[Carey Carlan]

I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My old
Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and good
outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the bits coming
from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit in the
rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

[hank alrich]

Carey Carlan wrote:

I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My old
Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and good
outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the bits coming
from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit in the
rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

Aleisis HD24?

JoeCo Blackbox?
BBR1A with Lightpipe digital i/o
http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_models.html

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[RD Jones]

Carey Carlan wrote:
What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16 channels of sound)?

On Apr 18, 10:19 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Aleisis HD24?

Go ahead and get the HD24XR version and be done with it. ;-

I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.

It's not _quite_ that simple.
You have to arm each track individually.
If there's an "arm all" function I haven't found it yet.
RTFM ? I'm too busy arming tracks to read it...

RedDog

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:19:53 -0500, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Carey Carlan wrote:

I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My old
Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and good
outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the bits coming
from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit in the
rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

Aleisis HD24?

JoeCo Blackbox?
BBR1A with Lightpipe digital i/o
http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_models.html


I have an HD 24 and can't recommend it. It sounds fine and has been
reliable but it uses IDE drives that are becoming scarce and Alesis
has stopped supporting it. Even when they did, they sucked at it.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://www.liondogmusic.com

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Carey Carlan wrote:
I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My old
Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and good
outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the bits coming
from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit in the
rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

(pretty sure Hank found this first)

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
might be a rack shelf and something to strap them to the rack shelf.
Might also enable you to offer the media to the customer if they're
interested.

It is menu driven, and I am not sure how you arm tracks. "Touch
sensitive" - might be from the front panel ( which would be very nice ).

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Carey Carlan wrote:
I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My old
Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and good
outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the bits coming
from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit in the
rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

(pretty sure Hank found this first)

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
might be a rack shelf and something to strap them to the rack shelf.
Might also enable you to offer the media to the customer if they're
interested.

It is menu driven, and I am not sure how you arm tracks. "Touch
sensitive" - might be from the front panel ( which would be very nice ).

--
Les Cargill

[RD Jones]

On Apr 18, 11:23*pm, Rick Ruskin wrote:

I have an HD 24 and can't recommend it. *It sounds fine and has been
reliable but it uses IDE drives that are becoming scarce and Alesis
has stopped supporting it. *Even when they did, they sucked at it. *
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WAhttp://www.liondogmusic.com-

Really ?
I got my XR new just barely a year ago.
The Alesis site seems to suggest that it's still a current product.
If this is true it's deplorable, but not outside the realm of remote
possibilities. :-o

rd

[Trevor]

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
...
I have an HD 24 and can't recommend it. It sounds fine and has been
reliable but it uses IDE drives that are becoming scarce

Have you tried using a cheap SATA to IDE interface?

and Alesis
has stopped supporting it. Even when they did, they sucked at it.

That's more of an issue unfortunately.

Trevor.

[Rick Ruskin]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:38:32 -0700 (PDT), RD Jones
wrote:

On Apr 18, 11:23*pm, Rick Ruskin wrote:

I have an HD 24 and can't recommend it. *It sounds fine and has been
reliable but it uses IDE drives that are becoming scarce and Alesis
has stopped supporting it. *Even when they did, they sucked at it. *
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WAhttp://www.liondogmusic.com-

Really ?
I got my XR new just barely a year ago.
The Alesis site seems to suggest that it's still a current product.
If this is true it's deplorable, but not outside the realm of remote
possibilities. :-o

rd

Since being bought by Numark, Alesis has been assembling, selling, and
servicing HD24's from existing parts. That stock is pretty much if
not totally gone now.

The little remote control is a joke and the old ADAT BRC, which is
supposed to be compatible, is the most inconvenient remote I've ever
encountered. Among other things, it is only stable @ 48khz and
settings must be kludged to do 44.1khz.

Just out of curiosity, how is your Mackie messing up on you?


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://www.liondogmusic.com

[Carey Carlan]

Les Cargill wrote in
:

Carey Carlan wrote:
I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My
old Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to
important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and
good outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the
bits coming from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the
better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit
in the rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

(pretty sure Hank found this first)

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
might be a rack shelf and something to strap them to the rack shelf.
Might also enable you to offer the media to the customer if they're
interested.

It is menu driven, and I am not sure how you arm tracks. "Touch
sensitive" - might be from the front panel ( which would be very nice
).

--
Les Cargill

My Gracious? $3400 for a bit-capture device?

Yes, it's exactly what I asked for, but why is it so expensive? All it
does is transfer bits from the lightpipe to the hard disk.

[Carey Carlan]

Rick Ruskin wrote in
:

Since being bought by Numark, Alesis has been assembling, selling, and
servicing HD24's from existing parts. That stock is pretty much if
not totally gone now.

The little remote control is a joke and the old ADAT BRC, which is
supposed to be compatible, is the most inconvenient remote I've ever
encountered. Among other things, it is only stable @ 48khz and
settings must be kludged to do 44.1khz.

Just out of curiosity, how is your Mackie messing up on you?

It gives me a disk error about 30 seconds into a recording intermittently.
This happens on both external and internal drives. I've replaced hard
drives and carriers to no effect. And all those drives run just fine in
the computer.

After the error I have to unplug it (not turn it off) because it hangs.

Then I lose all my settings and have to once again tell it to read from the
lightpipe ports and clock from ADAT1.

The worst part is that it doesn't fail until the red light is on.

[hank alrich]

Carey Carlan wrote:

Les Cargill wrote in
:

Carey Carlan wrote:
I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My
old Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to
important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and
good outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the
bits coming from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the
better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit
in the rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

(pretty sure Hank found this first)

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
might be a rack shelf and something to strap them to the rack shelf.
Might also enable you to offer the media to the customer if they're
interested.

It is menu driven, and I am not sure how you arm tracks. "Touch
sensitive" - might be from the front panel ( which would be very nice
).

--
Les Cargill

My Gracious? $3400 for a bit-capture device?

Yes, it's exactly what I asked for, but why is it so expensive? All it
does is transfer bits from the lightpipe to the hard disk.

The company is in the UK so currency enxchange rates, presently not
favoring the US$, come into play.

It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial model,
at touring companies and groups seeking something compact and capable
of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much, and it also
houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is only about the
particular digital interface provided for that model.

In theory, it could replace both your HDR and your convertors.


General Specifications

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)
Monitoring: 1 x 1/4" TRS jack socket,
headphone mix/solo
Physical: 19" rack mounted 1U
Dimensions: (425mm x 150mm x 44mm)
Weight: 2.4kg

Control and Synchronisation

MIDI: 1 x 5-pin DIN (open loop) - MIDI time
code (MTC) and MIDI machine control (MMC)
protocol
LTC: 1 x 1/4" TRS jack socket:
Frame rates supported: 30fps, 29.97drop fps,
29.97non-drop fps, 25fps, 24fps, 23.98fps
Machine control: 1 x 9-pin D, SONY PII protocol
Audio clock synchronisation: 2 x RCA sockets
AES3 / SPDIF Format, also used for
communications to slave units
Footswitch: momentary switch on ring of LTC
TRS socket
Keyboard: 1 x mini DIN PS2 connector,
Standard 102 key
Power: 9v - 16V dc ( 25W). 2.1mm dc inlet.
PSU supplied
--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Rick Ruskin]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:47:24 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

Rick Ruskin wrote in
:

Since being bought by Numark, Alesis has been assembling, selling, and
servicing HD24's from existing parts. That stock is pretty much if
not totally gone now.

The little remote control is a joke and the old ADAT BRC, which is
supposed to be compatible, is the most inconvenient remote I've ever
encountered. Among other things, it is only stable @ 48khz and
settings must be kludged to do 44.1khz.

Just out of curiosity, how is your Mackie messing up on you?

It gives me a disk error about 30 seconds into a recording intermittently.
This happens on both external and internal drives. I've replaced hard
drives and carriers to no effect. And all those drives run just fine in
the computer.

After the error I have to unplug it (not turn it off) because it hangs.

Then I lose all my settings and have to once again tell it to read from the
lightpipe ports and clock from ADAT1.

The worst part is that it doesn't fail until the red light is on.


I'm not a tech but I'd have someone check the power supply, especially
the branches feeding the disk drives.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://www.liondogmusic.com

[[email protected]]

On 2011-04-19 (hankalrich) said:
big snip

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU
snip again
http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html
Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
The company is in the UK so currency enxchange rates, presently not
favoring the US$, come into play.
It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial
model, at touring companies and groups seeking something compact
and capable of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much,
and it also houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is
only about the particular digital interface provided for that model.
I wish it had been out when I was shopping for recorder for
remote truck, I would have told Alesis and their proprietary
file format to kiss where the sun never shines. ONe has
to play games with sata converters, and then there's the
caddy thing.
An hd-24 user active on their yahoo group devised some Sata
caddies for the thing but he's not going into the full blown
manufacturing business, and then there's still that crappy
proprietary file format garbage to deal with. YEah yeah
I've got hd24tools, but still it's a pita step in the
process of delivery of material to the client.
Small footprint, broadcast wav files on usb drive to deliver
directly to client, as long as it had controls the old blind
man could feel I'd really jump on it, but I haven't seen one
physically yet, with fingers or eyes.
Variou i/o configurations available as were noted, analog to
their converters or litepipe.
I don't want to fool with a laptop that's general purpose,
number uno screen readers and capture of multitrack audio
don't coexist well together, and I demand the reliability.
WE don't play solitaire, we don't word process or anything
else if we're a recorder, we arm tracks roll and print.

Regards,



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Carey Carlan wrote:

I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My
old Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to
important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

HD24 (xr) or Joeco come to mind - I have yet to se use reports regarding the
Joeco. Join the HD24 mailing list.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and
good outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the
bits coming from 2 ADAT leads.

So the XR is irrelevant, good for you, it appaers slightly less roadworthy
than the vanilla model because of an insufficiently sturdy fitting of the
expansion kit.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the
better.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit
in the rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

[Arny Krueger]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message


I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will
interface with my laptop. That adds another component
(the computer) that doesn't fit in the rack. Yes, it
would work, but makes life that much tougher.

Due to some unusual requirements, my last few festival recording sessions
involved:

A laptop
An external DVD burner
An Ikey Flash-based recorder
A Panasonic CD recorder
A SX 202 mic preamp
NT-4 Mic + 12' stand
Cables for power, mics and other equipment.

Seems to me that haluling and setting up *this much* gear would break your
back, Carey. ;-)

Pamper yourself much? ;-)

My take is that as long as I can haul it all in one load of my roll-around
carrier, it is pretty well all the same.

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message


I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will
interface with my laptop. That adds another component
(the computer) that doesn't fit in the rack. Yes, it
would work, but makes life that much tougher.

Due to some unusual requirements, my last few festival recording
sessions involved:

A laptop
An external DVD burner
An Ikey Flash-based recorder
A Panasonic CD recorder
A SX 202 mic preamp
NT-4 Mic + 12' stand
Cables for power, mics and other equipment.

Seems to me that haluling and setting up *this much* gear would break
your back, Carey. ;-)

Pamper yourself much? ;-)

My take is that as long as I can haul it all in one load of my
roll-around carrier, it is pretty well all the same.

That may be the deciding factor, given the price and functionality of
the alternatives.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Carey Carlan wrote:
Les wrote in
:

Carey Carlan wrote:
I've been using the same bit-capture device for a decade or more. My
old Mackie SDR24/96 is just getting too unreliable to take to
important gigs.

What's the simplest device I can get to accept 2 ADAT lightpipes (16
channels of sound)? I want a turn-it-on-and-punch-record machine.
Something like a Zoom box with lightpipes instead of microphones.

None of the processing is done in this device. I have excellent and
good outboard preamps and ADC. All I need is a place to store the
bits coming from 2 ADAT leads.

I want simple because I want fast setup. If it fits in 3RU all the
better.

I found the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge which will interface with my
laptop. That adds another component (the computer) that doesn't fit
in the rack. Yes, it would work, but makes life that much tougher.

(pretty sure Hank found this first)

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

Uses USB drives... I am unsure how those might rack up...
might be a rack shelf and something to strap them to the rack shelf.
Might also enable you to offer the media to the customer if they're
interested.

It is menu driven, and I am not sure how you arm tracks. "Touch
sensitive" - might be from the front panel ( which would be very nice
).

--
Les Cargill

My Gracious? $3400 for a bit-capture device?


Yep. there's also the Fostex LR16, but it's a
console form factor.

You might be able to cobble together a PC with
a Frontier Dakota. ZT systems still sells PCs with
2 PCI slots. Got mine at Sams, online. ZT Systems
2146l. I don't know where you put
the monitor, either.

Lightpipe has moved upmarket.

I don't think the price is out of line, FWIW. If
they sell 10,000 of them I would be amazed ( not
that it's not a great product, just that it's
pretty specialized ).

Yes, it's exactly what I asked for, but why is it so expensive? All it
does is transfer bits from the lightpipe to the hard disk.

The absence of internal drives is a feature, not a bug. Add drives,
and it's exactly your old SDR 24/96, yes? Only the
drives are now much more easily removable. And the drives
are available. I have a lifetime stash of 40 and 80 GB
EIDE drives for my aging Fostex VF16.

--
Les Cargill

[Trevor]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial model,
at touring companies and groups seeking something compact and capable
of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much, and it also
houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is only about the
particular digital interface provided for that model.

In theory, it could replace both your HDR and your convertors.


General Specifications

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?

Trevor.

[hank alrich]

Trevor wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial model,
at touring companies and groups seeking something compact and capable
of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much, and it also
houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is only about the
particular digital interface provided for that model.

In theory, it could replace both your HDR and your convertors.


General Specifications

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?

Trevor.

How does "easily" sound? g There are a goodly number of reports of
success in the field with the Blackboxen.

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/reviews.html

I think it's a pretty neat concept for touring aritsts/companies. The
price likely reflects build quality in this case.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Frank Stearns]

"Trevor" writes:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial model,
at touring companies and groups seeking something compact and capable
of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much, and it also
houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is only about the
particular digital interface provided for that model.

In theory, it could replace both your HDR and your convertors.


General Specifications

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?

Yes, this is my question too -- at least how does it do so reliably.

Say what you will about the HD24(XR) file systems, they were devised to make 24
track/24bit /48K (12 track/96K) work on the slower drives of the early 2000s.

It is highly reliable, way more so (IMO) than any windows or mac file system, at
least for striping several datastreams to a disk a the same time, and not getting
hosed when those streams went into, say, a highly-fragmented windows file
system...

USB is another item that spooks me. I've had some inexplicably weird things happen
with large file/large total volume transfers via USB. It seems to lose its mind
every now and then, and I don't know what the USB spec calls for in the way of CRC
or other verfication.

I've never had any problems with similar high-volume transfers via firewire (and it,
oddly enough, is going/has gone away as an interface standard).

The only way in hell I'd consider striping multitrack to a general-purpose file
system is to do it the way RME does it. The data is interleaved to a SINGLE file
handle/single data stream. In the case of a windows file system, the OS and drive
then only needs to walk, not walk AND chew gum at the same time (times 12!).

After the recording is done, you have a re-save option to break out the individual
track data. Now if there's a "catch up" or other file system delay, for whatever
reason, the system can pause while everyone catches up, and you won't get clicks or
pop (or worse).

OTHO, I've feed 24+ tracks from an external USB2 drive to Protools for mixing, so I
guess it works. But if something goes wrong, you back up and try again.

If something hiccups in a live field recording, you're probably screwed.

My $0.02. (And I recently added a vanilla HD24 to stripe duplicate data from the
primary HD24XR. While still not 100% fool proof, it's several shades better than
relying on a 2-track capture of the monitor mix as a "backup.")

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Trevor wrote:
"hank wrote in message
...
It fits in a single rack space, aimed, as it was with the initial model,
at touring companies and groups seeking something compact and capable
of capturig 24 tracks/channels. It doesn't weigh much, and it also
houses full ADC and DAC. The Lightpipe descriptor is only about the
particular digital interface provided for that model.

In theory, it could replace both your HDR and your convertors.


General Specifications

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?

Trevor.



So that's 55-56 mbit/second - 55,296,000 bit/sec.

I'd be interested in hearing from eyewitnesses, but for
a single pair of devices on a USB2 connection 240 Mbit
*shouldn't* be out of range - especially if it's
important to the people implementing the host side.

Especially for $3400...

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers]

On 4/19/2011 11:13 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?

Yes, this is my question too -- at least how does it do so reliably.

Say what you will about the HD24(XR) file systems, they were devised to make 24
track/24bit /48K (12 track/96K) work on the slower drives of the early 2000s.

USB is another item that spooks me. I've had some inexplicably weird things happen
with large file/large total volume transfers via USB. It seems to lose its mind
every now and then, and I don't know what the USB spec calls for in the way of CRC
or other verfication.

I don't think that USB in itself is the problem (though I
don't really know this for a fact). The numbers show that it
should have plenty of breathing room for 24 channels at
standard sample rate, but 8 channel USB I/O boxes seem to be
the norm, and there are darn few of them. Some models with
numbers like 16 or 18 in them usually don't have that many
analog inputs and depend on an outboard A/D converter with
ADAT optical output to provide the other 8 inputs.

Then, for Windows users, there's the ASIO problem that you
can't have more than one ASIO device at a time. If you need
two or three boxes to get 24 channels, you're at the mercy
of the manufacturer to provide a driver that allows
cascading their own devices. The last couple of versions of
Mac OS-X allow you to "aggregate" multiple devices using the
Apple Core Audio subsystem.

There are a couple of 24-channel Firewire I/O boxes. I'm
pretty sure MOTU still makes one so that's a possibility.

Still, with the computer hardware built by one company (or
several, actually), the operating system from another, the
audio I/O from yet another, and perhaps a driver from still
a another, the cables, the software, you have to be a pretty
good system engineer to built that all up reliably. When you
don't have the opportunity for a "let's do that again after
I reboot the computer," buying a bulletproof single piece of
hardware is the best way to protect your reputation and live
to get another gig.

The only way in hell I'd consider striping multitrack to a general-purpose file
system is to do it the way RME does it. The data is interleaved to a SINGLE file
handle/single data stream. In the case of a windows file system, the OS and drive
then only needs to walk, not walk AND chew gum at the same time (times 12!).

After the recording is done, you have a re-save option to break out the individual
track data.

Hmmmm . . . I was aware that RME seems to have the best
reputation for robustness, but didn't know it worked like
that. How does this scheme interact with the application
software (DAW)? Does the driver know when the recording
session stops and ask you to split up the stored file? And
how does that affect disk storage requirements?




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message


Then, for Windows users, there's the ASIO problem that you
can't have more than one ASIO device at a time. If you
need two or three boxes to get 24 channels, you're at the
mercy of the manufacturer to provide a driver that allows
cascading their own devices. The last couple of versions
of Mac OS-X allow you to "aggregate" multiple devices
using the Apple Core Audio subsystem.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb0...pcmusician.htm

"Fortunately, quite a few manufacturers have developed suitable multi-device
drivers that typically support up to four identical interfaces, or a mix of
up to four similar models from the same range. The best advice (as always)
is to download the latest drivers for your interface, so that you can read
the accompanying Read Me or Help file to see what expansion possibilities
there are, before purchasing an additional unit."

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?hi...mpage=1#748902

"You can't use more than one ASIO driver simultaneously in any app - it's a
limitation of ASIO.
However, there are situations when several interfaces can share the one ASIO
driver - this depends entirely on the qualities of the driver.
With M-audio, for example, you can use up to 4 interfaces from the Delta
range, even mix different types, using the same ASIO driver, and all
interfaces appear in the Delta ASIO control panel. "

[PStamler]

Radar?

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
PStamler wrote:
Radar?

Or, on a smaller scale, the portable 8-track gadgets like the Fostex.

Still, the radar is really hard to beat.
--scott
(still in DTRS-land and still happy about it)

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[david correia]

Does anyone know of one of those small, cheap portable recorders that
has spdif in?



David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

Frank writes:

snip

Say what you will about the HD24(XR) file systems, they were devised
to make 24 track/24bit /48K (12 track/96K) work on the slower
drives of the early 2000s.

Indeed this is true. I've found that if I run a UPS in the
power chain I don't worry about it at all. tHe extra steps
getting the assistant to play with the gui to do format
conversion and transfer later is a pain in my backside, but, when the power source is beefed up with a ups I have few
complaints in that regard.
Just still would have gone with the balck box had they been
out when I was starting to re-equip after Katrina. I want
some cooler high end microphones, and improvements for the
less than truck one rack and go solution, like Manley labs
or something for line mixer instead of the dreaded b word,
then we might at a blackbox.

But, the xr's converters aren't bad, and it does its job,
and the yahoo group for its users is quite supportive.
There are some actual pros in that forum as well as a couple of pretty savvy individual providing some aftermarket
support that Alesis in its new guise as supplier of bottom
feeder dj junk doesn't have time to provide.

big snip of good points re usb

If something hiccups in a live field recording, you're probably
screwed.

Which is one reason why I suggest a good ups for anybody
using the Alesis. That's the one feeling I always get when
starting a project using digital that I never got with
analog tape, that what if that turns into "oh no" feeling.

My $0.02. (And I recently added a vanilla HD24 to stripe duplicate
data from the primary HD24XR. While still not 100% fool proof, it's
several shades better than relying on a 2-track capture of the
monitor mix as a "backup.")

YEp, that's one way to do it. I'll probably go with the
Joeco and if it works I've got client deliverables right
now, if it don't ... well we've got the data from the
Alesis.


Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Mike Rivers]

On 4/20/2011 8:14 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
david correia wrote:
Does anyone know of one of those small, cheap portable
recorders that has spdif in?

I don't believe any of them have it. I would guess
the space budget for the connector ( they won't do it
optical ) would kill 'em.

The M-Audio MicroTrack had a S/PDIF input, but that product
has been discontinued. A lot of people bought it just for
that feature, however. The TASCAM 680 records up to 8
channels, with six mic/line inputs and an S/PDIF input.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

david correia wrote:
Does anyone know of one of those small, cheap portable recorders that
has spdif in?



David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com


I don't believe any of them have it. I would guess
the space budget for the connector ( they won't do it
optical ) would kill 'em.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In ,
wrote:
Radar?

Or, on a smaller scale, the portable 8-track gadgets like the Fostex.


You can't find fresh drives for 'em easily. They're
around, but scarce. Mine also has little button-switches
going out. Of all the ones to go, the PAN went first.
It'll be a full day of disassembly/reassembly to take
the thing apart, too. I just use something else for
stereo monitoring - the onboard or an ADA8000.

Still, the radar is really hard to beat.
--scott
(still in DTRS-land and still happy about it)


--
Les Cargill

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

snips

The only way in hell I'd consider striping multitrack to a general-purpose file
system is to do it the way RME does it. The data is interleaved to a SINGLE file
handle/single data stream. In the case of a windows file system, the OS and drive
then only needs to walk, not walk AND chew gum at the same time (times 12!).

After the recording is done, you have a re-save option to break out the individual
track data.

Hmmmm . . . I was aware that RME seems to have the best
reputation for robustness, but didn't know it worked like
that. How does this scheme interact with the application
software (DAW)? Does the driver know when the recording
session stops and ask you to split up the stored file? And
how does that affect disk storage requirements?


Oh, sorry... My central focus on reliable "live-capture" was the foundation for that
post. I should have zoomed out a bit...

After you do your initial capture of data through your RME hardware with the RME
software, you go back and do a re-save to break out that data into separate files.
Then you can do normal post production with your DAW of choice (though you can
playback the native interleaved stream through other RME mixer applications).

If the file system is whacky at that point, no problem; you haven't lost anything.
You're just annoyed in the mix session at which point you can defrag, get a new
drive, tweak your host system, or whatever might be needed to get consistently clean
playbacks while you mix.

Now, I don't know that RME does this interleave by default with everything they
provide; it's the method used in the recording function of their DIGIcheck software.

Sometime back I'd posted a query about finding the most direct and simple method to
stripe audio data to a laptop without involving PT or other full-blown DAW.

Given that I had an RME piece in a "B" kit already, some good person here suggested
DIGIcheck and I have used it a few different times with good success -- but tracking
to a laptop is *not* my primary capture method. (!) (Tracking a live
orchestra/choir to a windows laptop does not foster relaxation. g)


Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On 4/20/2011 9:03 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
The only way in hell I'd consider striping multitrack to a general-purpose file
system is to do it the way RME does it. The data is interleaved to a SINGLE file
handle/single data stream.

Oh, sorry... My central focus on reliable "live-capture" was the foundation for that
post. I should have zoomed out a bit...

After you do your initial capture of data through your RME hardware with the RME
software, you go back and do a re-save to break out that data into separate files.
Then you can do normal post production with your DAW of choice (though you can
playback the native interleaved stream through other RME mixer applications).

Oh, I get it. You use the software that RME provides as the
capture program, then use the DAW (or your real console) for
mixing after you break the RME file out into individual
tracks. Pretty neat. Probably less of a software load on
the computer, too. And if it's a live show, you don't really

Today's processors have plenty of horsepower for multitrack, and theoretically so do
the file systems. But in the case of the latter, seems to me that too many
age/use/file-system-design-trade-off variables come into play to make them reliable
enough for recording. The single stream thing sets aside a number of lurking
gotchas.

You might have some of the same twists and turns due to fragmentation or drive aging
that slows seek ability, but now you're just chasing one path, not 24+!


I've always wanted to play with that program, but since I
never had an RME interface, I've never had it to play with.
Is this a recommended procedure for multitrack recording, or
something that you dreamed up that just happens to work well?

You mean that RME dreamed up... (Mostly DIGIcheck has some interesting metering and
analysis tools; the recording aspect almost seems like an afterthought. Perhaps for
that reason, the recording function is delightfully simple and uncluttered.)

I had overflow work and needed to cobble together a bullet-proof "B" kit from parts
on hand that I could send out with an associate, and the recording platform I had
was an older laptop.

DIGICheck seemed like the perfect solution because it did *exactly* what I wanted
given the need: simply capture digital data from the RME box and stripe it to the
laptop. No routing, no processing, no (or extremely simple) UIs to mess with. And
the single file approach was a jump-for-joy.



I've never been screwed by my Mackie HDR24/96. PreSonus has
a program called Capture that they ship with their
StudioLive digital firewire I/O mixers that's really simple
and puts very little strain on the CPU, though it does save
one file per track per record pass. It's aimed (may god not
strike me down this time) at the church crowd, I think,
where someone who knows enough to be dangerous buys a mixer
for the church that's too complicated for any of the
volunteer sound crew to operate. But it defaults to all
tracks armed for recording, one track assigned to the preamp
(direct) out of each channel of the mixer, and one button
starts it recording. Press the Firewire Input buttons on the
mixer, rewind to the beginning, and you can do everything
over again except move the mics and stop the feedback.

Chuckle.

Capture sounds similar to DIGICheck except for the multi-file aspect. And in fact
that Presonus box was suggested to me, but what I had was the RME (which I mainly
use for a router/digital format converter; it just also happens to have some
reasonably good mic preamps and ADCs/DACs bolted on).

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Trevor]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?


So that's 55-56 mbit/second - 55,296,000 bit/sec.

I'd be interested in hearing from eyewitnesses, but for
a single pair of devices on a USB2 connection 240 Mbit
*shouldn't* be out of range - especially if it's
important to the people implementing the host side.

Especially for $3400...


No it's not out of *possible* range, IF there are no hiccups on the system,
and trying to run other devices like USB mice etc. Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that level.
Surely USB3 is the answer now if you really need something other than
firewire? I would certainly not be taking the risk at that price anyway.

Trevor.

[hank alrich]

Trevor wrote:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?


So that's 55-56 mbit/second - 55,296,000 bit/sec.

I'd be interested in hearing from eyewitnesses, but for
a single pair of devices on a USB2 connection 240 Mbit
*shouldn't* be out of range - especially if it's
important to the people implementing the host side.

Especially for $3400...


No it's not out of *possible* range, IF there are no hiccups on the system,
and trying to run other devices like USB mice etc. Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that level.
Surely USB3 is the answer now if you really need something other than
firewire? I would certainly not be taking the risk at that price anyway.

Trevor.

Does anybody have even a single report of the Joeco Bloackboxes failing
to perform as specified?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[hank alrich]

Richard Webb wrote:

Hank writes:
snip

No it's not out of *possible* range, IF there are no hiccups on the system,
and trying to run other devices like USB mice etc. Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that level.
Surely USB3 is the answer now if you really need something other than
firewire? I would certainly not be taking the risk at that price anyway.

Does anybody have even a single report of the Joeco Bloackboxes
failing to perform as specified?

I'd be very interested in the answer to that question, as
it's looking like my future recorder of choice. As for USB
mice, etc. those wouldn't be running with it of course, but
we're talking a dedicated device, designed to do one thing,
and that's write audio tracks to disk.

The folks behind it had a good track record heh before they headed
into this venture. So far I haven't heard anything negative, except that
a few people have misunderstood the purpose of the device, which is as
you state. It's not built for overdubbing and such. It's intended for
live capture and comes in various models with I/O appropriate to
different setups.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

Hank writes:
snip

No it's not out of *possible* range, IF there are no hiccups on the system,
and trying to run other devices like USB mice etc. Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that level.
Surely USB3 is the answer now if you really need something other than
firewire? I would certainly not be taking the risk at that price anyway.

Does anybody have even a single report of the Joeco Bloackboxes
failing to perform as specified?

I'd be very interested in the answer to that question, as
it's looking like my future recorder of choice. As for USB
mice, etc. those wouldn't be running with it of course, but
we're talking a dedicated device, designed to do one thing,
and that's write audio tracks to disk.


Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Trevor wrote:
"Les wrote in message
...

Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Bit depths: 16bit; 24bit
Disk interface: USB2
Format: FAT32
File type: Broadcast WAV (BWAV)
Media: USB2 hard disk,
USB2 flash drive,
SHDC (with suitable adapter)


But how does it handle 24 channels of 24/96 .wav's via USB2?


So that's 55-56 mbit/second - 55,296,000 bit/sec.

I'd be interested in hearing from eyewitnesses, but for
a single pair of devices on a USB2 connection 240 Mbit
*shouldn't* be out of range - especially if it's
important to the people implementing the host side.

Especially for $3400...


No it's not out of *possible* range, IF there are no hiccups on the system,
and trying to run other devices like USB mice etc.

The system in question is a one-input, one-output link. Completely
dedicated, single-path/single virtual circuit link, if you will.

Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that level.

Interesting. I've had zero problems with it (mainly for backup
hard disks ). This for several years now. The disks themselves die, but
I don't lose files.

Surely USB3 is the answer now if you really need something other than
firewire? I would certainly not be taking the risk at that price anyway.

Trevor.




--
Les Cargill

[Trevor]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Does anybody have even a single report of the Joeco Bloackboxes failing
to perform as specified?

Or does anybody have a single report of them working flawlessly in all
cases, on all systems for that matter?

All I'm saying is that Í for one would not take the chance at that price
when I know there *might* be issues, no matter how infrequently. There are
simply better intrerfaces for the purpose IMO.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately USB2 has
not proven to be that reliable for continuous data streaming at that
level.

Interesting. I've had zero problems with it (mainly for backup
hard disks ). This for several years now. The disks themselves die, but
I don't lose files.

Of course not, file backup is not real time continuous data streaming.
Slight delays in data transfer go unoticed for such applications, and USB2
is fine if you can accept that it is slower to transfer your data than ESATA
or USB3. Personally I've been using ESATA for that a long time before USB3
came along.

Trevor.