[Nate Najar]

for those of you keeping track at home about recording my trio.... I
got it tonight. But since it's a test and not critical stuff, I
didn't pay someone to come monitor/operate whilst I actually perform
and during the second show (the MUCH better one with all the good
repertoire), 5 minutes in, buffer error on the laptop and PT quit
recording. and of course no one was there to re-engage it. argh. I'm
surprised it happened too- I had the buffer all the way and never had
a problem before. but I was recording at 96k and had the audio drive
hooked up USB2 instead of daisy chained on the FW- 2 things I've never
done before. so one of those may have caused the buffer underrun. I
used the maudio mixer app to run FOH off a separate set of outputs on
the recording interface, so that's why I hooked the hard drive up via
USB. if I daisy chain it via FW, it bleeds a "cycling" noise into the
FOH. lesson learned!

and my RSI is acting up so the first set is too sloppy for anything
other than reference, but I'll post a few things in the next few days
when i get a chance to make a 2 mix. My acupuncturist was actually in
the audience, and during the intermission he did something to my arm
and shoulder that helped a lot!

So, first off, I did a main stereo pickup with MS. such a good idea,
thanks Ty. THE hypercardioid for M and 414 for S (it's the only fig8
mic I have! I'd like to get an exceptional set of mics for MS at some
point though!). It picked up everything really well but the bass was
slightly weak and the guitar was pretty weak. I had it pretty close
in though because it's a super live room. We had a guest tonight on
many tunes- a wonderful trombonist from Toronto named Russ Little. He
was represented very naturally and evenly in the main stereo pickup.

I did a spot on the drums with the schoeps mk41 in ORTF. man, why
don't people record drums like that more often. what an incredible
stereo sound. I had the array about cymbal height and about 40 inches
out from the bass drum. I could get by with no drum spot, but
bringing it in a bit adds definition and some dryness. of course I
panned it to more closely resemble the appearance of the drums in the
MS pair.

DPA 4061 on the bass, attached under the bridge. this is a great mic
for this application, it's never fail and requires no eq.

so for my classical guitar, I had the amp real low, but loud enough
for the room (and to force the band to play slightly softer). I found
a GREAT spot for the DPA 4061 mic on the guitar. in the soundhole,
but not IN the soundhole. if you keep it above the top of the guitar,
but obviously low enough under the strings to not interfere with
playing, it sounds great. and the further toward the bridge, the less
low end resonance and buildup. It's tough to get there though as the
cable isn't too rigid at all, but with some determination it can get
kind of placed. if you place it right, it's a great, natural spot,
with no need for eq. I even used it in the FOH for the sound and it
worked like a charm.

It's a small hall- seats about a hundred. it was full. I installed a
sound system the other day- tannoy V8's, horizontally about 20 feet
apart, in yokes attached to the joists. it sounds incredibly good.
the band was slightly behind the FOH speakers. that's probably why my
guitar mic worked well for FOH.

and the recording isn't too "washy" with off axis crappy reflections.
I can't wait to post something. I wish i played better! but now I
know how to spot the guitar and deal with the rest. and the imaging
is unreal.

so for recording remotely with a computer, what's a good stable
program for audio capture for this type of application? I prefer to
mix in logic and I do all my regular production and multitrack work in
logic, but I don't trust it's stability at all for remote stuff. PT
has never given me a problem before with remote things, but as I said
before, I introduced 2 unknowns!

and/or what's a good hardware recorder that can do 8 tracks of
multitrack, stand alone for this type of application? that would be
better, but I'd prefer a rudimentary mixer for monitoring- with
headphone output, etc.... if I could do this whole thing without the
computer, that would be even better! Is there a true 8 track nagra or
sound devices unit?

There's a new RME unit that does FW to the computer but also records
direct to USB media, probably a good safety. and you can run a mixer
app for FOH too. that's appealing. But I'd really love to do this
sans computer!

N

[Mike Rivers]

On 5/4/2011 1:46 AM, Nate Najar wrote:

so for recording remotely with a computer, what's a good stable
program for audio capture for this type of application?

This is on a Mac, right? A friend of mine who does location
recording work swears by Boom Recorder. He does his mixing
either in Logic, or analog through a console.

http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/

He uses it with an RME interface, and mixes in Logic.
There's a 30 day free trial, so download a copy a week or so
before your next gig, figure it out, try it, and if it's
what you're looking for, consider buying it.

PT
has never given me a problem before with remote things, but as I said
before, I introduced 2 unknowns!

I don't think that your changes would have affected it. I
think you just had a case of the computer gremlins, and that
can happen at any time after you boot up the computer. g

and/or what's a good hardware recorder that can do 8 tracks of
multitrack, stand alone for this type of application? that would be
better, but I'd prefer a rudimentary mixer for monitoring- with
headphone output, etc....

You might look into the TASCAM DR-680 over-the-shoulder 8
channel recorder. It costs about $1,000 and I know a few
local pros who are using it successfully. It has 6 mic
inputs - you'll need a preamp with S/PDIF output in order to
get 8. It has a mixer suitable for monitoring, and even has
M-S decoding which can either be routed to two channels for
recording or you can record mid and side mics separately and
just decode them in the monitor mixer. It records to an SD
card, up to 32 GB

http://tascam.com/product/dr-680



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Sean Conolly]

"Nate Najar" wrote in message
...
for those of you keeping track at home about recording my trio.... I
got it tonight. But since it's a test and not critical stuff, I
didn't pay someone to come monitor/operate whilst I actually perform
and during the second show (the MUCH better one with all the good
repertoire), 5 minutes in, buffer error on the laptop and PT quit
recording. and of course no one was there to re-engage it. argh. I'm
surprised it happened too- I had the buffer all the way and never had
a problem before.

Murphy's Law at work - it's the bane of all live work. No matter how
carefully you check out the rig beforehand, it seems that something allways
fails, and frequently at the worst possible time. This why a lot of people
use a backup recorder.

Sean

[Sean Conolly]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 5/4/2011 1:46 AM, Nate Najar wrote:

so for recording remotely with a computer, what's a good stable
program for audio capture for this type of application?

This is on a Mac, right? A friend of mine who does location recording work
swears by Boom Recorder. He does his mixing either in Logic, or analog
through a console.

http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/

And for PC's I'll recommend Reaper for tracking. It has such a small impact
on the OS that I've never had a dropout even when tracking on an old P3
system. I know others who have had a different experience, but for me PT was
having dropouts on the old beast but Reaper didn't. YMMV.

I think it also helps if you're using a PCI based interface instead of USB
or FW, again because it reduces the burden on the OS and shared motherboard
resources.

Sean

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 5/4/2011 1:46 AM, Nate Najar wrote:

so for recording remotely with a computer, what's a good stable
program for audio capture for this type of application?

This is on a Mac, right? A friend of mine who does location
recording work swears by Boom Recorder. He does his mixing
either in Logic, or analog through a console.

http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/

He uses it with an RME interface, and mixes in Logic.
There's a 30 day free trial, so download a copy a week or so
before your next gig, figure it out, try it, and if it's
what you're looking for, consider buying it.

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct streaming
to hard drive? The Metric Halo Console app does that. I track live stuff
with it, and then later I load those tracks into Logic.

PT
has never given me a problem before with remote things, but as I said
before, I introduced 2 unknowns!

I don't think that your changes would have affected it. I
think you just had a case of the computer gremlins, and that
can happen at any time after you boot up the computer. g

and/or what's a good hardware recorder that can do 8 tracks of
multitrack, stand alone for this type of application? that would be
better, but I'd prefer a rudimentary mixer for monitoring- with
headphone output, etc....

You might look into the TASCAM DR-680 over-the-shoulder 8
channel recorder. It costs about $1,000 and I know a few
local pros who are using it successfully. It has 6 mic
inputs - you'll need a preamp with S/PDIF output in order to
get 8. It has a mixer suitable for monitoring, and even has
M-S decoding which can either be routed to two channels for
recording or you can record mid and side mics separately and
just decode them in the monitor mixer. It records to an SD
card, up to 32 GB

http://tascam.com/product/dr-680


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Mike Rivers]

On 5/4/2011 11:16 AM, hank alrich wrote:

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct streaming
to hard drive?

I think Frank Stearns mentioned that. I was thinking about
it, but it sounds like something you need to understand
pretty thoroughly in order to start and finish a project
with it. Might be simple though.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 5/4/2011 11:16 AM, hank alrich wrote:

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct streaming
to hard drive?

I think Frank Stearns mentioned that. I was thinking about
it, but it sounds like something you need to understand
pretty thoroughly in order to start and finish a project
with it. Might be simple though.

With the Metric Halo Console app you call up the Recording pane, pcik
a record folder, arm tracks/inputs down the left side of the window, and
hit the red button. You have various file types to choose from,
including most of the ususal pro suspects. It's super simple and very
analog-like in the control interface.

Later set up a DAW to deal like you wanna, and import the audio files.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Richard Kuschel]

On May 3, 11:46*pm, Nate Najar wrote:
for those of you keeping track at home about recording my trio.... I
got it tonight. *But since it's a test and not critical stuff, I
didn't pay someone to come monitor/operate whilst I actually perform
and during the second show (the MUCH better one with all the good
repertoire), 5 minutes in, buffer error on the laptop and PT quit
recording. *and of course no one was there to re-engage it. *argh. I'm
surprised it happened too- I had the buffer all the way and never had
a problem before. *but I was recording at 96k and had the audio drive
hooked up USB2 instead of daisy chained on the FW- 2 things I've never
done before. *so one of those may have caused the buffer underrun. *I
used the maudio mixer app to run FOH off a separate set of outputs on
the recording interface, so that's why I hooked the hard drive up via
USB. *if I daisy chain it via FW, it bleeds a "cycling" noise into the
FOH. *lesson learned!

and my RSI is acting up so the first set is too sloppy for anything
other than reference, but I'll post a few things in the next few days
when i get a chance to make a 2 mix. *My acupuncturist was actually in
the audience, and during the intermission he did something to my arm
and shoulder that helped a lot!

So, first off, I did a main stereo pickup with MS. *such a good idea,
thanks Ty. *THE hypercardioid for M and 414 for S (it's the only fig8
mic I have! *I'd like to get an exceptional set of mics for MS at some
point though!). *It picked up everything really well but the bass was
slightly weak and the guitar was pretty weak. *I had it pretty close
in though because it's a super live room. *We had a guest tonight on
many tunes- a wonderful trombonist from Toronto named Russ Little. *He
was represented very naturally and evenly in the main stereo pickup.

I did a spot on the drums with the schoeps mk41 in ORTF. *man, why
don't people record drums like that more often. *what an incredible
stereo sound. *I had the array about cymbal height and about 40 inches
out from the bass drum. *I could get by with no drum spot, but
bringing it in a bit adds definition and some dryness. *of course I
panned it to more closely resemble the appearance of the drums in the
MS pair.

DPA 4061 on the bass, attached under the bridge. *this is a great mic
for this application, it's never fail and requires no eq.

so for my classical guitar, I had the amp real low, but loud enough
for the room (and to force the band to play slightly softer). *I found
a GREAT spot for the DPA 4061 mic on the guitar. *in the soundhole,
but not IN the soundhole. *if you keep it above the top of the guitar,
but obviously low enough under the strings to not interfere with
playing, it sounds great. *and the further toward the bridge, the less
low end resonance and buildup. *It's tough to get there though as the
cable isn't too rigid at all, but with some determination it can get
kind of placed. *if you place it right, it's a great, natural spot,
with no need for eq. *I even used it in the FOH for the sound and it
worked like a charm.

It's a small hall- seats about a hundred. *it was full. *I installed a
sound system the other day- tannoy V8's, horizontally about 20 feet
apart, in yokes attached to the joists. *it sounds incredibly good.
the band was slightly behind the FOH speakers. *that's probably why my
guitar mic worked well for FOH.

and the recording isn't too "washy" with off axis crappy reflections.
I can't wait to post something. *I wish i played better! *but now I
know how to spot the guitar and deal with the rest. *and the imaging
is unreal.

so for recording remotely with a computer, what's a good stable
program for audio capture for this type of application? *I prefer to
mix in logic and I do all my regular production and multitrack work in
logic, but I don't trust it's stability at all for remote stuff. *PT
has never given me a problem before with remote things, but as I said
before, I introduced 2 unknowns!

and/or what's a good hardware recorder that can do 8 tracks of
multitrack, stand alone for this type of application? *that would be
better, but I'd prefer a rudimentary mixer for monitoring- with
headphone output, etc.... *if I could do this whole thing without the
computer, that would be even better! *Is there a true 8 track nagra or
sound devices unit?

There's a new RME unit that does FW to the computer but also records
direct to USB media, probably a good safety. *and you can run a mixer
app for FOH too. *that's appealing. But I'd really love to do this
sans computer!

N

I'd probably place the blame on the USB.
I've had problems playing back through USB mounted drives in the
past, but not with FireWire.

Personally, I use an Alesis HD24 for the field work and leave the Mac
in the studio, It's faster to setup and I believe it's more reliable.

[Phil W]

Mike Rivers:
On 5/4/2011 11:16 AM, hank alrich wrote:

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct
streaming to hard drive?

I think Frank Stearns mentioned that. I was thinking about
it, but it sounds like something you need to understand
pretty thoroughly in order to start and finish a project
with it. Might be simple though.

The PDF manual for the RME Fireface 800 mentions - on page 31:

"Global Record. Long-term recording of all channels at lowest system load."

It´s part of the DIGIcheck package.

[Nate Najar]

On May 6, 8:37*am, "Phil W" wrote:
Mike Rivers:

On 5/4/2011 11:16 AM, hank alrich wrote:

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct
streaming to hard drive?

I think Frank Stearns mentioned that. I was thinking about
it, but it sounds like something you need to understand
pretty thoroughly in order to start and finish a project
with it. Might be simple though.

The PDF manual for the RME Fireface 800 mentions - on page 31:

"Global Record. Long-term recording of all channels at lowest system load.."

It´s part of the DIGIcheck package.

The RME looks like a great piece. I want that new UFX box and an
ipad. then you can record, and run FOH from it. It's such a great
idea for a small acoustic act. need funds though!!!!!

N

[Frank Stearns]

"Phil W" writes:

Mike Rivers:
On 5/4/2011 11:16 AM, hank alrich wrote:

Doesn't the RME interface control software also allow direct
streaming to hard drive?

I think Frank Stearns mentioned that. I was thinking about
it, but it sounds like something you need to understand
pretty thoroughly in order to start and finish a project
with it. Might be simple though.

The PDF manual for the RME Fireface 800 mentions - on page 31:

"Global Record. Long-term recording of all channels at lowest system load."

It´s part of the DIGIcheck package.

Correct. Feems like an afterthought on RME's part in terms of the all the things in
the DigiCheck package, but it seems like a nice solution, and I have now used it for
tracking a few times.

All the tracks/inputs (potentially as many as are found in the RME hardware) are
combined to an interleaved file format, meaning that the host sytem only needs to
write to a single file while recording. No wild, mad, seeking-like-crazy on a
fragmented drive to write a bunch of different files.

Later, non-realtime, after the gig is over, you re-save that interleaved data file
to one of several options, including individual WAV files.

Theoretically, modern drives and OSs can handle the multiple streams, but there
always seems to be some exception or gotcha just lurking under the surface.

As I said before, with this approach, the system doesn't even need to walk and chew
gum at the same time, just walk.

Be sure you understand the controls of the record utility. At first glance or first
use, they're a bit odd. At a casual first glance there's potentially some confusion
between file operations for the record function vs. file ops for the utility itself.

Exercise and test it a number of times before taking it out.

Good luck with it,

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Nate Najar wrote:

for those of you keeping track at home about recording my trio.... I
got it tonight.

Great!

and my RSI is acting up so the first set is too sloppy for anything
other than reference, but I'll post a few things in the next few days
when i get a chance to make a 2 mix. My acupuncturist was actually in
the audience, and during the intermission he did something to my arm
and shoulder that helped a lot!

You specifically may not be at risk, but people that are likely to get
diabetes 2 are statistically also likely to get tendonitis.

So, first off, I did a main stereo pickup with MS. such a good idea,
thanks Ty. THE hypercardioid for M and 414 for S (it's the only fig8
mic I have! I'd like to get an exceptional set of mics for MS at some
point though!). It picked up everything really well but the bass was
slightly weak and the guitar was pretty weak. I had it pretty close
in though because it's a super live room. We had a guest tonight on
many tunes- a wonderful trombonist from Toronto named Russ Little. He
was represented very naturally and evenly in the main stereo pickup.

About how it ougtha be.

I did a spot on the drums with the schoeps mk41 in ORTF. man, why
don't people record drums like that more often. what an incredible
stereo sound.

YES! - did it with a pair of MD441's way long time ago.

I had the array about cymbal height and about 40 inches
out from the bass drum. I could get by with no drum spot, but
bringing it in a bit adds definition and some dryness. of course I
panned it to more closely resemble the appearance of the drums in the
MS pair.

YES!

DPA 4061 on the bass, attached under the bridge. this is a great mic
for this application, it's never fail and requires no eq.

I'd use a KSM 141 on a stick, but that's because I have one and doesn't have
the DPA4061.

so for my classical guitar, I had the amp real low, but loud enough
for the room (and to force the band to play slightly softer). I found
a GREAT spot for the DPA 4061 mic on the guitar. in the soundhole,
but not IN the soundhole. if you keep it above the top of the guitar,
but obviously low enough under the strings to not interfere with
playing, it sounds great. and the further toward the bridge, the less
low end resonance and buildup. It's tough to get there though as the
cable isn't too rigid at all, but with some determination it can get
kind of placed. if you place it right, it's a great, natural spot,
with no need for eq. I even used it in the FOH for the sound and it
worked like a charm.

Nice.

It's a small hall- seats about a hundred. it was full. I installed a
sound system the other day- tannoy V8's, horizontally about 20 feet
apart, in yokes attached to the joists. it sounds incredibly good.
the band was slightly behind the FOH speakers. that's probably why my
guitar mic worked well for FOH.

Things get easier with smooth loudspeakers.

and/or what's a good hardware recorder that can do 8 tracks of
multitrack, stand alone for this type of application? that would be
better, but I'd prefer a rudimentary mixer for monitoring- with
headphone output, etc.... if I could do this whole thing without the
computer, that would be even better! Is there a true 8 track nagra or
sound devices unit?

I think there is a tascam thingie, alternatives include a pair of Edirols
and a HD24. Or the Joeco BBR, Joe reportedly is the guy who designed Sadie.

There's a new RME unit that does FW to the computer but also records
direct to USB media, probably a good safety. and you can run a mixer
app for FOH too. that's appealing. But I'd really love to do this
sans computer!

I agree. For some it works, many interesting comments in the thread.

N

Kind regards

Peter Larsen