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#1
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right
up against the microphones when they sing? |
#2
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:25:19 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Because they are not properly trained and can't sing loudly enough. d |
#3
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? It's a habit they pick up from all those "auditions". |
#4
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On 4/13/2012 2:26 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:25:19 +0200, wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Because they are not properly trained and can't sing loudly enough. d Hmmmm.... Wondering if this is a test post to see who doesn't have "Mxsmanic" in their kill file. Truly (based on past posts) do you believe "Mxsmanic" cares to actually learn anything on this subject? == Later... Ron Capik cynic-in-training -- |
#5
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? 1. Because they are unskilled and have not learned proper microphone technique. 2. Because they are used to using horrible PA systems that are being run on the edge of feedback and need all the gain they can get. In general, not a sign of a competent vocalist, but some people just won't stop eating the microphone. A good solution for microphone-eaters is to give them a fake microphone to sing into and then a narrow pattern mike six inches away to actually use. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On 4/13/2012 4:26 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? 1. Because they are unskilled and have not learned proper microphone technique. 2. Because they are used to using horrible PA systems that are being run on the edge of feedback and need all the gain they can get. In general, not a sign of a competent vocalist, but some people just won't stop eating the microphone. A good solution for microphone-eaters is to give them a fake microphone to sing into and then a narrow pattern mike six inches away to actually use. --scott 3. They want to hide that they're lip syncing. == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#7
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Ron Capik wrote:
3. They want to hide that they're lip syncing. Note to self: no, you may not drink coffee while reading usenet. Kind regards Peter Larsen Later... Ron Capik |
#8
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jeff Henig wrote:
Not entirely true. Some of us are intentionally using proximity effect. I do this when I sing rhythm bass. Heck, sometimes I even bring my fingers up around the top to seal it completely against my mouth. But it's a specific effect I'm looking for. Those are crooners, not singers. Guys like that are better off using a mike with an outrageously tight pattern like a KMS150 which lets you get that sound without getting so close you pop it. Not to mention that THAT is what a microphone is FOR. Otherwise, we could just get rid of electrical sound reinforcement altogether and go back to proper building design and singers who project. I'd be in favor of that, absolutely. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On Fri 2012-Apr-13 14:26, Don Pearce writes:
Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Because they are not properly trained and can't sing loudly enough. Agreed, many aren't trained at all. But then even if they've had a bit of training, which usually isn't true, their choice of microphone for the application doesn't help matters. i note this especially with folks who use the sm-58 because that's what they've seen other people use. Yeah yeah, before anybody mentions it, I know about the resistor mod and have turned others onto it. OFtentimes introducing them to a different microphone coupled with a little bit of training can do wonders to cure that. Regards, Richard -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#10
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). -- www.jennifermartinmusic.com |
#11
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? 1. Because they are unskilled and have not learned proper microphone technique. And they have seen starlets do it on TV while miming to music. geoff |
#12
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On Friday, April 13, 2012 8:25:19 AM UTC-10, Mxsmanic wrote:
Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? In at least some cases, because the engineer running the PA instructs them to do so, and that same engineer EQs and gain stages things to require that technique. Pretty much the same as Scott's #2, but I've gotten this instruction more than once. Fran |
#13
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jenn wrote:
Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). You'll often see Elton John with a huge foam ball on the mike which appears designed to keep him away from the actual microphone. This is another good trick for mike-eaters. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
"Fran Guidry" wrote in message news:5315390.492.1334373325820.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbxy18... Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? In at least some cases, because the engineer running the PA instructs them to do so, and that same engineer EQs and gain stages things to require that technique. Well it's easier to cope with singers right on the mic in a live concert. than it is when they sing 3 foot from the mic at a whisper, and expect the sound guy to just turn it up. Apart from feedback you have to cope with sound bleed from everything else on stage making it more difficult to get the balance right. Worse still is the ones who constantly move on and off the mic when they shouldn't. A proper professional knows when to adjust the distance as appropriate, and not simply rely on a compressor or sound guy to fix it for them. As for hygiene, I'm often amazed at how few singers bring their own mics. I don't get too many guitarists expecting me to provide a guitar for them, but a microphone of their own is a lot easier to carry. I do use anti-bacterial wipes on the vocal mics in any case though. They're just as likly to catch something from an audience member when signing CD's. Trevor. |
#15
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jenn wrote:
In article , Mxsmanic wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). Some of the time a sound guy can ask for it, not all singers are good at "3 inches from the mouth", but getting closer does awful things to the mouth acoustics and ruins the vox sound. Try holding a fist in front of your mouth while talking or singing and listen as you move it closer and notice the changed feel in the throat when the resonances of the mouth cavity get de-tuned. Also: to determine the exact square foot to stand on on stage when singing: move around singing, loud is not required - making the weeist bit of sound is enough, and notice how it feels in the throat. Stand where it is easiest to sing. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#16
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
In article ,
"Peter Larsen" wrote: Jenn wrote: In article , Mxsmanic wrote: Apart from the hygiene aspects, why do so many singers have their mouths right up against the microphones when they sing? Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). Some of the time a sound guy can ask for it, not all singers are good at "3 inches from the mouth", but getting closer does awful things to the mouth acoustics and ruins the vox sound. Try holding a fist in front of your mouth while talking or singing and listen as you move it closer and notice the changed feel in the throat when the resonances of the mouth cavity get de-tuned. Also: to determine the exact square foot to stand on on stage when singing: move around singing, loud is not required - making the weeist bit of sound is enough, and notice how it feels in the throat. Stand where it is easiest to sing. Kind regards Peter Larsen So true. Also true with many instruments. -- www.jennifermartinmusic.com |
#17
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On 4/13/2012 11:37 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Jenn wrote: Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). You'll often see Elton John with a huge foam ball on the mike which appears designed to keep him away from the actual microphone. This is another good trick for mike-eaters. BSW has a pop filter for RE20/RE27/PR40 that does a great job of keeping the talent's lips off the grill. http://www.bswusa.com/Pop-Filters-BS...POP-P1419.aspx It would be great of the company would make a version of this one for the SM57/SM58/Beta 87. It would look like crap on camera, but it could be useful in non-video environments. |
#18
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
mcp6453 wrote:
It would be great of the company would make a version of this one for the SM57/SM58/Beta 87. Shure's foam screen for the SM57 is as good as the mic, in fact: put on mic and never remove unless you need to for whatever reason. There's also the SM7 ... Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#19
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
mcp6453 wrote:
On 4/13/2012 11:37 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote: Jenn wrote: Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). You'll often see Elton John with a huge foam ball on the mike which appears designed to keep him away from the actual microphone. This is another good trick for mike-eaters. BSW has a pop filter for RE20/RE27/PR40 that does a great job of keeping the talent's lips off the grill. http://www.bswusa.com/Pop-Filters-BS...POP-P1419.aspx Neat indeed! Kind regards Peter Larsen It would be great of the company would make a version of this one for the SM57/SM58/Beta 87. It would look like crap on camera, but it could be useful in non-video environments. |
#20
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Jenn wrote: Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). You'll often see Elton John with a huge foam ball on the mike which appears designed to keep him away from the actual microphone. This is another good trick for mike-eaters. --scott Rubbing grille in armpit (in view of vocalist) has similar effect. geoff |
#21
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Robin K. Banks wrote:
Is it me are are EV mics more pop sensitive than others? I thought "PL" stood for "Pop-Sss! Lookout!" That being said, singers with good technique love them because of the extended distance proximity lows I suppose, and learn to work it for maximum effect. Ronnie Van Zant can be seen using them for example when he wasn't using a 57. Well, try an RE-55 some time! You couldn't pop it if you tried! Mind you, there's absolutely zero proximity effect.... Anyways, some singers with good technique use the proximity effect to fatten up the low end on their voice on certain passages so it does not sound thin. Those with lousy mic chops do it because they saw a good singer do it, but had no idea why I think. I think for people to be able to do this, they have to be able to hear exactly what they sound like. Sadly, very few monitoring systems are good enough for singers to be able to get a sense of this. Good monitoring also prevents popping.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#22
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Robin K. Banks wrote: Is it me are are EV mics more pop sensitive than others? I thought "PL" stood for "Pop-Sss! Lookout!" That being said, singers with good technique love them because of the extended distance proximity lows I suppose, and learn to work it for maximum effect. Ronnie Van Zant can be seen using them for example when he wasn't using a 57. Well, try an RE-55 some time! You couldn't pop it if you tried! Mind you, there's absolutely zero proximity effect.... Anyways, some singers with good technique use the proximity effect to fatten up the low end on their voice on certain passages so it does not sound thin. Those with lousy mic chops do it because they saw a good singer do it, but had no idea why I think. I think for people to be able to do this, they have to be able to hear exactly what they sound like. Sadly, very few monitoring systems are good enough for singers to be able to get a sense of this. Good monitoring also prevents popping.... --scott Oh, man, I know THAT'S right. When I'm singing anything other than rhythm bass, I'll do everything in my power to avoid the popping. Sometimes I think it bothers me more than the engineer. *grin* As far as the low end is concerned, I think I have the opposite problem. My high range is much thinner than my low range. I really enjoy how my low range sounds, in fact, but my upper end sounds thin and brassy to me. I've used doubling, EQ, and phasing to try to fix it, but I'm now somewhat resigned to the fact that it's just going to sound that way. Not to put myself in his league, but if I recall correctly, John Lennon hated the sound of his own voice. Others are much more kind when they review my singing than I am. But it does affect my self-confidence when singing in public. ---Jeff |
#23
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
geoff wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Jenn wrote: Insecurity, probably. I've seen many well-known singers do this (Elton John, Bill Joel, et al). You'll often see Elton John with a huge foam ball on the mike which appears designed to keep him away from the actual microphone. This is another good trick for mike-eaters. --scott Rubbing grille in armpit (in view of vocalist) has similar effect. geoff Ummmmm, yeah. I think that'll do it. *shudder* ---Jeff |
#24
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jeff Henig wrote:
Crooners, yes. Rhythm bass singing in a contemporary a cappella ensemble is a different animal entirely. Ridiculous EQs set to cut high end (I've seen some use kick drum mics!), very percussive notes--some of which use the "pop" for effect, and serious use of proximity effect to add to the "bass guitar" sound. Ahh! Beatboxing! A very different thing... and a place where you don't want a natural effect either, since the microphone becomes part of the instrument kind of like with a closed kick drum.... I'd be in favor of that, absolutely. That, of course, works for some styles of music much better than others. But in those cases, yes, I'm in whole-hearted agreement with you. I would just ONCE like to see a Broadway revival done without reinforcement, like the original show was. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#25
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
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#26
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
In article
, Jeff Henig wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Jeff Henig wrote: Crooners, yes. Rhythm bass singing in a contemporary a cappella ensemble is a different animal entirely. Ridiculous EQs set to cut high end (I've seen some use kick drum mics!), very percussive notes--some of which use the "pop" for effect, and serious use of proximity effect to add to the "bass guitar" sound. Ahh! Beatboxing! A very different thing... and a place where you don't want a natural effect either, since the microphone becomes part of the instrument kind of like with a closed kick drum.... YES, exactly. Well, almost. We have one in our group who actually does vocal percussion (he swears it's different from beatboxing but for the life of me, I don't know how), and I'm actually vocalizing the part of a bass guitar mixed with both kick drum and true word-singing. EQ'ing our two parts can be a bear if you're doing it for the first time. I'd be in favor of that, absolutely. That, of course, works for some styles of music much better than others. But in those cases, yes, I'm in whole-hearted agreement with you. I would just ONCE like to see a Broadway revival done without reinforcement, like the original show was. --scott No kidding. I would really enjoy that! Are they even doing opera anymore without reinforcement? Oh yes. Most places. -- www.jennifermartinmusic.com |
#27
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
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#28
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jeff Henig writes:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Jeff Henig wrote: Crooners, yes. Rhythm bass singing in a contemporary a cappella ensemble is a different animal entirely. Ridiculous EQs set to cut high end (I've seen some use kick drum mics!), very percussive notes--some of which use the "pop" for effect, and serious use of proximity effect to add to the "bass guitar" sound. Ahh! Beatboxing! A very different thing... and a place where you don't want a natural effect either, since the microphone becomes part of the instrument kind of like with a closed kick drum.... YES, exactly. Well, almost. We have one in our group who actually does vocal percussion (he swears it's different from beatboxing but for the life of me, I don't know how), and I'm actually vocalizing the part of a bass guitar mixed with both kick drum and true word-singing. EQ'ing our two parts can be a bear if you're doing it for the first time. Here's a little trick for beat-boxing that's cleaner than an obnoxious 'plosive into the microphone. Possibly dangerous live, but certainly workable in the studio. This case is for Protools: 1. Set up an oscillator on a new channel, tune it to, say, 50 hz (sine), -20 dB to start. 2. Add a gate after the oscillator; set that gate to external keying using an available bus. 3. Put a new send on the beat channel, using the same bus selected for the external key input of the gate. 4. Along with the send level, adjust the thresholds and timings on the gate so that you're getting a little burst of LF on the "kick drum" portion of the beat. Tune the oscillator up a bit to get a little more audible kick (70hz, perhaps), but much higher than 100 Hz and it'll sound odd. Much lower and most systems won't reproduce it. You can fine-tune the hz for the best fit for a given beat sound. Careful you don't put too much in the mix, otherwise, it'll sound like what it is, a gated burst of LF tone. You might need to compress or EQ-shape the key signal a little, but overall this will give you a pretty rich LF thump (when you need it). Have fun with it. Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#29
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jeff Henig writes:
Are they even doing opera anymore without reinforcement? The last time I saw an opera--probably about ten years ago, I'm not sure--it seemed that all the performers and the orchestra were working without any electronic amplification at all. At first it surprised me. But then I figured that it makes sense, since the whole purpose of opera singing is to make the singer audible alongside an orchestra without any artificial amplification. Unfortunately it also makes opera singing unintelligible and very artificial in sound. |
#30
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
"Jeff Henig" wrote in message ... Rubbing grille in armpit (in view of vocalist) has similar effect. geoff Ummmmm, yeah. I think that'll do it.... To make sure they never hire you again? Almost certainly. Trevor. |
#31
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
понедељак, 16. април 2012. 08.44.37 UTC+2, Mxsmanic је написао/ла:
Jeff Henig writes: Often, there is some kind of invisible reinforcement, mic arrays up the ceiling, or similar and inwall speakers on delay lines, but thats 'there for pourposes mentioned in Frank Stearns' post. |
#32
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On Apr 15, 11:10*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Sadly, very few monitoring systems are good enough for singers to be able to get a sense of this. I'm sure this contributes to mic-eating as well. Speaking not as an engineer or as a "real singer" but only as an untrained, not very good singer who has done background vocals in small club gigs: if I can't hear myself well enough to tell if I'm on pitch, I get closer to the mic. I don't think I have *ever* had the feeling that I could tell what my mic actually sounded like. In my context (amateur and semi-pro bands), "monitoring system" includes not just the gear but also the lack of time for soundcheck, lack of a dedicated monitor engineer, lack of space onstage, and lack of decent acoustics for the music. It's hard, without a lot of experience, to judge your distance from the mic when you are simultaneously trying to harmonize, remember the lyrics, and play your instrument. (And depending on the gig and your role, you may need to care about how you look, too. I mostly wasn't in that sort of band.) Mic distance is usually the last thing on my mind, and if I can't tell what effect it has anyway, what can I do? Finally: You may not be able to see very well. If you're touching the mic, at least you know where it is, and at least if you're consistent about it, the engineer can hopefully cope. Inside of 45 minutes we'll be yanking our gear off the stage as quick as possible and he'll be on to dealing with the next batch of doofuses. If it's a lead singer who's not playing an instrument though, well then, even in an amateur/semipro context, mic technique *is* the instrument, or at least a large part of it. |
#33
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
mcp6453 wrote:
BSW has a pop filter for RE20/RE27/PR40 that does a great job of keeping the talent's lips off the grill. http://www.bswusa.com/Pop-Filters-BS...POP-P1419.aspx It would be great of the company would make a version of this one for the SM57/SM58/Beta 87. It would look like crap on camera, but it could be useful in non-video environments. http://www.wind-tech.net/Large_Windscreens.php --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#34
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Jeff Henig wrote:
I would just ONCE like to see a Broadway revival done without reinforcement, like the original show was. No kidding. I would really enjoy that! Are they even doing opera anymore without reinforcement? Yes! Unfortunately that's about the only thing that is done without reinforcement, though. But it's still a joy to just hear someone filling a hall with their voice. I heard Cab Calloway on stage once, with the power out. He was louder than the band, and he was in his nineties too. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#35
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Scott Dorsey writes:
Yes! Unfortunately that's about the only thing that is done without reinforcement, though. But it's still a joy to just hear someone filling a hall with their voice. Is there something different between reinforcement and amplification? I heard Cab Calloway on stage once, with the power out. He was louder than the band, and he was in his nineties too. Maybe he could no longer hear himself performing. |
#36
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
It IS a bad habit, and improper technique. And I see everyone doing it, not just musicians. Public speakers, politicians. Although I do encourage experimentation - your recorded voice will sound different at 2 inches vs 7 inches away from the screen - I learned in recording studio training that 3-5" is technically the best distance.
I would use 'spit screens' in the studio to keep them back but this might prove awkward-looking in concert. Another option is headsets - again, in studio - but might look too sci-fi on stage. And the freq response might not quite compare to a classic Neumann or esoteric mic from before WWII(!) Perhaps, as you suggested, we have simply let training & proper technique fall by the wayside for the sake of rushing out another contractual obligation. lol! -CC |
#37
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Scott Dorsey writes: Yes! Unfortunately that's about the only thing that is done without reinforcement, though. But it's still a joy to just hear someone filling a hall with their voice. Is there something different between reinforcement and amplification? Philosophy, for the most part. I heard Cab Calloway on stage once, with the power out. He was louder than the band, and he was in his nineties too. Maybe he could no longer hear himself performing. No, he was perfect. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#38
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 11:16:17 AM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: Scott Dorsey writes: Yes! Unfortunately that's about the only thing that is done without reinforcement, though. But it's still a joy to just hear someone filling a hall with their voice. Is there something different between reinforcement and amplification? Philosophy, for the most part. I heard Cab Calloway on stage once, with the power out. He was louder than the band, and he was in his nineties too. Maybe he could no longer hear himself performing. No, he was perfect. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." _______ I usually combat "microphone lips" by either #1. Turning them up just until a small FB squeal emerges, and they pull back(!) or #2. I fully CCW the LF knob on their channel in comb. with their High-pass button(if present). Works like charm! -CC |
#39
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Luxey wrote:
Often, there is some kind of invisible reinforcement, mic arrays up the cei= ling, or similar and inwall speakers on delay lines, but thats 'there for p= ourposes mentioned in Frank Stearns' post. If you _ever_ notice sound reinforcement with acoustic music, something is wrong. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#40
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Why do singers put their mouths against microphones?
Scott Dorsey writes:
No, he was perfect. Ninety years old with perfect hearing? He was lucky, then, especially for a musician. |
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