probably causing the VA stage to be current starved. Replacing the transistor eliminated the problem. So I'd suggest that there may have been a problem with that particular amp. Oh, and for Sherwood, I know from Q&C that they're bad. Years ago they had a pretty solid reputation. I actually installed a couple of their blue ones (~10 yrs ago) if I recall. They were cheap but performed well. And Boss sucks just as much. They may be cheap and put out power, but they can't run with companies such as Alpine, Audiobahn (which isn't great but it's better than the cheap ones), Crossfire, Xtant, and Orion. The money you put in and what you get, $1 for 1W RMS is very good retail. $.10 for 1W RMS, unless wholesale/used/ebayed is very bad. And JVC's new amps are good. I don't agree with Bob's assertion that these 3 or 4 manufacturers are the best and everything is crap. But I think you're making the same mistake he is when you insist that these amps "suck". Anyway, if you're friendly with the guys at Q&C, it might be worthwhile to ask them to come on here and explain the kinds of tests they've performed on these amps and what it is about them specifically that they feel is inadequate. |
#8
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SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id
put up againt any under $400.....anytime..... it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know nothing about car audio. |
#9
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It would all depend on what you were comparing.
"bob wald" wrote in message ... SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id put up againt any under $400.....anytime..... it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know nothing about car audio. |
#10
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I never said that I havnt heard of them, I just said that any Car Audio
retailer around here doesn't sell any of the mentioned gear. JVC would be the only brand I might touch, but only the head units. I'm by far not old enough to recall Sherwood, however I have heard of them. I even had a dealer (from a different location) who sold Boss tell me to stay away from it. Now I ask you if you have heard of the "high end" brands. Focal, Audison, Hertz, Brax, CDT, etc. I am also curious to know what YOU think is high end gear. "bob wald" wrote in message ... youve never heard of ''jvc''-''soundstream''??? for this i am amazed....... sherwood may not still be in car audio. but they were in the top 3ever.with thier 'xat' line. these are more fair priced as to my point. you dont have to spend $1 or over a rms watt. |
#11
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yes ive heard of most of the so called high end or high priced gear.....
specs are different. i'm sure if you play those brands loud for hours theyll act like my list of brands and your brands might sound different but not so much better.i think. cept your brands are twice as much to fix i bet than my brands. Sherwood high priced models i think they stopped making yrs ago. cost too much to sell i think.the xat line was thier best. i bought one but i was young then. today i'd never spend over $300 on 1 amp. i buy amps alot around $119.discounted from $149. i usually have 3-4 amps in 1 system.if 1 breaks i can do a simple rewire and still have a good system.while i repair the other. if you have 1 or 2 amps and lose 1 amp. youre done until its fixxed. |
#12
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well that sherwood back in 93' i did pay $1 awatt.but amps were much
more expensive in those days. in 93' $1 a rms was normal. there were afew over that.alphasonik,carver,mctosh, |
#13
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bob wald wrote:
SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id put up againt any under $400.....anytime..... it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know nothing about car audio. I know what I'm about to post is a bit biased, but then again, I find it to be fairly true. http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t11 Yes, Sherwood was good a few years ago, but recently their quality has gone downhill. And as for Q&C I don't know if they'd be willing to come on here, but I will ask them. And yes I do know alot about car audio. I know enough to have installed 34 systems in the past 3 years, most with high-end equiptment, rarely with low-end junk. Look, you can't get a Profile Amp to behave like an equally spec.ed Alpine or Eaton or Harrison Labs Amp, period. The components that make up these amps are cheap, the circuitry is not of good quality (in fact their power supplies on their "high powered" amps could use a make-over), and you ARE paying for advertising with the brands that you have listed. Don't think that the brands you prefer are anybetter than Pyle or Pyramid or Kraco. Plain and simple they're not. And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into 2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping. The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal, Alpine, and Zapco. Then we tested it at our Vo-Tech (BTW, the school funded some of this, not all of it in the back out a friends car, and let's just say we got the cops called on us. We didn't get in any trouble though, told 'em it was for a project and they just told us to never do it again. I'm done with this conversation. When you decide that those brands you have choosen are horrible, come talk to me. But, until then, I not going to argue with you. |
#14
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let me see i started car audio 15yrs ago.
but the yrs or number of car stereos really dont mean you know about brands you never used. the only thing id say about my choices is jensen, you haveto pick the good models.some jensens are very plain.not too good. sherwoods are mostly very good overall.afew sherwoods are #1. those new jvc amps i'm dieing to try. ill be moving to jvc from jensen. i think its a move up.i guess about even with profile. i took a couple of cheap profiles i was using out.i kept them in 5yrs they sounded so good. never 1 problem. i figured id rather replace them while they worked so i could sell them.instead of after they broke. 5yrs they must be getting close. |
#15
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I know what I'm about to post is a bit biased, but then again, I find it
to be fairly true. http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t11 It's extremely biased, and not really worth the html it's written on. Many of the brands listed in the "recommended" category are ambiguous. Which Morel company are they referring to? Which series of Kenwood speakers land on the "bad" list? All of them? What about some of the innovative slimline designs they produced a couple years ago? What about their excelon stuff? A lot of people like that stuff. And I personally wouldn't own the equipment by several of the brands listed in that "recommended" category - not because I think they're bad products, but because they don't have what I personally like. Either the onboard crossovers on the amplifiers are insufficient for my needs, the speakers aren't tonally acceptable for my ears, etc. For example, I don't typically like MB Quart speakers (haven't heard their newest incarnation though). On the other hand, I've got a pair of Rockford tweeters that are about 7 years old sitting in my closet that are among the best I've ever heard. Rockford only made the "moderate" list. But I'd take those tweeters any day of the week over the MorelUSA tweeters I own, even though Morel made the "recommended" list (I'm assuming they're talking about Morel USA and not the Israeli company with the same name). Others may have the opposite opinion about those speakers. In the very same year that Rockford made those tweeters I like (the Punch series), they also made a more expensive Power series tweeter that I thought were godawful. And where's Polk on the list? Their older dB series (~7 yrs ago?) and successor DX series (~4 years ago?) were terrific speakers, IMO. Their MM series (not momo; mobile monitor) coaxials were among my favorites. But even their best subs couldn't handle much power and their last line of speakers wasn't so hot. So what list do you put a company like that on? Why does a company like Audiotec-Fischer, maker of Brax and Helix, get a chance to be in two different categories, but a company like Autotek who makes one very expensive and one very cheap line of amplifiers doesn't? Those are just some of many problems with constructing a list like that. Yes, Sherwood was good a few years ago, but recently their quality has gone downhill. And as for Q&C I don't know if they'd be willing to come on here, but I will ask them. Thanks. It's always good to have new viewpoints in this newsgroup, even if they don't see eye to eye. And yes I do know alot about car audio. I know enough to have installed 34 systems in the past 3 years, most with high-end equiptment, rarely with low-end junk. Look, you can't get a Profile Amp to behave like an equally spec.ed Alpine or Eaton or Harrison Labs Amp, period. The components that make up these amps are cheap, the circuitry is not of good quality (in fact their power supplies on their "high powered" amps could use a make-over), and you ARE paying for advertising with the brands that you have listed. Don't think that the brands you prefer are anybetter than Pyle or Pyramid or Kraco. Plain and simple they're not. I'd like to hear you elaborate a bit about the "cheap" components and poor circuitry. What components exactly are cheap? And what's wrong with cheap components if they get the job done? In some of my own designs, I've used "cheap" components but have attempted to design the circuits to compensate for the cheapness. Low voltage transistors? Eh, use more cascode circuits. Poor beta matching? Rely more on negative feedback -centric circuits and transconductance to try to make beta values irrelevant. In my experience, and perhaps some folks will disagree, you can get away with a lot of "shortcuts" when designing and constructing an amplifier. While you may get lower THD numbers by incorporating, say, 20 transistors in an input stage of a single channel, is it really a better design than the 5 transistor version? You can build an input stage that consists of nothing more than a current source (1 transistor), differential amplifier (2 transistors), and current mirror (2 transistors) and get THD and noise numbers well below audible threshold. The only place where I wouldn't skimp on circuitry is with protection stages. But these are low cost components. A couple resistors, two small BJTs, and a couple diodes will give you a more than capable output protection. I don't know for sure that these "bad" companies are implementing these circuits (though I suspect they are if they've gone through the trouble of mounting protection LEDs - which probably costs more than the protection circuitry itself), but this doesn't have much to do with the sonic characteristics of the amplifier. Frankly, I think there are very few brands of amplifiers out there that will produce an audible level of distortion when not overdriven. And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into 2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping. The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal, Alpine, and Zapco. $550?? Where on earth were you buying your parts??? |
#16
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MZ wrote:
And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into 2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping. The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal, Alpine, and Zapco. $550?? Where on earth were you buying your parts??? It's a government owned school. They don't buy things the cheap way. Nuff said. It's not like I choose where to buy them. I, at the time, was designing the thermal protection, overload protection, and crossover schemes. At the time I just gave them a list of parts that I wanted/needed (some I didn't use, and took home ) |