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bob wald
 
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Default jensen,sherwood,profile

are as good as any amps under $250.....
but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm.
those high priced amps ya paying for advertising.
you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed.....
dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol

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Kirby
 
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"bob wald" wrote in message
...

dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol


Well I look at my local retailers, and none of them sell these brands. Also,
their reputation is that they're a cheaper, and are of a "lesser quality" (I
use that term loosely). I tend to stick with the top 15 brands, however I do
like some more unknown higher quality stuff like Brax/Helix.


  #3   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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youve never heard of ''jvc''-''soundstream''???
for this i am amazed.......
sherwood may not still be in car audio.
but they were in the top 3ever.with thier 'xat' line.
these are more fair priced as to my point.
you dont have to spend $1 or over a rms watt.

  #4   Report Post  
MZ
 
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You keep saying the same things over and over. Don't you have new material
to troll with?

"bob wald" wrote in message
...
are as good as any amps under $250.....
but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm.
those high priced amps ya paying for advertising.
you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed.....
dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol



  #5   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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what??? i just added jvc.they just came out with thier amps. duh.
how could i say them before? geez
i replaced boss with jvc. i did have boss in my super 5 lineup.



  #6   Report Post  
Bkinsey
 
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bob wald wrote:
are as good as any amps under $250.....
but i am interested in jvc new amp line and soundstearm.
those high priced amps ya paying for advertising.
you can find all the power you need in those 5 amp brands listed.....
dont waste ya time on the other 15popular brands.lol


WOW, someone has a bad idea of good amps, that or a bad ear for music.
Sure, if you want quick SPL/Watts for cheap these brands are great. But
the distortion factor is off the wall! Try 10% THD at 100W on a Profile
amp. I know, me and a buddy chipped in to buy a "300W" Amp, about 2.5
years ago, just to see how horrible it was (I wasted like $20).

We took it to our local dealer (Q&C Audio), who has a ton of test
equiptment for the audio field (not just car audio) and hooked it up to
a returned Xtant subwoofer and then later to a set of Alpine 6.5". It
happens that they have a butt load of equiptment that connects to their
laptop to measure things such as disortion, efficiency ratio (power
drawn/power output to speaker(s) ), SPL meter, ad nauseum. Well, let's
say that this thing sucked. I'd heard that Profile's amps sucked, but
had never heard one in use. When we cranked it to put out 100 watts, the
distortion meter read 10% THD, that's HORRIBLE!

Oh, and for Sherwood, I know from Q&C that they're bad. And Boss sucks
just as much. They may be cheap and put out power, but they can't run
with companies such as Alpine, Audiobahn (which isn't great but it's
better than the cheap ones), Crossfire, Xtant, and Orion.

The money you put in and what you get, $1 for 1W RMS is very good
retail. $.10 for 1W RMS, unless wholesale/used/ebayed is very bad.

And JVC's new amps are good.
  #7   Report Post  
MZ
 
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WOW, someone has a bad idea of good amps, that or a bad ear for music.
Sure, if you want quick SPL/Watts for cheap these brands are great. But
the distortion factor is off the wall! Try 10% THD at 100W on a Profile
amp.


If it was a 75w amp, then yeah, that's a distortion number that one would
expect. Otherwise, care to cite where you arrived at that number? Even LA
Sound (either they're the same company as Profile, or they're a similar
"cheap" company - certainly not having a better reputation) amps only max
out at about .05% THD prior to the onset of clipping
(http://www.carsound.com/review_archi.../s835chts.html).

I know, me and a buddy chipped in to buy a "300W" Amp, about 2.5 years
ago, just to see how horrible it was (I wasted like $20).

We took it to our local dealer (Q&C Audio), who has a ton of test
equiptment for the audio field (not just car audio) and hooked it up to a
returned Xtant subwoofer and then later to a set of Alpine 6.5". It
happens that they have a butt load of equiptment that connects to their
laptop to measure things such as disortion, efficiency ratio (power
drawn/power output to speaker(s) ), SPL meter, ad nauseum. Well, let's say
that this thing sucked. I'd heard that Profile's amps sucked, but had
never heard one in use. When we cranked it to put out 100 watts, the
distortion meter read 10% THD, that's HORRIBLE!


I'd question their methodology then. I've personally benched dozens of car
amps (and just bought a new 50A power supply on ebay to bench a few others
I've got lying around), and have never come across one that exhibits that
kind of distortion without clipping the amp. That includes Jensen,
Alphasonik, Pyramid, Sony, and other brand names that are typically "frowned
upon". However, I had one that gave a high measurement on a distortion
meter - when I took a closer look, it turned out that there was a loose RCA
connection. I had another one that also gave me high THD numbers at high
output levels but prior to the onset of clipping (don't remember which
amp) - turns out an input stage current source transistor was behaving
erratically, probably causing the VA stage to be current starved. Replacing
the transistor eliminated the problem. So I'd suggest that there may have
been a problem with that particular amp.


Oh, and for Sherwood, I know from Q&C that they're bad.


Years ago they had a pretty solid reputation. I actually installed a couple
of their blue ones (~10 yrs ago) if I recall. They were cheap but performed
well.

And Boss sucks just as much. They may be cheap and put out power, but they
can't run with companies such as Alpine, Audiobahn (which isn't great but
it's better than the cheap ones), Crossfire, Xtant, and Orion.

The money you put in and what you get, $1 for 1W RMS is very good retail.
$.10 for 1W RMS, unless wholesale/used/ebayed is very bad.

And JVC's new amps are good.


I don't agree with Bob's assertion that these 3 or 4 manufacturers are the
best and everything is crap. But I think you're making the same mistake he
is when you insist that these amps "suck". Anyway, if you're friendly with
the guys at Q&C, it might be worthwhile to ask them to come on here and
explain the kinds of tests they've performed on these amps and what it is
about them specifically that they feel is inadequate.


  #8   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id
put up againt any under $400.....anytime.....
it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know
nothing about car audio.

  #9   Report Post  
Kirby
 
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It would all depend on what you were comparing.


"bob wald" wrote in message
...
SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id
put up againt any under $400.....anytime.....
it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know
nothing about car audio.



  #10   Report Post  
Kirby
 
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I never said that I havnt heard of them, I just said that any Car Audio
retailer around here doesn't sell any of the mentioned gear. JVC would be
the only brand I might touch, but only the head units. I'm by far not old
enough to recall Sherwood, however I have heard of them. I even had a dealer
(from a different location) who sold Boss tell me to stay away from it. Now
I ask you if you have heard of the "high end" brands. Focal, Audison, Hertz,
Brax, CDT, etc. I am also curious to know what YOU think is high end gear.


"bob wald" wrote in message
...
youve never heard of ''jvc''-''soundstream''???
for this i am amazed.......
sherwood may not still be in car audio.
but they were in the top 3ever.with thier 'xat' line.
these are more fair priced as to my point.
you dont have to spend $1 or over a rms watt.





  #11   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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yes ive heard of most of the so called high end or high priced gear.....
specs are different. i'm sure if you play those brands loud for hours
theyll act like my list of brands and your brands might sound different
but not so much better.i think.
cept your brands are twice as much to fix i bet than my brands.
Sherwood high priced models i think they stopped making yrs ago. cost
too much to sell i think.the xat line was thier best. i bought one but i
was young then. today i'd never spend over $300 on 1 amp. i buy amps
alot around $119.discounted from $149. i usually have 3-4 amps in 1
system.if 1 breaks i can do a simple rewire and still have a good
system.while i repair the other. if you have 1 or 2 amps and lose 1
amp. youre done until its fixxed.

  #12   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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well that sherwood back in 93' i did pay $1 awatt.but amps were much
more expensive in those days.
in 93' $1 a rms was normal. there were afew over
that.alphasonik,carver,mctosh,

  #13   Report Post  
Bkinsey
 
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bob wald wrote:
SHERwood xat-3000. the best amp i ever saw..bought it 12 yrs ago....id
put up againt any under $400.....anytime.....
it cost me $335 back then. 1ohm stable. 85rmsx4, 4ohm. i see you know
nothing about car audio.


I know what I'm about to post is a bit biased, but then again, I find it
to be fairly true. http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t11

Yes, Sherwood was good a few years ago, but recently their quality has
gone downhill.

And as for Q&C I don't know if they'd be willing to come on here, but I
will ask them.

And yes I do know alot about car audio. I know enough to have installed
34 systems in the past 3 years, most with high-end equiptment, rarely
with low-end junk.

Look, you can't get a Profile Amp to behave like an equally spec.ed
Alpine or Eaton or Harrison Labs Amp, period. The components that make
up these amps are cheap, the circuitry is not of good quality (in fact
their power supplies on their "high powered" amps could use a
make-over), and you ARE paying for advertising with the brands that you
have listed. Don't think that the brands you prefer are anybetter than
Pyle or Pyramid or Kraco. Plain and simple they're not.

And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile
land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time
learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one
class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into
2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping.
The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal,
Alpine, and Zapco.

Then we tested it at our Vo-Tech (BTW, the school funded some of this,
not all of it in the back out a friends car, and let's just say we got
the cops called on us. We didn't get in any trouble though, told 'em it
was for a project and they just told us to never do it again.

I'm done with this conversation. When you decide that those brands you
have choosen are horrible, come talk to me. But, until then, I not going
to argue with you.
  #14   Report Post  
bob wald
 
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let me see i started car audio 15yrs ago.
but the yrs or number of car stereos really dont mean you know about
brands you never used.
the only thing id say about my choices is jensen, you haveto pick the
good models.some jensens are very plain.not too good.
sherwoods are mostly very good overall.afew sherwoods are #1.
those new jvc amps i'm dieing to try.
ill be moving to jvc from jensen. i think its a move up.i guess about
even with profile.
i took a couple of cheap profiles i was using out.i kept them in 5yrs
they sounded so good.
never 1 problem. i figured id rather replace them while they worked so i
could sell them.instead of after they broke.
5yrs they must be getting close.



  #15   Report Post  
MZ
 
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I know what I'm about to post is a bit biased, but then again, I find it
to be fairly true. http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t11


It's extremely biased, and not really worth the html it's written on. Many
of the brands listed in the "recommended" category are ambiguous. Which
Morel company are they referring to? Which series of Kenwood speakers land
on the "bad" list? All of them? What about some of the innovative slimline
designs they produced a couple years ago? What about their excelon stuff?
A lot of people like that stuff. And I personally wouldn't own the
equipment by several of the brands listed in that "recommended" category -
not because I think they're bad products, but because they don't have what I
personally like. Either the onboard crossovers on the amplifiers are
insufficient for my needs, the speakers aren't tonally acceptable for my
ears, etc.

For example, I don't typically like MB Quart speakers (haven't heard their
newest incarnation though). On the other hand, I've got a pair of Rockford
tweeters that are about 7 years old sitting in my closet that are among the
best I've ever heard. Rockford only made the "moderate" list. But I'd take
those tweeters any day of the week over the MorelUSA tweeters I own, even
though Morel made the "recommended" list (I'm assuming they're talking about
Morel USA and not the Israeli company with the same name). Others may have
the opposite opinion about those speakers. In the very same year that
Rockford made those tweeters I like (the Punch series), they also made a
more expensive Power series tweeter that I thought were godawful. And
where's Polk on the list? Their older dB series (~7 yrs ago?) and successor
DX series (~4 years ago?) were terrific speakers, IMO. Their MM series
(not momo; mobile monitor) coaxials were among my favorites. But even
their best subs couldn't handle much power and their last line of speakers
wasn't so hot. So what list do you put a company like that on? Why does a
company like Audiotec-Fischer, maker of Brax and Helix, get a chance to be
in two different categories, but a company like Autotek who makes one very
expensive and one very cheap line of amplifiers doesn't? Those are just
some of many problems with constructing a list like that.


Yes, Sherwood was good a few years ago, but recently their quality has
gone downhill.

And as for Q&C I don't know if they'd be willing to come on here, but I
will ask them.


Thanks. It's always good to have new viewpoints in this newsgroup, even if
they don't see eye to eye.


And yes I do know alot about car audio. I know enough to have installed
34 systems in the past 3 years, most with high-end equiptment, rarely
with low-end junk.

Look, you can't get a Profile Amp to behave like an equally spec.ed
Alpine or Eaton or Harrison Labs Amp, period. The components that make
up these amps are cheap, the circuitry is not of good quality (in fact
their power supplies on their "high powered" amps could use a
make-over), and you ARE paying for advertising with the brands that you
have listed. Don't think that the brands you prefer are anybetter than
Pyle or Pyramid or Kraco. Plain and simple they're not.


I'd like to hear you elaborate a bit about the "cheap" components and poor
circuitry. What components exactly are cheap? And what's wrong with cheap
components if they get the job done? In some of my own designs, I've used
"cheap" components but have attempted to design the circuits to compensate
for the cheapness. Low voltage transistors? Eh, use more cascode circuits.
Poor beta matching? Rely more on negative feedback -centric circuits and
transconductance to try to make beta values irrelevant. In my experience,
and perhaps some folks will disagree, you can get away with a lot of
"shortcuts" when designing and constructing an amplifier. While you may get
lower THD numbers by incorporating, say, 20 transistors in an input stage of
a single channel, is it really a better design than the 5 transistor
version? You can build an input stage that consists of nothing more than a
current source (1 transistor), differential amplifier (2 transistors), and
current mirror (2 transistors) and get THD and noise numbers well below
audible threshold.

The only place where I wouldn't skimp on circuitry is with protection
stages. But these are low cost components. A couple resistors, two small
BJTs, and a couple diodes will give you a more than capable output
protection. I don't know for sure that these "bad" companies are
implementing these circuits (though I suspect they are if they've gone
through the trouble of mounting protection LEDs - which probably costs more
than the protection circuitry itself), but this doesn't have much to do with
the sonic characteristics of the amplifier. Frankly, I think there are very
few brands of amplifiers out there that will produce an audible level of
distortion when not overdriven.



And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile
land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time
learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one
class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into
2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping.
The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal,
Alpine, and Zapco.


$550?? Where on earth were you buying your parts???




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Bkinsey
 
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MZ wrote:
And I know more than 3 years in car audio, I spent 2 years in Audiophile
land before that. Also, in the past 1.5 years I've been spending time
learning about building electronic components & systems. In fact, in one
class we built a 12VDC amplifier that put out 400W (clean) RMS into
2ohms x 3 channels. But this cost us around $550 in parts and shipping.
The circuitry was based on these name brand amps: Helix, BA, Crystal,
Alpine, and Zapco.



$550?? Where on earth were you buying your parts???



It's a government owned school. They don't buy things the cheap way.
Nuff said. It's not like I choose where to buy them. I, at the time, was
designing the thermal protection, overload protection, and crossover
schemes. At the time I just gave them a list of parts that I
wanted/needed (some I didn't use, and took home )
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