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p-nut p-nut is offline
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Default MB Quart DKE116

I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the DKE116's
didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut
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ChrisB ChrisB is offline
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Default MB Quart DKE116

p-nut wrote:
I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the DKE116's
didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut


Just don't expect the new ones to sound as good as the old school MB
Quart because the new ones.... well... they suck compared to the old ones!
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p-nut p-nut is offline
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Default MB Quart DKE116

ChrisB blurted out in rec.audio.car:

p-nut wrote:
I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the DKE116's
didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut


Just don't expect the new ones to sound as good as the old school MB
Quart because the new ones.... well... they suck compared to the old ones!


Really?
That sucks.
What happened to them?
My QM160s have both tweeters blown and one of the speakers has a small tear.
They still sound pretty good, just don't have any high end coming from them.

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ChrisB ChrisB is offline
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Posts: 81
Default MB Quart DKE116

p-nut wrote:
ChrisB blurted out in rec.audio.car:

p-nut wrote:
I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the DKE116's
didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut

Just don't expect the new ones to sound as good as the old school MB
Quart because the new ones.... well... they suck compared to the old ones!


Really?
That sucks.
What happened to them?
My QM160s have both tweeters blown and one of the speakers has a small tear.
They still sound pretty good, just don't have any high end coming from them.


Oh let's see.... could it be that MAXXSONICS purchased the MB Quart name
and the speakers that they farm out to China/Korea to produce are no
where near the quality of the MB Quart Germany speakers that were some
of the best comps that money could buy in the 90s?

Don't worry though, they aren't the only brand that now sucks. Orion
isn't anywhere near the same product it once was and neither is
HiFonics. I like how these companies purchase the once great names just
to ride the once great name for the almighty dollar while at the same
time providing a crappy product! The icing on the cake was when I saw a
DEI Produced Orion HCCA amplifier that was Class freaking D. HCCA used
to stand for High Current Class A and now they are badging their
overseas crap with the same name as the once great Orion red
amplifiers.... Sad!

Sorry for ranting, but it ****es me off when I see names of once great
products that are not even 1/2 as good as the original!

-Chris
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p-nut p-nut is offline
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Default MB Quart DKE116

ChrisB blurted out in rec.audio.car:

p-nut wrote:
ChrisB blurted out in rec.audio.car:

p-nut wrote:
I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the
DKE116's didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut
Just don't expect the new ones to sound as good as the old school MB
Quart because the new ones.... well... they suck compared to the old
ones!


Really?
That sucks.
What happened to them?
My QM160s have both tweeters blown and one of the speakers has a small
tear. They still sound pretty good, just don't have any high end coming
from them.


Oh let's see.... could it be that MAXXSONICS purchased the MB Quart name
and the speakers that they farm out to China/Korea to produce are no
where near the quality of the MB Quart Germany speakers that were some
of the best comps that money could buy in the 90s?

Don't worry though, they aren't the only brand that now sucks. Orion
isn't anywhere near the same product it once was and neither is
HiFonics. I like how these companies purchase the once great names just
to ride the once great name for the almighty dollar while at the same
time providing a crappy product! The icing on the cake was when I saw a
DEI Produced Orion HCCA amplifier that was Class freaking D. HCCA used
to stand for High Current Class A and now they are badging their
overseas crap with the same name as the once great Orion red
amplifiers.... Sad!

Sorry for ranting, but it ****es me off when I see names of once great
products that are not even 1/2 as good as the original!

-Chris


Yeah, I knew that about Orion ( I still have an original redline 250) but
didn't know that about MBQ. Thanks for the info and the rant is appreciated.



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John Durbin John Durbin is offline
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Default MB Quart DKE116

While it's always entertaining to hear people rant about things they
don't really understand, I felt compelled to correct at least ONE thing
Chris blew in this rant:

HCCA has nothing to do with Class A. HCCA amps were never Class A. They
were all Class AB high current/low impedance stable designs.

HCCA actually stands for High Current Competition Amplifier (i.e.
"cheater amp"). Read the history of SPL competition and you'll
understand why these amps even exist.

Might as well throw a bucket of reality on the rest of this rant while
I'm at it:

The class D models we started shipping a few years ago are in fact High
Current Competiton Amplifiers. They deliver high current output into 1
ohm loads, compared to a typical 4 ohm load that class AB amps are
generally designed for.

When was the last time you saw people competing with a van full of
"cheater amps"? Low-impedance class D (and the related variants) is the
state of the art, in the 21st century anyway.

Those cheatre amp days are long gone. Lanzar Opti's, HCCA's, other 1/4
0hm stable amps serve no useful purpose other than to drain batteries.
It's all about getting the most current to the load efficiently, and in
a power constrained environment of a vehicle, class D is simply a better
solution. Orion would likely have built monstrous class D amps back then
if they'd known how to.

In fact, Orion Industries was building big amps that used bipolar power
supplies. Today we know that this is a horrible design choice;
conventional transistors don't like switching that fast and are nowhere
near as well-suited for use in a switching power supply as a typical
MOSFET. They go bang a lot more often than MOSFET's used in the same
application, Anyone need some spare 2N6488/2N6490's? That's why none of
the later HCCA or XTR amps were built that way.

The fact that the original "bulletproof" red HCCA amps were as reliable
as they were is a real testament to the quality of components used,
consistency of assembly, and massive over-building in terms of
transistor count. These designs required that. But by the end of the
HCCA design history under previous management, they were simply not
reliable. The G5 series - esp. the big ones - were flamethrowers. Boards
caught fire, the return rate was better tnah 50% in some cases. Orion
had stopped producing the two largest models by the time we acquired ADST.

Also, Orion themselves introduced class D under the previous ownership
(ADST days, pre-DEI). The XTR PRO amps are class D, and were in
production in 2001 when DEI bought ADST. They were also pretty scary,
you can launch the power supply of an XTR PRO 1000 amp in a split second
if you hook up power the wrong way.

That's why the 2003 amp lineup that was authored in Phoenix had no red
amps and made the transition to a better class D design for the sub amps
together with new AB models all under shared Orion branding, which also
eliminated the XTR PRO and HCCA series names. They knew the brand needed
more reliable product in order to survive and were simplifying the
lineup in the process, as well as distancing themselves from the
horrible reliability of the last generation of HCCA and XTR PRO amps. In
retrospect, the new product delivered what it was intended to, but I'm
not sure dropping those names was the right choice.

We simply continued that direction with the current generation of class
D amps, but brought back the HCCA series designation. You can take
exception to the use of the HCCA name if you want, but in fact they are
the logical extension of the HCCA legacy into this century, and the amps
themslves are hugely better than the XTR PRO and the red G5-series HCCA
class AB amps they replaced in the lineup. If we had painted them red,
would you understand the lineage better?

Yeah, the "good old days" rocked! Where's the excitement if you can't
count on setting fire to an amp regularly?

But, go ahead and live in the past sharing space with ghosts and
legends, if it makes you feel good

JD

P.S. Stay tuned for 2009, the Orion legacy is far from dead!


ChrisB wrote:
p-nut wrote:

ChrisB blurted out in rec.audio.car:

p-nut wrote:

I just bought a set of DKE116 to replace my QM160's.
My 160 have a nice set of x-overs that they came with but the
DKE116's didn't.
I can't find anythign on whether I have to buy them seperate or what.
The DKe's are a new "Discus" technology so I don't know.
If anyone has any info could you please post?

Thanks,
p~nut

Just don't expect the new ones to sound as good as the old school MB
Quart because the new ones.... well... they suck compared to the old
ones!



Really?
That sucks.
What happened to them?
My QM160s have both tweeters blown and one of the speakers has a small
tear.
They still sound pretty good, just don't have any high end coming from
them.


Oh let's see.... could it be that MAXXSONICS purchased the MB Quart name
and the speakers that they farm out to China/Korea to produce are no
where near the quality of the MB Quart Germany speakers that were some
of the best comps that money could buy in the 90s?

Don't worry though, they aren't the only brand that now sucks. Orion
isn't anywhere near the same product it once was and neither is
HiFonics. I like how these companies purchase the once great names just
to ride the once great name for the almighty dollar while at the same
time providing a crappy product! The icing on the cake was when I saw a
DEI Produced Orion HCCA amplifier that was Class freaking D. HCCA used
to stand for High Current Class A and now they are badging their
overseas crap with the same name as the once great Orion red
amplifiers.... Sad!

Sorry for ranting, but it ****es me off when I see names of once great
products that are not even 1/2 as good as the original!

-Chris


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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ChrisB ChrisB is offline
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Posts: 81
Default MB Quart DKE116

John Durbin wrote:
While it's always entertaining to hear people rant about things they
don't really understand, I felt compelled to correct at least ONE thing
Chris blew in this rant:

HCCA has nothing to do with Class A. HCCA amps were never Class A. They
were all Class AB high current/low impedance stable designs.

HCCA actually stands for High Current Competition Amplifier (i.e.
"cheater amp"). Read the history of SPL competition and you'll
understand why these amps even exist.


Well, I stand corrected on the HCCA nomenclature. Oddly, it was one of
Orion's Louisiana authorized dealers who told me it stood for High
Current Class A, which in itself always confused me because Class A amps
by their nature don't output that kind of power close to a theoretical
short without switching to Class B somewhere along the line!

Might as well throw a bucket of reality on the rest of this rant while
I'm at it:


You should have stopped here and in order to keep it professional I will
stop here! My opinions of overseas build houses, the cheapest possible
components, the loss of car audio passion for profit, and amps marketed
at maximum rated power are probably things that no one wants to read!

JD

P.S. Stay tuned for 2009, the Orion legacy is far from dead!


I am actually looking forward to something new and different. Who
knows, I may end up going back to Orion before all is said and done.
Ironic, maybe, but I am game for anything that sounds great.
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